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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, we are so excited before we dive into today's science.

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Speaker 1: For the Doctor's Desk. Somebody told me the other day

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Speaker 1: that they don't like the title of the Doctor's Desk

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Speaker 1: because it makes me sound pompous. It makes me sound

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Speaker 1: like I'm saying, look at what's coming from the doctor's desk,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm the professor and I'm going to profess things.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, And I'm trying to work out whether they've

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Speaker 1: got a point or whether it's actually just fun because

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Speaker 1: I'm a doctor and I'm sharing the cool stuff that anyway,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to think too much about it. That's

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Speaker 1: what tiders do and that's why I left academia. Big news,

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Speaker 1: Big news, Kylie, our daughter. Our daughter has been away

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Speaker 1: for eighteen months doing volunteer work in the UK, and

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Speaker 1: she comes home tonight to know there's normal sleeps, normal sleeves.

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Speaker 1: We will have more information about that as we celebrate

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Speaker 1: the joy and the delight of having our daughter come home,

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Speaker 1: probably over the next few episodes of the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 1: But today it is a Doctor's Desk podcast. I'm so

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Speaker 1: sorry to the person who thought it sounded like it

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Speaker 1: was too much, but we're going to keep calling it

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Speaker 1: that anyway. I don't care. I mean I do, I

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Speaker 1: actually do. I do care, but I don't care enough

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Speaker 1: to change it.

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Speaker 2: No, but it separates everything else we talk about because

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Speaker 2: this is where the research, because.

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Speaker 1: We never talk about research and science in any other episode.

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Speaker 1: You always get me in trouble for hijacking all the

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Speaker 1: episodes with research. Let's go, Oh my goodness, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have so much fun with this one. A brand new

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Speaker 1: study from Lucy Amory and Ben Levi, some scientists who

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Speaker 1: are based at Penn State University in the US. They've

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Speaker 1: done this really interesting piece of research about humor in parenting. Kylie,

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Speaker 1: does it have a role now if you were to

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Speaker 1: rate how much humor you experienced as a child growing

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Speaker 1: up in your household, Like, how funny were your parents?

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Speaker 1: I feel like you were just like one of you

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Speaker 1: were a clown balloon, just going, that's all gone, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing there, all the airs out of the balloon. No

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Speaker 1: humor here.

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Speaker 2: I think I'd put funny on my list of descriptive

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Speaker 2: words of my parents growing up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, based on my last twenty five years. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they listened to the pod. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they know the technology and know how to do it.

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Speaker 1: I would agree with you. Whereas I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a house where my dad's favorite thing to do when

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Speaker 1: he number one, he loved to sneeze and scare people.

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Speaker 1: He did these huge sneezes and he just cracked up

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Speaker 1: every time he scared the life out of people. But

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Speaker 1: he also did this witch's cackle laugh. Is that where

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Speaker 1: you get it from?

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Speaker 2: Here?

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Speaker 1: I got her off my dad, and this is what

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Speaker 1: he does. You're ready for this. I've never done this

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Speaker 1: on the pod today. This is a one and done experience.

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Speaker 1: Here we go. That's what he did, and we would

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Speaker 1: just crack up. We used to wrestle, We used to

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Speaker 1: play games. I grew up with a very very fun dad.

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Speaker 1: My mum is very serious. My mom says that I

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Speaker 1: don't have a funny bone in my body. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's because she doesn't, because I am so damn funny. Anyway, Anyway,

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Speaker 1: ben Levi and Lucy Emory, their colleagues of this study

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Speaker 1: they were looking. They basically said this despite the widespread

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Speaker 1: use of humor and social interactions, and the considerable literature

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Speaker 1: on humor in multiple fields of study, the use of

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Speaker 1: humor in parenting has received very little formal study. So

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Speaker 1: they've done a pilot study and had it published in

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Speaker 1: a journal called Plus one. And it's really really interesting.

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Speaker 1: As you compare your upbringing with mine, I think the

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Speaker 1: research rings true. They found that fifty five percent of

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Speaker 1: people who responded to their survey, there were three hundred

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Speaker 1: and twelve respondents, fifty five percent said that they were

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Speaker 1: raised by parents who used humor.

