Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily Art.
Speaker 2: This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ours. It's Monday,
Speaker 3: the seventh of July. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fit Simon's.
Speaker 3: We are bringing you something a little bit different to
Speaker 3: start your week today. It's an interview with Australia's head
Speaker 3: of state. Now you would be forgiven for thinking we
Speaker 3: might be talking about the Prime Minister, but we are not.
Speaker 2: We are actually talking about the Governor General. Sam Austin
Speaker 2: was appointed to the role just over a year ago
Speaker 2: and as Governor General, she has a variety of constitutional
Speaker 2: and ceremonial responsibilities and she acts as the King's representative
Speaker 2: in Australia. But what does any of that really mean?
Speaker 2: And how does it work? To unpack these questions and more, Emma,
Speaker 2: you sat down with Sam Muston to find out all
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: I sure did. Here is my chat with none other
Speaker 3: than the Governor General. Governor General Sam Mouston. Welcome to
Speaker 3: the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks Simmah. It's great to be here.
Speaker 3: We are very excited to be talking with you today.
Speaker 3: And we'll start with a really simple bit broad one.
Speaker 3: I suppose what is the role of the Governor General?
Speaker 3: What do you do?
Speaker 1: Well? Thank you for asking that question. A lot of
Speaker 1: people meet me in many different walks of life now
Speaker 1: and they say, it's nice to see, but who are
Speaker 1: you and what do you do? So I like to
Speaker 1: think of the Governor General having four c's that define
Speaker 1: the ambit of the role. And it's really simple. I
Speaker 1: have constitutional roles, I have ceremonial functions, community obligations and
Speaker 1: community interaction. And I'm Commander in Chief of the Australian
Speaker 1: Defense Force. How I came to be here and what
Speaker 1: a Governor General is is all a function of our
Speaker 1: wonderful democracy. We have a constitution that governs how our
Speaker 1: parliamentary and operate. So I'm effectively a part of the parliament.
Speaker 1: I am appointed by the monarch, King Child, but I
Speaker 1: am chosen by the Australian Prime Minister, as all Australian
Speaker 1: Governor's General have been before. And then I carry all
Speaker 1: of the constitutional functions that are held by the head
Speaker 1: of state, who is the King, and so I'm not
Speaker 1: the Australian head of state. I represent the Australian head
Speaker 1: of state. And an important feature that many people miss
Speaker 1: is that the King would never contact an Australian Governor
Speaker 1: General to suggest how we should do anything or offer
Speaker 1: advice or direction, and a governor General would never contact
Speaker 1: the Palace to ask for advice. I take my advice
Speaker 1: and counsel from the Prime Minister, the Cabinet, and I
Speaker 1: work with the government and the Parliament, and so we
Speaker 1: have a historical connection to the monarch, but that has
Speaker 1: no bearing on the way in which I conduct myself
Speaker 1: in the role.
Speaker 3: It sounds like a pretty unique job. How do you
Speaker 3: know you're doing a good job? And if it's not Charles,
Speaker 3: who is your boss?
Speaker 1: That's such a good question. I've been appointed by someone who,
Speaker 1: under the Constitution is the head of state, and theoretically,
Speaker 1: I guess you could say that would make him my boss.
Speaker 1: But in the way I think of the Australian public
Speaker 1: that all Australians are my boss, and so how do
Speaker 1: I know how I'm doing a good job. One will
Speaker 1: be that more Australians understand a why we have a
Speaker 1: Governor General and what the purpose of the role is,
Speaker 1: and b could actually describe how our constitutional system operates,
Speaker 1: and we'll be able to tell you why our democracy
Speaker 1: works and at least give you the basics of our civics.
Speaker 1: If I could judge over the next few years or
Speaker 1: see that more Australians were interested in how our democracy
Speaker 1: actually works and showed up as active, curious, animated citizens,
Speaker 1: then I think I'm doing a very good job on
Speaker 1: that part of the role. More generally, I have to
Speaker 1: do a good role for Australians in showing up and
Speaker 1: representing the best of Australian values when it comes to
Speaker 1: the ceremonial parts of my job, turning up in community
Speaker 1: all around the country to listen to what it is
Speaker 1: that Australians can tell someone who has no part politics
Speaker 1: but could talk to government about things that I get
Speaker 1: to see from my angle that maybe others in the
Speaker 1: system don't.
Speaker 3: I want to speak a little more about the constitutional
Speaker 3: and legislative responsibilities of your role. Firstly, can you tell
Speaker 3: us a little bit about royal assent how that all works.
