Speaker 1: I haven't heard talk to me about this hair, who
Speaker 1: is flex and rooms? It is flexing rooms on cater
Speaker 1: We don't often talk about like dynamics between parents and children,
Speaker 1: not because there isn't heaps of content, but I guess
Speaker 1: what better time than the present?
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Recently The New Yorker came out with this article entitled
Speaker 1: do I still have to be a good daughter? Even
Speaker 1: though my mom is selfish? And I said, this is
Speaker 1: a controversial headline, and basically what this section of the
Speaker 1: site is is a classic advice column. You ask a question,
Speaker 1: post the specific context, and then the person the author
Speaker 1: sorry will respond. And I think this is very controversial,
Speaker 1: and there's some good stuff in here. And I read
Speaker 1: I'm in a situation with my mom who's in her
Speaker 1: late seventies. I'm in a situationship with my mum, who's
Speaker 1: in her late seventies, and I'd appreciate your help. We
Speaker 1: used to be semi close, but since I've had kids,
Speaker 1: she is checked out of being a person I can
Speaker 1: count on. She's barely able to be a grandmother and
Speaker 1: does not make an effort to get to know my kids.
Speaker 1: She seems very selfish.
Speaker 2: She's crazy.
Speaker 1: Maybe she was always like this, and I've never noticed
Speaker 1: until I became a mum. She's not an addict or abusive,
Speaker 1: just self centered and immature. She never asks me about myself,
Speaker 1: and when I do talk about myself, she mostly reacts
Speaker 1: by being anxious or confused. I don't know how she
Speaker 1: functions in the world, but I'm done making an effort
Speaker 1: to spend time with her only to be disappointed. I
Speaker 1: don't see why I should call her every week and
Speaker 1: fly across and fly across the country to visit her
Speaker 1: if our relationship is going to be totally one sided.
Speaker 1: My brother, however, disagrees with me and thinks I'm being
Speaker 1: too hard on her. He wants the family to all
Speaker 1: get along together and doesn't see my side of things.
Speaker 1: Do I have a duty to be a good daughter
Speaker 1: or can I follow my gut? This is from c Brooklyn. Now.
Speaker 1: The advice given, I think is super interesting, and I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if we should read out this advice on and
Speaker 1: talk about our feelings on the podcast.
Speaker 2: I think that's a fantastic choice.
Speaker 1: We can at least read a little bit, this author says.
Speaker 1: And this is a New York magazine author who will
Speaker 1: not be named because they haven't left their name. Yes,
Speaker 1: I tend to think about our relationship with our parents
Speaker 1: as having two phases, the one you have with them
Speaker 1: when they are alive and the one you have with
Speaker 1: them when they're dead. My god, what anything can happen
Speaker 1: While they're alive. You can say things that will surprise
Speaker 1: them and vice versa. Incredible the way we're able to
Speaker 1: keep surprising each other even after we've written each other off.
Speaker 1: When they're dead, all you can do is live with
Speaker 1: what you did and didn't continue this advice that we
Speaker 1: did not write from the New York magazine. This person says,
Speaker 1: thinking about relationships this way is somewhat at odds with
Speaker 1: the current tendency to take an actuarial approach to intimacy. Okay,
Speaker 1: we think in terms of what we give and what
Speaker 1: we're owed. We keep a running tally on all the
Speaker 1: people we care about. We're told that doing this is
Speaker 1: important for maintaining fairness, and above all, for pushing back
Speaker 1: against old, hierarchical and patriarchal forms of relations in which
Speaker 1: women are duty bound to serve men and care for everyone,
Speaker 1: both young and old. I think a lot of us
Speaker 1: believe that if we don't act as our own INTI ooh.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us believe that if we
Speaker 1: don't act as our own intimacy accountants, we'll be taken
Speaker 1: advantage of harm intimacy accountants I speak. This habit of
Speaker 1: mind is bolstered by the pop cultural interest in pointing
Speaker 1: out the narcissists and gas lighters. Even in our midst
Speaker 1: this became important, even urgent, during the height of Me Too.
Speaker 1: But like any important social change, calling out bad behavior
Speaker 1: has become a packaged good on reality TV. It's entertaining
Speaker 1: to watch housewives do it, but do we really want
Speaker 1: to invite that approach into our own interpersonal relationships and families.
