1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work day. This episode is 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: another my favorite Tip episode. The title is probably pretty 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from each of 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: the interviews I conduct. I use this format because I 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: sometimes feel myself as a podcast listener that I just 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: want to get in, get the most amount of value 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: from an episode, and then get out. So in this format, 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: that's exactly what I do. My guest today is Nancy Duarte, 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: who is pretty much the world expert on designing and 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: delivering presentations. Nancy's firm Duarte is the largest design firm 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and they help very big and famous 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: companies and people from Apple through to Al Gore design 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: and deliver a great present. Nazi's also written several books 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: about storytelling and presentations, including the Harvard Business Review Guide 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: to Creating Persuasive Presentations. So given, Nanzi is the world 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: expert on this topic. In this clip, I want to 21 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: share with you Nanzi's response when I asked her about 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: her process for writing and delivering presentations. So in that 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: note over to Nanzy. 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,279 Speaker 2: So sometimes sometimes I have a deck already in the can, 25 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: and I've maybe already delivered it one hundred times. But 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: what happens is I get kind of bored with the 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: same thing over and over. But I also know that 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: no audience is the same. So no matter what I 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: tweak it, if it's more analytical kind of audience, I 30 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 2: put different things in. Then if it's more an emotional audience, 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: or if it's a female audience, I have different margules. 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: I can move around if it's new, if it has 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: to be kind of half fifty percent new or nuanced 34 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: in a bigger way, my assistant schedules it out, so 35 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: I'll when I accept it, and I'll tell her how 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: long I need blocked, so and she knows to ask 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: if I don't, I'll say I need two ninety minutes 38 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: sections blocked. I need this, and no matter what comes up, 39 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: those don't get moved. Like my working session. She finds 40 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: new space for it if it has to get moved, 41 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: but it really gets moved. If I speak to it. 42 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 2: So if I commit to a speaking gig and I 43 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: know it's new, I realize that there's a whole lot 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: of other opportunities that are going to come up where 45 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: I wish I had that ninety minutes back. So it 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 2: has to be worth it to me to put that 47 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: kind of effort in. I just finished one to a 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: major venture capitalist, and I spent two ninety minutes, which 49 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: isn't that much my data story one, when I'm done 50 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: with this course, that keynote's probably going to take me 51 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: about twenty five hours to really get done. Then if 52 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: it's new new, which is a very different process than 53 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 2: riffing on an old one. So if it's new new, 54 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 2: I take a first path. Now, someone in the whole 55 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: world thinks I'm a presentation designer because they keep putting 56 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: that up on Wikipedia, and I pay some to keep 57 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: taking it down. So I'm not a presentation designer. So 58 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: I do very crude concepts. Some of them I have 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: to sketch by hand, and because I don't know how 60 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: to make a loop, you know, I sketch it my hand, 61 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: scan it in, put it on the slides, and then 62 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: I have a designer actually create my deck. So a 63 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: new talk might take up to forty hours forty sixty hours, 64 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: but I pace myself. I do that instead of writing 65 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: in the morning, I would make my deck in the 66 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 2: mornings and then I hand it off to design and 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: then to get ready. If I know the material, I 68 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: don't get nervous. My ritual is to just if there's 69 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 2: a green room and I'm alone, I'm okay. If there's 70 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: a green room and there's a bunch of yappy people 71 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: in there, I have to breathe slow. I have to 72 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: be quiet. I think through my visualize my slides. I 73 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: have to be quiet, visualize myself on the stage. And 74 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: then I was going to do a piece on what 75 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: well that's weird. I'm kind of quiet and inbound, right 76 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: or in So I asked there's a private Facebook group 77 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: with a bunch of public speakers, and I'm like, well, 78 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: what's your pre talk ritual? And it was mostly dudes. 79 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: They're like, I put on like led Zeppelin and I 80 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: head bang and I do this, I jump around, do 81 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: this and you know, real like kind of chest beady stuff. 