Speaker 1: Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty
Speaker 1: verdicts against all three defendants.
Speaker 2: It was absolutely shambles, to tell you the truth. Just
Speaker 2: actually really put his.
Speaker 3: Blood on who's clothing.
Speaker 1: The day after the alleged a tour.
Speaker 4: Nashelle mud Bank and it fits through river.
Speaker 5: Basically, I think most of the people are used to me.
Speaker 4: Are good people. I think a really important question we
Speaker 4: need to ask is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia
Speaker 4: are innocent.
Speaker 1: This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the
Speaker 1: blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of
Speaker 1: our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm
Speaker 1: Amy Maguire and.
Speaker 4: I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner
Speaker 4: Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names
Speaker 4: of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset
Speaker 4: some listeners.
Speaker 6: Welcome to episode twenty of Curtain the podcast. As you
Speaker 6: may have seen over the last week, the media is
Speaker 6: finally taking an interest in the case of Kevin Henry
Speaker 6: and starting to ask the questions that should have been
Speaker 6: asked twenty five years ago. But this week we want
Speaker 6: to continue our look at the life of Kevin Curtin Henry. Again,
Speaker 6: we're going to be interviewing those that know Kevin best.
Speaker 6: In this episode, Amy sits down with Yasmin Johnson and
Speaker 6: her daughter Yalila. Yasmin has been absolutely crucial in keeping
Speaker 6: the story of Kevin Henry alive. Yasmin has been Kevin's
Speaker 6: voice on the outside, and without Yasmin, it's very likely
Speaker 6: you would not be hearing this podcast today. Kevin Henry
Speaker 6: may very well be lost to the system if it
Speaker 6: wasn't for the more than a decade's work Yasmin has
Speaker 6: done to ensure that justice can be done for Kevin.
Speaker 6: She's been relentlessly for Kevin and has been the single
Speaker 6: voice who's stuck by Kevin's side throughout this ordeal. Sitting
Speaker 6: down with Amy, Yasmin and Yalila is Auntie awa Orderton.
Speaker 6: She's named Kevin his entire life, from the time he
Speaker 6: was a little boy in the Aboriginal community of Wuribinda
Speaker 6: to the fateful day Kevin Henry was arrested in Rockhampton, Queensland.
Speaker 6: This week, Amy sat down with these three strong Aboriginal
Speaker 6: women who span the generations, but what they have in
Speaker 6: common is a commitment to Kevin Henry and an absolute
Speaker 6: belief in his innocence. That's because they've seen what's happened
Speaker 6: at every step of the way of this case. As
Speaker 6: Amy interviews Yasmin Awa and Yalila, you may notice that
Speaker 6: you hear a whipper snipper in the background, some plates moving,
Speaker 6: and even a baby cry. That's because when someone's in
Speaker 6: prison for twenty five years, the fight to free them
Speaker 6: is endless. Life simply can't stop. So those who have
Speaker 6: supported Kevin use every spare hour they have to do
Speaker 6: what they can. So while that might slightly interfere with
Speaker 6: the audio quality, it's nothing on the huge disruption, torment,
Speaker 6: and stress that it's had on these three amazing women's
Speaker 6: lives as they battle for Kevin Henry's freedom. Here's Amy
Speaker 6: first speaking with Yasmin.
Speaker 7: Can I start with you?
Speaker 1: When did you first find out about Kevin's case? So
Speaker 1: when did you first hear the name Kevin Henry?
Speaker 2: Older cousin was locked up at the Creek Prison and
Speaker 2: his partner then or staying with me, and they was
Speaker 2: in the same the art Kevin and my cousin Mervin
Speaker 2: and he they they used to just get on the
Speaker 2: phone and talk say later people, and oh you know
Speaker 2: so and so she sort of stories that way, you know,
Speaker 2: blackfellows do. Let's someone say, you know whatever. We started
Speaker 2: sort of talking like that, and Mervin's partner is Kevin's cousin,
Speaker 2: and she started talking about what had to happen back
Speaker 2: down at Nuba House. You know, she was you know,
Speaker 2: also showed that anger for him being locked up for
Speaker 2: these crimes. And I said why what happened? And then
Speaker 2: this sort of went from there really and then yeah,
Speaker 2: and so Kevin's sort of arked because my dad was
Speaker 2: with at sick. Then Peter Savage, he was on the
Speaker 2: ACCID council here, and he asks Mervin about, oh, can
Speaker 2: can he help me in any way? You know? Can
Speaker 2: then Mob and Rocky help me looking for you know,
Speaker 2: our representation here and Rocky sort of have a look
Speaker 2: at his case and can we do something about it?
Speaker 2: And I suppose asked me and I went to Dad
Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, I can have a talk to
Speaker 2: you know, the council and see what we can do.
Speaker 2: And it took a while, but yeah, I think it
Speaker 2: was that Michael White, he was a chair. Then that's
Speaker 2: the regional council. Dad was a part of that board
Speaker 2: and the council, and we sort of went from there
Speaker 2: and I think that went on for about probably twelve months.
Speaker 2: Then I started going down to the four Years Radio station.