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Speaker 2: One out of two.

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Speaker 1: So the first thing that I think is, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: right half the population. We're not raised with funny parents,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the world's gone wrong. I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: that's the problem. They also found that seventy two percent

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Speaker 1: of respondents said that humor is an effective parenting tool.

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Speaker 1: So there's actually twenty eight percent of people who think

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Speaker 1: nupe no, humor does not belong in families, let's not

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Speaker 1: joke with the kids. Seventy two percent think that we should.

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Speaker 1: But here's what I found really compelling. The quality of

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Speaker 1: relationship with parents was positively associated with parental humor. In

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Speaker 1: other words, as people filled in this survey, and they

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Speaker 1: were all aged between eighteen and forty five, they rated

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Speaker 1: the quality of the relationship that they shared with their

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Speaker 1: parents as far higher when their parents were funny, and

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Speaker 1: the assessment of parental effectiveness was also positively associated with

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Speaker 1: parental humor. I know when I say sentences like that,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound fun or funny or humorous. Science has

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Speaker 1: a way of making anything fun. Like you deconstruct humor

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Speaker 1: in an academic way, it is not fun, not even

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Speaker 1: a little bit. They've truly made humor boring.

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Speaker 2: But what do they mean by humor? Because when I

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Speaker 2: think about the different types of humor that we see

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Speaker 2: in homes and families, often sarcasm is probably at the

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Speaker 2: top of the list of what most people would cons

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Speaker 2: sit a humorous Yeah, but I don't see that as

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Speaker 2: being helpful at all.

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Speaker 1: I think this is a really important question, and maybe

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Speaker 1: that also explains why why the respondents gave the answers

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Speaker 1: they did. In the article, they say one of the

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Speaker 1: strongest associations between humor and parenting is the dad joke.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about that a lot lately on the pod.

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Speaker 1: Corny pun based grown inducing humor but they say humour's

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Speaker 1: expansive repertoire may have strategic applications for positive parenting techniques,

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Speaker 1: akin to how humour has been applied successfully to various

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Speaker 1: real world challenges. Tailored improvisation games that use humor and

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Speaker 1: play based exercises have shown promise for improving the mental

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Speaker 1: health of individuals with early stage dementia and their caregivers.

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Speaker 1: And then they go on to talk about things like

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Speaker 1: improv and improving resilience and adaptive forms of humour, like

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Speaker 1: affiliative and self enhancing kinds of humor that seems to

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Speaker 1: be really really positive. Did I just make it boring again?

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Speaker 1: I was just.

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Speaker 2: About to say, you just used a lot of really

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Speaker 2: big ones.

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Speaker 1: I know. See, this is why academics shouldn't try to

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Speaker 1: analyze funniness. We should just get one. I'm friends with

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Speaker 1: a guy who won Australian Comedian of the Year about

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago. We should just get him on to

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Speaker 1: talk about why it's funny. Kylie. Here's the short version.

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Speaker 1: If people get humor wrong, and they I'm thinking of roasts. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So at the moment, there's a really big trend on

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Speaker 1: social media that you're supposed to feed your social media

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Speaker 1: feed into the AI and it will roast you. And

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Speaker 1: this comes off the back of the comedy channel doing roasts.

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Speaker 1: There was a big one about a year ago with

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Speaker 1: Tom Brady, the world's most I don't know, richest athlete ever,

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Speaker 1: and I agree with you, it's brutal. Research does show

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Speaker 1: that if we use humor in detrimental ways, it can

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Speaker 1: have consequences including damage self esteem and self worth, increase

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Speaker 1: anxiety and depression, difficulty forming healthy relationships, impaired social and

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Speaker 1: emotional development. Getting humor right really does matter. And I

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Speaker 1: just wonder, as I think about your question, whether there

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Speaker 1: are too many parents who have kind of and they

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Speaker 1: just roasted their kids, burnt their kids, And that's not funny,

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Speaker 1: that's just hurtful. It's got to be a it's got

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Speaker 1: to be a reciprocal, consensual kind of humor to be funny.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just bullying somebody.

