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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily Art.

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Speaker 2: This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ours. It's Monday,

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Speaker 3: the seventh of July. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fit Simon's.

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Speaker 3: We are bringing you something a little bit different to

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Speaker 3: start your week today. It's an interview with Australia's head

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Speaker 3: of state. Now you would be forgiven for thinking we

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Speaker 3: might be talking about the Prime Minister, but we are not.

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Speaker 2: We are actually talking about the Governor General. Sam Austin

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Speaker 2: was appointed to the role just over a year ago

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Speaker 2: and as Governor General, she has a variety of constitutional

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Speaker 2: and ceremonial responsibilities and she acts as the King's representative

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Speaker 2: in Australia. But what does any of that really mean?

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Speaker 2: And how does it work? To unpack these questions and more, Emma,

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Speaker 2: you sat down with Sam Muston to find out all

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: I sure did. Here is my chat with none other

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Speaker 3: than the Governor General. Governor General Sam Mouston. Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Simmah. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 3: We are very excited to be talking with you today.

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Speaker 3: And we'll start with a really simple bit broad one.

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Speaker 3: I suppose what is the role of the Governor General?

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Speaker 3: What do you do?

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Speaker 1: Well? Thank you for asking that question. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people meet me in many different walks of life now

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Speaker 1: and they say, it's nice to see, but who are

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Speaker 1: you and what do you do? So I like to

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Speaker 1: think of the Governor General having four c's that define

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Speaker 1: the ambit of the role. And it's really simple. I

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Speaker 1: have constitutional roles, I have ceremonial functions, community obligations and

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Speaker 1: community interaction. And I'm Commander in Chief of the Australian

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Speaker 1: Defense Force. How I came to be here and what

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Speaker 1: a Governor General is is all a function of our

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Speaker 1: wonderful democracy. We have a constitution that governs how our

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Speaker 1: parliamentary and operate. So I'm effectively a part of the parliament.

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Speaker 1: I am appointed by the monarch, King Child, but I

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Speaker 1: am chosen by the Australian Prime Minister, as all Australian

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Speaker 1: Governor's General have been before. And then I carry all

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Speaker 1: of the constitutional functions that are held by the head

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Speaker 1: of state, who is the King, and so I'm not

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Speaker 1: the Australian head of state. I represent the Australian head

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Speaker 1: of state. And an important feature that many people miss

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Speaker 1: is that the King would never contact an Australian Governor

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Speaker 1: General to suggest how we should do anything or offer

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Speaker 1: advice or direction, and a governor General would never contact

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Speaker 1: the Palace to ask for advice. I take my advice

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Speaker 1: and counsel from the Prime Minister, the Cabinet, and I

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Speaker 1: work with the government and the Parliament, and so we

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Speaker 1: have a historical connection to the monarch, but that has

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Speaker 1: no bearing on the way in which I conduct myself

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Speaker 1: in the role.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like a pretty unique job. How do you

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Speaker 3: know you're doing a good job? And if it's not Charles,

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Speaker 3: who is your boss?

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Speaker 1: That's such a good question. I've been appointed by someone who,

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Speaker 1: under the Constitution is the head of state, and theoretically,

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Speaker 1: I guess you could say that would make him my boss.

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Speaker 1: But in the way I think of the Australian public

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Speaker 1: that all Australians are my boss, and so how do

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Speaker 1: I know how I'm doing a good job. One will

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Speaker 1: be that more Australians understand a why we have a

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Speaker 1: Governor General and what the purpose of the role is,

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Speaker 1: and b could actually describe how our constitutional system operates,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be able to tell you why our democracy

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Speaker 1: works and at least give you the basics of our civics.

