WEBVTT - A Connection to the Outside World 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.000 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.400 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.040 It was absolutely shambles, to tell you the truth. Just 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:12.160 actually really put his. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.240 Blood on who's clothing. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:14.840 The day after the alleged a tour. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:16.880 Nashelle mud Bank and it fits through river. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.200 Basically, I think most of the people are used to me. 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.320 Are good people. I think a really important question we 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.720 need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:26.279 are innocent. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.800 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.360 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.160 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.520 Amy Maguire and. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.040 I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:46.400 Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.760 of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:51.599 some listeners. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.640 Welcome to episode twenty of Curtain the podcast. As you 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.280 may have seen over the last week, the media is 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.880 finally taking an interest in the case of Kevin Henry 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.240 and starting to ask the questions that should have been 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.560 asked twenty five years ago. But this week we want 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:18.119 to continue our look at the life of Kevin Curtin Henry. Again, 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.480 we're going to be interviewing those that know Kevin best. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.440 In this episode, Amy sits down with Yasmin Johnson and 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:32.600 her daughter Yalila. Yasmin has been absolutely crucial in keeping 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.440 the story of Kevin Henry alive. Yasmin has been Kevin's 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:42.240 voice on the outside, and without Yasmin, it's very likely 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.360 you would not be hearing this podcast today. Kevin Henry 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.680 may very well be lost to the system if it 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.280 wasn't for the more than a decade's work Yasmin has 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.960 done to ensure that justice can be done for Kevin. 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.520 She's been relentlessly for Kevin and has been the single 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.600 voice who's stuck by Kevin's side throughout this ordeal. Sitting 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:12.640 down with Amy, Yasmin and Yalila is Auntie awa Orderton. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.240 She's named Kevin his entire life, from the time he 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.119 was a little boy in the Aboriginal community of Wuribinda 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:27.040 to the fateful day Kevin Henry was arrested in Rockhampton, Queensland. 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.720 This week, Amy sat down with these three strong Aboriginal 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:36.280 women who span the generations, but what they have in 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.520 common is a commitment to Kevin Henry and an absolute 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.919 belief in his innocence. That's because they've seen what's happened 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.240 at every step of the way of this case. As 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:53.400 Amy interviews Yasmin Awa and Yalila, you may notice that 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.800 you hear a whipper snipper in the background, some plates moving, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.720 and even a baby cry. That's because when someone's in 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.720 prison for twenty five years, the fight to free them 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:12.320 is endless. Life simply can't stop. So those who have 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.880 supported Kevin use every spare hour they have to do 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.480 what they can. So while that might slightly interfere with 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:25.800 the audio quality, it's nothing on the huge disruption, torment, 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.480 and stress that it's had on these three amazing women's 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.720 lives as they battle for Kevin Henry's freedom. Here's Amy 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.200 first speaking with Yasmin. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:37.240 Can I start with you? 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.200 When did you first find out about Kevin's case? So 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.640 when did you first hear the name Kevin Henry? 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:51.520 Older cousin was locked up at the Creek Prison and 0:03:53.800 --> 0:04:00.400 his partner then or staying with me, and they was 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.800 in the same the art Kevin and my cousin Mervin 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:10.000 and he they they used to just get on the 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.160 phone and talk say later people, and oh you know 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.520 so and so she sort of stories that way, you know, 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.680 blackfellows do. Let's someone say, you know whatever. We started 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:24.159 sort of talking like that, and Mervin's partner is Kevin's cousin, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.880 and she started talking about what had to happen back 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.159 down at Nuba House. You know, she was you know, 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.760 also showed that anger for him being locked up for 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.520 these crimes. And I said why what happened? And then 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.840 this sort of went from there really and then yeah, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.000 and so Kevin's sort of arked because my dad was 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.320 with at sick. Then Peter Savage, he was on the 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.080 ACCID council here, and he asks Mervin about, oh, can 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.720 can he help me in any way? You know? Can 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.880 then Mob and Rocky help me looking for you know, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.480 our representation here and Rocky sort of have a look 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.480 at his case and can we do something about it? 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.640 And I suppose asked me and I went to Dad 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.039 and he said, yeah, I can have a talk to 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.880 you know, the council and see what we can do. