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Speaker 1: Yesterday saw the commencement of the coronial inquest into the

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Speaker 1: tragic death of Senior Constable Michael Mickey d Dutromp. The

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association say Michael was more than just

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Speaker 1: a police officer. He was a friend, a mentor and

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Speaker 1: a deeply respected member of the Northern Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 1: His sudden loss continues to be felt profoundly by his colleagues,

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Speaker 1: his friends, and the broader policing community. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio is the President of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Association, Nathan Finn. Good morning, Finny, Good morning Katy,

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Speaker 1: and good morning to your listeners. Finny, what is the

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Speaker 1: aim of the inquest?

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Speaker 2: Aim the inquests to obviously look at the circumstances that

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Speaker 2: led to his death, how that came about, the acumulative

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Speaker 2: effect that these types of traumas have on members that

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Speaker 2: leads them to suicide. On this occasion, this was a

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Speaker 2: very difficult time for our Northern Territory Police Force going

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Speaker 2: back a couple of years now, but there was four

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Speaker 2: suicides in the matter of three months for our members.

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Speaker 2: Tough time. All we want and all our members want,

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Speaker 2: is answers and to show the real cumulative effect that

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Speaker 2: these traumas have that we go to day and day out,

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Speaker 2: our members think nothing of, have a profound effect on

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Speaker 2: our members, both now and into the future. And when

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Speaker 2: they're trying to serve, any little thing can flame something up.

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Speaker 2: It may be something that you don't think of for

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Speaker 2: ten years time and fifteen years time. It's just the

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Speaker 2: cumulative effect that it has and continues to have. We're

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Speaker 2: looking at things that look back twenty years ago when

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Speaker 2: he first joined. There's a number of factors that lead

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Speaker 2: to this situation. But my thing is, Katie, is that

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Speaker 2: we need to get to the bottom of it. We

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Speaker 2: need to know why the circumstances which led to his death,

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Speaker 2: which felt like he didn't have the support that he

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Speaker 2: needed to go on. We also need to make sure

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Speaker 2: that this doesn't happen again. I know that's easy to say.

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Speaker 2: It's a complex matter, it's a complex PTSD traumatic events

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Speaker 2: and that police are still going to have to go

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Speaker 2: to them, and we need to work out a way

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Speaker 2: of how we can manage our staff and making sure

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Speaker 2: they're supported in doing what they need to do. Katie,

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Speaker 2: and it really hits home. It's hit home for a

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Speaker 2: lot of our members in the police force. It hits home,

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Speaker 2: especially for our office who are obviously representing the Dutrim

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Speaker 2: family at this coronial inquest, but also for his colleagues

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Speaker 2: that have worked with him over that many many years.

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Speaker 2: This fellow was a genuine fellow that would give you

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Speaker 2: a close off his back if he could. He would

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Speaker 2: do anything to help those fellow members, and unfortunately he

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Speaker 2: felt that he'd let himself down and felt that there

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Speaker 2: was no other alternaty to do what he'd done. But

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Speaker 2: our members are struggling, our colleagues are stragling at this

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Speaker 2: difficult time. But more though, we want answers, We want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that these guys are supported going forward.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and Finny, I can hear the emotion in your

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Speaker 1: voice as you speak, because he was absolutely loved, a

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Speaker 1: love member of the police force. But also I think

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Speaker 1: it's a really important time for all of us within

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory community as well to really sort of

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Speaker 1: reflect on the work that the Northern Territory Police do

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Speaker 1: and the fact that officers every single day are going

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Speaker 1: out to different incidents, not only where they're in harm's way,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we're they're out to fatalities and they're

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Speaker 1: heading out to different incidents where people are severely injured.

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Speaker 1: And here in the NT there's not six degrees of separation,

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Speaker 1: there's none, you know, see going out to these traumas

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Speaker 1: and you're not knowing who you're going to see or

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Speaker 1: whether it's somebody's family member or someone's friend.

