Speaker 1: Okay, guys, ever, welcome back to another episode of Life.
Speaker 2: I'm cut, I'm Brittany, and I'm Laura.
Speaker 3: And if you were listening to this and you were
Speaker 3: from New South Wales, I don't need to tell you,
Speaker 3: but yesterday it was Freedom Day and I'm sure we're
Speaker 3: all very, very excited. The reason why I say I'm
Speaker 3: sure is because britt and I are actually recording this
Speaker 3: on Sunday, so it's not quite Freedom Day yet. It's
Speaker 3: three hours away. It's nine o'clock.
Speaker 1: And what are you going to do with your Freedom Day?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 1: Because I know a lot of my friends, everyone on
Speaker 1: my gram hair friend's booked their hair appointments, their dinners,
Speaker 1: they're socializing, They've got groups of friends they're meeting up with,
Speaker 1: like people are ready to rumble.
Speaker 2: What are you doing to celebrate?
Speaker 3: I have two children, if you weren't aware of that,
Speaker 3: and we are doing absolutely nothing, which sounds ridiculous about
Speaker 3: how this moment today where I guess it kind of
Speaker 3: this whole Freedom Day thing just kind of crept up
Speaker 3: really quickly. It's been a long sixteen or fifteen.
Speaker 1: Weeks, it's been two years, but it really crept up, well,
Speaker 1: it kind of crept up.
Speaker 3: In that, like, I hadn't thought about organizing or booking
Speaker 3: anything in but I had this real moment of anxiety today.
Speaker 3: And I was partly because I was so happy and
Speaker 3: excited that things are going back to normal, But on
Speaker 3: the flip side of that, I was also like, holy shit,
Speaker 3: I have to socialize with people.
Speaker 2: Things are going back to normal.
Speaker 3: And I guess I didn't really realize how much this
Speaker 3: lockdown had affected me, and it kind of all came
Speaker 3: crashing down in one big fell swoop. So as much
Speaker 3: as there's so much excitement and happiness that I get
Speaker 3: to see and touch and be around my friends again,
Speaker 3: I also and Britt like, I mean, we were just
Speaker 3: talking about this, So for anyone who's listening, this is news,
Speaker 3: but for ITT's kind of you're well aware of this.
Speaker 3: Like I genuinely feel like I have social anxiety from
Speaker 3: spending so little time around other people that even sometimes
Speaker 3: during this podcast, I have to really prep myself up
Speaker 3: at the moment to mentally be in a good space
Speaker 3: to be aware that this is going out to so
Speaker 3: many people when in my day to day literally the
Speaker 3: only person I speak to is Matt. And then Brittan
Speaker 3: I podcast once or twice a week.
Speaker 2: It's wild.
Speaker 1: Laura's like, I don't know how to speak to one
Speaker 1: and do like I just tried to do this podcasts
Speaker 1: three times and I'm like talking through what's happening.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what are you feeling?
Speaker 1: She's like, I don't know how to speak to people anymore?
Speaker 2: Just what am I feeling?
Speaker 3: Anxiety like the rest of Australia. But I think I
Speaker 3: know that people are experiencing anxiety in prolific levels at
Speaker 3: the moment. There's anxiety around getting in trouble for doing
Speaker 3: the wrong thing, of being caught out for doing the
Speaker 3: wrong thing. Even if you're doing the right thing, even
Speaker 3: if you're obeying all the rules, there's still this feeling
Speaker 3: of like you could get into trouble. And I guess
Speaker 3: also on top of that, it's just, you know, feeling
Speaker 3: like not being able to see your friends and missing
Speaker 3: out in some really huge life events and zoom just
Speaker 3: doesn't cut at Brittany, I am ready for you to
Speaker 3: get back in my bedroom where we can record.
Speaker 2: Face to face.
Speaker 1: But from what I've seen everyone in my life and
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the GRAM, this feeling that
Speaker 1: you're having seems to be very normal. Anxiety is high
Speaker 1: right now. People have gotten used to this change.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying no one wants to go.
Speaker 1: Back to normal, because everyone does, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: it doesn't come with some reservations. People have gotten used
Speaker 1: to this sort of semi introverted life, and a lot
Speaker 1: of people talking about the fact that they don't know
Speaker 1: how to go back to normal. They don't know how
Speaker 1: to go back to being comfortable in public and having
Speaker 1: all these plans.
Speaker 2: So I think basically.
Speaker 1: Anything that anyone's feeling right now is okay, and it
Speaker 1: is valid, whether you're excited about it, whether you're nervous,
Speaker 1: whether you're anxious. I think that that's all okay, and
Speaker 1: everyone's going through the same wave of emotions. Let's hope
Speaker 1: that the other states are not far behind us. If
Speaker 1: you are from Melbourne that is still in lockdown, please
Speaker 1: hang in there and we hope you are coming to
Speaker 1: freedom day very very soon.
Speaker 3: One big thing that we have received so many questions
Speaker 3: and emails about is just people's dating anxieties getting back
Speaker 3: into the world and going dating again, and like if
Speaker 3: you're single, trying to get it back out there.
Speaker 2: And meet people.
Speaker 3: You become so familiar with what you do in your
Speaker 3: day to day that this feeling of life going back
Speaker 3: to normal and having to put yourself out there, especially
Speaker 3: for anyone who's listening who is a typical introvert, it's
Speaker 3: a really, really daunting time. As much as it's exciting
Speaker 3: and as much as so many people are absolutely thrilled,
Speaker 3: I think that there's a big group of us as
Speaker 3: well who feel a little bit scared at the moment
Speaker 3: that everything's changing back so quickly.
Speaker 1: And I think one thing on that sense, nothing rings
Speaker 1: truer than talking about the anxiety of dating throughout COVID
Speaker 1: when you compare life to before COVID in COVID and
Speaker 1: to what's going to happen now after COVID. For sure,
Speaker 1: the dating landscape has one hundred percent changed. I think
Speaker 1: dating in COVID has some positives, and I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot that we've learned from it. And one big
Speaker 1: thing I think people going to do, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: people are going to go rampant, Like the one night
Speaker 1: scene is going to be crazy.
Speaker 2: Go live your best life. I hope you guys go
Speaker 2: have some fun.
Speaker 1: But I just think the landscape has changed so much.
Speaker 1: And before we could go out no worries, and you
Speaker 1: could be having one night stand, you could be physically
Speaker 1: touching people and kissing people. But now we're learning to
Speaker 1: develop a bit more of a connection with someone before
Speaker 1: we meet them, because we had no other choice. People
Speaker 1: spending more time getting to know each other. And I've
Speaker 1: dated all across it. I've dated in COVID and before COVID,
Speaker 1: and I obviously met Jordan in the middle of COVID,
Speaker 1: so I know what the dating was like during that period,
Speaker 1: and I think that we can take a lot of
Speaker 1: what we've learned from dating in COVID into the new
Speaker 1: world post COVID. But anyway, we talking about dating at
Speaker 1: the moment. This is the perfect segue because on today's
Speaker 1: episode we are actually speaking to Logan Yuri. She is
Speaker 1: a behavioral scientist.
Speaker 3: She is the dating coach for Hinge, and she has
Speaker 3: written an awesome book called How to Not Die Alone,
Speaker 3: which we all need well. She like really unpacks the
Speaker 3: importance of human connections. She unpacks like why why we
Speaker 3: would want to not die alone? And for anyone who
Speaker 3: is single, this is going to absolutely be the Gods
Speaker 3: send of an episode for you. But even if you're
Speaker 3: in a relationship, there's so much in this conversation that
Speaker 3: I think we can all take away. She is an
Speaker 3: absolute wealth of wisdom.
Speaker 2: But before we.
Speaker 3: Get into the chat with Logan, of course, there are
Speaker 3: a few other things that we need to unpack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have something big to unpack this week, but
Speaker 1: we're not going to get too in depth. But what
Speaker 1: we did want to talk about, and every single one
Speaker 1: of you, one hundred percent, you know this happened, You
Speaker 1: experienced it, You can't escape it. It was the great
Speaker 1: Facebook outage of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: So Facebook and.
Speaker 1: Everything attached to us, so Instagram and WhatsApp, everything went down.
Speaker 1: Now the world woke up, tried to log onto their
Speaker 1: Instagrams and it just said that there was no connection.
Speaker 1: But everyone just thought it was their own sort of
Speaker 1: Instagram at the time. Even in our group chat for work,
Speaker 1: producer Keisha saying, I'm trying to post some stuff, but
Speaker 1: my Instagram's down. Can you guys do it? And I
Speaker 1: was like, babe, if you check the news, like the
Speaker 1: whole world is down. But the Facebook black aut was
Speaker 1: just the start.
Speaker 3: It is just the tip of the Icebergs, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 3: there is a whole lot more that has been happening
Speaker 3: and going down in regards to Facebook. And when I
Speaker 3: say Facebook for totality, we mean Instagram, WhatsApp, the mothership
Speaker 3: that is the Facebook organization. Now, you may have heard
Speaker 3: of something called Facebook Files, and if you have it,
Speaker 3: I'll give you the brief rundown of what's been happening.
Speaker 3: There is a whistleblower that has come out of Facebook.
Speaker 3: Her name is Francis Horgan, and she has released a
Speaker 3: whole lot of internal research document papers, private documents that
Speaker 3: Facebook doesn't want released, and she has given them up
Speaker 3: to the Wall Street Journal. Now these are what have
Speaker 3: comprised the Facebook Files, and each week more documents are
Speaker 3: being released to public. There's actually an awesome podcast called
Speaker 3: the Facebook Files as well that I got very deep on.
Speaker 3: You can go and have a listen to that if
Speaker 3: you're interested in it as well.
