1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: We know that cost of living relief is on the 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: way for millions of Australians with the federal government moving 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: to slash the cost of prescription medicines. So the Health 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Minister Mark Butler made this announcement earlier this week, saying 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: a person can double the amount of medicine they can 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: collect on a single script from one month's supply to 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: two months. The reform is going to be included in 8 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: next month's budget, but it is going to affect prescriptions 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: for around three hundred and twenty products treating chronic conditions 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: such as cholesterol, heart disease and hypertension. But pharmacists are 11 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: a bit concerned. They're race concerned, saying that the change 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: does little to address a major shortage of medicines. And 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: joining me on the line right now from the Pharmacy 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: Guild of the Northern Territory, it is Peter Hatswell. Good 15 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: morning to you, Peter, Good morning Katy, Thanks so much 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: for your time this morning. Peter. What are these changes 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: going to mean for Territorians from your perspective, Well. 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: Space is going to mean on the outset it looks 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: pretty good in that that brings down the cost of 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: medication for those for those three hundred and twenty that 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: are listed at assuming the doctor sees its appropriate, then 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: they will drop by around about half because instead of 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: getting one box or something every month, you'll get two 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: boxes every two months. So initially it looks good, but 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: it does come at a cost, and the cost is 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: to pharmacy. Now that the money that is saved by 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: the patient is only half of what the government saves 28 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: in this process too, and so the overall effect of 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 2: pharmacies is a loss of income three times that amount 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: and can be quite devastating. And we'll get into the 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 2: effect on supply chain as well. 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: So you talk me through ferously. I guess the you 33 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: know what it's going to mean to those pharmacies, particularly 34 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: like you've got a lot of you know, mum and 35 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: dad style pharmacies. I guess at different locations around the Northern. 36 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: Territory exactly, there's an awful lot of Australia wide. The 37 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: one that there's a lot of smaller pharmacies, the ones 38 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: that are very patient focused and you know, have spent 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: a long time and you know and even have handed 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: it down or at least got in partners that have 41 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 2: taken on the reins of these smaller pharmacies and there 42 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: they're there for the community as part of the community, 43 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: and they are going to be drastically affected by these changes. 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: Now, then talk me through the shortages, because that's been 45 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: another big issue that's been raised. What kind of shortages 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: are we talking. 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: At the moment. I think they have about four hundred 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: medications that are listed on the TGA website as been 49 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: in that are unavailable or very short supply. That's going 50 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: to increase with these changes, at least initially. We're going 51 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: to see a kind of dramatic increase in volumes as 52 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: people go from the one month to two months, and 53 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: that will a lot more shortages because there just isn't 54 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: that much stock in sort of in storage that can 55 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: take up the sort of the slack for those increases 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: in volume. So we're going to see a lot more shortages. 57 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: And I think that most people that are on these 58 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: chronic means have probably encountered times when they can't get 59 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: what they want straight away. But pharmacists have done a 60 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: wonderful job of I guess, protecting and you know, handling 61 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: these shortages and making sure that we get them as 62 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: much as possible. But I think that that's going to 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: be impossible to protect the people from these shortages, and 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: they're going to go on for some time. And I'll 65 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: explain why as well. The way. You know, look, it's 66 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: human nature. It is uncertainty about your supply, then you're 67 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: going to do what you can to protect yourself to 68 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: from running out, particularly with these sort of chronic meds 69 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: that are life So people are going to try and 70 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: get extra where they can, and you know, with the 71 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: idea that it's now half priced, they're going to see 72 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: that as a huge intentive to try and stock up, 73 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: and that is going to make the problem that much worse. 74 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: Now, Peter, obviously you've raised those concerns. In the long 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: run though, do you think it is going to be 76 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: more convenient to territorians or do you think that it 77 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: could be a good thing in the long run. 78 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: But I think that well as far as the stock shortages, 79 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: I believe that it will settle down and at least 80 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: it will go to whatever the stock shortages currently are, 81 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: so that if we have stock shortages that have nothing 82 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: to do with volume, that's the way I'll end up being. 83 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: So we'll certainly have issues, but not related to the 84 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: sixty day. In the long term, I think that certainly, 85 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 2: you know, there's that saving for people, but at what cost. 86 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: You know, it could well be a sort of false 87 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: economy if the pharmacy sector loses three point five billion 88 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: dollars over the next four years, and then that triggers 89 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of measures within pharmacy that are again, 90 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: you know, that don't work in the public interest. In 91 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 2: order to survive well, people are going to end up 92 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 2: having to spend more, either in time or money or 93 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 2: both in trying to fulfill their needs or get care 94 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 2: when they need it. You know, the pharmacy has always 95 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: been the place where you can be assured of catching 96 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: someone's attention that's a medical professional and find out some information. 97 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: But if a pharmacy, in order to cover those losses, 98 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: as to shorten their hours so they can't open Sundays anymore, 99 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: or their late night opening hours, and now you know, 100 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: they were terribly viable before and now that they're definitely 101 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: not viable, then those pharmacies will have to close their 102 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: doors and those people who turn up at those times 103 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: won't be able to get that advice, and they might 104 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: end up, you know, in accident. Emergency or having to 105 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: drive around looking for another pharmacy and the cost and 106 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: time associated with that, and it could come out badly, 107 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: you know, in that kind of thing, and even the 108 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 2: medication shortages if they go to get something in the pharmacists, 109 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry, we have none. We don't know when 110 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: we're going to get it, which is going to have 111 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 2: to go around and look for it. So at least 112 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: during the first you know, however long it takes the 113 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: settle and it could be a month, it could be 114 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: six months, it could be years before it settles down, 115 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: and in the meantime you're looking around for that alternate 116 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: supply or back in your gp GP's office, you know, 117 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: and whatever that cost, you know, because that's more than 118 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: the populing rate now for most officers, and paying out 119 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: forty dollars for a visit, well there goes all your 120 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: savings right there. So you know, is this really a 121 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: step forward or is it, you know, just trading fixing 122 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: up one proby to trade it for another. 123 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: Well, you've certainly given us something to think about there. Now. 124 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: I do want to just ask you very quickly, is 125 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: there how is the uptake of the flu going at 126 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: this point? 127 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: In time. 128 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: We know that it is sort of peak flu season 129 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: for the flu and many have been feeling quite ill. 130 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: I guess of late we've spoken to the Health Department 131 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: as well about those flu numbers already for this year. 132 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: How are things going in terms of people taking up 133 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: the flu vaccine. 134 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 2: It is certainly it's getting better. I think it could 135 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: be yet better. Again, I think that there's a lot 136 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: of people that hearts feel ambivalent or not sure about 137 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: whether they really need one, but rest assured that the 138 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: flu is an issue and anybody who is vulnerable has 139 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: comorbid it is they should really think about getting into 140 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: their pharmacy and getting that flu vaccination as soon as possible. 141 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: Well, Peter Hatswell, the branch president for the Northern Territory 142 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: Pharmacy Guild, I really appreciate you having a chat with 143 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: us this morning and just raising those concerns. Like I said, 144 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: I think it gives people a little bit more to 145 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: think about when it comes to these script changes. 146 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much. 147 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: Thank you.