WEBVTT - The Mum/Daughter Dilemma ❤️‍🩹

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't heard talk to me about this hair, who

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<v Speaker 1>is flex and rooms? It is flexing rooms on cater

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<v Speaker 1>We don't often talk about like dynamics between parents and children,

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<v Speaker 1>not because there isn't heaps of content, but I guess

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<v Speaker 1>what better time than the present?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Recently The New Yorker came out with this article entitled

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<v Speaker 1>do I still have to be a good daughter? Even

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<v Speaker 1>though my mom is selfish? And I said, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a controversial headline, and basically what this section of the

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<v Speaker 1>site is is a classic advice column. You ask a question,

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<v Speaker 1>post the specific context, and then the person the author

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<v Speaker 1>sorry will respond. And I think this is very controversial,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's some good stuff in here. And I read

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in a situation with my mom who's in her

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<v Speaker 1>late seventies. I'm in a situationship with my mum, who's

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<v Speaker 1>in her late seventies, and I'd appreciate your help. We

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<v Speaker 1>used to be semi close, but since I've had kids,

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<v Speaker 1>she is checked out of being a person I can

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<v Speaker 1>count on. She's barely able to be a grandmother and

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<v Speaker 1>does not make an effort to get to know my kids.

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<v Speaker 1>She seems very selfish.

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<v Speaker 2>She's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe she was always like this, and I've never noticed

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<v Speaker 1>until I became a mum. She's not an addict or abusive,

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<v Speaker 1>just self centered and immature. She never asks me about myself,

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<v Speaker 1>and when I do talk about myself, she mostly reacts

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<v Speaker 1>by being anxious or confused. I don't know how she

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<v Speaker 1>functions in the world, but I'm done making an effort

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<v Speaker 1>to spend time with her only to be disappointed. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't see why I should call her every week and

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<v Speaker 1>fly across and fly across the country to visit her

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<v Speaker 1>if our relationship is going to be totally one sided.

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<v Speaker 1>My brother, however, disagrees with me and thinks I'm being

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<v Speaker 1>too hard on her. He wants the family to all

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<v Speaker 1>get along together and doesn't see my side of things.

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<v Speaker 1>Do I have a duty to be a good daughter

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<v Speaker 1>or can I follow my gut? This is from c Brooklyn. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>The advice given, I think is super interesting, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>wondering if we should read out this advice on and

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<v Speaker 1>talk about our feelings on the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a fantastic choice.

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<v Speaker 1>We can at least read a little bit, this author says.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is a New York magazine author who will

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<v Speaker 1>not be named because they haven't left their name. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I tend to think about our relationship with our parents

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<v Speaker 1>as having two phases, the one you have with them

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<v Speaker 1>when they are alive and the one you have with

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<v Speaker 1>them when they're dead. My god, what anything can happen

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<v Speaker 1>While they're alive. You can say things that will surprise

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<v Speaker 1>them and vice versa. Incredible the way we're able to

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<v Speaker 1>keep surprising each other even after we've written each other off.

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<v Speaker 1>When they're dead, all you can do is live with

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<v Speaker 1>what you did and didn't continue this advice that we

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<v Speaker 1>did not write from the New York magazine. This person says,

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about relationships this way is somewhat at odds with

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<v Speaker 1>the current tendency to take an actuarial approach to intimacy. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we think in terms of what we give and what

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<v Speaker 1>we're owed. We keep a running tally on all the

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<v Speaker 1>people we care about. We're told that doing this is

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<v Speaker 1>important for maintaining fairness, and above all, for pushing back

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<v Speaker 1>against old, hierarchical and patriarchal forms of relations in which

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<v Speaker 1>women are duty bound to serve men and care for everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>both young and old. I think a lot of us

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<v Speaker 1>believe that if we don't act as our own INTI ooh.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of us believe that if we

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<v Speaker 1>don't act as our own intimacy accountants, we'll be taken

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<v Speaker 1>advantage of harm intimacy accountants I speak. This habit of

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<v Speaker 1>mind is bolstered by the pop cultural interest in pointing

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<v Speaker 1>out the narcissists and gas lighters. Even in our midst

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<v Speaker 1>this became important, even urgent, during the height of Me Too.

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<v Speaker 1>But like any important social change, calling out bad behavior

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<v Speaker 1>has become a packaged good on reality TV. It's entertaining

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<v Speaker 1>to watch housewives do it, but do we really want

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<v Speaker 1>to invite that approach into our own interpersonal relationships and families.