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Speaker 2: So I guess the dad joke's a safe place to start.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, have you got another one for me? No? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no no. I don't want you to find one.

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Speaker 1: Now we're out of time. We need to move on

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Speaker 1: to the next study, all right, let's go on to

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Speaker 1: study number two.

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Speaker 2: This study looks at how moving house impacts our children.

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Speaker 1: This is a really really interesting study, massive new study

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Speaker 1: in Jamma psychiatry, using data from every single person born

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Speaker 1: in Denmark between January one of nineteen eighty two and

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Speaker 1: thirty one of two thousand and three, every single person.

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Speaker 1: They ended up with a cohort of one million, ninety

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Speaker 1: nine hundred and sixteen people, so let's call it one

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Speaker 1: point one million people. And the way it works in

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Speaker 1: Denmark there's a big registration system, the Danish Civil Registration System,

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Speaker 1: and it's updated with residential addresses within five days of moving,

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Speaker 1: which means that the researchers can track what's happening in

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Speaker 1: terms of location and moves. They also looked at diagnosis

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Speaker 1: of depression that were entered into various databases around the place,

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Speaker 1: and essentially what they found, Kylie were two major things.

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Speaker 1: One of them is very hard to talk about and frankly,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it's helpful to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: so I'm I'm going to skim across the top of it.

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Speaker 1: The second thing, though, we can really dive into finding

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Speaker 1: Number one. The research has found that people living in

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Speaker 1: deprived areas during childhood, so we're talking about financial deprivation.

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Speaker 1: Low socioeconomic status areas had an increased risk of depression

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Speaker 1: across the lifespan. Didn't really matter how long they were there.

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Speaker 1: If you lived in those areas, it wasn't really great.

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Speaker 1: There was a reduced risk if those people were able

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Speaker 1: to move into better neighborhoods. This is one of the

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Speaker 1: great income inequality challenges that we have in our society.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I want to emphasize, though, because talking

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Speaker 1: about that doesn't help anyone who's feeling stuck. There is

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Speaker 1: some good news that comes with it, and it's this

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Speaker 1: moving during childhood. Regardless of what your neighborhood is, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a rich neighborhood or a poor neighborhood, moving during

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Speaker 1: childhood was associated with significantly higher rates of depression in

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Speaker 1: adulthood compared with not moving.

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Speaker 2: In other words, children who live in one family home,

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Speaker 2: stable environment, stable communities do better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much. Yet, moving frequently was found

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Speaker 1: to be really influential on mental health. If a child

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Speaker 1: moved more than twice between the ages of ten and fifteen,

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Speaker 1: they had one point six times greater risk of developing

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Speaker 1: depression than those who remain in the same place, even

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Speaker 1: if that place was a what the researchers are calling

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Speaker 1: a deprived area, that is a low socio economic status area.

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Speaker 1: This one really hurts me as a dad because of

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Speaker 1: the decisions we've made across the years to relocate our

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Speaker 1: family multiple times. We've had several interstate moves. And I know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you talk to so many people who feel,

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Speaker 1: either for work or for family commitments, they feel like

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Speaker 1: they either want to or are compelled to move, and

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Speaker 1: it really puts the guilts on I know that. But

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Speaker 1: I guess the reason that we wanted to share that

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Speaker 1: is because this research just adds to an increasing amount

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Speaker 1: of data that points out that avoiding moving during childhood

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Speaker 1: is a protective measure against developing depression later in life.

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Speaker 1: The practicalities of adhering to that obviously very widely. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: people have choice, often they don't. I think of the

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Speaker 1: Bluey episode, the first thirty minute episode of Blue that

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Speaker 1: came out at the start of the year, and Bandit

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Speaker 1: decides we're not taking the job, we're not moving, We're

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Speaker 1: staying put. Because of the anxiety that was caused in

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Speaker 1: the family. Why do we have to sell our house.