Speaker 1: Basically, what she's saying is she's come out, she's got
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of documents that she has taken with her,
Speaker 1: and she's saying that there is pages and pages of
Speaker 1: evidence that over and over again, Facebook chooses profits over
Speaker 1: safety and there have been so many reports on this
Speaker 1: of their internal research that they have not released for
Speaker 1: a reason. And this is why she's releasing information, because
Speaker 1: she said enough is enough. I've seen the evidence, i
Speaker 1: know what is happening, and I'm going to blow the
Speaker 1: lid on this. And it is just it's so explosive,
Speaker 1: and I feel like people week by week now are
Speaker 1: on the edge of their seat to see what else
Speaker 1: she's going to release. But just in terms of the
Speaker 1: profits over safety, do you know, Laura, that they estimate
Speaker 1: that Mark Zuckerberg in that outage for that like five
Speaker 1: or six hours that it was down, lost about seven
Speaker 1: billion dollars. So I think that that alone is evidence
Speaker 1: that profits are very, very prolific and very important in
Speaker 1: the Facebook industry.
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3: Imagine not going to work for seven hours? Like how
Speaker 3: much money would you lose?
Speaker 1: I'm losing seven billion dollars, I'd lessay seven dollars.
Speaker 3: Fifty wild So this whole whistleblower, like the main things
Speaker 3: that have come out from this is that there are
Speaker 3: several different parts of Facebook that they have kept very secret.
Speaker 3: One of them is this thing called the VIP crosscheck,
Speaker 3: so VIP crosscheck means that any celebrities or Instagram users
Speaker 3: who have amassed millions and millions of followers to a
Speaker 3: different set of standards than what all the rest of
Speaker 3: us Instagram plubs are held to. And now, when I
Speaker 3: say like big prolific Instagram users, I'm talking like you're
Speaker 3: justin Bieber's. I'm talking like your top preme de la
Speaker 3: creme of Instagram. Yeah, they get a hall pass. Essentially,
Speaker 3: Facebook gives them a hall pass.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And what it means is like, if you were to
Speaker 3: post nudity or something that went against Facebook's rules, you
Speaker 3: would very quickly have that content taken down. You would
Speaker 3: either be issued a warning or if it was damning enough,
Speaker 3: they would remove your profile altogether. Now, those same rules
Speaker 3: don't apply to celebrities. The reason that they removed this
Speaker 3: originally did I went deep, guys, I'll tell you that
Speaker 3: the reason why they removed this was because back in
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, Rihanna had her whole entire Instagram taken down
Speaker 3: because she posted a cover photo from a magazine that
Speaker 3: the algorithm thought was too rude. And so Rihanna's entire
Speaker 3: Instagram account was taken down, like millions and millions of followers,
Speaker 3: and so many other similar variations if this has had happened. So,
Speaker 3: instead of dealing with the pr backlash that Facebook was
Speaker 3: rect they basically brought in a new blanket algorithm that
Speaker 3: meant that celebrities and people with huge followers were exempt
Speaker 3: from these rules. Now, there's so many issues with this,
Speaker 3: and the big issue with this is the fact that
Speaker 3: people who have huge followings also have the biggest level
Speaker 3: of accountability, and if somebody who has millions of followers
Speaker 3: is spreading misinformation, then they're not held to the same
Speaker 3: level of accountability. And that misinformation can spread far, and
Speaker 3: it can spread wide, and it doesn't get taken down
Speaker 3: like it would if it was just a general Joe
Speaker 3: blow putting it out there to the universe. The other
Speaker 3: two points just quickly that came out in these Facebook
Speaker 3: files are human trafficking and just how prolific human trafficking
Speaker 3: is across the network, so across Instagram, across Facebook, and
Speaker 3: across WhatsApp, and how people have been trafficked in developing countries,
Speaker 3: and that Facebook's very very much aware of this, and
Speaker 3: how little they've done to try and combat the issue.
Speaker 3: And lastly, one of the things that have come out
Speaker 3: is the huge and profound impact that Facebook and in
Speaker 3: ist is having on teenagers when it comes to their
Speaker 3: self confidence in their body image. And I know that
Speaker 3: this is something that we're also aware of, Like everybody
Speaker 3: knows how rife comparison culture is, and everybody knows that
Speaker 3: there is some toxicity when it comes to body image
Speaker 3: on the platform of Instagram. But this is research that
Speaker 3: has been done internally within Facebook, hard research that says
Speaker 3: that they're very much aware of it, but they're not
Speaker 3: doing anything about it or not doing enough about it.
Speaker 2: I should say.
Speaker 1: The documents that have been released in the Facebook file
Speaker 1: literally show that Instagram is completely aware of the detrimental
Speaker 1: effects that it is having on teenagers and young children.
Speaker 1: So there was a PowerPoint slide created by Facebook research
Speaker 1: themselves in twenty nineteen and it states that Instagram made
Speaker 1: body image issues worse for one in three teenage girls,
Speaker 1: so they know that they've done the research. There was
Speaker 1: another research presentation from twenty twenty, so one year later,
Speaker 1: which was published on Facebook's internal messaging board, so again
Speaker 1: it wasn't really publicly, but it stated that thirty two
Speaker 1: percent of teenage girls said that when they felt bad
Speaker 1: about their bodies, Instagram only made it worse. So here
Speaker 1: Instagram is with this knowledge. Facebook and Instagram they have
Speaker 1: this knowledge, They've done their own research, they know how
Speaker 1: detrimental it can be, and then they've decided, Hey, now
Speaker 1: that we have this information, I have a good idea,
Speaker 1: let's make Instagram for kids.
Speaker 2: And this has sort of had a lot.
Speaker 1: Of people in the world up in arms because they're saying, well,
Speaker 1: hang on, we already know that this isn't a good
Speaker 1: place for many adults and many people that are old
Speaker 1: enough to know the effects and take control of their
Speaker 1: life and the information that they're seeing online. What part
Speaker 1: of knowing this information makes you think, hmm, maybe we
Speaker 1: should get our kids involved. So for me, I have
Speaker 1: my feelings on this, But Laura, what do you think
Speaker 1: about this?
Speaker 3: Well, for anyone who doesn't know what Instagram for kids is, basically,
Speaker 3: the minimum age for Instagram at the moment is thirteen,
Speaker 3: So they're wanting to create a platform that caters towards
Speaker 3: the ten to twelve demographic. Now, there's two camps of
Speaker 3: thoughts when it comes to this. The first one is
Speaker 3: that children are already using Instagram nine year old's. Ten
Speaker 3: year olds are already using Instagram, but they're just using
Speaker 3: it under an alias of being over thirteen. You know,
Speaker 3: they just lie, They check the box, and then they
Speaker 3: create their platforms and their profiles anyway, So creating a
Speaker 3: kid's only a retrofitted kids only Instagram is a place
Speaker 3: that would be safer, as in the content would be
Speaker 3: tailored towards age appropriate content, they wouldn't have ads on there,
Speaker 3: and there's a whole other lot of parental restrictions and
Speaker 3: parental guidance that would be embedded within that app. The
Speaker 3: flip side to this argument, and what so many people
Speaker 3: are calling bullshit on I guess is that the idea
Speaker 3: is if you can cook these young kids, if you
Speaker 3: can hook a ten year old on an app, if
Speaker 3: you can make it become so ingrained in their culture,
Speaker 3: so ingrained in their behavior, then of course they're going
Speaker 3: to migrate to the adult app when the time is right.
Speaker 3: And at the moment, there's so much competition in this space.
Speaker 3: Most young kids are getting onto TikTok, and so many
Speaker 3: of the kids these days, I sound so old saying
Speaker 3: that that I am kids.
Speaker 2: We're so old.
Speaker 3: They're not using Instagram in the same way that we did,
Speaker 3: and their uptake for them using Instagram is declining. So
Speaker 3: getting them onto Instagram Kids is a very very clever
Speaker 3: way of ensuring that the next generation is already signed
Speaker 3: up for Instagram before they've even had time to think
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 1: And look, we do want to present both sides. Whilst
Speaker 1: I just said there was research saying that it was detrimental,
Speaker 1: Facebook's head of research and Zuckerberg himself have both come
Speaker 1: out saying there is also research to say that it
Speaker 1: is beneficial for kids, especially in the pandemic, to have
Speaker 1: stayed connected. And I guess we can't argue that when
Speaker 1: all of a sudden the world has said, hey, to
Speaker 1: all these kids, you can't play with your friends anymore,
Speaker 1: you can't go to the park, you can't go to school.
Speaker 1: Everything's online, school on learning is online. Of course, there
Speaker 1: is an aspect of that to say, hey, of course
Speaker 1: they're going to benefit because they can still stay connected,
Speaker 1: and I don't think we can argue that part. But
Speaker 1: that's not what this is. We're not going to in
Speaker 1: a pandemic in lockdown for the rest of our life.
Speaker 1: Life is going to go back to normal and personally,
Speaker 1: I don't think a child from age ten to twelve,
Speaker 1: I know I wouldn't let my child. I don't think
Speaker 1: they need to be on Instagram. I think the interweb
Speaker 1: can be a very dark and scary place. Anything can
Speaker 1: go on on Instagram, absolutely anything. And I have no
Speaker 1: doubt that Instagram and Facebook are going to be putting
Speaker 1: procedures in place to ensure safety and security. Otherwise they're
Speaker 1: not going to do it like there are one hundred
Speaker 1: billion dollar company. Of course they're going to have that,
Speaker 1: but I just don't think that's enough to stop people
Speaker 1: from doing the wrong thing.
Speaker 3: The big thing about this is that the creation of
Speaker 3: Instagram Kids has been put on hold. They've not stopped it.
Speaker 3: It's just been kind of halted, and it has been
Speaker 3: halted as a cause and effect because of the Facebook
Speaker 3: files and because of this research that's come out.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Adam Massuri, who's the head of Instagram, has come out
Speaker 3: and put a quote, if you google Instagram kids, this
Speaker 3: is what comes up. We wanted to provide an update
Speaker 3: on our work to build an Instagram experience for people
Speaker 3: under the age of thirty, often referred to as Instagram Kids.