Speaker 1: Yes, So, for any legislation that he is raised in
Speaker 1: the Parliament and has gone through both houses of the Parliament,
Speaker 1: that is put into the bill form, it's signed by
Speaker 1: the Clerk of the Senate and then is sent to
Speaker 1: me to give the royal assent. So I'm always very
Speaker 1: conscious that when I open those bills and as I'm signing,
Speaker 1: I always think about the fact that in this moment,
Speaker 1: in giving that assent, I'm giving effect to the will
Speaker 1: of the Australian people, and this bill now becomes the law.
Speaker 1: I can't read the bill and say, actually, I have
Speaker 1: some questions or I'd like to debate the aspects of this.
Speaker 1: It's my job to fulfill the ultimate final step of
Speaker 1: the people's elected representatives pass laws that then need the
Speaker 1: assent under the Constitution.
Speaker 3: What happens when or if legislation comes across your desk
Speaker 3: that does conflict with your values. You have, throughout your
Speaker 3: career in the private sector championed the cause of various
Speaker 3: communities of social justice issues, So how do you reconcile
Speaker 3: that part of yourself with this job.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have accepted the job if I didn't understand
Speaker 1: the very very specific obligations. When I was sworn in
Speaker 1: as Australia's Governor General, I swore an oath to the
Speaker 1: King and I saw an oath to the Australian people
Speaker 1: about how I would conduct myself in the role. And
Speaker 1: that is with total impartiality and no politics. No governor
Speaker 1: General would ever ever tamper with a constitutional responsibility that
Speaker 1: is so clear. And so I'm in that unique position
Speaker 1: where I have no politics, I have no policies, I
Speaker 1: have no money to administer. I represent ultimately what with
Speaker 1: the will of all Australian people when they vote. All
Speaker 1: I do was give effect to things that Australia what
Speaker 1: to have happened. And my personal views really are not
Speaker 1: to say relevant, they're completely inappropriate when it comes to
Speaker 1: the administration of our government.
Speaker 3: So in the context of government, you are the representative
Speaker 3: of the constitution. You're kind of the expert of all
Speaker 3: things constitutional, and it's your job to uphold every part
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 1: So the Crown's powers are dealt within the Constitution and
Speaker 1: the power of the Governor General to represent the head
Speaker 1: of state. Given all of that, some would say, well
Speaker 1: the King must call occasionally and say I think you
Speaker 1: could do it this way, or I've noticed this is
Speaker 1: happening in your constitution. He would never do that, and
Speaker 1: I would never call his office to say I'm looking
Speaker 1: for guidance. The person I would speak to if I
Speaker 1: had if I wanted to discuss things would be the
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, a senior cabinet minister, or my staff the
Speaker 1: office of the Official Secretary. I think it was almost
Speaker 1: like an entirely hermetically sealed Australian way of operating. But
Speaker 1: we draw my power from the head of Stafe in
Speaker 1: the Constitution, the King.
Speaker 3: How would you answer a question from someone who might ask, well,
Speaker 3: what's the point? Why does that matter for the legislative process.
Speaker 1: What we have? I think in this country it's a
Speaker 1: story that starts with sixty five thousand years of attachment
Speaker 1: to this continent and first Nations law, language, culture, eldership
Speaker 1: always offered generously to those who have come subsequently, and
Speaker 1: we come through fifty or sixty years of the most
Speaker 1: remarkable multiculturalism and arrival of over eight million people to
Speaker 1: this country who bring a promise when they become Australian
Speaker 1: citizens to give effect to the laws of this country
Speaker 1: and we give their allegiance to Australia and Australians. And
Speaker 1: if you put those things together and you ask what's
Speaker 1: holding the whole thing together so that we can continue
Speaker 1: to grow and be dynamic, I think it's the fact
Speaker 1: that we have this solid, solid democracy with a Westminster
Speaker 1: system that's linked to the crown in a way that
Speaker 1: gives stability and continuity, but does not determine how we
Speaker 1: deal with that in this country. Our constitution at the
Speaker 1: time a federation was drafted to give the power to
Speaker 1: the people to always amend it should a government and
Speaker 1: opposition of a day. Since that the Australian public has
Speaker 1: an issue they would like to be asked about that
Speaker 1: they could then vote on, and we've had many of those,
Speaker 1: most do not succeed. The problem isn't with the crown.