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Speaker 1: If I could judge over the next few years or

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Speaker 1: see that more Australians were interested in how our democracy

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Speaker 1: actually works and showed up as active, curious, animated citizens,

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Speaker 1: then I think I'm doing a very good job on

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Speaker 1: that part of the role. More generally, I have to

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Speaker 1: do a good role for Australians in showing up and

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Speaker 1: representing the best of Australian values when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the ceremonial parts of my job, turning up in community

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Speaker 1: all around the country to listen to what it is

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Speaker 1: that Australians can tell someone who has no part politics

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Speaker 1: but could talk to government about things that I get

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Speaker 1: to see from my angle that maybe others in the

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Speaker 1: system don't.

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Speaker 3: I want to speak a little more about the constitutional

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Speaker 3: and legislative responsibilities of your role. Firstly, can you tell

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Speaker 3: us a little bit about royal assent how that all works.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So, for any legislation that he is raised in

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Speaker 1: the Parliament and has gone through both houses of the Parliament,

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Speaker 1: that is put into the bill form, it's signed by

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Speaker 1: the Clerk of the Senate and then is sent to

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Speaker 1: me to give the royal assent. So I'm always very

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Speaker 1: conscious that when I open those bills and as I'm signing,

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Speaker 1: I always think about the fact that in this moment,

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Speaker 1: in giving that assent, I'm giving effect to the will

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Speaker 1: of the Australian people, and this bill now becomes the law.

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Speaker 1: I can't read the bill and say, actually, I have

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Speaker 1: some questions or I'd like to debate the aspects of this.

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Speaker 1: It's my job to fulfill the ultimate final step of

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Speaker 1: the people's elected representatives pass laws that then need the

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Speaker 1: assent under the Constitution.

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Speaker 3: What happens when or if legislation comes across your desk

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Speaker 3: that does conflict with your values. You have, throughout your

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Speaker 3: career in the private sector championed the cause of various

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Speaker 3: communities of social justice issues, So how do you reconcile

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Speaker 3: that part of yourself with this job.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have accepted the job if I didn't understand

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Speaker 1: the very very specific obligations. When I was sworn in

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Speaker 1: as Australia's Governor General, I swore an oath to the

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Speaker 1: King and I saw an oath to the Australian people

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Speaker 1: about how I would conduct myself in the role. And

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Speaker 1: that is with total impartiality and no politics. No governor

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Speaker 1: General would ever ever tamper with a constitutional responsibility that

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Speaker 1: is so clear. And so I'm in that unique position

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Speaker 1: where I have no politics, I have no policies, I

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Speaker 1: have no money to administer. I represent ultimately what with

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Speaker 1: the will of all Australian people when they vote. All

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Speaker 1: I do was give effect to things that Australia what

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Speaker 1: to have happened. And my personal views really are not

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Speaker 1: to say relevant, they're completely inappropriate when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the administration of our government.

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Speaker 3: So in the context of government, you are the representative

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Speaker 3: of the constitution. You're kind of the expert of all

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Speaker 3: things constitutional, and it's your job to uphold every part

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 1: So the Crown's powers are dealt within the Constitution and

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Speaker 1: the power of the Governor General to represent the head

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Speaker 1: of state. Given all of that, some would say, well

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Speaker 1: the King must call occasionally and say I think you

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Speaker 1: could do it this way, or I've noticed this is

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Speaker 1: happening in your constitution. He would never do that, and

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Speaker 1: I would never call his office to say I'm looking

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Speaker 1: for guidance. The person I would speak to if I

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Speaker 1: had if I wanted to discuss things would be the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister, a senior cabinet minister, or my staff the

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Speaker 1: office of the Official Secretary. I think it was almost

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Speaker 1: like an entirely hermetically sealed Australian way of operating. But

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Speaker 1: we draw my power from the head of Stafe in

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Speaker 1: the Constitution, the King.

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Speaker 3: How would you answer a question from someone who might ask, well,

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Speaker 3: what's the point? Why does that matter for the legislative process.