Speaker 3: We started this project to address an important problem seen
Speaker 3: across our industry. Kids are getting phones younger and younger,
Speaker 3: misrepresenting their age, and downloading apps that are meant for
Speaker 3: those thirteen or older. We firmly believe that it's better
Speaker 3: for parents to have the option to give their children
Speaker 3: access to a version of Instagram that is designed for them,
Speaker 3: where parents can supervise and control their experiences, rather than
Speaker 3: relying on apps ability to verify the age of kids
Speaker 3: who are too young to have an ID. Okay, So
Speaker 3: the reason why I find this so alarming that this
Speaker 3: is the main response from Instagram is that imagine if
Speaker 3: an alcohol brand came out and said, hey, guys, look,
Speaker 3: we know that there are sixteen year olds out there
Speaker 3: who are drinking booze. Come on, you know it, I
Speaker 3: know it. We know that they're lying. So instead of
Speaker 3: trying to make sure that we have more restrictions in place,
Speaker 3: age appropriate restrictions in place that mean ordered for them
Speaker 3: to buy alcohol, they have to show ID, they have
Speaker 3: to have double verification, whatever it is, We'll just make
Speaker 3: a beverage that's more appealing to them, Like, we'll just
Speaker 3: lower the bar. So I just think it's so wild
Speaker 3: that instead of trying to counter the problem by increasing
Speaker 3: the age to an age where they can verify it
Speaker 3: by someone's ID. The solution to this is to decrease
Speaker 3: the age and try and retro fit the app to
Speaker 3: cater for young kids. Now, the other issue to this
Speaker 3: is that, yes, parental supervision is so important, but no
Speaker 3: parent can supervise comparison culture. The app of Instagram is
Speaker 3: based on comparison. It's based on putting up your best photos,
Speaker 3: it's based on curating your life. There is this element
Speaker 3: of fomo which kids are going to have when they're
Speaker 3: looking at these apps. No amount of parental supervision can
Speaker 3: stop a child from feeling those feelings. And I think
Speaker 3: that that is the big thing, Even without the whole cybersecurity,
Speaker 3: even without worrying about adults getting on there and pretending
Speaker 3: to be kids, just being able to monitor what your
Speaker 3: children see and how that makes them feel is an
Speaker 3: impossibly huge task for parents to do.
Speaker 1: And I think it's hard enough to be a child
Speaker 1: these days anyway, let alone throwing in this extra stress
Speaker 1: and extra comparison. And imagine being a child and just
Speaker 1: seeing every day all your other friends going out and
Speaker 1: doing things and tagging each other and having fun. Whether
Speaker 1: they're doing that or not, you don't know. They could
Speaker 1: be pretending they're they're having a great time, you don't know.
Speaker 1: But the isolation and the increase in buoying I think
Speaker 1: will take place if Instagram Kids goes ahead. I personally
Speaker 1: am going to vote against it. That's where I'm sitting
Speaker 1: at the moment, until I can see some more research
Speaker 1: that's positive.
Speaker 2: It's a no from me. Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: I think the only thing that creating something like Instagram
Speaker 3: Kids is going to do is create another thing for
Speaker 3: parents to have to battle their children on to tell
Speaker 3: them that they can't have it. You know, if you
Speaker 3: don't want your child to have it when they're ten
Speaker 3: years old, you're now faced with such a bigger hurdle
Speaker 3: to try and explain to your child why they can't
Speaker 3: have it when there's an app that's been created saying hey,
Speaker 3: it's specifically for you. I feel like we have covered
Speaker 3: so much of this, but there is I mean, honestly,
Speaker 3: Facebook and Instagram take up so much of our lives now.
Speaker 3: They are so ingrained in our culture, They are so
Speaker 3: ingrained in our every day that we could genuinely talk
Speaker 3: about this forever, and as more of this whole Facebook
Speaker 3: files thing unpacks, I think we probably will touch on
Speaker 3: it again in the future. But before we get into
Speaker 3: the chat with Logan, let's do our favorite part of
Speaker 3: every episode, and that is accidentally unfiltered but also confessionals.
Speaker 2: Now we've got a whole new segment for you guys.
Speaker 1: Now, I just thought this one was so innocent and
Speaker 1: it's got nothing to do with poop. So this is
Speaker 1: why I've brote.
Speaker 2: Thanks you so much've chosen it today.
Speaker 3: I feel like so many people are like, ladies, enough
Speaker 3: enough with that.
Speaker 1: Yet, But I just want to highlight the fact that
Speaker 1: we don't go looking for the poop. Eight out of
Speaker 1: ten of you get right in is about poop, Like
Speaker 1: the poop stories are just so prevalent that we don't
Speaker 1: really have a choice. We have to sift through the
Speaker 1: poop to get to the non poop anyway.
Speaker 3: Doesn't it also just make you realize, if you're listening
Speaker 3: to this, that everybody has a poop story, Like.
Speaker 2: You all have a story.
Speaker 3: Anybody who has an issue with us talking about it,
Speaker 3: I get it. You know, it's not for everyone, but
Speaker 3: even you have a story that you haven't told us,
Speaker 3: so just keep that in mind for next time.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So my sister and I were heading home last night
Speaker 1: behind our parents' car after a very long and sad
Speaker 1: day at the hospital spending time with our sick nana.
Speaker 1: Earlier that day, I had started listening to Tuesday's Manifestation episode.
Speaker 1: Next thing you know, we're getting a call from my
Speaker 1: dad and I'm like, that's weird. I just left him
Speaker 1: and he's right in front of us. Why the fuck
Speaker 1: am I listening to two girls talk about what creams
Speaker 1: you can use on your didos and vibrates? Little did
Speaker 1: I know my phone had connected to my bluetoothing mom
Speaker 1: and dad's car. As they're sad going home from the hospital,
Speaker 1: they're listening to what you guys would put on your
Speaker 1: dialdo dead. I absolutely lost it. It actually made all
Speaker 1: of our day.
Speaker 3: Coconut oil, just just coconut oil, nothing else or actual loop.
Speaker 1: Imagine driving home from the hospital and like you're so
Speaker 1: down and out and you're in the car and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, our voices come on talking about
Speaker 1: what products you can put on your dial nos.
Speaker 2: Vagina's the dad, Just like, what the fuck am I listening?
Speaker 2: To hit the sisters just lost it. Fuck.
Speaker 3: It started off really dark and really grim, and then
Speaker 3: it got there in the end, really brought it home.
Speaker 2: Brittany, What have you got for me today?
Speaker 3: These Confessionals? I just want to say, guys, it's a
Speaker 3: new segment. Like we said last week, we didn't really
Speaker 3: know where we were going with it. Like, I'll be honest,
Speaker 3: we were like, we were like, we're just gonna throw.
Speaker 2: It out there.
Speaker 3: We want to know you're deepest, darkest secrets, and we're
Speaker 3: gonna share them anonymously with all of you. Now, I
Speaker 3: know that there was some chatter in the Facebook grouping
Speaker 3: about Confessionals, and I just want to say one thing.
Speaker 3: We don't condone any of this. We're not here saying like, yes,
Speaker 3: this comes with no judgment. We're not here saying yes
Speaker 3: or no, don't shoot the messenger. We are literally just
Speaker 3: sharing with you guys some of the cookshit that comes
Speaker 3: over Instagram. So please don't think that just because we
Speaker 3: share this with you, that that's us saying we would
Speaker 3: do the same thing.
Speaker 2: We probably wouldn't do any of these things. Nah, we
Speaker 2: probably would. They could laugh.
Speaker 3: All right, So I'm gonna hit you with my top three.
Speaker 3: I think that this is how we're gonna do it.
Speaker 3: We're gonna do like one accidently unfiltered in three quick
Speaker 3: confessionals each week.
Speaker 2: Well, let's see, I think so.
Speaker 1: But I mean, we have to really control ourselves not
Speaker 1: to do like twenty five confessionals because they're so good.
Speaker 1: So I think we need to like stock them up.
Speaker 3: Okay, strap yourself in, ladies and gentlemen, here we go.
Speaker 3: My sister moved out a few months ago and left
Speaker 3: her electric toothbrush in our shared bathroom, and I've been
Speaker 3: using it as a vibrator ever since.
Speaker 2: Ha ha. Just buy your own. Just get your own
Speaker 2: fin not that expensive, get yourself a little rabbit.
Speaker 1: To be fair, you're definitely gonna save money. My problem
Speaker 1: is not that you have improvised my problems, that you've
Speaker 1: improvised with someone else's toothbrush.
Speaker 2: Like, just go and buy your own.
Speaker 1: Dude brush.
Speaker 3: Have you ever Okay, you're gonna say no to this
Speaker 3: because you never shit use someone else's toothbrush to masturbate.
Speaker 2: I can handle my heart say that.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, have you ever used anything that
Speaker 3: wasn't something that was purposefully built for mass? Thirty with
Speaker 3: it wasn't a dildo, or it wasn't a vibrator, and
Speaker 3: you're gonna say no because you won't share it with
Speaker 3: the Daily Mail because we all know that will end
Speaker 3: up in an article.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I'm very filtered on this podcast. I
Speaker 1: actually haven't our hands down. Cannot think of one thing
Speaker 1: that I would have used.
Speaker 3: Have you no, But but we have received a lot
Speaker 3: of people writing and saying that they've used their phone,
Speaker 3: which I get it, but it's weird to hold it
Speaker 3: and then other people touch it.
Speaker 1: And it's an awkward shade.
Speaker 3: I don't think they're shoving the whole thing inside them
Speaker 3: for it. I think they just might be using a
Speaker 3: vibrate function. Do they just put it on there and
Speaker 3: wait for a text? Like what if you don't have
Speaker 3: any friends? What if no one messages your call? Someone
Speaker 3: keeps calling and you're like, You're like, why aren't you answering?
Speaker 3: You're like just calling, I can't talk right now?
Speaker 2: Calling back?
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Well we did say we're going to
Speaker 3: stay away from shit, but then I lied because this
Speaker 3: one is definitely about poop. Okay, my poo wouldn't flush
Speaker 3: at work, so I had to get it out with
Speaker 3: hands and put it in the sanitary bin.
