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Speaker 1: So we know that the Northern Territory Police have certainly

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Speaker 1: been pretty busy and over the weekend. As you heard

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Speaker 1: on the show, it's certainly been a busy time for

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Speaker 1: them in Alis quite a few incidents that they were

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Speaker 1: called out to over the weekend. In one instance, three

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Speaker 1: teenagers allegedly stole a car and went for a joy

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Speaker 1: ride after driving off from a service station at Barrow Creek.

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Speaker 1: After stopping the vehicle with a tired deflation device, police

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Speaker 1: chase the occupants through scrubland.

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Speaker 2: They eventually arrested.

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Speaker 1: The boys, aged fourteen and fifteen, with the help of

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Speaker 1: patrol dog Fitzi, who had rocks thrown at him during

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Speaker 1: that ordeal. Now we know that investigations are still ongoing

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Speaker 1: into sixteen break ins, three attempted breakings and eight stolen cars.

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Speaker 1: Central Australia is not alone. We often hear of incidents

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Speaker 1: obviously in the Darwin region as well. Police still calling

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Speaker 1: for assistance to locate two females who allegedly assaulted and

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Speaker 1: robbed a taxi driver on vandal And Drive near Pattison

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Speaker 1: Street on Saturday.

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Speaker 2: Now, joining me.

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Speaker 1: In the studio right now, I'll just make sure I

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Speaker 1: get these titles correct because I was saying the wrong

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Speaker 1: thing a little bit earlier. We have got Assistant Commissioner

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Speaker 1: of Greater Darwin and Road Policing, Martin Dole.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Cating, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: And we've also got Craig Laidler, who is obviously the

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Speaker 1: Assistant Commissioner as well of Regional and Remote Policing.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Craig.

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Speaker 4: Morning, good morning to your liustiness.

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Speaker 1: Thank you both for joining us this morning. Craig, I

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Speaker 1: might just get you to pull that mic up for

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Speaker 1: me slightly, if you can, so we can hear you

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Speaker 1: nice and loudly. We know that it's been a busy

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Speaker 1: time for the Terrtory Police, and I think most people

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Speaker 1: listening this morning would understand that it's always a pretty

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Speaker 1: busy time for our Northern Territory Police. So I appreciate

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Speaker 1: you both joining us this morning. Craig, I'm keen to

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Speaker 1: find out from you. Firstly, we know over the weekend

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Speaker 1: you'd have to say it was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: shocker in Alice Springs. Six people have now been arrested

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, and investigations are still ongoing. Is

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Speaker 1: this one of the worst weekends that you've experienced in ALUs?

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Speaker 4: A very busy weekend.

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Speaker 5: What we had was a group of offenders who undertook

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Speaker 5: a manner of behavior over the particular the two days

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Speaker 5: of Saturday and the Sunday. But what we did have

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Speaker 5: was a fantastic police response. You know, we had Strikeforce

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Speaker 5: Viper that we all know about, our general duties, police,

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Speaker 5: our drone, our canine all out working together and quite

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Speaker 5: quickly they had these offenders in custody and even yesterday,

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Speaker 5: so we had seven of the offenders all remanded in detention.

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Speaker 5: Initially one of them got bail when we first arrested them,

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Speaker 5: but was remanded from court yesterday. So a really good

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Speaker 5: result from excellent work across the board with all of

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Speaker 5: our police that attended, as well as our prosecutions.

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Speaker 1: So seven offenders in custody and does that sort of

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Speaker 1: wrap up?

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Speaker 2: Is that all that.

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Speaker 1: You are chasing now in terms of those offenses that

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Speaker 1: were committed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're still still some further investigations in regards to

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Speaker 5: all the offenses, but yeah, they're the offenders that were

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Speaker 5: involved over the weekend, so certainly happy to have them

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Speaker 5: in custody and a good result for them to be remanded.

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Speaker 2: Are they all youths?