82 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: What am I doing? I should be doing Amy Cuddy's 83 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: power poses. I should be doing that, right? Why am 84 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: I not doing that. So I was doing this like 85 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 2: arm stretches just before I go on stage to a 86 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: squad do a little jump. And what happened was, for 87 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 2: about the first twenty minutes of my talks, I couldn't 88 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: catch my breath. I wasn't doing anything super aerobic. But 89 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: two people that heard me three actually two were local 90 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: and one was in Boston. They thought I was ill. 91 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: They asked me if I was sick. Yeah, and I 92 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 2: was just trying to get all amped up. So I 93 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 2: went back to my just sit quiet because I already 94 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: have a ton of energy, a ton of energy, and 95 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: I think that if I do anything stretchy or wasn't 96 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: like I was spazzing out, but I would just stretch 97 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 2: or do something a little more active right before locked 98 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: off stage and I stopped no more. So I didn't 99 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: know the material, Well, I don't get nervous, but if 100 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: I don't know the material, well I'm really nervous. And 101 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: I practice, but I have to weigh calm myself down. 102 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: My heart races and I have to just get my 103 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: heart to calm down, so I do. I hope that that. 104 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: Was a fascinating insight, and gosh, I think it's so 105 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 3: much about you know, what works for you. Yeah, I've 106 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: definitely heard about a lot of kind of the sort 107 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: of typical male motivational hype speaker, you know, listening to 108 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 3: the theme from Rocky before they go on and things 109 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: like that. 110 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 2: It's a lot of people. I mean, the guys were like, 111 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: oh and they have like what was weird is the 112 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: guys answered in a multi step process. It was like, 113 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: in my room, I do this, and then I checked 114 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: my teeth, and then I jump jump jump, or I 115 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,119 Speaker 2: listened to this music while I walked to the venue 116 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: like it was really funny, and then I checked my zipper. 117 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: It's just really awesome. 118 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 2: And it was like exactly in those steps every time, 119 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: because that's their lucky sequence or whatever. I'm like, wow, 120 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: I'm not as into this. 121 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: Clearly, Hello, it's me again. So something that really struck 122 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: me about Nancy's description is how long how much time 123 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: goes into creating a presentation from scratch. Nancy said it 124 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: would be around forty to sixty hours. And I know 125 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: I can definitely relate to this in my own life 126 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: when I'm starting a presentation from scratch, But when I 127 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: think about most presentations, I see at conferences that you know, 128 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: to be honest, they're pretty underwhelming, and I often wonder 129 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: how much or how little work actually went into it. 130 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,119 Speaker 1: It often looks like they quickly put together a slide 131 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: deck with a whole bunch of words that essentially functions 132 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: as their script, and then they're just kind of. 133 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 3: Going through their script. 134 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: And often, you know, really I find a lot of 135 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: speakers they're just wasting everyone's time, And particularly for the 136 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: bigger conferences where you have say, five hundred plus people 137 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 1: in the room. And if you were to to play 138 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: out every audience member's hourly rate from their salary sitting 139 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: through a presentation that adds no value or doesn't change behavior, 140 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that is the biggest waste of money ever. 141 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: But I feel like people don't think about it this way. 142 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: So I'm curious for you listening to this episode, is 143 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: delivering presentations something that you do? And would you change 144 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: the way you think about preparing and polishing a presentation 145 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: if you were to multiply out the cost of people 146 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: sitting in a room and listening to you, I personally 147 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: think it's an interesting thing to do. 148 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 3: So that is it for today. 149 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: If you like this excerpt. You might want to listen 150 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: to my full chat with Nancy, which I link to 151 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: in the show notes. And if you're enjoying how I work, 152 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: I would love it if you could take five seconds 153 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: right now to leave a review an Apple Podcasts or 154 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to this episode. Every review just brings 155 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 1: a huge smile to my face, and it's wonderful getting 156 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: feedback from listeners like yourself. So that's it for today 157 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.