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<v Speaker 1>The alternative to actuarial intimacy is not selflessness or Confucian

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<v Speaker 1>subservience to our elders. You can be self respecting and

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<v Speaker 1>self determined while also treating your flawed and disappointing family

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<v Speaker 1>with compassion and even love. But this demands that you

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<v Speaker 1>ask yourself what is the purpose of family relationships anyway?

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<v Speaker 1>If it's not scorekeeping and making sure everyone is getting

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<v Speaker 1>what they deserve, and it's not duty and service, then

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<v Speaker 1>what's left. I don't know enough about your mother to

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<v Speaker 1>tell you what your relationship with her might offer you,

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<v Speaker 1>but you do say she is an abusive. Family estrangement

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<v Speaker 1>is no joke, and people tend to avoid it unless

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<v Speaker 1>it's a matter of survival. This doesn't seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>the case. It's easy to forget that, in the midst

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<v Speaker 1>of coping with our family members' flaws, that it's rare

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<v Speaker 1>and important to be known by someone for your whole life.

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<v Speaker 1>I sometimes wonder if all of our lifelong journeys of

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<v Speaker 1>entrepreneurial self improvement are making it too easy to lose

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<v Speaker 1>sight of the pleasure of being intensively known by someone.

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<v Speaker 1>Our culture's emphasis on self improvement, whether it's through wellness

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<v Speaker 1>or professional accomplishment or whatever, suggests that our old selves

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<v Speaker 1>weren't worth knowing anyway. We're looking for the people who

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<v Speaker 1>will celebrate our future selves and our past selves. We

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<v Speaker 1>move through life banishing the past in a flurry of

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<v Speaker 1>insistence that we have no regrets. Mindlessly projecting ourselves into

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<v Speaker 1>the future is a symptom of our human lives beginning

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<v Speaker 1>to imitate the spirit of capitalist enterprises. Growth or death.

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<v Speaker 2>Damn, I don't know it.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe I'm wrong to once again make neoliberalism into my

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<v Speaker 1>whipping boy. But this approach to life feels low key impoverished,

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<v Speaker 1>So you people are povo. Corporations don't have regrets, but

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<v Speaker 1>people do, which brings me back to the two phases

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<v Speaker 1>of relationships with our parents. Your mum knows things about

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<v Speaker 1>you that no one else will ever know, and when

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<v Speaker 1>she dies, that ephemeral archive of knowledge about you will vanish.

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<v Speaker 1>Your brother is right. Having a living mum, no matter

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<v Speaker 1>how self centered, is important, not because she'll make your

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<v Speaker 1>life better or because she'll make your children happy, simply

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<v Speaker 1>because she exists alongside you and shares your history. It

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<v Speaker 1>be a tragedy for you to realize that only after

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<v Speaker 1>she's gone give her a call. She'll disappoint you, and

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<v Speaker 1>you'll be angry and it won't feel triumphant. But this

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<v Speaker 1>is your life as it is, and coming to terms

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<v Speaker 1>with it, rather than leaving it behind you in a huff,

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<v Speaker 1>is your challenge as a human adult whoa there's not

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<v Speaker 1>even anything to say. I don't think I want to

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<v Speaker 1>add anything else to that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes sense, and as someone who has a great

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with their mum, I can't weigh in on these

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<v Speaker 1>things I observe my friends who have really strained relationships

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<v Speaker 1>with their parents, like non existent relationships, abusive relationships, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I could not even fathom.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, at yourself, lucky. I read a book if you

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<v Speaker 2>like relate to this. I've been reading a book called

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<v Speaker 2>Sorrow and Bliss. Have you heard of that?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a fiction book.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm nearly at the end, but not yet. And she

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<v Speaker 2>is an interesting dynamic with her mum.

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<v Speaker 1>That I think would be interesting what way.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to give the book away, but her

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<v Speaker 2>mum is like very unpredictable and not doesn't seem to

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<v Speaker 2>have this woman's best interest in her heart. But I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not sure how it ends, so maybe they repair it.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, that's finally, don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, no joke. I should talk about the more often. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess people don't want to talk about family dynamics

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<v Speaker 1>because it implicates you too much, because you've only ever

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<v Speaker 1>had one family, so whatever you perceive to be your

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<v Speaker 1>argument just calls you out. Whereas dating you can kind

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<v Speaker 1>of hide between the experience of other people and be like,

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard that dating is like this. Exactly when you

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<v Speaker 1>say mothers, you mean your mum.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's real life and hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, best of luck, miss you already.

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<v Speaker 2>You've been listening to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>For more, Tune Indicator on DAB or stream it on

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