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Speaker 5: They are all youths, and that's the difficult that we're

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Speaker 5: dealing with at the moment, Katie. Like, I've been in

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Speaker 5: other Springs now just over twelve months, and I know

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Speaker 5: these names, and these are the names that were arrested

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Speaker 5: last year. You know, some of these youths have criminal

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Speaker 5: history of two hundred and forty, two hundred and eighteen,

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Speaker 5: one hundred and ninety eight and they're seventeen years old,

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Speaker 5: sixteen years old, fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: So when you say two hundred and forty, you're talking

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Speaker 1: like two hundred and forty offenses to their names.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's their criminal history, that's what they've been involved in. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I mean there would be a lot of people listening

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Speaker 1: this morning and hearing that number and thinking to themselves,

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Speaker 1: how are they on the streets able to still get

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Speaker 1: involved in this kind of crime.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's the gap for us.

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Speaker 5: So we're remanding them in custody, so there's no issues there.

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Speaker 5: But these are property offenses. They're going to be released

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Speaker 5: from custody at some stage even when they're sentenced. So

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Speaker 5: the gap is what are we doing to change those behaviors.

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Speaker 5: It's actually occurring for these youths that actually shifts them

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Speaker 5: on to a different path. Because some of these have

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Speaker 5: got to the age of seventeen, they've been offending since

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Speaker 5: twelve thirteen, and what's happened in the meantime there, so

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Speaker 5: we haven't had the right things in place to change

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Speaker 5: those behaviors and actually have them being productive contributors to society.

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Speaker 2: And I mean it.

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Speaker 1: Must be hard for you guys, particularly in a small

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Speaker 1: town like Alice Springs, where you would get to know

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Speaker 1: the offenders, they would get to know the police as well.

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Speaker 1: And then if you're picking them up what feels like

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Speaker 1: fairly often by the sounds of it, if they've got

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Speaker 1: that many offenses against their name, it must feel like it's.

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Speaker 2: A bit of a revolt.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you describe it, Like it must

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Speaker 1: feel like it's quite frustrating to be picking them up

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Speaker 1: and them continuously doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because it's frustrating. We don't want youth and custody.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to be arresting youth. And I've said

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Speaker 5: it many times. We can't arrest our way out of this,

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Speaker 5: So there needs to be a change. We need to

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Speaker 5: have something in place where we're able to change the

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Speaker 5: behaviors of these youths.

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Speaker 1: And I will I do want to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about that in just a moment. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is there any reason that you can sort of identify

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Speaker 1: why there was such a spike on the weekend?

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Speaker 5: Nothing particular other than this group of youths decided to

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Speaker 5: get together and undertake those offenses.

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Speaker 1: Well, so all seven of those offenders now, they've all

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Speaker 1: been arrested and they remain in custody at this point.

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Speaker 4: That's correct.

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Speaker 1: So we will obviously wait and see exactly what goes

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Speaker 1: on there and how many offenses are they're charged with

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. It sounds as though

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Speaker 1: there's still quite a bit of work underway.

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Speaker 2: We also know.

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Speaker 1: We did just catch up with the Independent memberfore Aralou

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Speaker 1: and Robin Lamley just a small time ago, about half

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Speaker 1: an hour ago, and she had said that there was

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Speaker 1: the alleged rape of a child in Alice Springs over

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Speaker 1: the weekend. She had questioned whether the police have actually

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Speaker 1: arrested anybody in relation to this incident and whether the

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Speaker 1: offender is still at large.

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Speaker 4: That one.

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Speaker 5: What I can tell you is it's a sensitive investigation.

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Speaker 5: There's no risk to the past public at the moment.

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Speaker 5: But I can't provide any more comment than.

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Speaker 1: That, Okay, But an assurance, I guess, is there to

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Speaker 1: the community that that person's not at large or at

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Speaker 1: risk to anybody else.

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Speaker 4: We don't have a risk to the public at the moment.

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Speaker 2: All right now.

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Speaker 1: I know, as I mentioned in the opener, this obviously

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Speaker 1: isn't just a situation in terms of some of this

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Speaker 1: senseless crime that we see around the place in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: I know that Alice Springs has well and truly been

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Speaker 1: under the spotlight, but it is something that we've seen

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Speaker 1: as well around Darwin, and we have sort of seen

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Speaker 1: really I guess you'd say, quite senseless crime at different times.