Speaker 1: The alternative to actuarial intimacy is not selflessness or Confucian
Speaker 1: subservience to our elders. You can be self respecting and
Speaker 1: self determined while also treating your flawed and disappointing family
Speaker 1: with compassion and even love. But this demands that you
Speaker 1: ask yourself what is the purpose of family relationships anyway?
Speaker 1: If it's not scorekeeping and making sure everyone is getting
Speaker 1: what they deserve, and it's not duty and service, then
Speaker 1: what's left. I don't know enough about your mother to
Speaker 1: tell you what your relationship with her might offer you,
Speaker 1: but you do say she is an abusive. Family estrangement
Speaker 1: is no joke, and people tend to avoid it unless
Speaker 1: it's a matter of survival. This doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: the case. It's easy to forget that, in the midst
Speaker 1: of coping with our family members' flaws, that it's rare
Speaker 1: and important to be known by someone for your whole life.
Speaker 1: I sometimes wonder if all of our lifelong journeys of
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial self improvement are making it too easy to lose
Speaker 1: sight of the pleasure of being intensively known by someone.
Speaker 1: Our culture's emphasis on self improvement, whether it's through wellness
Speaker 1: or professional accomplishment or whatever, suggests that our old selves
Speaker 1: weren't worth knowing anyway. We're looking for the people who
Speaker 1: will celebrate our future selves and our past selves. We
Speaker 1: move through life banishing the past in a flurry of
Speaker 1: insistence that we have no regrets. Mindlessly projecting ourselves into
Speaker 1: the future is a symptom of our human lives beginning
Speaker 1: to imitate the spirit of capitalist enterprises. Growth or death.
Speaker 2: Damn, I don't know it.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong to once again make neoliberalism into my
Speaker 1: whipping boy. But this approach to life feels low key impoverished,
Speaker 1: So you people are povo. Corporations don't have regrets, but
Speaker 1: people do, which brings me back to the two phases
Speaker 1: of relationships with our parents. Your mum knows things about
Speaker 1: you that no one else will ever know, and when
Speaker 1: she dies, that ephemeral archive of knowledge about you will vanish.
Speaker 1: Your brother is right. Having a living mum, no matter
Speaker 1: how self centered, is important, not because she'll make your
Speaker 1: life better or because she'll make your children happy, simply
Speaker 1: because she exists alongside you and shares your history. It
Speaker 1: be a tragedy for you to realize that only after
Speaker 1: she's gone give her a call. She'll disappoint you, and
Speaker 1: you'll be angry and it won't feel triumphant. But this
Speaker 1: is your life as it is, and coming to terms
Speaker 1: with it, rather than leaving it behind you in a huff,
Speaker 1: is your challenge as a human adult whoa there's not
Speaker 1: even anything to say. I don't think I want to
Speaker 1: add anything else to that.
Speaker 2: I mean, it makes sense.
Speaker 1: It makes sense, and as someone who has a great
Speaker 1: relationship with their mum, I can't weigh in on these
Speaker 1: things I observe my friends who have really strained relationships
Speaker 1: with their parents, like non existent relationships, abusive relationships, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I could not even fathom.
Speaker 2: Okay, at yourself, lucky. I read a book if you
Speaker 2: like relate to this. I've been reading a book called
Speaker 2: Sorrow and Bliss. Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1: It's a fiction book.
Speaker 2: I'm nearly at the end, but not yet. And she
Speaker 2: is an interesting dynamic with her mum.
Speaker 1: That I think would be interesting what way.
Speaker 2: I don't want to give the book away, but her
Speaker 2: mum is like very unpredictable and not doesn't seem to
Speaker 2: have this woman's best interest in her heart. But I'm
Speaker 2: not sure how it ends, so maybe they repair it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's finally, don't.
Speaker 1: Know, no joke. I should talk about the more often. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess people don't want to talk about family dynamics
Speaker 1: because it implicates you too much, because you've only ever
Speaker 1: had one family, so whatever you perceive to be your
Speaker 1: argument just calls you out. Whereas dating you can kind
Speaker 1: of hide between the experience of other people and be like,
Speaker 1: I've heard that dating is like this. Exactly when you
Speaker 1: say mothers, you mean your mum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's real life and hard.
Speaker 1: Well, best of luck, miss you already.
Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast.
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