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Speaker 1: What we have? I think in this country it's a

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Speaker 1: story that starts with sixty five thousand years of attachment

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Speaker 1: to this continent and first Nations law, language, culture, eldership

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Speaker 1: always offered generously to those who have come subsequently, and

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Speaker 1: we come through fifty or sixty years of the most

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Speaker 1: remarkable multiculturalism and arrival of over eight million people to

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Speaker 1: this country who bring a promise when they become Australian

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Speaker 1: citizens to give effect to the laws of this country

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Speaker 1: and we give their allegiance to Australia and Australians. And

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Speaker 1: if you put those things together and you ask what's

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Speaker 1: holding the whole thing together so that we can continue

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Speaker 1: to grow and be dynamic, I think it's the fact

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Speaker 1: that we have this solid, solid democracy with a Westminster

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Speaker 1: system that's linked to the crown in a way that

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Speaker 1: gives stability and continuity, but does not determine how we

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Speaker 1: deal with that in this country. Our constitution at the

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Speaker 1: time a federation was drafted to give the power to

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Speaker 1: the people to always amend it should a government and

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Speaker 1: opposition of a day. Since that the Australian public has

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Speaker 1: an issue they would like to be asked about that

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Speaker 1: they could then vote on, and we've had many of those,

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Speaker 1: most do not succeed. The problem isn't with the crown.

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Speaker 1: It's that we've become a very complacent country with a

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Speaker 1: lack of attention to detail on civics. So when questions

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Speaker 1: are asked of us as a nation, if you don't

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Speaker 1: know that we have a constitution, if you don't know

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Speaker 1: the role of the Governor General and it's relationship with

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Speaker 1: the Prime Minister and the Parliament, and you're not encouraged

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Speaker 1: to have a civics view and think about yourself as

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Speaker 1: a citizen with a sense of agency, then why would

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Speaker 1: you show up and actually do the work to change

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Speaker 1: the constitution. So I see the problem not being in

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Speaker 1: our constitutional framework. The problem was in our lack of

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Speaker 1: understanding of the basic civics that give us the power

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Speaker 1: to exercise that right and to change things should the

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Speaker 1: country want to.

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Speaker 3: What you speak to there is so important to what

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Speaker 3: we're trying to do here on a much smaller scale

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Speaker 3: with what the daily olds means.

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Speaker 1: When I say the reason I'm so delighted to chat

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Speaker 1: with you, Emma and for your audience is that you're

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Speaker 1: not doing a little thing. What you're involved in is

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Speaker 1: what I think is fundamental to our success as a nation,

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Speaker 1: because I get this incredible kaleidoscopic view of the country

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Speaker 1: and then I get to see it at fine grain

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Speaker 1: when I go and visit communities and talk to people,

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Speaker 1: and I see the problem of the CIVICX question. And

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Speaker 1: so what you're doing in unpacking it and giving people

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Speaker 1: a sense of their own agency is really important. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: because you're dispelling a whole lot of misunderstanding, but you're

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Speaker 1: pushing up against misinformation and disinformation on this front.

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Speaker 3: I'm interested in unpacking those misconceptions around your relationship with

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Speaker 3: the royal family, specifically, acting for the monarch is that

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Speaker 3: different to acting for the royal family. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people do imagine that you might be emailing

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Speaker 3: each other or sending off a WhatsApp message here and there.

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Speaker 1: So and I like the way that you made the

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Speaker 1: distinction between the Crown and Royalty. I exercised the powers

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Speaker 1: of the Crown through the Constitution in Australia as an

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Speaker 1: Australian chosen by an Australian. I have a relationship with

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Speaker 1: His Majesty as he appointed me. I went to visit

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Speaker 1: him in Buckingham Palace in the months before I was appointed,

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Speaker 1: and we sat to get to know one another. We

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Speaker 1: had just under an hour together. He didn't tell me

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Speaker 1: how to do my job, but he asked me how

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Speaker 1: Australia was going. What was I saying, what was almost

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Speaker 1: proud of is Australian. He asked me about my daughter

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Speaker 1: and how she was going. It was both very important

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Speaker 1: and also very just person to person getting to know someone.