Speaker 2: Is at the end of the confessional.
Speaker 3: I'll give you guys one more before we go and
Speaker 3: jump into this chat with Logan, my now boyfriend of
Speaker 3: four years was ignoring me when we were in that
Speaker 3: situationship stage of our relationship. He went radio silence on
Speaker 3: me with absolutely no explanation. So naturally I was pretty
Speaker 3: pissed off and confused, so I attached his work phone
Speaker 3: number to a gum Tree ad for free baby Angora rabbits.
Speaker 3: He said he got over one hundred calls in the
Speaker 3: first hour and couldn't even decline them because he was
Speaker 3: waiting for a call from a new work related job.
Speaker 3: I've never told him that it was me, and.
Speaker 2: So she's still with him.
Speaker 1: She's how do you I would never that would never
Speaker 1: cross my mind. But I tell you what, I'm getting
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas from you guys. Jud never bring
Speaker 1: up with me.
Speaker 3: It would never cross my mind either. But I also
Speaker 3: love it. It's like really clean payback.
Speaker 2: It is do you know what? Actually? Do you want
Speaker 2: to know something really funny?
Speaker 1: This is just really quick. I was seming but not
Speaker 1: really involved it. When I found out that my ex
Speaker 1: had a double life, right, Lo, cute.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know what you did. It wasn't me.
Speaker 1: But when we both found out, obviously we both left him.
Speaker 1: But she, the other woman, ended up telling me what
Speaker 1: she did. She's like, I was just so mad, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, what did you do?
Speaker 1: So she went back to the house so like once
Speaker 1: and four, we'll take all her stuff. And she just
Speaker 1: thought this was hilarious. She just went around and took
Speaker 1: every tissue paper and toilet paper in the whole house,
Speaker 1: so that next time you did a shitty had nothing
Speaker 1: to wipe his butt with.
Speaker 2: And I was like, that is not payback for someone
Speaker 2: having a double life.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you need to you need to listen to
Speaker 1: this podcast to get some ideas. I'm like, cute, but
Speaker 1: I don't think that's gonna cut it, mate. She needs
Speaker 1: to get out more. I feel like you could just
Speaker 1: have a shower once again. Live through a global pandemic
Speaker 1: where there's been no toilet paper, it's fine, just have
Speaker 1: a shower. Keep those coming in, keep the accidental unfiltereds,
Speaker 1: the ass gun carts, the confessionals. I can't believe they
Speaker 1: said that anything fucked up that happens in your life.
Speaker 1: Basically keep that coming into our Instagram Life on Cut podcast.
Speaker 1: But now it's time to get ino. The chat with
Speaker 1: Logan Uri. He was so interesting. I absolutely love this chat.
Speaker 1: I really did. I had the greatest time. We had
Speaker 1: so much fun recording it, and I think everyone's going
Speaker 1: to benefit from it. Logan your is a behavioral scientist
Speaker 1: turned dating coach, and let's be real, that is exactly
Speaker 1: what we need here at Life Uncut. It is definitely
Speaker 1: what I know I needed in my twenties. But Logan
Speaker 1: is also the author of best selling book How To
Speaker 1: Not Die Alone, and I absolutely love that title. We're
Speaker 1: definitely going to get into that. But on top of that,
Speaker 1: Logan is the director of Relationship Science at HINGE and
Speaker 1: she leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love.
Speaker 1: So what better person to have on Life Uncut today?
Speaker 1: Logan from America. Welcome to Life Uncut.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 3: Now, Logan, we have a section that we do with
Speaker 3: every single guest who comes on the podcast, and it's
Speaker 3: called Accidentally Unfiltered, and it's where you share with us
Speaker 3: your most embarrassing story and I know you've been prepped
Speaker 3: on this, so I am I cannot wait to hear
Speaker 3: the wildest, most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you is.
Speaker 4: I know, I know. I definitely considered not sharing this,
Speaker 4: but I'll tell you the story.
Speaker 2: So have you ever heard.
Speaker 4: Of a book called The Giver?
Speaker 2: NOI noie.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm not sure if this is huge internationally, but basically,
Speaker 4: when I was in sixth grade, I read this book
Speaker 4: called The Giver and it was just like this first
Speaker 4: time in my life where I was like, I'm a
Speaker 4: conscious person with deep thoughts and wow, the world is
Speaker 4: a big, scary place. And it just was a very
Speaker 4: meaningful book for me in terms of my intellectual development.
Speaker 4: And I read it in one night and it just
Speaker 4: it always stuck with me. It was this really deep book.
Speaker 4: So then when I was a sophomore in college, I
Speaker 4: found out that Lois Lowry, who had written The Giver,
Speaker 4: was coming to speak to my class. And they said
Speaker 4: a couple students will be chosen at random to go
Speaker 4: have lunch with Lois Lowry, and I went out to
Speaker 4: the teacher afterwards and I was like, I will not
Speaker 4: be waiting around to see if I'm chosen, I will
Speaker 4: be at this lunch with Lois Lowry, like I need
Speaker 4: to meet Lois Lowry. I was like, I will be there,
Speaker 4: and she's like okay, like sounds like you really like her.
Speaker 4: So we went to this lunch with her, and I
Speaker 4: was like sitting next to her and telling her all
Speaker 4: these things about how much I loved her, like probably
Speaker 4: coming on really strong. And then I brought at the
Speaker 4: time was you know, a digital camera. I was like
Speaker 4: pre iPhone, and I had the waiter take two photos
Speaker 4: of us, and I like put my arm around Lois
Speaker 4: Lowry and I was so proud, and so then I
Speaker 4: asked her like, oh, you know, I'd love to send
Speaker 4: you the picture. So she wrote her email address on
Speaker 4: a napkin, which was something like Lois at Lowry dot
Speaker 4: com or something like that. So I went home that
Speaker 4: night and I uploaded the photos and then I sent
Speaker 4: her an email saying like hey Lois, like so nice
Speaker 4: to meet you, Thanks for a great day, like here
Speaker 4: are the photos. And I bcced like all my friends
Speaker 4: and family to be like, you know how much I
Speaker 4: love Lois Lowry, like look at this. And then my sister,
Speaker 4: who's very sassy. It called me and she's like, I
Speaker 4: think you should check the pictures that you sent in
Speaker 4: that email. And so basically I had taken two photos
Speaker 4: at lunch, and so I attached two photos. But instead
Speaker 4: of attaching the two photos from lunch, one photo was
Speaker 4: from lunch and one photo was from right after lunch,
Speaker 4: which was that like I lived in a dorm room
Speaker 4: and I would hand wash my underwear and then like
Speaker 4: stroke threw it throughout the room. So I was like
Speaker 4: hanging like in all these different directions on my room,
Speaker 4: and I thought it looked really funny. So I took
Speaker 4: a picture by underwear.
Speaker 2: Hanging, and that's what you sent it to.
Speaker 4: So instead of sending two pictures to lunch, it was
Speaker 4: one from the lunch and one.
Speaker 1: Of all of my underwear.
Speaker 4: Like you're a super fan, but I s yes, exactly.
Speaker 4: So it was like I had come on so strong,
Speaker 4: and then I sent my favorite author a picture by underwear.
Speaker 2: At least you didn't send her a nude.
Speaker 1: I have done this, Logan actually more time, and I
Speaker 1: can to admit.
Speaker 3: Logan, tell us a little bit about how you became
Speaker 3: a behavioral scientist, what your background is there, and how
Speaker 3: you morphed that career into becoming a dating guru.
Speaker 4: So my background is in psychology. I studied psychology at Harvard,
Speaker 4: and I've always just been so interested in human behavior.
Speaker 4: It's really interesting to look at why do people do
Speaker 4: the things they do, Why do we make the decisions
Speaker 4: we make, why do we often act out of our
Speaker 4: own best interest? And so I've always just been so
Speaker 4: fascinated by the way that people act. And so I
Speaker 4: was able to turn that interest in psychology into this
Speaker 4: role at Google running the behavioral science team. And so
Speaker 4: what that team did is it says, all right, there's
Speaker 4: this field called behavioral science, which is a fancy way
Speaker 4: of saying how do people make decisions? And if you
Speaker 4: understand how people make decisions, you can change their behavior.
Speaker 4: And so let's say it's something like, if I send
Speaker 4: you an email that says, brit fill out this survey,
Speaker 4: it'll take twenty minutes, versus if I send you an
Speaker 4: email that says, brit fill out the survey, it'll take
Speaker 4: two minutes. You're much more likely to do it if
Speaker 4: it's two minutes, right, because you're like, that's no big
Speaker 4: deal versus twenty minutes is so big.
Speaker 2: Then I feel like I'd complain when it takes me
Speaker 2: twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: I'd feel like she said it was something two minutes.
Speaker 4: No, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: You can't.
Speaker 4: I don't think you should lie about how long the
Speaker 4: survey is, but I think you should understand, like what
Speaker 4: is the amount of time in which someone will take
Speaker 4: action or not? And so with behavioral science, I was
Speaker 4: really able to apply all these cool academic theories to
Speaker 4: designing Google products, designing Google marketing, changing the behavior of
Speaker 4: people who work at Google, like in this corporate environment.
Speaker 4: But while I was there, I was like, I'm single,
Speaker 4: I am using dating apps, and I'm having a hard time.
Speaker 4: And all these genius wizards at Google who invented the Internet,
Speaker 4: all these people are having a hard time, and what
Speaker 4: can I do about it? And so I started this
Speaker 4: series called Toxic Google Modern Romance, where I would bring
Speaker 4: in experts to come talk to me about how do
Speaker 4: you communicate in a digital world, what is the deal
Speaker 4: with non monogamy, how do you overcome the paradox of
Speaker 4: choice and online dating? And I talk to them about
Speaker 4: all these things, and through that I was like, this
Speaker 4: is really my purpose, Like I am on Earth to
Speaker 4: help people find love, to help people answer these questions.