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:18.279 And it took a while, but yeah, I think it 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.760 was that Michael White, he was a chair. Then that's 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.640 the regional council. Dad was a part of that board 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.800 and the council, and we sort of went from there 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:35.159 and I think that went on for about probably twelve months. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.400 Then I started going down to the four Years Radio station. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.800 One of the workers down there said, come and use 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.719 the station to do whatever you want because our brother 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.839 needs help. One person who was running the station, he said, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:56.080 come and use the doors open, do use whatever you 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.000 want to use, you know. So I started sort of 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.320 talking on radio through Talk Black Radio with Greg Reid, 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:06.240 Mama Vipra and getting on their sort of most mornings 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.400 and just talking about this injustice and what had happened 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.520 to Kevin Henry. How far How long ago was that 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:19.400 two thousand and two? I think I started that just 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.000 sort of talking. But when I started getting getting on 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:27.839 radio and talking to media was two thousand and five. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.120 Because I read the transcripts, done all the homework with 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.479 other people in the community, most of them witnesses that 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.560 have passed on today, they were all alive back then, 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.840 and actually spoke to them and they just like you're 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.479 looking at them, and talked to them. They go like 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.400 you could see that they were sorry, that they were confused. 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:54.080 The look in their face was like, you know, I 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.800 should have said the right thing. Some of them wuldn't 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:58.480 even look at you. It was just the look of 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:04.880 guilt sort of gave them the opportunity to talk and 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.080 stuff like that. Some were just straight out didn't want 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.720 to say anything, but others where you could see it 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.920 was just yeah, when. 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.040 They started to realize that there had been an injustice done. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.640 Transcripts because we know our mob, how our mob talk, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.800 and when you read the transcripts and the comments and 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.360 you know, they were different to what they said the 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.640 other day or last week or when they were in 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.800 the cop shop and all this, it just didn't I'm like, 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:38.000 I'm walking past these people every day. These you know, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.160 these bully men made a fool out of our mob. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.880 That's how I've seen it. They took advantage of the 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:48.160 whole situation, all these mob involved in this case. It's 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.200 just like a big laughing stock. You know, it was wrong. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:56.640 So me coming from a radical family, having radical black parents, 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.640 it just and knowing care it building that relationship with 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:06.040 him and having you know, prisoners come in and out 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:07.840 and saying, you know, what you're doing is good, that 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.600 we believe in him. This went on for ten years. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:12.880 It just sort of it pushed me all the way 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.800 and then I had other people jumping on board. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.560 So, yeah, when you first started talking to Kevin, what 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:20.040 sort of person was he? 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:20.760 Like? 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.120 Like, what was your impression of him? 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:28.880 He was calm, nice, gentlemen, respectful, you know, it was hello, 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.760 good morning or whatever. You know, there was there were 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:37.280 times when he was stressed out about things. I think 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.679 when the new that bit of new evidence come was presented, 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.679 that's what tipped tipped everything over for him and his 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:53.520 people concerned. Yeah, that just I sort of left it 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:58.760 then because I said, you know, people mentioned in that 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.240 new evidence they need to deal with this. You need 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.000 to deal with this. He's all need to deal with 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.960 it as a family. You know, we're gonna be honest here, 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.160 and those people listening, they need to be honest to him. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.040 Tell the truth now. Yeah, why keep him locked up 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:13.960 when you know the truth. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.599 So I guess when nothing happened within. 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.800 Those ten years, how do you think Kevin sort of 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:20.439 dealt with that? 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:21.520 Being locked up. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.520 And having years passed with nothing seeming to happen. 