Speaker 2: One of the workers down there said, come and use
Speaker 2: the station to do whatever you want because our brother
Speaker 2: needs help. One person who was running the station, he said,
Speaker 2: come and use the doors open, do use whatever you
Speaker 2: want to use, you know. So I started sort of
Speaker 2: talking on radio through Talk Black Radio with Greg Reid,
Speaker 2: Mama Vipra and getting on their sort of most mornings
Speaker 2: and just talking about this injustice and what had happened
Speaker 2: to Kevin Henry. How far How long ago was that
Speaker 2: two thousand and two? I think I started that just
Speaker 2: sort of talking. But when I started getting getting on
Speaker 2: radio and talking to media was two thousand and five.
Speaker 2: Because I read the transcripts, done all the homework with
Speaker 2: other people in the community, most of them witnesses that
Speaker 2: have passed on today, they were all alive back then,
Speaker 2: and actually spoke to them and they just like you're
Speaker 2: looking at them, and talked to them. They go like
Speaker 2: you could see that they were sorry, that they were confused.
Speaker 2: The look in their face was like, you know, I
Speaker 2: should have said the right thing. Some of them wuldn't
Speaker 2: even look at you. It was just the look of
Speaker 2: guilt sort of gave them the opportunity to talk and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Some were just straight out didn't want
Speaker 2: to say anything, but others where you could see it
Speaker 2: was just yeah, when.
Speaker 1: They started to realize that there had been an injustice done.
Speaker 2: Transcripts because we know our mob, how our mob talk,
Speaker 2: and when you read the transcripts and the comments and
Speaker 2: you know, they were different to what they said the
Speaker 2: other day or last week or when they were in
Speaker 2: the cop shop and all this, it just didn't I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm walking past these people every day. These you know,
Speaker 2: these bully men made a fool out of our mob.
Speaker 2: That's how I've seen it. They took advantage of the
Speaker 2: whole situation, all these mob involved in this case. It's
Speaker 2: just like a big laughing stock. You know, it was wrong.
Speaker 2: So me coming from a radical family, having radical black parents,
Speaker 2: it just and knowing care it building that relationship with
Speaker 2: him and having you know, prisoners come in and out
Speaker 2: and saying, you know, what you're doing is good, that
Speaker 2: we believe in him. This went on for ten years.
Speaker 2: It just sort of it pushed me all the way
Speaker 2: and then I had other people jumping on board.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, when you first started talking to Kevin, what
Speaker 1: sort of person was he?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Like, what was your impression of him?
Speaker 2: He was calm, nice, gentlemen, respectful, you know, it was hello,
Speaker 2: good morning or whatever. You know, there was there were
Speaker 2: times when he was stressed out about things. I think
Speaker 2: when the new that bit of new evidence come was presented,
Speaker 2: that's what tipped tipped everything over for him and his
Speaker 2: people concerned. Yeah, that just I sort of left it
Speaker 2: then because I said, you know, people mentioned in that
Speaker 2: new evidence they need to deal with this. You need
Speaker 2: to deal with this. He's all need to deal with
Speaker 2: it as a family. You know, we're gonna be honest here,
Speaker 2: and those people listening, they need to be honest to him.
Speaker 2: Tell the truth now. Yeah, why keep him locked up
Speaker 2: when you know the truth.
Speaker 7: So I guess when nothing happened within.
Speaker 1: Those ten years, how do you think Kevin sort of
Speaker 1: dealt with that?
Speaker 3: Being locked up.
Speaker 1: And having years passed with nothing seeming to happen.
Speaker 2: He just sat there just thinking that he was gonna
Speaker 2: be there for the rest of his life. He said,
Speaker 2: I'll be here like he used to say, Well, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll be here like Arthur Metdock for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life. He said, No one's gonna help me. But
Speaker 2: I always sort of when I sort of left it,
Speaker 2: left it alone. It was when that new evidence was
Speaker 2: presented that stung the community. But that new evidence a
Speaker 2: lot of people knew about that because I, you know,
Speaker 2: I had a couple of little whispers with people that
Speaker 2: were close to him, and someone said to me, we
Speaker 2: knew about that. I said, what, Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 2: people knew about that, but we didn't want to get
Speaker 2: involved because it was family. But that's why I said, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you know, can you talk to your family about this situation,
Speaker 2: because really I can't do anything. Maybe you can. He
Speaker 2: sees them when they come out for funerals, but there's
Speaker 2: no conversation, nothing said. It's all hush hush.
Speaker 7: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1: Is it because people have sort of forgotten because he's
Speaker 1: been in there for so long, or it's just easier
Speaker 1: to not deal with it.
Speaker 3: I think I think why people stood back and they
Speaker 3: took a back seat because they frustrated, they didn't know
Speaker 3: what to do. And they didn't know need to turn to.
Speaker 3: And I think in the end they gave up. You know,
Speaker 3: they didn't have the feminiar to come forward and you know,
Speaker 3: and and fight the system. They didn't know how to
Speaker 3: do it because being grown up in more Winda, in
Speaker 3: the community. I you know, he'd been oppressed for a
Speaker 3: long time for the people's best. In Kevin's mommy and
Speaker 3: you know, she's a cry out every night for Kevin.
Speaker 3: You know, he didn't do it. He didn't do it.