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Speaker 1: I said, would you like me to occasionally write to

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Speaker 1: you just to let you know things that are happening

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Speaker 1: in Australia, except that would be very good, and I

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Speaker 1: will occasionally write to you to let you know what's

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Speaker 1: happening here. When he came to Australia with Her Majesty

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Speaker 1: in October last year, and I hosted a royal visit.

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Speaker 1: Australians have an affinity and I think some affection for

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Speaker 1: the royal family, and a royal visit is always generally

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Speaker 1: well received. Those that are not happy make that known

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Speaker 1: and either ignore the whole thing or protest, and that's

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Speaker 1: one of the great things about our democracy that that

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Speaker 1: can happen. Of course, whilst he was here, he was

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Speaker 1: the head of state, and so I moved out of

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Speaker 1: Admiralty House while he and the Queen stayed there, because

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Speaker 1: that's the place where the Governor General or the head

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Speaker 1: of State will stay and it would be not appropriate

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Speaker 1: for me as just to be in the house chatting.

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Speaker 3: And because he's sharing Netflix login, that's.

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Speaker 1: Actually you might share a log in, but not share

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Speaker 1: a kind of conversation on a difficult constitutional issue I

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Speaker 1: might have in the back of my mind or a

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Speaker 1: thing that's facing Australia that I think he should guide

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Speaker 1: me on. That separation's really important. Does a deep respect

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Speaker 1: for one another. There's a deep understanding of what each

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Speaker 1: other's roles are. And then he was really intrigued and

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Speaker 1: interested in the successful parts of the country that we

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Speaker 1: were showing him and letting people come and tell him

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Speaker 1: about as part of the story of how Australia's going.

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Speaker 3: How do you balance representing the crown and representing modern Australia,

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Speaker 3: modern Australian values. What does that balance look like?

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Speaker 1: When the Prime Minister said he wanted me to be

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Speaker 1: a modern, visible and optimistic Governor General. In accepting the role,

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Speaker 1: I had to think, what does modernity for the Australian

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Speaker 1: Governor General actually mean? How do I show that? And

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Speaker 1: in part that's where I came to the view that

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Speaker 1: I would commit myself to care, kindness and respect as

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Speaker 1: the centerpiece of how I would do the job. What

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Speaker 1: is care in a modern, successful, complex society? How do

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Speaker 1: you show that? And I'm taking my lead now from

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Speaker 1: Australians wherever I go, and I ask them what does

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Speaker 1: care mean for you? Does it show up physically in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a terrible natural disaster? Or is it

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Speaker 1: the way we treat each other when someone is doing

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Speaker 1: it tough? Or do we do it through our mental

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Speaker 1: health system? Do we do it by not excluding The

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Speaker 1: great opportunity and gift I've been given in this role

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Speaker 1: is to show, in representing the head of state that

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Speaker 1: everyone can belong in this country. And I honestly am

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Speaker 1: I am overwhelmed with people's level of enthusiasm and interest

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Speaker 1: when they see that someone in a high public office

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Speaker 1: is happy to ask those questions to say, is that

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Speaker 1: actually what an Australian value is is that the muscle

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Speaker 1: we could be exercising, And so I think care and kindness,

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Speaker 1: respect exerising that muscle are now what I think are

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Speaker 1: some of the great Australian values.

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Speaker 3: With those values in mind, and you know, prioritizing care

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Speaker 3: and respect and what that means to you, inevitably a

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Speaker 3: role of the crown representing the crown means inevitable links

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Speaker 3: to colonialism and all that that symbolizes. How do you

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Speaker 3: reconcile that with Australia's First nation's history and how does

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Speaker 3: that play into your approach as governor General.

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Speaker 1: I guess it comes back to my philosphy that everyone belongs.