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Speaker 1: We've been through this Bluey Dad's got a new job

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Speaker 1: in another city, but what's wrong with this city? I

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Speaker 1: wish the bandit had moved the family, because in real life,

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Speaker 1: that's what happens, and we could have seen bandits parenting

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Speaker 1: skills on display through a really hard time. But I

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Speaker 1: also am really glad that they didn't because from a

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Speaker 1: statistical point of view, it seems like the kids are

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Speaker 1: going to be better off if you can stay put.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that we heard time and time

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Speaker 2: again with each of our moves from well meaning friends

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Speaker 2: and family was kids are resilient. They'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's going to be a great experience for them.

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Speaker 2: But I look at the challenge that our children have

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Speaker 2: had as they've had to assimilate into new communities, news, school, cohorts.

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Speaker 2: It's been hard. Yeah, it's been really, really hard, and

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Speaker 2: they need to cling to old relationships as they have

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Speaker 2: navigated new ones. Has been such an integral part of

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Speaker 2: their capacity to thrive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in your environments, you think about it, staying in

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Speaker 1: one place during childhood means number one, you've got well, ideally,

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Speaker 1: you've got family stability and number two, you've got strong

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Speaker 1: social connections to a particular neighborhood. You've got your schools,

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Speaker 1: or your sports clubs, or your religious spaces. You've got

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Speaker 1: that feeling of belonging, that feeling of connection. It just

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Speaker 1: makes such a difference. Now now, I just want to

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Speaker 1: emphasize this in case the guilts are really piling up

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Speaker 1: for people, including you and I. The research team were

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Speaker 1: really really clear that there are so many other determinants

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Speaker 1: of mental ill health. It's really really complex, and it's

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Speaker 1: also critical to highlight that this is an association. It's

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Speaker 1: not saying moving causes depression. It's saying that there's an

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Speaker 1: association there's a potential increased risk for a percentage of

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Speaker 1: the population. The study only had access to participants with

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Speaker 1: severe cases of depression, those who had been diagnosed, and

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Speaker 1: obviously they can't capture the complexity of different living situations

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Speaker 1: like kids that are living in multiple homes and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: I was about to say, there is so much more

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Speaker 2: to take into account when you look at a child's

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Speaker 2: life and the experiences that they have.

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Speaker 1: This is just one of it is. So I guess

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Speaker 1: for me, the take home message of this study is

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Speaker 1: we know, we've got plenty of evidence globally now that

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Speaker 1: if kid can be raised in more affluent neighborhoods, they

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Speaker 1: do tend to have slightly better outcomes. But a bigger

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Speaker 1: predictor of mental health challenges later in life is a

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Speaker 1: number of moves kids have during their childhood. If kids

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Speaker 1: can stay put, that seems to be ideal. However, if

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Speaker 1: they are going to be moving, I'd say the other

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Speaker 1: critical thing is to smooth out the transitions. Make sure

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Speaker 1: that you do everything that you can to soften the

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Speaker 1: impact of that uprooting experience so that you can potentially

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Speaker 1: protect their mental health as they move forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was all little bit heavy.

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Speaker 1: We should have finished with the fun. We should have

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Speaker 1: finished with the humor. Is that what you're saying, Well,

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Speaker 1: I've got a joke here. Oh okay, good, let's lighten

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Speaker 1: the load.

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Speaker 2: What do you call the security guards from Samsung?

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Speaker 1: Security guards from Samsung? Hashtag not sponsored? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm an iPhone user, I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: Guardians of the Galaxy.

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Speaker 1: Oh, because that's a Samsung Galaxy. Let's stick with the science.

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Speaker 1: If thanks for trying. This is what happens when you're

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Speaker 1: raising a home with no humor. This is what happened,

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Speaker 1: you're saying that. The Happy Families podcast is produced by

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Speaker 1: Justin Rauwlan from Bridge Media. If you would like more

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Speaker 1: ways to make your family more fun and more happy,

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Speaker 1: and more ways to understand more parenting science, jump onto

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Speaker 1: our newsletter Families dot com dot au. Subscribe today.

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Speaker 2: What's the difference between a piano, a tuna, and a

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Speaker 2: pot of glue?

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Speaker 1: You know the podcast, so don't you?

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 2: You can tune a piano, but you can't piano with tuna.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's funny. What about the pot of glue?

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Speaker 2: I knew you'd get stuck on that, all right?

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Speaker 1: You got me, You got me.