Speaker 1: It's that we've become a very complacent country with a
Speaker 1: lack of attention to detail on civics. So when questions
Speaker 1: are asked of us as a nation, if you don't
Speaker 1: know that we have a constitution, if you don't know
Speaker 1: the role of the Governor General and it's relationship with
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister and the Parliament, and you're not encouraged
Speaker 1: to have a civics view and think about yourself as
Speaker 1: a citizen with a sense of agency, then why would
Speaker 1: you show up and actually do the work to change
Speaker 1: the constitution. So I see the problem not being in
Speaker 1: our constitutional framework. The problem was in our lack of
Speaker 1: understanding of the basic civics that give us the power
Speaker 1: to exercise that right and to change things should the
Speaker 1: country want to.
Speaker 3: What you speak to there is so important to what
Speaker 3: we're trying to do here on a much smaller scale
Speaker 3: with what the daily olds means.
Speaker 1: When I say the reason I'm so delighted to chat
Speaker 1: with you, Emma and for your audience is that you're
Speaker 1: not doing a little thing. What you're involved in is
Speaker 1: what I think is fundamental to our success as a nation,
Speaker 1: because I get this incredible kaleidoscopic view of the country
Speaker 1: and then I get to see it at fine grain
Speaker 1: when I go and visit communities and talk to people,
Speaker 1: and I see the problem of the CIVICX question. And
Speaker 1: so what you're doing in unpacking it and giving people
Speaker 1: a sense of their own agency is really important. Thank you,
Speaker 1: because you're dispelling a whole lot of misunderstanding, but you're
Speaker 1: pushing up against misinformation and disinformation on this front.
Speaker 3: I'm interested in unpacking those misconceptions around your relationship with
Speaker 3: the royal family, specifically, acting for the monarch is that
Speaker 3: different to acting for the royal family. I think a
Speaker 3: lot of people do imagine that you might be emailing
Speaker 3: each other or sending off a WhatsApp message here and there.
Speaker 1: So and I like the way that you made the
Speaker 1: distinction between the Crown and Royalty. I exercised the powers
Speaker 1: of the Crown through the Constitution in Australia as an
Speaker 1: Australian chosen by an Australian. I have a relationship with
Speaker 1: His Majesty as he appointed me. I went to visit
Speaker 1: him in Buckingham Palace in the months before I was appointed,
Speaker 1: and we sat to get to know one another. We
Speaker 1: had just under an hour together. He didn't tell me
Speaker 1: how to do my job, but he asked me how
Speaker 1: Australia was going. What was I saying, what was almost
Speaker 1: proud of is Australian. He asked me about my daughter
Speaker 1: and how she was going. It was both very important
Speaker 1: and also very just person to person getting to know someone.
Speaker 1: I said, would you like me to occasionally write to
Speaker 1: you just to let you know things that are happening
Speaker 1: in Australia, except that would be very good, and I
Speaker 1: will occasionally write to you to let you know what's
Speaker 1: happening here. When he came to Australia with Her Majesty
Speaker 1: in October last year, and I hosted a royal visit.
Speaker 1: Australians have an affinity and I think some affection for
Speaker 1: the royal family, and a royal visit is always generally
Speaker 1: well received. Those that are not happy make that known
Speaker 1: and either ignore the whole thing or protest, and that's
Speaker 1: one of the great things about our democracy that that
Speaker 1: can happen. Of course, whilst he was here, he was
Speaker 1: the head of state, and so I moved out of
Speaker 1: Admiralty House while he and the Queen stayed there, because
Speaker 1: that's the place where the Governor General or the head
Speaker 1: of State will stay and it would be not appropriate
Speaker 1: for me as just to be in the house chatting.
Speaker 3: And because he's sharing Netflix login, that's.
Speaker 1: Actually you might share a log in, but not share
Speaker 1: a kind of conversation on a difficult constitutional issue I
Speaker 1: might have in the back of my mind or a
Speaker 1: thing that's facing Australia that I think he should guide
Speaker 1: me on. That separation's really important. Does a deep respect
Speaker 1: for one another. There's a deep understanding of what each
Speaker 1: other's roles are. And then he was really intrigued and
Speaker 1: interested in the successful parts of the country that we
Speaker 1: were showing him and letting people come and tell him
Speaker 1: about as part of the story of how Australia's going.
Speaker 3: How do you balance representing the crown and representing modern Australia,
Speaker 3: modern Australian values. What does that balance look like?