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Speaker 1: We know that there is sort of things bubbling along.

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Speaker 1: I spoke just a moment ago about that incident in

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Speaker 1: Malac with a taxi driver being assaulted and robbed.

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Speaker 2: Firstly, Martin, is there any update on that incident?

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Speaker 1: Katie?

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Speaker 3: We are still calling for witnesses in relation to that

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Speaker 3: detective acting senior sergeant, and that Cooper is in charge

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Speaker 3: of that investigation, and she's still calling for one of

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Speaker 3: the females who was a witness to the incident to

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Speaker 3: come forward and speak to police in relation to that.

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Speaker 3: So that is still being actively investigated by our Serious

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Speaker 3: Crime section.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right now, I know that we all so obviously

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Speaker 1: hear quite a bit about businesses being broken into. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: zacholi IgA is a really clear example because they have

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Speaker 1: just been you know, they have been like a beacon

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Speaker 1: for all the wrong reasons. I guess you'd say, in

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Speaker 1: terms of having to speak about the incidents that they

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Speaker 1: have gone through and that real frustration. Is it frustrating

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Speaker 1: for the police as well to sort of be rocking

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Speaker 1: up and finding again that there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: the time youths involved in senseless crime.

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Speaker 3: It is frustrating, Katie, and look, our thoughts do go

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Speaker 3: out to those businesses that are affected. It's not only frustrating,

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Speaker 3: but it's traumatic to be the victim of one of

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Speaker 3: these crimes. So it is frustrating for police. It's frustrating

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Speaker 3: to continue to have to apprehend defenders that are committing

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Speaker 3: these senseless acts.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is there a spike at the moment when

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Speaker 1: it comes to that youth offending.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say there's a particular spike, particularly not here

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Speaker 3: in Darwen. It's been pretty consistent. We haven't seen a

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Speaker 3: dramatic drop in numbers. I've got some short snapshot of

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Speaker 3: figures just in relation to some of the work from

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Speaker 3: our Strikeforce Trident at the moment, which is our property

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Speaker 3: crime team in Darwen. In the period up until now,

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Speaker 3: the past three months, our Trident have responded to two

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Speaker 3: hundred and forty two residential breaks, one hundred and thirteen

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Speaker 3: business breaks. We've apprehended one hundred and sixty seven youth

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Speaker 3: and thirty two adults, and we've issued eighteen summons in

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Speaker 3: relation to those offending in the last three months.

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Speaker 2: So in the last three months, tell us again the

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Speaker 2: number of offenders.

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Speaker 3: One hundred and sixty seven youth apprehensions, thirty two adult

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Speaker 3: apprehensions and eighteen summons is in relation to that offending

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Speaker 3: in the last three months alone.

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Speaker 1: Wow, there's some pretty big numbers again, and it does

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Speaker 1: go to show you, obviously, the work that the police

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Speaker 1: are putting in to try and apprehend those people that

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Speaker 1: are doing the wrong thing. Have you seen much of

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Speaker 1: a change when it comes to that ring leader legislation.

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Speaker 1: I know that that was something that was introduced a

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Speaker 1: short time ago. By the sounds of it, the number

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Speaker 1: of youths offending is much greater than the adults in

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Speaker 1: this space.

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Speaker 2: But have you noticed or.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen much of a change since the implementation

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Speaker 1: of that ring leader legislation.

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Speaker 3: We currently have matters before the court that subject to

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Speaker 3: the charges that were introduced. I suppose it's a little

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Speaker 3: bit too early to tell whether it has much impact.