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Speaker 1: I have had a long association with many First Nations people,

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Speaker 1: and I served on the Board of Reconciliation Australia. I

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Speaker 1: had to imagine what would my conversations be with First

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Speaker 1: Nations Australians about why I would say yes without being

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Speaker 1: able to ask them at the time, But once I

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Speaker 1: had announced, I reached out to all sorts of people

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Speaker 1: and it was so generous that Aboriginal torature. Other people said,

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Speaker 1: of course you should say yes, of course you should

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Speaker 1: do this job. But do it with the greatest of

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Speaker 1: respect to our story. But our story isn't your story.

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Speaker 1: Create spaces of respect and belonging where we continue to

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Speaker 1: tell our stories, and that's why I do. I try

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Speaker 1: to create an environment where we constantly look to the

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Speaker 1: strength we have uniquely because of where we started. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think any of us really ever want to

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Speaker 1: not acknowledge the history of what happened through colonization. I'm

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Speaker 1: disappointed as I was growing up, I had no knowledge

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Speaker 1: of that part of Australia. Where's my twenty five year

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Speaker 1: old daughter today had so much of that storytelling and engagement.

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Speaker 1: So I think it comes down to respect. Respect first,

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Speaker 1: nation of people for whom the crown is a real problem,

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Speaker 1: for whom Australia Day is a problem. I would always

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that for many that's the day of mourning. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight, that was the date chosen by

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Speaker 1: the Aboriginal League to deal with mourning. So I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to be as expansive, inclusive, respectful, but understanding the role

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Speaker 1: I represent for some provides attention, and I will always

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Speaker 1: open that conversation up to explain my role in this

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Speaker 1: that my sense of deep respect always for First Nations

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Speaker 1: people and our history.

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Speaker 3: Do you see the role as having shifted in the

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Speaker 3: wake of the Voice referendum? Has anything changed since that failure?

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Speaker 1: The Governor General didn't play a role in the referendum,

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Speaker 1: but we know that for many communities, Aboriginal communities as

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Speaker 1: a very high rate of support. What I think has

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Speaker 1: changed for my role, though, is the way in which

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Speaker 1: compassion has shown. I often visit those communities and I

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Speaker 1: think just showing up understanding grief and pain. I don't

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Speaker 1: enter into the discussion about the why or how. I

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Speaker 1: simply am there, as Sir Zelman Cowan used to say,

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Speaker 1: to reflect the light and shade of what's occurring in

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Speaker 1: communities back to the Australian people. And then Sir William

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Speaker 1: Dean said to me when I met all of the

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Speaker 1: living Governors General before I was sworn in, and so

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Speaker 1: William just said, just always act with compassion, Just show

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Speaker 1: up with compassion. Don't dismiss anybody. And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the great powers of this office is to show up,

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Speaker 1: to sit compassionately and listen and where appropriate, reflects some

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Speaker 1: of this light and shade.

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Speaker 3: Given some of the complexities that we have discussed, what

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Speaker 3: does the future of the role of the monarchy look

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Speaker 3: like for Australians.

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Speaker 1: The matter of the republic has been put to the

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Speaker 1: Australian public before and it was not successful. Australians did

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Speaker 1: not vote for it. And I think what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: is a modern king who's engaging on issues many Australians

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Speaker 1: share a view on. When people who serve turn up

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Speaker 1: and show that they are good people with compassion, Australians

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Speaker 1: seem to respond very well.

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Speaker 3: There was maybe a sentiment that when Queen Elizabeth passed

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Speaker 3: away the conversation would be reignited, but it hasn't really

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Speaker 3: has it.

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Speaker 1: No. If anything, I think a modern king doing what

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Speaker 1: he's doing and a failure of civics with us leaves

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Speaker 1: this big gap. It's chasm. And if the only question

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Speaker 1: we ever ask ourselves is our relationship to the king

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Speaker 1: as opposed to what is the constitution? How is Australia governed?