Speaker 4: And the unique way that I'm going to do it
Speaker 4: is taking what I know about psychology and decision making
Speaker 4: and applying it to dating. And so I do that
Speaker 4: one on one. I do dating coaching with people where
Speaker 4: I'm like, this is your blind spot, this is what's
Speaker 4: holding you back. Here's how we're going to change it.
Speaker 4: But then I also did it through my book in
Speaker 4: terms of saying to anyone reading this, like, these are
Speaker 4: the common mistakes that people make, and here's how to
Speaker 4: overcome them. And then I get to do it at
Speaker 4: an even larger scale at Hinge with millions of people
Speaker 4: using the app and really saying like, let's help people
Speaker 4: stop ghosting, let's help people date safely during COVID, Let's
Speaker 4: help people video date as a low pressure vibe check.
Speaker 4: And so for me, it's all about my goal is
Speaker 4: to help people find love. But what I can add
Speaker 4: to the space is saying, let's break it down to
Speaker 4: these micro moments and help you make better decisions along
Speaker 4: the way.
Speaker 1: Which one came first? How did you get your job
Speaker 1: at Hinge? Did the book come first? And all your
Speaker 1: other interests in research? And then Hinge was like, hey,
Speaker 1: we could really add her to our team. Or did
Speaker 1: the book come after? Did you go to Hinge and
Speaker 1: just say I love love, I want to fix the world.
Speaker 1: I want to help the world. Following love, give me
Speaker 1: a job.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting question for anyone who's listening and
Speaker 4: is thinking about making a career change, because for me,
Speaker 4: I was just like, not everyone's finds their passion, but
Speaker 4: I had really found mine. It was all about dating
Speaker 4: and navigating online dating. And so between Google and Hinge,
Speaker 4: I actually worked at Airbnb and I had an awesome job,
Speaker 4: like Airbb's a great company and I love traveling and
Speaker 4: my coworkers were great. But I was just like, I
Speaker 4: have to pursue this love thing, and so I quit
Speaker 4: my job and I just said, I'm going to figure
Speaker 4: it out. And I went step by step towards where
Speaker 4: I am now. And so one of the steps was
Speaker 4: getting a book deal, and in telling people about the
Speaker 4: book and writing the book and talking about the interviews
Speaker 4: I did. An acquaintance of mine worked at Hinge and
Speaker 4: knew about this open role on the Hinge Labs team
Speaker 4: and said, let's interview my friend Logan, And through writing
Speaker 4: the book. I kind of put my name out there
Speaker 4: as a person doing this work, and obviously a book
Speaker 4: has like gravitas. I was able to do research, I
Speaker 4: had a point of view, and then the fact that
Speaker 4: I had written this book and had this reputation is
Speaker 4: what got me the hinge job.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about your book for a second, how to
Speaker 3: Not Die Alone. I feel like the title says it all.
Speaker 3: We all need it, we all need and you know,
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing, right. One of the reasons
Speaker 3: why we got so interested in doing this podcast is
Speaker 3: because relationships are at the epicenter of what make people happy.
Speaker 3: You know, It's what we strive for, connection and love
Speaker 3: in our life. But we all seem to navigate it,
Speaker 3: or not all of us. Some of us seem to
Speaker 3: do a pretty good job, but so many of us
Speaker 3: struggle in this area, and so many of us feel
Speaker 3: like we're completely out of our depths. What was your
Speaker 3: motivator for writing How to Not Die Alone?
Speaker 4: I felt like I had something to add to the
Speaker 4: conversation because a lot of my clients are very successful people.
Speaker 4: They have a beautiful group of friends, they love their jobs,
Speaker 4: they have great relationships with their families, and so they
Speaker 4: felt very blocked. They said, dating, is this one part
Speaker 4: of my life that hasn't worked out for me. I'm
Speaker 4: willing to put in effort. What am I not getting?
Speaker 4: What am I doing wrong? And so I really felt
Speaker 4: like there was just a huge problem area people who
Speaker 4: were wonderful and could be great companions, who were desperate
Speaker 4: to find love, but they were repeating the same mistakes
Speaker 4: over and over again, and they needed somebody to come
Speaker 4: in and say, here's what you're doing wrong, here's the
Speaker 4: myths that you're following, here's how to change your behavior,
Speaker 4: here's what to do instead. And so what felt exciting
Speaker 4: for me about the book was taking everything I'd learned
Speaker 4: from my research, everything I'd learned from coaching, everything I'd
Speaker 4: learned from academics, and saying here's an a to zy
Speaker 4: guide to finding love.
Speaker 3: You touched on something just then, you said, these are
Speaker 3: the myths that you're following. What are some of the
Speaker 3: myths that you've found, And especially in your day to
Speaker 3: day when you have clients that come to you from
Speaker 3: a personal, one on one coaching, what are some of
Speaker 3: the biggest myths that you find people subscribe to when
Speaker 3: it comes to dating.
Speaker 4: So one thing that happens to me pretty often is
Speaker 4: somebody shows up for our first session and says, logan,
Speaker 4: I've been on one hundred dates in the last three years.
Speaker 4: Here's my spreadsheet of all the dates I've been on,
Speaker 4: and I want you to analyze the spreadsheet and tell
Speaker 4: me what kind of person should I be with and
Speaker 4: what should I do. And there's this feeling of like,
Speaker 4: I've been on so many dates, how hasn't it worked
Speaker 4: out yet? And what I feel sometimes with these people
Speaker 4: is that if they weren't talking to me, they could
Speaker 4: go on one hundred more dates and it also wouldn't
Speaker 4: work out. Because it's not just I haven't found him yet,
Speaker 4: or it's not just an issue of timing. That person
Speaker 4: is bringing something to dating that is holding them back.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's their mindset, Sometimes it's their expectations. Sometimes it's
Speaker 4: an attitude of this will never work. Sometimes they're so
Speaker 4: disconnected from their body and their sexuality that they're not
Speaker 4: attracted to anyone and they're putting a wall up. And so, yes,
Speaker 4: you do need to go on dates, and effort is
Speaker 4: part of it. But if all you're doing is showing
Speaker 4: up but you're not changing your behavior. You could go
Speaker 4: on one hundred more dates and nothing would shift.
Speaker 1: Just out of curiosity for the clients that do come
Speaker 1: to see you. Is it more skewed to the women
Speaker 1: clients than men? Do you still get a lot of
Speaker 1: men that come to you for help as well?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been fascinating how many male clients I have.
Speaker 4: I mean, in general, the dating and relationships industry skews
Speaker 4: very female, right. Women are the ones who go to workshops,
Speaker 4: who buy the books, who care about self help, who
Speaker 4: prioritize spending money on dating. That's sort of a general
Speaker 4: trend of the industry. But I think because I use
Speaker 4: terms like sunk cost, fallacy and loss of version and
Speaker 4: status quo bias, something about grounding it in that science
Speaker 4: and research has made me feel like a safe confidant
Speaker 4: for men, and so about I wonder At any given time,
Speaker 4: probably between twenty five and thirty five percent of my
Speaker 4: clients are men. And it's been really interesting because I
Speaker 4: think it helps me get that perspective that then informs
Speaker 4: what I say to my female clients. And so obviously
Speaker 4: not all of my clients are straight, and so I
Speaker 4: have clients of different gender identities and sexual orientations in general,
Speaker 4: but among my straight clients, it's really helpful to go
Speaker 4: back to back from a forty three year old man
Speaker 4: to a forty three year old woman and see how
Speaker 4: does my advice change, how do their experiences change? And
Speaker 4: really so much of you know, what I advise people
Speaker 4: in my book and in general, is from these one
Speaker 4: to one interactions where I'm like, this person started here,
Speaker 4: I gave them this advice, they ran this experiment, this
Speaker 4: is how they found love, and now I can kind
Speaker 4: of turn that into generalized advice that hopefully a lot
Speaker 4: of people can use.
Speaker 3: Logan talk me through what are the three dating tendencies?
Speaker 3: And I know that in your book you've put them
Speaker 3: into categories that we kind of fall into and the
Speaker 3: same sort of traps that we make when we are dating.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. Okay, that's a perfect follow up question because
Speaker 4: when I talk about people coming to me with dating
Speaker 4: blind spots, it's often these three dating tendencies. And so
Speaker 4: for anyone listening, they can take the quiz on my website.
Speaker 4: It's logan uri dot com slash quiz, and it's all
Speaker 4: about figuring out why am I repeating the same mistakes
Speaker 4: over and over again. And so the first dating tendency
Speaker 4: is the romanticizer. And this is the person maybe you
Speaker 4: are like this, who loves love. This is the person
Speaker 4: who says, I know exactly what my soulmate is going
Speaker 4: to look like. I'm not going to use dating apps
Speaker 4: because they're not romantic. I want to have a really
Speaker 4: special how we met story. We're going to be at
Speaker 4: the farmer's market and reach for the same avocado at
Speaker 4: the same time, and we're going to fall in love.
Speaker 4: And they're very focused on the narrative and the story.
Speaker 4: They love love, and they're not really willing to be
Speaker 4: flexible because they're so focused on this one Disney rom
Speaker 4: com version of love. And the issue with the romanticizer
Speaker 4: is that they're not willing to put themselves out there
Speaker 4: because they think love will come to them and that
Speaker 4: when they do get into relationship, they expect it to
Speaker 4: be easy and effortless, which of course relationships aren't. And
Speaker 4: so the work for the romanticizer is to be more
Speaker 4: open minded about how you meet someone, what package they
Speaker 4: come in, and to also understand that love takes a
Speaker 4: lot of work.
Speaker 1: I actually did your quiz, Oh yeah, what did you get?
Speaker 1: And I have a question about it. Sure, I did
Speaker 1: the quiz, guys, and super quick background on myself logan.