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Speaker 3: A lot of these us that are committing offenses are

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Speaker 3: groups of youths. It's not the norm that there's ring

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Speaker 3: leaders attached to that. But we have apprehended and charged

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Speaker 3: people under that new legislation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Now when we talk you know, I guess

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Speaker 1: this is across the board. When we talk about some

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Speaker 1: of this property crime and the offending that we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: in some cases it may not be regarded, as you know,

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Speaker 1: as the more serious on the scale. If you're talking

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Speaker 1: about somebody throwing the brick through the window, let's say,

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Speaker 1: at a restaurant, then getting inside and you know, running

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Speaker 1: away with the with the donations that are there sitting

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Speaker 1: on the descore, or getting into the till and stealing

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Speaker 1: a small amount of money. Some of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about may not be huge when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the scale of offending, but I guess for

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Speaker 1: the business that's on the receiving end, or for the

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Speaker 1: family that time has been broken into on the receiving end,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty frightening scenario and situation to be in.

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Speaker 2: But are we seeing around the territory at the moment.

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Speaker 1: An issue with young people engaged in pretty bad behavior.

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Speaker 1: You know, in some situations cars stolen and then out

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Speaker 1: on the streets at night, potentially putting themselves in extreme

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Speaker 1: danger and those in the community, and then obviously those

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Speaker 1: situations that may be seen as as a bit more

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Speaker 1: minor but still really ordinary stuff that the community is

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Speaker 1: going through. Are we seeing more and more kids on

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Speaker 1: the street at the moment doing that kind of stuff?

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Speaker 4: I'll take that one, Katie.

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Speaker 5: First of all, absolutely, for the victims, to them, it's

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Speaker 5: not minor. So this is their homes, this is their

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Speaker 5: businesses that they work hard for, so nothing about that's

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Speaker 5: mine that they're affected by these crimes. And secondly, so

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Speaker 5: to that point, in September, this is a good example.

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Speaker 5: We had four nine year olds committing unlawful entry and

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Speaker 5: the first thing that I asked of the investigators was

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Speaker 5: do we have missing person reports or anything in regards

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Speaker 5: to their welfare? And there was nobody looking for four

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Speaker 5: nine year olds late at night. So to me, that's

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Speaker 5: a huge concern. How can four nine year olds be

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Speaker 5: out committing offenses and there's nobody looking for them. Well,

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Speaker 5: I remember when my children are nine years old, if

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Speaker 5: they're missing for ten minutes, that would have I would

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Speaker 5: have panicked.

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Speaker 4: Four nine year.

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Speaker 1: Olds my kids are. One of my children is about

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Speaker 1: that age. So for me, I find that quite mortifying.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about these four nine year olds being

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Speaker 1: out on the street, what kind of incidents involved?

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Speaker 4: So an un lawful entry in our springs?

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Speaker 2: In our springs, what was the outcome there? Where were

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Speaker 2: their parents?

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Speaker 4: So the parents were at home.

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Speaker 5: Obviously we make our notifications in regards to the welfare

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Speaker 5: of the children, but just the fact that they're out,

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Speaker 5: they're engaged in that behavior, is just very concerning the

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Speaker 5: safety of the youths. As you said before, they're in

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Speaker 5: stolen cars, so they become a risk to themselves, they

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Speaker 5: become a risk to the community. You know, I've been

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Speaker 5: asked many times about youths and custody. But you know,

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Speaker 5: my answer sometimes is that's the safest place for them

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Speaker 5: to be rather than engaging in these behaviors.

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Speaker 2: What is going on here? Like where are we?

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Speaker 1: Where is the system letting us down? Because to me,

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's nine year olds on the street

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Speaker 1: and then engaged in an unlawful entry is it beggars belief?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: Where where are things letting us down? Here?

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Speaker 5: With the fix needs to be police, it's gone too far.

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Speaker 5: It needs to be well before we get involved.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we talk about this very often.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, the police are out there as you've both pointed

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Speaker 1: out some of those different statistics, some of those different

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Speaker 1: incidents that you pulled out to, and the police out

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Speaker 1: there obviously trying to do their best to keep the

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Speaker 1: community safe. But I mean, do we need more happening?

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Speaker 1: You've just said we obviously need more happening before it

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Speaker 1: gets to that point. But is it other agencies? Is

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Speaker 1: it NGOs?