Speaker 1: When the Prime Minister said he wanted me to be
Speaker 1: a modern, visible and optimistic Governor General. In accepting the role,
Speaker 1: I had to think, what does modernity for the Australian
Speaker 1: Governor General actually mean? How do I show that? And
Speaker 1: in part that's where I came to the view that
Speaker 1: I would commit myself to care, kindness and respect as
Speaker 1: the centerpiece of how I would do the job. What
Speaker 1: is care in a modern, successful, complex society? How do
Speaker 1: you show that? And I'm taking my lead now from
Speaker 1: Australians wherever I go, and I ask them what does
Speaker 1: care mean for you? Does it show up physically in
Speaker 1: the middle of a terrible natural disaster? Or is it
Speaker 1: the way we treat each other when someone is doing
Speaker 1: it tough? Or do we do it through our mental
Speaker 1: health system? Do we do it by not excluding The
Speaker 1: great opportunity and gift I've been given in this role
Speaker 1: is to show, in representing the head of state that
Speaker 1: everyone can belong in this country. And I honestly am
Speaker 1: I am overwhelmed with people's level of enthusiasm and interest
Speaker 1: when they see that someone in a high public office
Speaker 1: is happy to ask those questions to say, is that
Speaker 1: actually what an Australian value is is that the muscle
Speaker 1: we could be exercising, And so I think care and kindness,
Speaker 1: respect exerising that muscle are now what I think are
Speaker 1: some of the great Australian values.
Speaker 3: With those values in mind, and you know, prioritizing care
Speaker 3: and respect and what that means to you, inevitably a
Speaker 3: role of the crown representing the crown means inevitable links
Speaker 3: to colonialism and all that that symbolizes. How do you
Speaker 3: reconcile that with Australia's First nation's history and how does
Speaker 3: that play into your approach as governor General.
Speaker 1: I guess it comes back to my philosphy that everyone belongs.
Speaker 1: I have had a long association with many First Nations people,
Speaker 1: and I served on the Board of Reconciliation Australia. I
Speaker 1: had to imagine what would my conversations be with First
Speaker 1: Nations Australians about why I would say yes without being
Speaker 1: able to ask them at the time, But once I
Speaker 1: had announced, I reached out to all sorts of people
Speaker 1: and it was so generous that Aboriginal torature. Other people said,
Speaker 1: of course you should say yes, of course you should
Speaker 1: do this job. But do it with the greatest of
Speaker 1: respect to our story. But our story isn't your story.
Speaker 1: Create spaces of respect and belonging where we continue to
Speaker 1: tell our stories, and that's why I do. I try
Speaker 1: to create an environment where we constantly look to the
Speaker 1: strength we have uniquely because of where we started. And
Speaker 1: I don't think any of us really ever want to
Speaker 1: not acknowledge the history of what happened through colonization. I'm
Speaker 1: disappointed as I was growing up, I had no knowledge
Speaker 1: of that part of Australia. Where's my twenty five year
Speaker 1: old daughter today had so much of that storytelling and engagement.
Speaker 1: So I think it comes down to respect. Respect first,
Speaker 1: nation of people for whom the crown is a real problem,
Speaker 1: for whom Australia Day is a problem. I would always
Speaker 1: acknowledge that for many that's the day of mourning. In fact,
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight, that was the date chosen by
Speaker 1: the Aboriginal League to deal with mourning. So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be as expansive, inclusive, respectful, but understanding the role
Speaker 1: I represent for some provides attention, and I will always
Speaker 1: open that conversation up to explain my role in this
Speaker 1: that my sense of deep respect always for First Nations
Speaker 1: people and our history.
Speaker 3: Do you see the role as having shifted in the
Speaker 3: wake of the Voice referendum? Has anything changed since that failure?
Speaker 1: The Governor General didn't play a role in the referendum,
Speaker 1: but we know that for many communities, Aboriginal communities as
Speaker 1: a very high rate of support. What I think has
Speaker 1: changed for my role, though, is the way in which
Speaker 1: compassion has shown. I often visit those communities and I
Speaker 1: think just showing up understanding grief and pain. I don't
Speaker 1: enter into the discussion about the why or how. I
Speaker 1: simply am there, as Sir Zelman Cowan used to say,
Speaker 1: to reflect the light and shade of what's occurring in
Speaker 1: communities back to the Australian people. And then Sir William
Speaker 1: Dean said to me when I met all of the
Speaker 1: living Governors General before I was sworn in, and so
Speaker 1: William just said, just always act with compassion, Just show
Speaker 1: up with compassion. Don't dismiss anybody. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the great powers of this office is to show up,
Speaker 1: to sit compassionately and listen and where appropriate, reflects some
Speaker 1: of this light and shade.