Speaker 3: He said, I'm gonna wait for my cap kit to
Speaker 3: come out cause I know he didn't do it. She
Speaker 3: believed in me that she still does today.
Speaker 7: And what about his father as well?
Speaker 3: He thought of loving to death and you know he
Speaker 3: went to the grave with a southern heart knowing that
Speaker 3: his son, him being cortrighted with the rest of his life,
Speaker 3: did nothing. He did nothing wrong. Mm and he knew that,
Speaker 3: you know. But he he couldn't do nothing cause no
Speaker 3: one wouldn't listen to him, you know, no, and he
Speaker 3: had no one to turn to. Her think, But you know, I, I, oh,
Speaker 3: I just wanna take my head off from Jasmine Johnson
Speaker 3: and their family because she never gave up on him.
Speaker 3: She never and and they have family stood buy in
Speaker 3: for the last twenty three years of his life. And
Speaker 3: I just wanna take my head off the Jasmin Johnson
Speaker 3: and his family.
Speaker 2: Do you think it was a bit of fear as well?
Speaker 3: I think it was a lot of fear. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: a lot of Yeah, it was a lot of fear
Speaker 3: and m the war a bit of people. You know,
Speaker 3: you you you you come together as a community and
Speaker 3: and and they talk about justice, and justice for them
Speaker 3: is fighting word. And you know you wanna speak out
Speaker 3: or you don't because they'll come after you. They'll come
Speaker 3: after your family. And that was a l a lot
Speaker 3: of r straight to I'm put forward to the to
Speaker 3: the family RM and they stood back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I guess where can.
Speaker 1: You go with Also, you don't have trust in the police.
Speaker 3: As well, that's right, and you know there's there was
Speaker 3: no they didn't know who to try. There was nobody
Speaker 3: out there to trust, no one to talk to, no
Speaker 3: one to turn to, not even their own Humunity members
Speaker 3: with they grow up. No, I wouldn't support them, No,
Speaker 3: wouldn't help them. And maybe there was a fear too
Speaker 3: for them, you know, to come forward, and you know
Speaker 3: the family was they didn't know, they didn't know what
Speaker 3: to do. It's a sad situation. Yeah, very very sad.
Speaker 3: You know, to be in that crossline, you know, being
Speaker 3: that crossway and you let them. They know there's justice
Speaker 3: out there where to go. They know where to go.
Speaker 1: Even you, Yes, when you're saying you come from a family,
Speaker 1: you know, a prominent family who's got radical black politics
Speaker 1: and your dad was in at sick but even then,
Speaker 1: you've had a hard time finding anyone to take this case.
Speaker 2: Seriously, Yeah I did. There was organizations and you know,
Speaker 2: our own mob that got up and stood up beside
Speaker 2: me and supported Kevin's you know, we had a petition
Speaker 2: and stuff like that being in media, and yeah, we
Speaker 2: should of never didn't stop, but it just yeah, I
Speaker 2: sort of left it to his family to deal with
Speaker 2: that what came up that time, you know, ten years ago,
Speaker 2: and yeah, just sort of yeah, I was waiting for
Speaker 2: I think an angel to come along and help us.
Speaker 2: And someone did come along. God sent Martin Hudson, not.
Speaker 3: Only Martin and Amy and you know what, without your
Speaker 3: it's please and you were when I got to spark
Speaker 3: without this, Yeah, and justice will be done to Kevin.
Speaker 1: Thanks is do you think Kevin has changed a lot
Speaker 1: over this past however.
Speaker 2: Long you've known him? Yes, it yeah, since you and
Speaker 2: Martin have been on board, He's just his whole being
Speaker 2: is It's not this hardened criminal, you know, stress all
Speaker 2: the time. He's sort of come down. Like when I
Speaker 2: visit him today, he looked like a different person. You know,
Speaker 2: I haven't been out there for like four months, and
Speaker 2: what I used to go up there just looking at
Speaker 2: them officers, seniors. You know, they gave me dirty looks.
Speaker 2: I gave them dirty looks. So what. But today it
Speaker 2: was a different story. It was a whole new ball game.
Speaker 2: It was all Halle's how are you yass? When yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right because I couldn't get in. My fingerprint wouldn't
Speaker 2: work on the machine. I said, oh no, you're right,
Speaker 2: you can just go through, you know that sort of
Speaker 2: it was very tense. He's very tense. But now he's
Speaker 2: just knowing that Martin and Amy's come on board and
Speaker 2: just being in the paper and hearing it on radio.
Speaker 2: I think it's quite overwhelming for him. He just I
Speaker 2: think he's shocked, sort of sort of like Sun that
Speaker 2: is still happening bang at once. Yeah, because it's been
Speaker 2: so long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean twenty five years of waiting, trying to
Speaker 1: find anyone to listen. And even when the evidence come
Speaker 1: forward ten years ago, you would have expected something to
Speaker 1: happen then.
Speaker 2: And knowing stories like when he tells me things about
Speaker 2: when he first got sentenced, must have been the first twelve months,
Speaker 2: or might have been first two years. He was very angry,
Speaker 2: young twenty year old thrown in prison. You know, with
Speaker 2: all these lifers, hardened criminals, he just reacted to the
Speaker 2: environment he was in. So he told me that they,
Speaker 2: the seniors and management, put him on a big chain,
Speaker 2: tied him up to a chain every day for oh
Speaker 2: a couple of months, and when he'd have breakfasts with
Speaker 2: every other prisoners, they tie him up to the window.