Speaker 1: I am currently in a relationship that I've been in
Speaker 1: just this year, but before that, I was single for
Speaker 1: like the best part of a decade, and I had
Speaker 1: This is how this podcast came up. I had the
Speaker 1: most tumultuous, fucked up, toxic, hilarious dating life.
Speaker 2: You've it.
Speaker 1: You couldn't write it. I scored on your quiz all three.
Speaker 1: So it says that I scored very highly on all
Speaker 1: three tendencies.
Speaker 2: What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Does that mean I don't know what the hell is
Speaker 1: going on in my head?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: I mean some people do score highly on all of them,
Speaker 4: and then it really becomes a question of which is
Speaker 4: the one that's most dominant for you. And so there's
Speaker 4: nothing wrong with you if you scored highly on all
Speaker 4: three of them, but it is helped to know, like,
Speaker 4: here's my dominant one. So I'll explain the other two
Speaker 4: and then let's try to figure out for you which
Speaker 4: one is your big tendency. So I talked about the
Speaker 4: romanticizer and the next one is the maximizer, and so
Speaker 4: this is the person who says, uh, you know, the
Speaker 4: person I'm dating is fine, but couldn't there be somebody
Speaker 4: better out there? Or I like my boyfriend, but I
Speaker 4: wish you were ten percent more ambitious, or five percent hotter,
Speaker 4: or twenty percent got along better with my family. And
Speaker 4: it's like there's this image in their mind if they
Speaker 4: can put this Frankenstein person together and have this ideal partner.
Speaker 4: And the issue with the maximizer is that they always
Speaker 4: they don't look at the person in front of them
Speaker 4: and invest in the relationship and build. They always think,
Speaker 4: I'll keep swiping or I'll keep dating because there'll be
Speaker 4: somebody else out there. And so the advice from me
Speaker 4: to the maximizer is, relationships are about finding somebody great,
Speaker 4: investing in them, and building it. It's not about looking
Speaker 4: around for the perfect person, because nobody's perfect. It's about
Speaker 4: the relationship that you build.
Speaker 1: And what is number three?
Speaker 4: The third one is the hesitator, which is somebody who
Speaker 4: doesn't put themselves out there at all. They think, oh,
Speaker 4: I'll be lovable if I lose ten pounds, I'll be
Speaker 4: lovable if I get a more impressive job. I need
Speaker 4: to clean my apartment, I need more money in the bank,
Speaker 4: whatever it is, and so they're actually afraid of dating
Speaker 4: because they feel like, oh, I'm just not ready for
Speaker 4: dating yet. And so the thing about the hesitator is
Speaker 4: that you can only get better at dating by actually dating,
Speaker 4: and you can only figure out what kind of person
Speaker 4: you want to be with by going on dates with
Speaker 4: different types of people. And so the advice for the
Speaker 4: hesitator is to actually stop hesitating, stop waiting, and start dating.
Speaker 1: I think that that's a really important point too, before
Speaker 1: we get into what's wrong with me.
Speaker 4: I'm happy with my personal trolla that can weigh, that
Speaker 4: can wait.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a really important point that what
Speaker 1: you said. It's like anything else in life. You don't
Speaker 1: wake up and become a psychologist. You don't become good
Speaker 1: at something. You don't wake up and say I'm going
Speaker 1: to start surfing tomorrow, go out into the ocean. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're a professional surfar. Things take time,
Speaker 1: and things take practice, and things take effort and work.
Speaker 1: And dating is no different. And I know how much
Speaker 1: better I was such a killer data by the end
Speaker 1: of the ten years, I was like snapping through days.
Speaker 1: I knew what was what I never got nerves. I
Speaker 1: was so confident, but it's because I did so much effort.
Speaker 1: So I think that's something to reiterate to everybody, is like,
Speaker 1: you're only going to get better and more comfortable if
Speaker 1: you actually go out and do the job exactly.
Speaker 3: I also think on that as well. Brett like this
Speaker 3: idea of we should just be good at dating, like
Speaker 3: we should just be able to find someone and love
Speaker 3: should just happen. But like the reality is, so many
Speaker 3: people find it so challenging. It is so difficult to
Speaker 3: have a great relationship with someone and to be able
Speaker 3: to build good communication skills. And you know, we get
Speaker 3: taught everything in school. We get taught fucking Pythagoras's theorem,
Speaker 3: which we never use in life, but nobody teaches us
Speaker 3: how to really communicate with our partners and to build
Speaker 3: a strong and lasting relationship. And if you don't have
Speaker 3: that role model in your own home, like if you
Speaker 3: don't have that from your parents, or you don't have
Speaker 3: it from other people to see what is a healthy relationship,
Speaker 3: then what do you have?
Speaker 2: What TV? You have shows?
Speaker 3: Like I don't think that we necessarily have been brought up,
Speaker 3: especially our generation, with great conversations around how to find
Speaker 3: a partner, how to keep a partner, and how to
Speaker 3: build on that relationship.
Speaker 1: Now do you see logan? Which tendency do you see
Speaker 1: the most? Like after just I'm just reading them as
Speaker 1: we're talking now, and I definitely think the maximizers not me.
Speaker 1: I think I'm more of a even though I scored
Speaker 1: high on all of them. I think I'm the romanticizer
Speaker 1: and a hesitator for a long time, and I know
Speaker 1: a lot of.
Speaker 2: Our listeners are too.
Speaker 1: I was definitely a hesitator in terms of I really wanted,
Speaker 1: Like our tagline on this show is we love love
Speaker 1: like that is our tagline. So definitely the romanticizer and
Speaker 1: I do love love and it's all I've ever wanted.
Speaker 1: But for the best part of I don't know, five
Speaker 1: or six seven years, I was a hesitator and I
Speaker 1: wanted to love so badly, but I never thought I
Speaker 1: was good enough and I never thought I was deserving enough.
Speaker 1: And I was almost embarrassed to go on a date
Speaker 1: with someone because I thought that they would look at
Speaker 1: me and be like, oh, you're so disappointing, Like You're
Speaker 1: not what I thought. And I had this comparison sing drum,
Speaker 1: and so I think for me and for a lot
Speaker 1: of our listeners, I feel like the hesitator would be
Speaker 1: a really big one.
Speaker 2: Is that what you.
Speaker 1: Find would be the strongest tendency from people that come
Speaker 1: to see you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great question. I was going to guess
Speaker 4: that you are a romanticizer, partially because you have this podcast,
Speaker 4: but also just the way that you present yourself. And
Speaker 4: so I would say, like baseline, I figured you weren't
Speaker 4: a hesitator right now because you are in a relationship.
Speaker 4: And so if you are listening and you're wondering which
Speaker 4: one you are, if you're just not putting yourself out
Speaker 4: there at all, the hesitator tendency is probably strongest for you.
Speaker 4: And if not the maximizer, I would really say, it's
Speaker 4: are you someone who says what else is out there?
Speaker 4: And then for the romanticizer, it's are you someone who's
Speaker 4: very anchored on a specific way that love will look
Speaker 4: and feel. For my clients, actually, before my book came out,
Speaker 4: I would say a lot of my clients were romanticizers
Speaker 4: or maximizers. So the romanticizers were often people who came
Speaker 4: and said, my parents have this beautiful relationship and I'll
Speaker 4: never have something like that, and a lot of kind
Speaker 4: of disappointment around not having this Disney fairy tale love story.
Speaker 4: And then because I live in Silicon Valley in California,
Speaker 4: I had a lot of engineers people who were saying,
Speaker 4: I want to optimize my relationship, I want to find
Speaker 4: the perfect one, I want to research my way to it.
Speaker 4: And hesitators didn't find me because they weren't putting themselves
Speaker 4: out there enough to work with me. But I knew
Speaker 4: that they were there. Now, since my book has come out,
Speaker 4: and since we're eighteen months into the pandemic, so many
Speaker 4: people are hesitators because this has been the perfect moment
Speaker 4: for people to say, I'll date when coronavirus is over,
Speaker 4: I'll date when I know where I'm living, and people
Speaker 4: are making a lot of excuses, and a lot of
Speaker 4: people have taken this time off from dating, and then
Speaker 4: unfortunately now many people feel behind.
Speaker 3: Do you find as well that there's a bit of
Speaker 3: a conversation that happens where there's a pendulum that swings
Speaker 3: and we get this question that comes in all the time.
Speaker 3: We do a section called osk on cot and it's
Speaker 3: between this fear of settling, but also this fear of
Speaker 3: feeling like their expectations are too high. Where is that
Speaker 3: sweet spot? How does somebody know if they're settling in
Speaker 3: a relationship, or how does on the flip side of that,
Speaker 3: someone know if the bar that they're expecting in a
Speaker 3: partner is just way too high for what's realistic in
Speaker 3: someone You.
Speaker 4: Really nailed it. That's one of the main questions that
Speaker 4: people ask me. They come in, They say, am I
Speaker 4: too picky? Or am I not picky enough? And my
Speaker 4: response is that you are allowed to be picky, but
Speaker 4: about the things that matter. And so if you are
Speaker 4: rejecting guys who are not tall enough or don't make
Speaker 4: enough money, you're making a lot of assumptions around what
Speaker 4: you need and what will make you happy, long term
Speaker 4: assumptions that we are often wrong about. But where I
Speaker 4: think you can be less picky, Oh sorry, that's where
Speaker 4: I think you can be less picky around superficial resume qualities, height, income, etc.
Speaker 4: Where I want you to be pickier is in terms
Speaker 4: of is this person reliable? Is this person honest? Does
Speaker 4: this person treat you with respect? Do you admire them?
Speaker 4: Do you respect them? Can you make hard decisions with them.