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Speaker 1: How does my vote count. That's my bigger concern that

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Speaker 1: if we just keep looking at monarchy and royalty as

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Speaker 1: some kind of proxy for a relationship that doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: tell us, never tells me what to do, then maybe

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Speaker 1: we're asking the wrong question about where we are as

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Speaker 1: a country. I have no stake in that in that

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Speaker 1: decision right where the Australian people go. I do have

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Speaker 1: a really big steak though, in helping Australians be proud

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Speaker 1: of that civic life and reflecting on why do I

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Speaker 1: not care? Why do I not know what the Governor

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Speaker 1: General does? And why is it easy for me to

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Speaker 1: knock it than it is to ask myself the question

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Speaker 1: of hang on, how does that work? Oh? Is that

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Speaker 1: why I have a compulsory vote? And I think, particularly

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Speaker 1: for people you're speaking to younger Australians, twenty five thousand

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Speaker 1: children and come through Government House every year at grade six,

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Speaker 1: half of those kids understand our civics. Generally, by the

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Speaker 1: time they get to end of view ten it's dropped

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Speaker 1: to under twenty five percent. So something's happening when those

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Speaker 1: kids come through who are enthusiastic and then knowing that

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Speaker 1: by the time they get to you ten who cares,

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Speaker 1: and then as they get to be adults, who cares

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Speaker 1: even less, And then we start throwing things around and

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Speaker 1: criticizing the people the roles. Then we're in division and

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Speaker 1: misinformation and disinformation, and no one knows how to interpret

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Speaker 1: what's real anymore. So I go back to how do

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Speaker 1: you grab hold of what I see in those twenty

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Speaker 1: five thousand children through your audience and beyond to say,

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Speaker 1: it is magic when you see a young person who

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Speaker 1: knows what our system is. And it's equally really upsetting

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Speaker 1: when I meet people who have given up caring. And

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Speaker 1: so my job, I think, is to keep showing up

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Speaker 1: and saying, no matter what you might think before asking

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Speaker 1: the question, I'm here to help build. Together with as

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Speaker 1: many as a strangers, I can find a story about

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Speaker 1: our civics and how we want to cherish it.

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Speaker 3: I'm really interested in your extensive experience in the private

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Speaker 3: sector as a woman who has been a pioneer in

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Speaker 3: many fields, in many different positions. I believe when you

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Speaker 3: were first appointed the first female AFL commissioner, you were

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Speaker 3: described as a quota pick. There is a lot of

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Speaker 3: conversation going on at the moment about quotas your position.

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Speaker 3: Leader Susan Lee just last week spoke about quotas. She

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Speaker 3: said she doesn't really care if we have quotas. She

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Speaker 3: just wants more women in the Liberal Party. So with

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Speaker 3: all of this conversation going on and your experience, what

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Speaker 3: is your stance on quoters? What's your position?

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Speaker 1: If I look back to the AFL days, the fastest

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Speaker 1: growing membership of clubs and the people who held up

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Speaker 1: the AFL system financially supporting were women. At least half

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Speaker 1: the fans were women, and so the president of the

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Speaker 1: AFL went to ten women. We went through the most

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Speaker 1: incredible series of interviews, Amy, I got down to short,

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Speaker 1: shorter lists until the last two of us were there,

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Speaker 1: and then finally I was the fortunate person to be appointed.

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Speaker 1: And then it started, it's woke, it's gender. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was a many people wrote, she lacks merit, this

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Speaker 1: is simply a quota. My response at the time, in

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Speaker 1: the same way I would say about my current appointment,

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Speaker 1: is look at how we got here. So the men

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Speaker 1: on the commission before I was appointed were never put

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Speaker 1: through a recruitment process, though never interviewed. Now there are

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Speaker 1: four women on that commission. Every appointment to the Commission

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Speaker 1: is done through a process where there is an interview process, nominations, referees.