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:32.320 He just sat there just thinking that he was gonna 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.080 be there for the rest of his life. He said, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.960 I'll be here like he used to say, Well, you know, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.439 I'll be here like Arthur Metdock for the rest of 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.480 my life. He said, No one's gonna help me. But 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.880 I always sort of when I sort of left it, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.320 left it alone. It was when that new evidence was 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.760 presented that stung the community. But that new evidence a 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.920 lot of people knew about that because I, you know, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.160 I had a couple of little whispers with people that 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.920 were close to him, and someone said to me, we 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.160 knew about that. I said, what, Yeah, a lot of 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.280 people knew about that, but we didn't want to get 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:17.000 involved because it was family. But that's why I said, oh, well, 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.560 you know, can you talk to your family about this situation, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.120 because really I can't do anything. Maybe you can. He 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.080 sees them when they come out for funerals, but there's 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:34.360 no conversation, nothing said. It's all hush hush. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:36.160 Why do you think that is? 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.800 Is it because people have sort of forgotten because he's 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.080 been in there for so long, or it's just easier 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:43.600 to not deal with it. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.560 I think I think why people stood back and they 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.840 took a back seat because they frustrated, they didn't know 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:55.960 what to do. And they didn't know need to turn to. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:01.680 And I think in the end they gave up. You know, 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.520 they didn't have the feminiar to come forward and you know, 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.280 and and fight the system. They didn't know how to 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:13.760 do it because being grown up in more Winda, in 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.440 the community. I you know, he'd been oppressed for a 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:22.000 long time for the people's best. In Kevin's mommy and 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.559 you know, she's a cry out every night for Kevin. 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.120 You know, he didn't do it. He didn't do it. 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.240 He said, I'm gonna wait for my cap kit to 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.680 come out cause I know he didn't do it. She 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:33.720 believed in me that she still does today. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.160 And what about his father as well? 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.400 He thought of loving to death and you know he 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.240 went to the grave with a southern heart knowing that 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.000 his son, him being cortrighted with the rest of his life, 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.160 did nothing. He did nothing wrong. Mm and he knew that, 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.200 you know. But he he couldn't do nothing cause no 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.000 one wouldn't listen to him, you know, no, and he 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:00.320 had no one to turn to. Her think, But you know, I, I, oh, 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.600 I just wanna take my head off from Jasmine Johnson 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.360 and their family because she never gave up on him. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.679 She never and and they have family stood buy in 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.160 for the last twenty three years of his life. And 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.199 I just wanna take my head off the Jasmin Johnson 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:15.080 and his family. 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:17.920 Do you think it was a bit of fear as well? 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.599 I think it was a lot of fear. Yeah, and 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.040 a lot of Yeah, it was a lot of fear 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.280 and m the war a bit of people. You know, 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.240 you you you you come together as a community and 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:35.840 and and they talk about justice, and justice for them 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:40.520 is fighting word. And you know you wanna speak out 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:42.800 or you don't because they'll come after you. They'll come 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.520 after your family. And that was a l a lot 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.920 of r straight to I'm put forward to the to 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.760 the family RM and they stood back. 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.320 Yeah, yeah, because I guess where can. 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.160 You go with Also, you don't have trust in the police. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.040 As well, that's right, and you know there's there was 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.280 no they didn't know who to try. There was nobody 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.360 out there to trust, no one to talk to, no 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.160 one to turn to, not even their own Humunity members 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.400 with they grow up. No, I wouldn't support them, No, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.120 wouldn't help them. And maybe there was a fear too 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:19.320 for them, you know, to come forward, and you know 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.200 the family was they didn't know, they didn't know what 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.600 to do. It's a sad situation. Yeah, very very sad. 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:33.760 You know, to be in that crossline, you know, being 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.120 that crossway and you let them. They know there's justice 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.240 out there where to go. They know where to go. 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.880 Even you, Yes, when you're saying you come from a family, 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.160 you know, a prominent family who's got radical black politics 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:49.800 and your dad was in at sick but even then, 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.760 you've had a hard time finding anyone to take this case. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:59.840 Seriously, Yeah I did. There was organizations and you know, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.920 our own mob that got up and stood up beside 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:08.080 me and supported Kevin's you know, we had a petition 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:14.319 and stuff like that being in media, and yeah, we 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.800 should of never didn't stop, but it just yeah, I 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.880 sort of left it to his family to deal with 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.680 that what came up that time, you know, ten years ago, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.920 and yeah, just sort of yeah, I was waiting for 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.600 I think an angel to come along and help us. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:44.000 And someone did come along. God sent Martin Hudson, not. 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:51.320 Only Martin and Amy and you know what, without your 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.720 it's please and you were when I got to spark 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.480 without this, Yeah, and justice will be done to Kevin. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.920 Thanks is do you think Kevin has changed a lot 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.240 over this past however. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.000 Long you've known him? Yes, it yeah, since you and 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:14.800 Martin have been on board, He's just his whole being 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:22.600 is It's not this hardened criminal, you know, stress all 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.280 the time. He's sort of come down. Like when I 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.720 visit him today, he looked like a different person. You know, 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.480 I haven't been out there for like four months, and 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.320 what I used to go up there just looking at 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.960 them officers, seniors. You know, they gave me dirty looks. 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.920 I gave them dirty looks. So what. But today it 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.120 was a different story. It was a whole new ball game. 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.000 It was all Halle's how are you yass? When yeah, 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.400 you're right because I couldn't get in. My fingerprint wouldn't 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.240 work on the machine. I said, oh no, you're right, 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.440 you can just go through, you know that sort of 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.920 it was very tense. He's very tense. But now he's 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.360 just knowing that Martin and Amy's come on board and 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.640 just being in the paper and hearing it on radio. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.000 I think it's quite overwhelming for him. He just I 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.480 think he's shocked, sort of sort of like Sun that 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.680 is still happening bang at once. Yeah, because it's been 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:19.200 so long. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.720 Yeah, I mean twenty five years of waiting, trying to 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.040 find anyone to listen. And even when the evidence come 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.240 forward ten years ago, you would have expected something to 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:27.720 happen then. 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.400 And knowing stories like when he tells me things about 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.520 when he first got sentenced, must have been the first twelve months, 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.440 or might have been first two years. He was very angry, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.720 young twenty year old thrown in prison. You know, with 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:48.680 all these lifers, hardened criminals, he just reacted to the 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.160 environment he was in. So he told me that they, 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.680 the seniors and management, put him on a big chain, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.720 tied him up to a chain every day for oh 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.359 a couple of months, and when he'd have breakfasts with 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.000 every other prisoners, they tie him up to the window. 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.800 He had tied up to a chain to a window. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:13.600 I said, so, what happened when he went to sleep 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:16.199 and he said, I was still tied up. I was 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.080 tied up all day on this big chain, like a 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.240 big dog chain, he said. When I lay down on 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:24.680 my bed, the chain be connected to the table. I said, 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:26.480 what about toilet? He said, I couldn't gave the toilet 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.920 they wouldn't let me. I said, so what happened? He said, well, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.480 I had to lay on my left side and urinate. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.880 And he said, I just made sure it went under 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.480 the red under the bed. This went on for a 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.960 couple of months. They made him chained up like an animal. Yeah, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.240 them sort of stories. You're like, you know, we're talking 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.440 about closing the gap. How can we close the gap 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:51.320 when this is happening? 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.160 Come on, people, how do you think I mean, even 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.359 though it's been obviously he's gone through his childs, how 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.240 do you think he stayed so strong given that you know, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.959 a lot of the time he's a voice in the wilderness, 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.639 like it's only him who knows his innocence, you know 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.080 what I mean? How do you think he's stayed so strong? 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.960 Do you think Kevin was a very strong person to 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:11.399 begin with? 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.159 I reckon he was a very strong person. And he 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.840 realized that. You know, he stood up for his rights 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.840 and he never ever denied that he'd been doing it. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.399 He stood up for his rights and Ian and he 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.119 knew there was a backbone behind him. He was a 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:31.880 family member that will will fighting justice system. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:32.000 All the way. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.720 And they knew that, and and that's when he confidence. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.400 He did his confidence stuff. You start to be realized, 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.400 and he said, I'm gonna win this. I'm I'm I'm 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.800 gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna start fighting. I'm gonna 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.200 fight for this. And he's doing it with the help 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.520 of the media, the help with the family member that 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:57.520 things involved in the community, you know, and he will 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.000 get justice. Yeah. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.520 And I know you said this afore, but what sort 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:03.919 of person is Kevin? 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.480 Would you say? Kevin three? Kevin as Kevin. I've known 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.919 him growing up, very loving boy, uh, respectful, very respectful. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.680 He he always acknowledged he grew up in the whole 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.240 school and the way he he brought up in the 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:23.240 whole school is with respect. M He would never ever 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.679 disrespect any he builders. And and that's one thing he 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.919 was taught from a young age, respect your elders. And 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.000 he always did. Mm. Yeah and that and that's the 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.159 way Kevin, I know it to heaven. And that's the 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.680 way you say, that's his nature. You mean, he grew 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.639 up in that environment with respect, you know. And Kevin 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.240 would never ever heard a fly never you know, he 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.280 done what he done in his own business and do 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:50.879 anything but he never ever had a fly. 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.000 Do you have any favorite memories of Kevin as he 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:54.640 was growing up? 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.160 Oh, he's I you know, w P in Warbinder. He's 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.840 a giddy's by his mother Christmas presence and his father 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.040 and you know, he gives to his father and mother 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:12.159 in Christmas presence and he never forgot that. And you know, 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.840 that's the memory that I remember Kevin because he loved 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.119 these parents, you know, and he loved his aunt and 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.719 uncles also around, you know, and he showed them all 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.960 the respect. And that's what Kevin is, that's his nature. 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.280 So he sounds like he was very much loved. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.520 He was much love for his family, and it's it's 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.920 just a sad situation that no one supported them too, yeah, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.119 you know, and it was away because they cut the 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.879 lifeline when they put Kevin away, and no one wouldn't 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.480 come forward and help the family room. Yeah, so sad. 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.119 It's really sad to know how to go, isn't it. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.879 Yeah, very sad. Well, I think him all the years 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.400 he has been in prison, he's also had that thought 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:03.679 from the other brothers in there. You know, he's built 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.240 many a relationship with white and black, you know, over 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:11.120 the years. They've supported him in different ways, and family 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.040 going there just to see him. Don't go and commit 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.480 a crime or won't pay the final you know, just 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.840 to go and spend time with him a couple of months, 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.400 a couple of years, because to pull him through this 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:24.680 long ride. 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:25.159 You know. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.560 It's yeah, they do they do it. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.879 Just show how easy black fellows get locked up, isn't it. 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:34.439 You know what I. 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.199 Always said in this era, in this system, there was 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.240 two sets of law, one for the blacks, one for 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.960 the white. And it's proven over and over and over 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:47.280 in the system in Rock Campa especially. Oh yeah, I've 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.600 always said that, you know, but we can't prove that 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.440 because we've lived it. We know for you know. And 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:58.639 now Kevin's is their product with this No it was 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:03.199 dom from black and white. And he's he's sitting in 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.639 there for the last twenty trees of his life, you know, 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.159 for nothing. Come on, come on, wake up, you know, 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:13.720 let him Let him go now he's done his time. 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.560 He did nothing wrong. Let him go. Did Kevin? 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:19.359 What did the sort of what were the sort of 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:21.639 things he liked doing? Would you say he. 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:26.240 Loved playing football? Football is his passion. He loved football, 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.440 and fishing, and you know he's a family man and 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.000 you know, are sociable. That's what's kind of manly Kevin 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.440 was and he still does today. He never lost that passion. 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:38.920 Yeah. 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:39.679 Yeah. 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:41.320 Do you think it's hard for him being away from 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.720 country and particularly, well. 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:46.520 Well, come on and be locked up for twenty three years. 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.720 You're going to be there very hard for twenty twenty 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.360 five years. And you know it's going to be very 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.760 hard for him. Adjust back in the society will take 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:58.280 him a long long time. But you know what, when 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.320 he it releaves, he he he will go back to 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.840 his country and he will go I'm gonna tell you something, 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.000 he will come out a better man. He will with 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.639 his head to stand up by and then it'll walked 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.160 the walk what he had up for mom and dad. 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.359 And he said, you know, I didn't visit, and I 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.280