Speaker 2: He had tied up to a chain to a window.
Speaker 2: I said, so, what happened when he went to sleep
Speaker 2: and he said, I was still tied up. I was
Speaker 2: tied up all day on this big chain, like a
Speaker 2: big dog chain, he said. When I lay down on
Speaker 2: my bed, the chain be connected to the table. I said,
Speaker 2: what about toilet? He said, I couldn't gave the toilet
Speaker 2: they wouldn't let me. I said, so what happened? He said, well,
Speaker 2: I had to lay on my left side and urinate.
Speaker 2: And he said, I just made sure it went under
Speaker 2: the red under the bed. This went on for a
Speaker 2: couple of months. They made him chained up like an animal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: them sort of stories. You're like, you know, we're talking
Speaker 2: about closing the gap. How can we close the gap
Speaker 2: when this is happening?
Speaker 1: Come on, people, how do you think I mean, even
Speaker 1: though it's been obviously he's gone through his childs, how
Speaker 1: do you think he stayed so strong given that you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the time he's a voice in the wilderness,
Speaker 1: like it's only him who knows his innocence, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? How do you think he's stayed so strong?
Speaker 1: Do you think Kevin was a very strong person to
Speaker 1: begin with?
Speaker 3: I reckon he was a very strong person. And he
Speaker 3: realized that. You know, he stood up for his rights
Speaker 3: and he never ever denied that he'd been doing it.
Speaker 3: He stood up for his rights and Ian and he
Speaker 3: knew there was a backbone behind him. He was a
Speaker 3: family member that will will fighting justice system.
Speaker 2: All the way.
Speaker 3: And they knew that, and and that's when he confidence.
Speaker 3: He did his confidence stuff. You start to be realized,
Speaker 3: and he said, I'm gonna win this. I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna start fighting. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: fight for this. And he's doing it with the help
Speaker 3: of the media, the help with the family member that
Speaker 3: things involved in the community, you know, and he will
Speaker 3: get justice. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I know you said this afore, but what sort
Speaker 1: of person is Kevin?
Speaker 3: Would you say? Kevin three? Kevin as Kevin. I've known
Speaker 3: him growing up, very loving boy, uh, respectful, very respectful.
Speaker 3: He he always acknowledged he grew up in the whole
Speaker 3: school and the way he he brought up in the
Speaker 3: whole school is with respect. M He would never ever
Speaker 3: disrespect any he builders. And and that's one thing he
Speaker 3: was taught from a young age, respect your elders. And
Speaker 3: he always did. Mm. Yeah and that and that's the
Speaker 3: way Kevin, I know it to heaven. And that's the
Speaker 3: way you say, that's his nature. You mean, he grew
Speaker 3: up in that environment with respect, you know. And Kevin
Speaker 3: would never ever heard a fly never you know, he
Speaker 3: done what he done in his own business and do
Speaker 3: anything but he never ever had a fly.
Speaker 1: Do you have any favorite memories of Kevin as he
Speaker 1: was growing up?
Speaker 3: Oh, he's I you know, w P in Warbinder. He's
Speaker 3: a giddy's by his mother Christmas presence and his father
Speaker 3: and you know, he gives to his father and mother
Speaker 3: in Christmas presence and he never forgot that. And you know,
Speaker 3: that's the memory that I remember Kevin because he loved
Speaker 3: these parents, you know, and he loved his aunt and
Speaker 3: uncles also around, you know, and he showed them all
Speaker 3: the respect. And that's what Kevin is, that's his nature.
Speaker 2: So he sounds like he was very much loved.
Speaker 3: He was much love for his family, and it's it's
Speaker 3: just a sad situation that no one supported them too, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, and it was away because they cut the
Speaker 3: lifeline when they put Kevin away, and no one wouldn't
Speaker 3: come forward and help the family room. Yeah, so sad.
Speaker 7: It's really sad to know how to go, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very sad. Well, I think him all the years
Speaker 2: he has been in prison, he's also had that thought
Speaker 2: from the other brothers in there. You know, he's built
Speaker 2: many a relationship with white and black, you know, over
Speaker 2: the years. They've supported him in different ways, and family
Speaker 2: going there just to see him. Don't go and commit
Speaker 2: a crime or won't pay the final you know, just
Speaker 2: to go and spend time with him a couple of months,
Speaker 2: a couple of years, because to pull him through this
Speaker 2: long ride.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, they do they do it.
Speaker 1: Just show how easy black fellows get locked up, isn't it.
Speaker 2: You know what I.
Speaker 3: Always said in this era, in this system, there was
Speaker 3: two sets of law, one for the blacks, one for
Speaker 3: the white. And it's proven over and over and over
Speaker 3: in the system in Rock Campa especially. Oh yeah, I've
Speaker 3: always said that, you know, but we can't prove that
Speaker 3: because we've lived it. We know for you know. And
Speaker 3: now Kevin's is their product with this No it was
Speaker 3: dom from black and white. And he's he's sitting in
Speaker 3: there for the last twenty trees of his life, you know,
Speaker 3: for nothing. Come on, come on, wake up, you know,
Speaker 3: let him Let him go now he's done his time.