Speaker 3: Given some of the complexities that we have discussed, what
Speaker 3: does the future of the role of the monarchy look
Speaker 3: like for Australians.
Speaker 1: The matter of the republic has been put to the
Speaker 1: Australian public before and it was not successful. Australians did
Speaker 1: not vote for it. And I think what we're seeing
Speaker 1: is a modern king who's engaging on issues many Australians
Speaker 1: share a view on. When people who serve turn up
Speaker 1: and show that they are good people with compassion, Australians
Speaker 1: seem to respond very well.
Speaker 3: There was maybe a sentiment that when Queen Elizabeth passed
Speaker 3: away the conversation would be reignited, but it hasn't really
Speaker 3: has it.
Speaker 1: No. If anything, I think a modern king doing what
Speaker 1: he's doing and a failure of civics with us leaves
Speaker 1: this big gap. It's chasm. And if the only question
Speaker 1: we ever ask ourselves is our relationship to the king
Speaker 1: as opposed to what is the constitution? How is Australia governed?
Speaker 1: How does my vote count. That's my bigger concern that
Speaker 1: if we just keep looking at monarchy and royalty as
Speaker 1: some kind of proxy for a relationship that doesn't actually
Speaker 1: tell us, never tells me what to do, then maybe
Speaker 1: we're asking the wrong question about where we are as
Speaker 1: a country. I have no stake in that in that
Speaker 1: decision right where the Australian people go. I do have
Speaker 1: a really big steak though, in helping Australians be proud
Speaker 1: of that civic life and reflecting on why do I
Speaker 1: not care? Why do I not know what the Governor
Speaker 1: General does? And why is it easy for me to
Speaker 1: knock it than it is to ask myself the question
Speaker 1: of hang on, how does that work? Oh? Is that
Speaker 1: why I have a compulsory vote? And I think, particularly
Speaker 1: for people you're speaking to younger Australians, twenty five thousand
Speaker 1: children and come through Government House every year at grade six,
Speaker 1: half of those kids understand our civics. Generally, by the
Speaker 1: time they get to end of view ten it's dropped
Speaker 1: to under twenty five percent. So something's happening when those
Speaker 1: kids come through who are enthusiastic and then knowing that
Speaker 1: by the time they get to you ten who cares,
Speaker 1: and then as they get to be adults, who cares
Speaker 1: even less, And then we start throwing things around and
Speaker 1: criticizing the people the roles. Then we're in division and
Speaker 1: misinformation and disinformation, and no one knows how to interpret
Speaker 1: what's real anymore. So I go back to how do
Speaker 1: you grab hold of what I see in those twenty
Speaker 1: five thousand children through your audience and beyond to say,
Speaker 1: it is magic when you see a young person who
Speaker 1: knows what our system is. And it's equally really upsetting
Speaker 1: when I meet people who have given up caring. And
Speaker 1: so my job, I think, is to keep showing up
Speaker 1: and saying, no matter what you might think before asking
Speaker 1: the question, I'm here to help build. Together with as
Speaker 1: many as a strangers, I can find a story about
Speaker 1: our civics and how we want to cherish it.
Speaker 3: I'm really interested in your extensive experience in the private
Speaker 3: sector as a woman who has been a pioneer in
Speaker 3: many fields, in many different positions. I believe when you
Speaker 3: were first appointed the first female AFL commissioner, you were
Speaker 3: described as a quota pick. There is a lot of
Speaker 3: conversation going on at the moment about quotas your position.
Speaker 3: Leader Susan Lee just last week spoke about quotas. She
Speaker 3: said she doesn't really care if we have quotas. She
Speaker 3: just wants more women in the Liberal Party. So with
Speaker 3: all of this conversation going on and your experience, what
Speaker 3: is your stance on quoters? What's your position?
Speaker 1: If I look back to the AFL days, the fastest
Speaker 1: growing membership of clubs and the people who held up
Speaker 1: the AFL system financially supporting were women. At least half
Speaker 1: the fans were women, and so the president of the
Speaker 1: AFL went to ten women. We went through the most
Speaker 1: incredible series of interviews, Amy, I got down to short,
Speaker 1: shorter lists until the last two of us were there,
Speaker 1: and then finally I was the fortunate person to be appointed.
Speaker 1: And then it started, it's woke, it's gender. You know.