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Speaker 2: Like where.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Katie, there's a gap there. The police aren't the

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Speaker 3: answer to everything. Our detention centers are full where apprehending

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Speaker 3: offenders as crimes are committed, Our clear uprates are very high.

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Speaker 3: But as assistant Commissioner Laidler said, if it comes down

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Speaker 3: to the police to take action, something's gone wrong before

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Speaker 3: it gets to us. So there is a lot to

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Speaker 3: be done out there in that space. If our youth

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Speaker 3: detention facilities are full, our bail are supported, bail accommodation

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Speaker 3: places are full, there needs to be some family responsibility

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Speaker 3: for these youths as well. There is other agencies out

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Speaker 3: there that are delivering, but we say police are the

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Speaker 3: only one out there twenty four hours, seven days a

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Speaker 3: week responding to these matters.

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Speaker 1: In some of these situations, I would imagine, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of these kids are actually in the care of

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Speaker 1: territory families, and I know that there's probably a bit

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Speaker 1: that you guys can't say about that, But if you

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Speaker 1: know what happens if a child is in the care

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Speaker 1: of territory families, Police pick them up and they get

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Speaker 1: taken to wherever there's staying, Like, how are they then

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Speaker 1: able to sort of end up back on the straight.

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Speaker 3: It's a complicated issue, Katie. Let me just say some

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Speaker 3: of the youths potentially that we apprehend maybe yeah, but

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't go and generalize that that's the case. For

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Speaker 3: a great deal I'd avoid that greatly. It's complicated that

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Speaker 3: the us that we apprehend are subject to trauma. The

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Speaker 3: reason that some of them are in care are for

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Speaker 3: that reason. And it's a complicated, a very complicated process.

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Speaker 3: And the fact is, police custody is not the place

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Speaker 3: for these kids. It's not the place remand is not

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Speaker 3: the place for these kids. But it becomes an option

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Speaker 3: of last resort if they're out there still committing these offenses.

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Speaker 3: Where else is there and who else takes action? If

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Speaker 3: it's not the police on the street responding to these

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Speaker 3: matters and taking those children to a safe place, And

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Speaker 3: if that is custody, then unfortunately, that's the last resort, isn't.

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Speaker 4: It so well?

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Speaker 2: And you know, we've spoken about this before.

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Speaker 1: I remember Matt Hollanby was on the show quite some

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Speaker 1: time back, one of the commanders within the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police saying that, you know, sometimes taking kids home on

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Speaker 1: a number of occasions within one night and then the

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Speaker 1: mending up back.

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Speaker 2: On the street.

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Speaker 1: We'd even heard from one of our listeners a bit

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Speaker 1: earlier in the week who owns one of the stores

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Speaker 1: in the mall in the Darwin City Mall, and she'd

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Speaker 1: said that they had had a brick thrown through the

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Speaker 1: window I believe, or had their window broken. Her understanding

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Speaker 1: was saying that those youths had been taken home but

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Speaker 1: then ended up back in the city and broke into

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Speaker 1: another location. I don't know exactly, you know, how the

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Speaker 1: system is letting us down, and I know that it

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Speaker 1: is obviously very complex, but it does make me question

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Speaker 1: there is enough support from some of those other agencies,

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Speaker 1: or whether we need to be looking a little bit

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Speaker 1: more broadly at, you know, what is going on and

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Speaker 1: whether there needs to be for the support. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, is that something that you guys have sort

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Speaker 1: of thought about.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Assistant Commissioner Dolls, right, twenty four to seven, when

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Speaker 5: these offenses are happening, the ones you'll see on the

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Speaker 5: street is the police uniforms. You'll see us in cars,

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Speaker 5: on foot, drones, dogs, the whole lot.

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Speaker 4: But I think there needs to be a lot.

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Speaker 5: More out at those times, a lot more available to

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Speaker 5: deal with these children. Some of their home environments just

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Speaker 5: aren't safe, and we had some recent unlawful entries now

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Speaker 5: the springs at a tourist park where they just took.

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Speaker 4: A shower and went to sleep.