Speaker 3: He did nothing wrong. Let him go. Did Kevin?
Speaker 1: What did the sort of what were the sort of
Speaker 1: things he liked doing? Would you say he.
Speaker 3: Loved playing football? Football is his passion. He loved football,
Speaker 3: and fishing, and you know he's a family man and
Speaker 3: you know, are sociable. That's what's kind of manly Kevin
Speaker 3: was and he still does today. He never lost that passion.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's hard for him being away from
Speaker 1: country and particularly, well.
Speaker 3: Well, come on and be locked up for twenty three years.
Speaker 3: You're going to be there very hard for twenty twenty
Speaker 3: five years. And you know it's going to be very
Speaker 3: hard for him. Adjust back in the society will take
Speaker 3: him a long long time. But you know what, when
Speaker 3: he it releaves, he he he will go back to
Speaker 3: his country and he will go I'm gonna tell you something,
Speaker 3: he will come out a better man. He will with
Speaker 3: his head to stand up by and then it'll walked
Speaker 3: the walk what he had up for mom and dad.
Speaker 3: And he said, you know, I didn't visit, and I
Speaker 3: want people to believe that he didn't do it. He's
Speaker 3: an innocent boy, he is, and he know what then,
Speaker 3: always always maintain his innocent. That day he went to jail, Yes,
Speaker 3: and I believed in him.
Speaker 8: Did you get to see him a lot of.
Speaker 1: The time after he was convicted, after he was charged.
Speaker 3: Well, I went around to the courthouse and him and
Speaker 3: sister the disease. Now, we went around there and I said,
Speaker 3: look pull or ply he got nobody there. Oh he
Speaker 3: was had taking back to the watchhouse and we went there,
Speaker 3: so can we seek heaven? They said, no, he's gone.
Speaker 3: He went back to we're just shining out with him
Speaker 3: to that and a quick so quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So you never got to see him.
Speaker 3: No, I never ever seen him the other day that
Speaker 3: he was affected.
Speaker 7: Him.
Speaker 3: He's a sad situation. It is very very sad. But
Speaker 3: justice will be done for him. And you know, thanks
Speaker 3: for them, you know, the team and people who believe him,
Speaker 3: you know, never gave up on him. I'm really workful
Speaker 3: and thankful for that.
Speaker 1: I think it was like, yeah, what does Kevin talk
Speaker 1: about with you? I mean you talk to him mostly
Speaker 1: in visits and going to the on the phone and
Speaker 1: everything like that. But I guess what would you say
Speaker 1: his passions?
Speaker 2: Even now, Oh, he hasks about what we do all
Speaker 2: the time. He starts in journal you know what's happening
Speaker 2: out in the community, and you know, talk about all
Speaker 2: different things. We'll talk about. You know, one might be
Speaker 2: going to a meeting, we're talking about this and that.
Speaker 2: You know, and he'll jump straight on board and say, yeah,
Speaker 2: well this should happen and this should you know, we
Speaker 2: talk about all sorts of things, family stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: things happening in the community, talk about football, you know Paramatter, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think they're beating LUs Yeah, yeah, that's football. Yeah, Paramatter,
Speaker 2: he's a Parametter fan. Yeah. We just talk about everything.
Speaker 2: We talk about out there, what's happening. You know. Some
Speaker 2: of them fellows will get on and slo and yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Does it amazing that when he went back and when
Speaker 1: he went in and nine one, I mean he comes
Speaker 1: out as Facebook, we've all got mobile phones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they tell him about they tell him about Facebook
Speaker 2: and YouTube and mobile phones, and he asks to tell
Speaker 2: him how it works and what you can do on it.
Speaker 2: And all them young colors are going there too. They
Speaker 2: tell him about what to use a computer and a
Speaker 2: laptop and you know, all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 7: You sort of realized it was a different time, think, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, different era yep.
Speaker 1: And as Aboriginal women yourself, what do you think about
Speaker 1: when you think about Linda and potentially the enduring injustice
Speaker 1: that occurred around her death.
Speaker 2: She was just forgotten absolutely, just forgotten. Like Kevin Henry
Speaker 2: was forgotten. You know, they locked him up through away
Speaker 2: the key and Linda was like sort of it was
Speaker 2: you know, she never existed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like life of the place of the hurt.
Speaker 3: You know, everybody forgot about it. You know, why do
Speaker 3: you think that is to cover up the truth? That's
Speaker 3: what it is, cover up the truth that didn't want
Speaker 3: to take responsibility what they've done, especially this community in Northampton.
Speaker 3: You know, the two should have been told in the
Speaker 3: first place, and it didn't. It was covered up. Is
Speaker 3: the black and white thing here? Then in them here
Speaker 3: when they're growing up in this community 'stal blacks, you
Speaker 3: get a rash white police no matter what. And I
Speaker 3: think that's what happened to Kevin and then Blinda black
Speaker 3: Man the River Bay.