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Speaker 2: No, And that's the difficult our police officers have you

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Speaker 2: in all the church because it is a small population,

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Speaker 2: we obviously know the family who we're dealing with, or

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Speaker 2: know the person personally who we're dealing with. And that's

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Speaker 2: very hard to deal with and very hard to come

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Speaker 2: home and actually switch off after a day like that,

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Speaker 2: the traumatic events that you see, the traumatic events you

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Speaker 2: deal with, it's very hard to switch off. Now a

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Speaker 2: lot of our members are carrying PTSD from the incidents

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Speaker 2: they attend day in day out. Unfortunately, we haven't got

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Speaker 2: the ability to run away from dangerous events where the

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Speaker 2: members that are running towards that dangerous events, and that

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Speaker 2: takes a toll on its members and we need to

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Speaker 2: high like that that we are and we do suffer

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Speaker 2: damage both mentally and physically from the role which we do.

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Speaker 1: Finny in terms of I mean you touched on this.

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Speaker 1: She said, it's going to look into systems around our

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Speaker 1: police and how they can or how there could be

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Speaker 1: better support. I mean, is there enough support within the

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Speaker 1: force at the moment for those that are suffering from

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Speaker 1: PTSD or mental health issues?

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Speaker 2: Katie always asks, there is never enough you can possibly do.

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Speaker 2: There's always a situation which will come up which is

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Speaker 2: not covered by a manual, not covered by a policy.

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Speaker 2: Members feel that they're not supported. If they feel they're

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Speaker 2: not supported, that's where the issue is. We need to

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Speaker 2: make sure that those services are available to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we're a police forces. They're burnt out, they're struggling,

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Speaker 2: They're struggling to keep up with the demand and the

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Speaker 2: pressures that are placing on both only them at work

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Speaker 2: and also their personal lives as well when they're continually

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Speaker 2: asked to do more with less. That's where our members

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Speaker 2: are struggling, and it's it's the moral injuries that they

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Speaker 2: want to do the best they possibly can for our

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Speaker 2: community with the limited possible resources they've got.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, how is the morale within the force,

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Speaker 1: Because I think that point that you've just touched on

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Speaker 1: right that you know, officers are having to do more

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Speaker 1: with less, but they're also being called out to more

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Speaker 1: crime than ever before. You know, our crime rates are

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Speaker 1: so incredibly high. We know that there are so many

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Speaker 1: issues being experienced now. Certainly on this show, we appreciate

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Speaker 1: the work of our Northern Territory Police Force. We talk

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Speaker 1: about it almost daily because if the cops aren't going

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Speaker 1: there to those incidents, a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Their community are very supportive of police. Yes, there are

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Speaker 2: times where people, quite rightfully, we get criticized because of

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Speaker 2: we call the police and then they don't come. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: they would love to come. I can guarantee that it

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Speaker 2: drives them absolutely crazy when they can't get to help

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Speaker 2: the members of the public because that's what they do.

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Speaker 2: They coming to make a difference and make us serve

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Speaker 2: the community and to make sure you're safe and well.

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Speaker 1: Mate. How like, what are you really hoping comes from

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Speaker 1: this coronial?

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Speaker 2: It's coming so far through Obviously day one yesterday we've

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Speaker 2: seen some highlights of remote staffing and the issues we

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Speaker 2: have with remote staffing. We discussed yesterday about a position

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Speaker 2: where one of the members was left for thirty five

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Speaker 2: days at one of the remote stations. By herself at

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Speaker 2: one of our most remote, isolated police stations in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory. This is the evidence that's been given at

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Speaker 2: the moment, and this is shocking. This is shocking to

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Speaker 2: our members know this is happening. They are asking for relief,

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Speaker 2: they are asking for staff, they're getting told continually no

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Speaker 2: and not getting that support they need. Remote is very hard.

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Speaker 2: It's a very isolated place. You are on call, technically

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Speaker 2: on call, even though they say they don't pay it,

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Speaker 2: on call allowance and everything else. The members are on call.

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Speaker 2: They're at the beck and call of the community that

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Speaker 2: they serve, and they want to make a difference in

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Speaker 2: that community. That's why they're there. That's why they want

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Speaker 2: to be there to serve. But it's overwhelming. It is

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Speaker 2: frustrating the level of crime that we see, not only

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Speaker 2: in these communities, also across the major centers and regional

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Speaker 2: centers as well as the Northern Territory. Our members can't

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Speaker 2: keep up, and they've been telling that for a long time,

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Speaker 2: and this highlights the reasons why we can't keep up

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Speaker 2: and highlight the dangers that the faces that were their

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Speaker 2: police officers when they can't and they feel.

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Speaker 1: Helpless, Finny, I mean to any of those officers listening

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Speaker 1: this morning who may need some additional support, I mean,

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Speaker 1: can they reach out to the association.