Speaker 4: Do you feel like this is a person who you
Speaker 4: can build a life with. And so it's about being
Speaker 4: picky on the things that matter long term and giving
Speaker 4: up on the things that are not as important some
Speaker 4: of the superficial traits like hate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is how I knew that I was
Speaker 1: a really big hesitator, and Laura really liked to point
Speaker 1: that out to me. Often. I would go on dates
Speaker 1: and that the guy would be great, the talk had
Speaker 1: been great, the banter had been great. On paper, they
Speaker 1: were fantastic, and I'd come back and Laura was like,
Speaker 1: how was it? And I was like, oh, can't see
Speaker 1: him again. She's like why not. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: he wore a salmon shirt, or he wore socks and sandals,
Speaker 1: or like it's a no. And I would just try
Speaker 1: and find any any fault that I could. That was ridiculous,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you can change socks and sandals. You
Speaker 1: just take the socks off, don't buy them socks anymore,
Speaker 1: Like you can change that.
Speaker 3: I feel like the common and reoccurring theme with you,
Speaker 3: Britt was like you were always like, oh, he likes
Speaker 3: me too much now, and it's all too much too quickly,
Speaker 3: like I can't handle a guy who actually likes me.
Speaker 2: I want him to be mained me.
Speaker 3: To start with, we did an episode very recently around attraction,
Speaker 3: and I think you kind of just touched on it
Speaker 3: a little bit, but I'd love to get your opinions
Speaker 3: on this. We discussed whether attraction is essential in a
Speaker 3: relationship to start with, whether it's something that can build.
Speaker 3: How important do you think it is that there is
Speaker 3: that initial spark or chemistry with someone in order to
Speaker 3: continue a relationship, and at what point does attraction actually
Speaker 3: need to be in a relationship for it to last
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 4: This is one of the big points from my book
Speaker 4: that has really taken off, and I've been happy to
Speaker 4: have a little bit of a tagline, which is f
Speaker 4: the spark and so what that means is that almost
Speaker 4: word for word what Britney said. I used to have
Speaker 4: these coaching clients who would go on dates and they
Speaker 4: would say, Logan, I met this woman. She was beautiful
Speaker 4: and engaging and we had a great conversation. It was
Speaker 4: a really good date. Dot dot dot, I'm not going
Speaker 4: to see her again. I would say, what are you
Speaker 4: talking about? And they would say, I just didn't feel
Speaker 4: the spark, and so the spark has become this all
Speaker 4: encompassing word that means instant chemistry, initial attraction, fireworks, butterflies, unicorns,
Speaker 4: and I believe that we've been fed this lie from
Speaker 4: society that we expect to feel this instant chemistry and
Speaker 4: that if not, it's not the right match for us.
Speaker 4: And so a lot of what I'm putting out into
Speaker 4: the universe is this idea that the spark is nice,
Speaker 4: and it definitely exists, but there are many myths around
Speaker 4: the spark, and that attraction can absolutely grow over time.
Speaker 3: I think as well, we can often fall into the
Speaker 3: trap of comparison, but not just comparison with what other
Speaker 3: people have, but comparison with past relationships. I know that
Speaker 3: for a lot of our listeners who have struggled with this,
Speaker 3: once you've gone through a breakup and then you go
Speaker 3: back into the dating world and being having this feeling
Speaker 3: of like, oh, I'm never going to find someone who
Speaker 3: I love as much as my ex. And one of
Speaker 3: the big things with this is this reminder that, like,
Speaker 3: you can't compare dating someone new who you don't have
Speaker 3: a relationship with, who you've never met before, who you're
Speaker 3: just figuring out who they are as a person. You
Speaker 3: can't compare that spark to what you have formed with
Speaker 3: someone over X amount of years, like nobody's ever going
Speaker 3: to live up to that. Do you find that that
Speaker 3: is a common thing and a common theme that you
Speaker 3: find with people who are struggling getting back into dating.
Speaker 4: I've absolutely found that it's hard for people who are
Speaker 4: getting back out into the dating world after being in
Speaker 4: a long term relationship because they compare the intimacy and
Speaker 4: connection and comfort and familiarity that they felt at year
Speaker 4: four with their ex to essentially a stranger, a person
Speaker 4: who they've been on two dates with, and then they
Speaker 4: get very frustrated and then they say, oh, I wasn't
Speaker 4: myself or it wasn't natural, and it's like, yeah, you
Speaker 4: have to build to that. It takes time, and so
Speaker 4: I really agree with the advice you gave, which is
Speaker 4: that you need to be patient and you can't compare
Speaker 4: year four with someone to date too with someone. I
Speaker 4: even hear this with people with their friendships, where they say,
Speaker 4: I'm so comfortable with my friends, but on a date,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of like this actor, I'm totally different. It's like, yeah, well,
Speaker 4: you didn't always feel close with your friends. You had
Speaker 4: to build towards that. And so there's a sense of patience,
Speaker 4: which is that good things take time, momentum grows, you
Speaker 4: develop that intimacy. And so for anyone who's listening, who's
Speaker 4: getting out of a relationship and getting back into the
Speaker 4: dating pool, I would say, you can absolutely build that
Speaker 4: intimacy up again. But don't compare years of connection and
Speaker 4: friendship into a person who you've just met.
Speaker 1: What do you think about soulmates? Like penguins, We say
Speaker 1: penguins here at life uncut because penguins mte fall life.
Speaker 1: But do you think that that the idea of finding
Speaker 1: your soulmate, this one human out there in the whole world.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's flawed? Or do you think that
Speaker 1: there really is just this one person that we're meant
Speaker 1: to be with.
Speaker 4: I don't like to perpetuate the concept of soulmates because
Speaker 4: I think it really enforces some of those romanticizer tendencies.
Speaker 4: And so what will happen if somebody believes in soulmates
Speaker 4: is they'll meet a wonderful person, They'll go out with them,
Speaker 4: they'll have fun for a few three months in, they'll
Speaker 4: have a disagreement let's say around where to go on
Speaker 4: a trip, or COVID protocol or how they split their finances,
Speaker 4: and then instead of working through it, they'll say, well,
Speaker 4: this feels really hard and effortful. You must not be
Speaker 4: my soulmate. Let's break up and I'll keep looking. And
Speaker 4: it actually encourages people to give up on relationships and
Speaker 4: try to find someone else, versus a different mentality, which
Speaker 4: is that there are many people with whom you can
Speaker 4: build a relationship. You can write a lot of love
Speaker 4: stories with different people, and that means that it's much
Speaker 4: more about finding somebody great and committing to writing that
Speaker 4: story together versus just the act of finding your soulmate.
Speaker 4: So I'd say, I don't believe that there's a one.
Speaker 4: I don't believe that there's a soulmate. And I hope
Speaker 4: that you feel empowered that there's many people with whom
Speaker 4: you could build a great relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we have many soul Like when we
Speaker 1: say penguins, we say penguin like, this is the person
Speaker 1: that I've chosen, and this is the person I think
Speaker 1: then I'm going to be with forever. And I spoke
Speaker 1: about it in private, we've spoken about on the podcast,
Speaker 1: and I really do think that there are so many
Speaker 1: soulmates for you at different points of your life, at
Speaker 1: different ages and when you need them, and maybe you do.
Speaker 1: You know, I've got a friend that has been with
Speaker 1: a partner since that were fifteen. They've been together forever,
Speaker 1: they'll be together forever. And I've got other friends that
Speaker 1: have never even dated and they're in their thirties. But
Speaker 1: I think people come into your life when you need them.
Speaker 1: And I completely agree with you. If we put this soulmate,
Speaker 1: this one human in the billions of people in the world,
Speaker 1: up on this pedestal and say I need to go
Speaker 1: and find this one person, I think it's going to
Speaker 1: be a really long and lonely journey.
Speaker 3: I also think as well, it subscribes to this idea
Speaker 3: that one person can give you everything in life, which
Speaker 3: we all know it's not possible, and it's such an
Speaker 3: unfair and unrealistic pressure and expectation to put on someone
Speaker 3: that they should provide for you all of this. Be
Speaker 3: your comfort, be your support person, Be the person who
Speaker 3: you find funny, like we need to have that from
Speaker 3: other people in our lives. We need to get that
Speaker 3: from friends, We need to get that from work, like
Speaker 3: we have to have other things that stimulate us. And
Speaker 3: it's just like you're setting your relationship up to fail
Speaker 3: if you expect your partner to give you absolutely everything. Logan,
Speaker 3: there was something on your Instagram which I wanted to
Speaker 3: ask you about. There was one of your posts and
Speaker 3: it said the hard work of love is finding someone
Speaker 3: and that's crossed out. Tell us what you mean by this.
Speaker 4: Yes, so I call this the Happily ever After fallacy,
Speaker 4: And this is exactly what you said. It's the mistaken
Speaker 4: belief that the hard work of love is finding that person.
Speaker 4: And the truth is, yes, that is really hard. It's
Speaker 4: hard to find the person, it's hard to say yes,
Speaker 4: it's hard to commit, it's hard to say no to
Speaker 4: other options. But that's only when the hard work begins.
Speaker 4: The hard work continues. It takes effort to stay connected
Speaker 4: to your partner, it takes effort to invest in your
Speaker 4: relationship after a long day of work. It takes effort
Speaker 4: to keep the love and sex and passion alive. And
Speaker 4: so the Happily ever After fallacy is this idea that
Speaker 4: at the end of the Disney movie or the rom
Speaker 4: com we're just supposed to believe they overcame all of
Speaker 4: the trials and tribulations, they found each other, they wound
Speaker 4: up together, and now they live happily ever after, No,
Speaker 4: there's no assumption to that they have to either keep
Speaker 4: putting in the work and they'll live together well, or
Speaker 4: they choose not to. And so what I'm trying to
Speaker 4: do with posts like that is help orient people on
Speaker 4: the fact that if you're in a relationship and it
Speaker 4: feels like work, you're doing it right, not wrong. A
Speaker 4: lot of people come to me with the grass as
Speaker 4: always greener mentality, and that's really what informs the maximizer.