Speaker 2: And again killing each other. Let him go, that's all
Speaker 2: they know, that's all they do. That's the attitude of
Speaker 2: the white men I socided now and white and the government.
Speaker 2: The government's to blame because this has happened to our people.
Speaker 2: It's colonization. They've run everything, whether it be corrections, prisons,
Speaker 2: the police departments, health, education, housing. White men run all that.
Speaker 2: We've got to live under their laws, and yeah, they're like.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit about your own
Speaker 1: your Yasmin's daughter, but how you started to know about
Speaker 1: Kevin Henry's Kevin Henry's case and what it means to
Speaker 1: you as a young Aboriginal woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know how old we were, but we
Speaker 5: moved to Rocky and I remember what we were looking at,
Speaker 5: I think house sing and Mum formed this relationship with
Speaker 5: Kevin and I didn't know much about it, obviously because
Speaker 5: of my age, but.
Speaker 7: We'd go out to the jail and visit him. We
Speaker 7: were young, we were probably.
Speaker 2: Seven, rude four five four.
Speaker 5: Or five, So my sister and I would go out
Speaker 5: there and he didn't really know who he was or
Speaker 5: but he was always very friendly to us, always interested
Speaker 5: in us, like you know, and still is, like even
Speaker 5: though we haven't like never ever knew him personally, but we.
Speaker 7: Just formed a three Mum, yeah, form this kind of
Speaker 7: like family kind of bond with him.
Speaker 5: We've become like a part of his extended family to say,
Speaker 5: we kind of took him in and he kind of
Speaker 5: like adopted us as well as his kind of I guess,
Speaker 5: you know, little family and yeah, and then ever since then,
Speaker 5: it's kind of Mum's been He's been in the picture, and.
Speaker 7: I didn't really understand what was happening.
Speaker 9: But I remember one day me and Mum went to
Speaker 9: the South Side Library and she walked up to the
Speaker 9: counter and I was like a little girl, and she
Speaker 9: like went to this, went to the lady behind the kenna.
Speaker 7: She's like, I'm looking for some articles.
Speaker 5: Back in nineteen ninety one ninety two, and the lady's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: what's about Mum's like a murder and she's like oh,
Speaker 5: And I was like kind.
Speaker 7: Of That's when I was like, what's one I'm getting into?
Speaker 3: Like realize like she mom.
Speaker 5: So we were at the Southside Library. This is when
Speaker 5: I little girl. Mum's research and all this stuff. I
Speaker 5: didn't really I kind of caught on. And I would
Speaker 5: overhear Mum's conversations with our family members about you know,
Speaker 5: because Kevin would ring the.
Speaker 7: House and other people would answer their Kevin guy and.
Speaker 10: You know, yeah, so yeah, kind of from a girl,
Speaker 10: yeah understood about I kind of grew up with knowing
Speaker 10: about Kevin, knowing about this, and I was kind.
Speaker 7: Of a bit confused as well.
Speaker 5: Because I was like, we don't even know this man,
Speaker 5: like why is one doing this?
Speaker 7: And looking back on it now, it's all.
Speaker 5: Been really voluntary on Month's behalf to go out of
Speaker 5: her way.
Speaker 7: She's not obligated, like it's.
Speaker 5: No, we don't really even know Kevin from La bar
Speaker 5: so before this, so she didn't feel like yeah.
Speaker 7: Definitely, so and he rings up.
Speaker 5: He's always asking about like his lips kind of life
Speaker 5: through us, about what's going on, and you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: so it's really nice and keeping him up to date
Speaker 5: with like having my baby like last year.
Speaker 7: So he's she gets on the phone and talks to him,
Speaker 7: and he talks to her and it's really nice.
Speaker 5: So he's kind of, yeah, it's really nice to it's
Speaker 5: a bit comfort knowing that he's still like engaging with
Speaker 5: us and having those sharing those moments and creating memories.
Speaker 7: So it's interesting though, because how old are you now?
Speaker 7: I turned towny five in April, and very soon it.
Speaker 1: Was your birthday was when he got convicted, So your
Speaker 1: whole life he has been.
Speaker 7: In jail, that's right.
Speaker 5: So the other day I was born, he was convicted,
Speaker 5: which is the tenth of April.
Speaker 7: Mute ninety two.
Speaker 11: So it's amazing ironic, right, So, yeah, I guess putting
Speaker 11: it that way, I've grown up, I've went to school,
Speaker 11: I've traveled, I've been overseas, I've had a baby, like,
Speaker 11: I've done all these things with that twenty five year
Speaker 11: back like, and while Kevin's he's missed out on all that,
Speaker 11: Like he hasn't said, he hasn't created those memories or
Speaker 11: shared those experiences with people, or experienced traveling or what
Speaker 11: I learned from honey our is that he didn't really
Speaker 11: even get to experience adulthood because he you know, I'm
Speaker 11: making you know, having that agency to make his own
Speaker 11: choices or have a house or just all these basic
Speaker 11: things that we've I've done, like you know, becoming, you know,
Speaker 11: going through those stages of adolescence.
Speaker 2: And he was going through yeah time. Yeah.
Speaker 11: And then so he's been locked up for twenty five years,
Speaker 11: practically controlled by the stay, you know, being told what
Speaker 11: to do, what to say, what to eat, what to.