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Speaker 2: Association. There's also employee support services through the Northern Churchy

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Speaker 2: Police Force. There's psychiatric professional advice of well, there's also

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Speaker 2: obviously peer support offices as well. But my main thing

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Speaker 2: is if you are struggling, speak up. It's okay not

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Speaker 2: to be okay, and I passed that on to a

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Speaker 2: lot of our members whenever I speak to them, it's

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Speaker 2: okay seek advice. Someone's been through the similar position what

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Speaker 2: you're going through, and they'll have an understanding of what

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Speaker 2: you're going through. So the main thing is speak out,

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Speaker 2: reach out for help. We're all here to help. We're

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Speaker 2: a brotherhood, we're a sisterhood. We're a tight family. The

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Speaker 2: Blue Family is there to support you and make sure

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Speaker 2: you do please.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic advice, I think, Phinny, really good advice to anybody

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Speaker 1: out there listening this morning. Before I let you go,

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Speaker 1: and I know it is such a tough time at

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Speaker 1: the moment for the force, but before I let you go,

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Speaker 1: we have been speaking a lot about some of the

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Speaker 1: increased crime in Catherine and in Alice Springs. At the moment,

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Speaker 1: I know it's not isolated even for us up here

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Speaker 1: in Darwin. It's something we've been talking about make water

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Speaker 1: officers telling you at the moment, the.

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Speaker 2: Officers are telling us that there is an increase in

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Speaker 2: population into our regional centers. This is nothing unusual, Cadie.

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Speaker 2: We see that this time of the year, our communities

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Speaker 2: come into town more than around with the show circuits

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Speaker 2: come into town. There's obviously shopping, there's obviously royalties that

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Speaker 2: come in this time of the year. For our remote communities,

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Speaker 2: they come into for extended periods and which puts extra

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Speaker 2: pressure on the resources we've got in those major centers. Again,

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Speaker 2: it's a bit of a respite for our officers that

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Speaker 2: work in the remote community. But unfortunately our remote communities

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Speaker 2: are heavily understaffed at the moment, so they're getting a

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Speaker 2: reprieve with the extra population leaving those communities, but also

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Speaker 2: places extra burden on our members within those regional centers.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of this discussion? And we just

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Speaker 1: spoke to the opposition leader Selena Yubo about this about

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Speaker 1: the potential of the BDR being introduced into licensed venues,

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Speaker 1: so not just take away out let's, but license venues

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: I've yeah again, Katie, this is something we've requested for

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Speaker 2: a long time. There's a bit of a sort of

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Speaker 2: a loophole where they can't buy takeaway and they prefer

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Speaker 2: to drink in the street where they're going to licensed

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Speaker 2: premises where they can consume an inordinate amount of alcohol,

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Speaker 2: become intoxicatd then create the same scenario. I know, it's

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Speaker 2: supposed to be a much more controlled environment. We applaud

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Speaker 2: any restrictions that can be placed. We see alcohol fuel violence.

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Speaker 2: Alcohol fuel violence is one of the biggest key indicators

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Speaker 2: of crime right across the Northern Territory and our members

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Speaker 2: get quite frankly sick of it, dealing with intoxicated people left,

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Speaker 2: right and cent. If that wasn't there, and we've seen

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Speaker 2: that during other times when alcohol is not available, the

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Speaker 2: downturn in police response jobs is huge, and we notice

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Speaker 2: that our members notice that and they applaud any implications

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Speaker 2: of alcohol restrictions put in place.

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Speaker 1: Well. Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning. I can see

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Speaker 1: you know, I can see the emotion in you today.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a tough time for you guys

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Speaker 1: with this coronial. I'm thinking of everybody involved, particularly Mickey

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Speaker 1: D's family, friends, all of you guys. So thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for joining us this morning. It's much appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katti, and obviously as just before we go,

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Speaker 2: thank you to the men and women. It's a very

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Speaker 2: tough week for a lot of us involved going through

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Speaker 2: the evidence, listening to the evidence involved. All I can

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Speaker 2: say is look after each other. We're there for each other,

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Speaker 2: We're there for Meggy D and to make sure there's

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Speaker 2: answers being made and people are held accountable for those decisions.

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Speaker 1: Good on your finny. Thank you mate, I appreciate your

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Speaker 1: time as always,