Speaker 1: It was a many people wrote, she lacks merit, this
Speaker 1: is simply a quota. My response at the time, in
Speaker 1: the same way I would say about my current appointment,
Speaker 1: is look at how we got here. So the men
Speaker 1: on the commission before I was appointed were never put
Speaker 1: through a recruitment process, though never interviewed. Now there are
Speaker 1: four women on that commission. Every appointment to the Commission
Speaker 1: is done through a process where there is an interview process, nominations, referees.
Speaker 1: It didn't happen before that. So sometimes we fix imbalances
Speaker 1: and inequalities by having to break the system, but do
Speaker 1: it in a way that is all about merit. The
Speaker 1: whole thing about that process was it was the first
Speaker 1: merit based appointment because we had to be tested against
Speaker 1: one another. So I'm the second only in this role
Speaker 1: as a woman, and in accepting this role, I knew
Speaker 1: that there would be a torrent of that kind of ranting,
Speaker 1: from abuse to just anger that quotas and systems are
Speaker 1: gone too far and men didn't count him. I expected
Speaker 1: all of that. There is no doubt in my mind
Speaker 1: that the Prime Minister, in appointing a woman, was reflecting
Speaker 1: on the fact that there only been one other and
Speaker 1: I'm number twenty eight. The Prime Minister was reflecting the
Speaker 1: fact that we had to stop telling the country that
Speaker 1: only men could do this job. So I had to
Speaker 1: reconcile that it wasn't a quota. That was the most
Speaker 1: natural thing for a leader to do, to say I
Speaker 1: want to make sure Australian see that no gender gets
Speaker 1: this above the other. So if we have inequity and
Speaker 1: we can fix it, that's what we do. It's the
Speaker 1: way in which you deal with the quote and how
Speaker 1: you explain it, and how you show the benefit to men.
Speaker 1: I have never liked serving on a board of all women.
Speaker 1: It's because no group of homogeneous people with the same
Speaker 1: experience ever make the kind of good decisions that a
Speaker 1: group of people with different experiences can make. But hoping,
Speaker 1: wishing and praying for equality for anyone has never worked.
Speaker 1: You have to set yourself a target. You've got to
Speaker 1: measure yourself against it. You've got to the best people
Speaker 1: available and we have to show them it's not a
Speaker 1: zero sum game for those that think they've lost out.
Speaker 3: Sammuston, I could talk to you all day, but I
Speaker 3: have one final question before we let you go. Thank
Speaker 3: you for being so generous with your time. We are
Speaker 3: speaking essentially on the anniversary of your appointment to this role,
Speaker 3: almost to the day one year ago that you became
Speaker 3: Governor General of Australia. We do something here at TDA
Speaker 3: on staff birthdays where we ask each other to share
Speaker 3: something that we know now that we didn't know a
Speaker 3: year ago. So I thought in the spirit of your
Speaker 3: GG birthday? What do you know now that you didn't
Speaker 3: know a year ago?
Speaker 1: Wow? So without any preparation, that's great. Sorry, I love
Speaker 1: I love I love that question. I love it. There
Speaker 1: are so many things I now know that I did
Speaker 1: not know coming into this role. I think what I
Speaker 1: know now is that we are a much bigger, better
Speaker 1: united nation as Australia than I ever contemplated. When I started,
Speaker 1: I was more thinking about the things that are holding us back.
Speaker 1: And I now get to see, whether the panoramic view
Speaker 1: or the fine grain, wherever I go, I see something
Speaker 1: about this country that is truly astonishing. It doesn't just
Speaker 1: make me the number one fan of Australia, although I
Speaker 1: think I have become that. I am constantly thrilled and delighted,
Speaker 1: not amazed, but confirmed in the view that we are
Speaker 1: so much stronger. We're in a better place than we
Speaker 1: let ourselves understand. Don't mean to be nationalistic or it's
Speaker 1: just we are extraordinary and I hadn't let myself really
Speaker 1: think about that coming into this role. And the last
Speaker 1: thing I've realized is that it's okay for us to
Speaker 1: start telling stories back to ourselves. The other positive ones
Speaker 1: We do not have to crowd ourselves always with what
Speaker 1: might still cause us to be at odds. We need
Speaker 1: to keep telling ourselves a much bigger, better, mighty story
Speaker 1: and lock into that and then do the work.
Speaker 2: Such a fascinating, fascinating chat. Thank you so much to
Speaker 2: Sam Wawston for her time, and thank you so much
Speaker 2: to Emma of course for doing that incredible interview. We'll
Speaker 2: be back this afternoon with our evening headlines, but until then,
Speaker 2: have a great day.
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bujelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest
Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present,