Speaker 1: Wear, And you realize how much has been stolen away
Speaker 1: from him, you think of it.
Speaker 7: So I mean, I yeah, or for the entirety of
Speaker 7: my life, that's how long Kevin's not had.
Speaker 8: A life, Yeah, if I can, like, if that makes sense,
Speaker 8: And as a young Aboriginal woman, you sort of hope
Speaker 8: that there would be you know, justice as whole murderers around.
Speaker 1: You know, the life and worse not only of Kevin,
Speaker 1: but i'll Linda. So you would hope that things are
Speaker 1: changing because you know that could.
Speaker 7: Have happened to any one.
Speaker 1: Yasmudern Us, what are your impressions of the lawyers and
Speaker 1: the legal communities who are supposed to have helped Kevin
Speaker 1: over all these years?
Speaker 2: Disgusting, downright disgusting. It was all shambles. It was all
Speaker 2: set up, It was controlled right from day dot. Yeah, disgusting,
Speaker 2: absolutely disgusting, average legal service, a lot whole lot of them.
Speaker 2: The judge, the lawyers, Dave Murray only come in two
Speaker 2: days before Kevin's barrister, knew nothing about Kevin Henry, knew
Speaker 2: nothing about the case, knew nothing about the average people
Speaker 2: that lived down the river bank. It was all, like
Speaker 2: I said, from the start, episode one shambles.
Speaker 1: So who was supposed to have helped Kevin along this
Speaker 1: whole journey.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of the people departments that should
Speaker 2: have helped Kevin Henry, he said, he sat up there
Speaker 2: in the watch chause not one black person went up
Speaker 2: there and seen him. From an organization, from the legal service,
Speaker 2: white black, whatever. One person went up there. They said
Speaker 2: that he said oh. They come back and said oh,
Speaker 2: that he couldn't have representation or something was going on.
Speaker 2: It was the drawn out process and Dave Murray gets
Speaker 2: tucked in the deep end three days before the court
Speaker 2: before he has the front up court, and his family's
Speaker 2: not even sitting there in the courthouse. Not one single
Speaker 2: family member had come in from Urabinda, and an averageal
Speaker 2: legal service sort of contacted them and said, how he's
Speaker 2: going to get in, We'll send out a bus to
Speaker 2: bring us in to support your son, your brother, whatever.
Speaker 1: They never contacted them, probably not.
Speaker 3: No, I think a family member have never been notified
Speaker 3: that the they Kevin was sentenced. You know, it was
Speaker 3: a shock to the whole community that he was labeled
Speaker 3: and he was framed. I'm saying he was framed for this,
Speaker 3: you know, and his family was devastated, you know, because
Speaker 3: he they have a player justice tile and he didn't do.
Speaker 1: You remember what sort of I know it's a long
Speaker 1: time ago, but do you remember what it was like
Speaker 1: when you know you personally heard the decision.
Speaker 2: I cried.
Speaker 3: I was cried. I was devastated because I knew Kevin
Speaker 3: would never ever do this. I cried, you know, my
Speaker 3: heart at and I said, you know, something going to
Speaker 3: be done about some boy. You know, he didn't do this.
Speaker 3: You know, he come from work, it worked, and come
Speaker 3: over the weekend and it was fraying. He was frying
Speaker 3: from this murder. Were you in Rocky at that time
Speaker 3: or I was I were living in Rocky, I was
Speaker 3: living here in Rocky. Yeah, but I remember that time
Speaker 3: when when Kevin was sent So.
Speaker 1: I guess it gets confusing because all the women, they've
Speaker 1: all been charged in the same murder trial for different things,
Speaker 1: but at one point they're all charged with the same thing.
Speaker 3: So who does the als represent?
Speaker 2: I guess there.
Speaker 3: A well, they took the three women, they took they
Speaker 3: them on board, you know, and they said, oh, Keviness,
Speaker 3: it was a conflict of interest to represent Kevin because
Speaker 3: black on black, they should have had a proper purpect
Speaker 3: reputation there. Yeah, but there were nobody there representing poor
Speaker 3: or color. No, you know, they stood there all alone. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and they but the legal system and the back they
Speaker 3: they they represented the three women. Yeah, you know that's
Speaker 3: that's unfair, unfair justice. You know, I remember very very clearly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have any view of the original Legal
Speaker 1: Service before then, like it was known for being today.
Speaker 3: I don't have any faith in the Legal Service because
Speaker 3: I don't trust them. Well they if they can do
Speaker 3: this to this young feller, they'll do to anybody, you know,
Speaker 3: cause there's no there's no faith, there's no justice in
Speaker 3: that system. They did we I mean, just number students
Speaker 3: to get the funding. That's what they set up. Of course,
Speaker 3: that's what we do.
Speaker 1: You know, just you're talking about when you first started
Speaker 1: looking into it, all the witnesses were still alive. If
Speaker 1: something had happened back then, you know, do you reckon
Speaker 1: we'd still be in this situation? I mean, do you
Speaker 1: think one of the biggest problems is the fact that
Speaker 1: a lot of witnesses have passed on now?
Speaker 2: No, they were, their mounds were still shut when they
Speaker 2: you know, they knew Kevin was sitting out there doing time.