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Speaker 1: It didn't happen before that. So sometimes we fix imbalances

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Speaker 1: and inequalities by having to break the system, but do

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Speaker 1: it in a way that is all about merit. The

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Speaker 1: whole thing about that process was it was the first

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Speaker 1: merit based appointment because we had to be tested against

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Speaker 1: one another. So I'm the second only in this role

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Speaker 1: as a woman, and in accepting this role, I knew

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Speaker 1: that there would be a torrent of that kind of ranting,

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Speaker 1: from abuse to just anger that quotas and systems are

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Speaker 1: gone too far and men didn't count him. I expected

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Speaker 1: all of that. There is no doubt in my mind

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Speaker 1: that the Prime Minister, in appointing a woman, was reflecting

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Speaker 1: on the fact that there only been one other and

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Speaker 1: I'm number twenty eight. The Prime Minister was reflecting the

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Speaker 1: fact that we had to stop telling the country that

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Speaker 1: only men could do this job. So I had to

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Speaker 1: reconcile that it wasn't a quota. That was the most

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Speaker 1: natural thing for a leader to do, to say I

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Speaker 1: want to make sure Australian see that no gender gets

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Speaker 1: this above the other. So if we have inequity and

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Speaker 1: we can fix it, that's what we do. It's the

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Speaker 1: way in which you deal with the quote and how

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Speaker 1: you explain it, and how you show the benefit to men.

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Speaker 1: I have never liked serving on a board of all women.

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Speaker 1: It's because no group of homogeneous people with the same

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Speaker 1: experience ever make the kind of good decisions that a

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Speaker 1: group of people with different experiences can make. But hoping,

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Speaker 1: wishing and praying for equality for anyone has never worked.

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Speaker 1: You have to set yourself a target. You've got to

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Speaker 1: measure yourself against it. You've got to the best people

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Speaker 1: available and we have to show them it's not a

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Speaker 1: zero sum game for those that think they've lost out.

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Speaker 3: Sammuston, I could talk to you all day, but I

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Speaker 3: have one final question before we let you go. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for being so generous with your time. We are

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Speaker 3: speaking essentially on the anniversary of your appointment to this role,

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Speaker 3: almost to the day one year ago that you became

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Speaker 3: Governor General of Australia. We do something here at TDA

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Speaker 3: on staff birthdays where we ask each other to share

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Speaker 3: something that we know now that we didn't know a

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Speaker 3: year ago. So I thought in the spirit of your

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Speaker 3: GG birthday? What do you know now that you didn't

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Speaker 3: know a year ago?

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Speaker 1: Wow? So without any preparation, that's great. Sorry, I love

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Speaker 1: I love I love that question. I love it. There

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Speaker 1: are so many things I now know that I did

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Speaker 1: not know coming into this role. I think what I

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Speaker 1: know now is that we are a much bigger, better

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Speaker 1: united nation as Australia than I ever contemplated. When I started,

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Speaker 1: I was more thinking about the things that are holding us back.

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Speaker 1: And I now get to see, whether the panoramic view

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Speaker 1: or the fine grain, wherever I go, I see something

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Speaker 1: about this country that is truly astonishing. It doesn't just

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Speaker 1: make me the number one fan of Australia, although I

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Speaker 1: think I have become that. I am constantly thrilled and delighted,

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Speaker 1: not amazed, but confirmed in the view that we are

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Speaker 1: so much stronger. We're in a better place than we

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Speaker 1: let ourselves understand. Don't mean to be nationalistic or it's

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Speaker 1: just we are extraordinary and I hadn't let myself really

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Speaker 1: think about that coming into this role. And the last

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Speaker 1: thing I've realized is that it's okay for us to

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Speaker 1: start telling stories back to ourselves. The other positive ones

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Speaker 1: We do not have to crowd ourselves always with what

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Speaker 1: might still cause us to be at odds. We need

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Speaker 1: to keep telling ourselves a much bigger, better, mighty story

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Speaker 1: and lock into that and then do the work.

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Speaker 2: Such a fascinating, fascinating chat. Thank you so much to

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Speaker 2: Sam Wawston for her time, and thank you so much

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Speaker 2: to Emma of course for doing that incredible interview. We'll

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Speaker 2: be back this afternoon with our evening headlines, but until then,

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Speaker 2: have a great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bujelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

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Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present,