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Speaker 5: They weren't there to steal anything, So you've got to

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Speaker 5: question some of the home environments that they're subject to,

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Speaker 5: some of the violence, alcohol related harm, all very complex issues.

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Speaker 1: I know that quite often these discussions become very political,

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Speaker 1: and there is a lot of political debate around all

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Speaker 1: of the time, but at the moment, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of that political debate around the need for changes to

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Speaker 1: bail legislation. But is that I mean, is that bail legislation.

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Speaker 1: Does it make much of a difference for you guys

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Speaker 1: or has it made much of a difference with some

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Speaker 1: of those changes that have been implemented.

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Speaker 3: I think we probably both have some answers to that.

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Speaker 3: But can I just point out, Katie, we really want

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Speaker 3: to avoid politicizing the police force. The police are out

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Speaker 3: there successfully apprehending these people and using the tools that

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Speaker 3: are given to us. The police actively engaged with whatever

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Speaker 3: Parliament is in it the day to make changes to legislation,

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Speaker 3: and we work with what's given to us and we

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Speaker 3: make recommendations in relation to what's there. So I think

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Speaker 3: we really want to avoid talking about deficiencies for the

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Speaker 3: police from whatever government's in bar At the moment. What

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Speaker 3: we need is a bipartisan approach and stop using the

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Speaker 3: police as the I suppose as the political puppet and

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Speaker 3: referring to the police force when it comes to crime

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Speaker 3: statistics and trouble because we're out there every day making

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Speaker 3: a real difference.

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Speaker 2: And just want to get your jobs done.

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Speaker 1: By the sounds of it, I will, I mean, I know,

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Speaker 1: I certainly take that on board and take what you've said.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you know, when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: bailor like, are we seeing that with the bail legislation,

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Speaker 1: is there still an opportunity for kids who have broken

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Speaker 1: the law to sort of be let out on bail

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Speaker 1: or has it sort of has it changed to some degree?

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Speaker 3: Our youth attension facilities are full, Cadie. We're consistently apprehending

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Speaker 3: youth for serious breaches at bail. In that three month

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Speaker 3: period I talked about previously with the one hundred and

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Speaker 3: sixty seven youth apprehensions, sixty of those apprehensions were for

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Speaker 3: serious breaches a bail under the new bail legislation. So

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Speaker 3: we do have the tools there and we are using

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Speaker 3: those tools.

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Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what it is, certainly a you

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Speaker 1: know it's a tough discussion to have. I know that

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Speaker 1: it's tough for all of the agencies, and the police

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Speaker 1: do a lot to try and make sure that you're

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Speaker 1: keeping the community safe. One other thing I do want

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Speaker 1: to ask about, though, very quickly, is we know that

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Speaker 1: obviously the COVID response is quite a complex one.

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Speaker 2: I know that well.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that either of you are sort of

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Speaker 1: in charge of that COVID response, But I still want

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Speaker 1: to ask are the police going to be out there

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Speaker 1: doing some of those physical checks or has there been

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Speaker 1: much of a decision made at this point in time

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Speaker 1: how it's going to work.

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Speaker 3: Look, I don't have that specific information for you today.

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Speaker 3: I know there's a lot of work being done in

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Speaker 3: the planning for that under the COVID response led by

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Speaker 3: Assistant Comissioner Travis Worst, there is a lot of other

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Speaker 3: agencies that are involved in doing those checks and the

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Speaker 3: rollout and the enforcement and the checking on people in quarantine.

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Speaker 3: I can't answer specifically what level the police will have

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Speaker 3: in relation to that. We certainly will have some involvement,

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Speaker 3: that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, I really appreciate both of you coming in this

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Speaker 1: morning and having a bit further discussion with us about

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Speaker 1: some of the issues that we are seeing around the place.

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Speaker 1: Assistant Commissioner of Darwin or Greater Darwin and Road Policing,

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Speaker 1: Martin Dole, thank you very much for your time. And

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Speaker 1: Assistant Commissioner Craig Ladler, Regional Remote Policing. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning as well.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Tonie