Speaker 2: They didn't budge. A couple of them did. But when
Speaker 2: you'd see them, you could just see the look in
Speaker 2: their face was like, what have I done?
Speaker 3: And you know, there was written all over and a
Speaker 3: lot of the they were threatened too, and then that's
Speaker 3: why they wouldn't come forward to them and for their safety,
Speaker 3: for them and for their fall. Yeah, that's what that's
Speaker 3: that's what really stopped them in the bear graid to
Speaker 3: speak out. Yeah, you know, how do you tackle a
Speaker 3: situation like that? Yeah, you know they wanted the help.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I'm sad. Sad situation. It is very sad.
Speaker 2: Sad situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very sad, you know. But twenty five years a
Speaker 3: long time. Kevin's old childhood is pean ate liven away
Speaker 3: from you and the day's set three Eldada in history.
Speaker 3: It will and I can't wait for the day to come.
Speaker 6: That was Yasmin Johnson, her daughter Yalila and Auntie Awah
Speaker 6: Warden and they were speaking with my co host Amy maguire.
Speaker 6: Just before we wrap up this week. I want you
Speaker 6: to think about a few of the things you heard
Speaker 6: in that interview, the mistreatment that Kevin Henry suffered over
Speaker 6: the years that reminds us about what's just gone on
Speaker 6: in don Dale in the Northern Territory. I want you
Speaker 6: to think about the lack of legal representation that kept's
Speaker 6: had over the years, and the issues the women raised
Speaker 6: about that, and how that must have impacted on Kevin's
Speaker 6: trial and his bid to prove his innocence. I also
Speaker 6: think it's vital to point out that those three women
Speaker 6: are obviously supporters of Kevin Henry, but like all the
Speaker 6: women we've spoken to in this series, particularly Aboriginal women,
Speaker 6: they've all spoken about Linda because they understand something that
Speaker 6: should be deeply disturbing to all Australians and he's quite
Speaker 6: frankly frightening to them that they too could have been
Speaker 6: a statistic a murdered woman who's never had justice, And
Speaker 6: just like the abuses in Dondale, women being murdered in
Speaker 6: our society continue to this day and the justice is
Speaker 6: just as poor as it was twenty five years ago.
Speaker 6: We've also just heard of another death in custody. Again.
Speaker 6: It's about twenty five years since the Royal Commission into
Speaker 6: Black debts in custody and in that time there's been
Speaker 6: some four hundred deaths. The twenty five years that Kevin
Speaker 6: Henry has spent in prison don't just represent the twenty
Speaker 6: five years of his life that's been stolen from him
Speaker 6: by the State of Queensland. They represent a further twenty
Speaker 6: five years in which we've failed women, particularly Aboriginal women,
Speaker 6: who have experienced violence, family violence, domestic violence, and tragically,
Speaker 6: like Linda, who have been murdered. It represents another twenty
Speaker 6: five years of black debts in custody and brutal treatment
Speaker 6: at the hands of police and sometimes corrective services officers.
Speaker 6: It represents twenty five more years of Aboriginal people not
Speaker 6: getting the legal representation they deserve that our system demands
Speaker 6: if it is to live up to its expectations. Finally,
Speaker 6: it represents another twenty five years in our failings of
Speaker 6: Aboriginal people and the way our broader society has failed
Speaker 6: to close that gap that Yasmin Johnson spoke of. How
Speaker 6: can that gap be closed when women are murdered and
Speaker 6: justice isn't done, When the wrong person is sent to
Speaker 6: jail and loses twenty five years of their life, When
Speaker 6: the people who are sent to jail are brutalized and traumatized,
Speaker 6: when they don't receive proper legal representation and have any
Speaker 6: chance to prove their innocence, and when they continue to
Speaker 6: be harassed by the police over the course of this podcast,
Speaker 6: We've sought to interview absolutely everybody we can. We've spoken
Speaker 6: to international experts, We've spoken to as many witnesses that
Speaker 6: have come forward who have wanted to share their story.
Speaker 6: We haven't prevented anyone from telling their side of the
Speaker 6: story or giving their version of events. But what you've
Speaker 6: heard from everyone we've spoken to, what you've heard from
Speaker 6: all the evidence, both old and new, what you've heard
Speaker 6: from the analysis of independent legal experts, who you've heard
Speaker 6: on this show, and what you've heard from all those
Speaker 6: who have lived in Rockhampton and Warabinda who have observed
Speaker 6: this ordeal. It's been the same. From every single person.
Speaker 6: Family member, stranger, elder, local legal expert, forensic expert. All
Speaker 6: say one thing. Kevin Henry is an innocent man. So
Speaker 6: as we close episode twenty of Curtin the podcast, once
Speaker 6: again I ask you to spread the word about this case,
Speaker 6: contact the media, contact your local MP, and share this
Speaker 6: podcast as far and wide as you can. Justice requires it,
Speaker 6: justice demands it. For Kevin Henry, it's time he's set free.
Speaker 6: And for Linda, it's time that her real killers were
Speaker 6: brought to justice and her family can have the peace
Speaker 6: that they deserve. Join us next week for Curtain the
Speaker 6: Podcast