Speaker 4: They believe, should I commit to this person and get
Speaker 4: married or have a child, or be in a long
Speaker 4: term relationship, or should I break up with them and
Speaker 4: see if there's somebody better out there. And so that
Speaker 4: is a pretty modern phenomenon, this idea that I can
Speaker 4: just keep going and find more people. In the past,
Speaker 4: you would date within your village, you would date within
Speaker 4: your apartment building, within your high school, and you said,
Speaker 4: all right, I've Bill and Belinda on my street, and
Speaker 4: those are my choices, and I'm going to be with
Speaker 4: one of them, and now it feels like there's a
Speaker 4: lot of choices. Some of the other cultural factors that
Speaker 4: are at play. One is that a lot of us
Speaker 4: have divorced parents, and we don't have a blueprint for relationships,
Speaker 4: and either our parents were divorced or unhappily married. And
Speaker 4: many people say, I don't know what it looks like
Speaker 4: to build a relationship. I don't know what it looks
Speaker 4: like to fight and make up. So that's one factor.
Speaker 4: Another factor is what Laura talked about, which is increasing
Speaker 4: expectations of what to get out of a relationship. In
Speaker 4: the past, you might have said, this is a person
Speaker 4: who I build a house with, raise a family with,
Speaker 4: raise a farm with, and we keep a roof over
Speaker 4: our heads and food in our mouths. You weren't expecting
Speaker 4: to self actualize. And now we expect our partner to
Speaker 4: be so many things to us. And those rising expectations
Speaker 4: are sometimes good because sometimes when you ask for a lot,
Speaker 4: you get a lot, but also means many people are disappointed.
Speaker 4: And the Northwestern professor Eli Finkel, he wrote this great
Speaker 4: book called the All or Nothing Marriage, which is the
Speaker 4: best relationships of today are better than the best relationships
Speaker 4: in the past, but many people now get divorced for
Speaker 4: reasons that our grandparents or even parents could never have imagined.
Speaker 3: So in saying that the flip side of this is
Speaker 3: in a relationship, when do you know to tap out?
Speaker 3: Like what is the baseline for when we should be
Speaker 3: saying Okay, I'm not I'm not happy in this anymore.
Speaker 3: I don't want to work through this. Like how does
Speaker 3: someone know if the way that they're feeling is valid
Speaker 3: enough or strong enough to go this is the reason
Speaker 3: why I should break up with my partner versus going okay,
Speaker 3: I really need to kind of dig deep and see
Speaker 3: where we're at in six months time and put some
Speaker 3: effort in.
Speaker 4: So one of the interesting parts of my job is
Speaker 4: I do this thing on the side called breakup consulting,
Speaker 4: which is just a funny way of saying that people
Speaker 4: call me and say should I stay or should I go?
Speaker 4: Like flip a coin, Yeah, I mean, I take this
Speaker 4: role so seriously because I'm holding their relationship future in
Speaker 4: my hands, and there's this other person whose feelings need
Speaker 4: to be considered even though they're not on the call.
Speaker 4: And I really take this as a a big spiritual
Speaker 4: and emotional ask and I have a series of questions
Speaker 4: that I asked them to help them understand is this
Speaker 4: the right relationship for them? And so one is I
Speaker 4: think some people are hitchers, people who stay in relationships
Speaker 4: for too long, who get into relationship and say, well,
Speaker 4: I've already been in this for five years. I don't
Speaker 4: want to start over. And some people are ditchers and
Speaker 4: they stay in relationships too short. They give up after
Speaker 4: five months. They say we had the spark, but it fizzled,
Speaker 4: or I want to meet someone new. And so one
Speaker 4: thing is just do they have a historical trend of
Speaker 4: being a hitcher or a ditcher. Another thing I asked them,
Speaker 4: which I called the wardrobe test question, is if your
Speaker 4: partner were a piece of clothing in your closet, what
Speaker 4: piece of clothing would they be. This is good and
Speaker 4: this question is super random and abstract. But here I'll
Speaker 4: ask I love it, Brittany, that's your answer, like gut
Speaker 4: reaction to that question.
Speaker 1: I would say, my partner is a plane, what tea
Speaker 1: or dmim cut off shorts, And that's because I.
Speaker 2: Wear that every day.
Speaker 1: That's like my go to It's what I'm comfortable, and
Speaker 1: it's what I just feel like my true self in.
Speaker 4: I think that's a beautiful answer. And so I've asked
Speaker 4: this question to dozens of people, and sometimes I hear
Speaker 4: answers like yours, where it's the go to pair of leggings,
Speaker 4: favorite T shirt, favorite jacket, the thing that makes you
Speaker 4: feel comfortable, warm, like yourself. But I've also heard very
Speaker 4: bad answers. I've heard my boyfriend is a wool sweater
Speaker 4: who keeps me warm, but it's itchy, so I take
Speaker 4: it off, or my girlfriend is a scrubby shirt. I
Speaker 4: wear it to the gym, but I hope nobody sees me.
Speaker 1: I don't always smells, and I use it to wipe
Speaker 1: out my sweat.
Speaker 4: Exactly, and I should have thrown it out three years ago.
Speaker 4: And so it's because this question is abstract and sort
Speaker 4: of bizarre, people give their gut reactions, and in giving
Speaker 4: their gut reactions, they say, damn, I really need to
Speaker 4: leave this relationship.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna that's interesting, Laura, what do you
Speaker 1: think Matt is to you? Straight off the top of
Speaker 1: your head.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say he's like my favorite warm jumper,
Speaker 3: but then when you said it was it's not the
Speaker 3: one I want to take off. It's the one I
Speaker 3: want to slap in the couch and like around the
Speaker 3: house and never ever take off.
Speaker 4: Oh, I think it's is this an item you like?
Speaker 4: Is this an item that represents you? I do ask
Speaker 4: them all these questions, but sometimes that's the most provocative one,
Speaker 4: because when they hear themselves saying something like the pair
Speaker 4: of genes that I should have gotten rid of because
Speaker 4: they're too tight and they don't fit anymore, They're like, M,
Speaker 4: I think I've outgrown the relationship.
Speaker 3: I really love this because I know that this is
Speaker 3: something that so many people struggle with, and I think
Speaker 3: a lot of people check out of relationships based on
Speaker 3: a feeling.
Speaker 2: We talk a lot.
Speaker 3: About the ick and we like the amount of questions
Speaker 3: that we have come in around breakups. It's so hard
Speaker 3: because we can't just say to someone and I'm sure
Speaker 3: you feel the exact same way, yes you.
Speaker 2: Should break up with them. No, you shouldn't break.
Speaker 3: Up with them, because you don't know the nuances around
Speaker 3: that person's relationship, especially when I mean sometimes it's very
Speaker 3: black and white. If there's something that's happened, or if
Speaker 3: there's disrespect, or if there's bigger things at play. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it can be black and white, but mostly it's people
Speaker 3: who have been with their partners and maybe have gotten
Speaker 3: past the honeymoon. They're in a really comfortable phase of
Speaker 3: the relationship and they're a bit bored. And I guess
Speaker 3: we kind of expect that our partners should always excite
Speaker 3: us and should always be bringing something new to the
Speaker 3: table to keep us interesting and interested. But we also
Speaker 3: have to be that person as well. We also have
Speaker 3: to be the ones putting the effort into the relationship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Laura, I agree with everything you're saying, and it's
Speaker 4: actually a great segue from what we were just talking
Speaker 4: about with the wardrobe test, because sometimes I'll say to
Speaker 4: someone how do you want your partner to make you feel?
Speaker 4: And they'll say, I want to find someone who's like
Speaker 4: my favorite hooded sweatshirt with little holes for the thumb,
Speaker 4: where it's my running sweatshirt, and I feel safe and
Speaker 4: I feel warm and I can go anywhere. And it's like, Okay, well,
Speaker 4: who are you going to be? How are you going
Speaker 4: to show up in the relationship? And so a lot
Speaker 4: of my book and my work is advising people on
Speaker 4: who to choose, but how do you get somebody to
Speaker 4: choose you? And the answer there is have your actions,
Speaker 4: follow your words, do what you say you're gonna do,
Speaker 4: Be reliable, be thoughtful, put the other person first, Surprise them,
Speaker 4: delight them, learn about their sexual desires and how to
Speaker 4: make them happy and so. Yeah. So a big part
Speaker 4: of modern dating is choosing who to be with. But
Speaker 4: you also want to be the type of person who
Speaker 4: will get chosen.
Speaker 1: That's such a big question. Like when you were like,
Speaker 1: people come to you and they say, how do I
Speaker 1: make people choose me?
Speaker 2: That's exactly it.
Speaker 1: But I think that you don't want to You don't
Speaker 1: want to dig too deep into that and say, well,
Speaker 1: I need to change this and this and this about
Speaker 1: myself so that people like me better, because that's going
Speaker 1: to unravel. That's not a forever plan. I think's you
Speaker 1: need to obviously be the energy and be what you
Speaker 1: want back in return, but also you need to be
Speaker 1: one hundred percent yourself because if you're not, chances are
Speaker 1: you can only keep this act up for one year
Speaker 1: or two years or three ys, and once you show
Speaker 1: you true colors, someone's like, hang on, this is not
Speaker 1: what I signed up for. I'm not quite sure who
Speaker 1: you are.
Speaker 3: Don't though that? Like, what if yourself is just lazy
Speaker 3: in relationship? Like what if you are someone who gets lazy?
Speaker 3: Like that's not good enough. Maybe you do have to
Speaker 3: kind of be somebody, not be somebody else, but you
Speaker 3: have to do some personal work to be a better
Speaker 3: person to be within relationships. I think, you know, maybe
Speaker 3: it's too easy to say, oh, like you have to
Speaker 3: just be genuinely you and you can't be anybody else.
Speaker 3: Like we can be us, but also be a good
Speaker 3: version of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, be the best version of you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly, Logan. Let's get into talking about dating profiles,
Speaker 3: which obviously you are the absolute expert. You are the
Speaker 3: queen of dating profiles and have seen many in your time.
Speaker 3: What do you think makes a good dating profile? Like
Speaker 3: what are the key things that we should be doing
Speaker 3: when we're setting up our dating apps?
Speaker 2: Like what is it?
Speaker 4: Yes, I love I would love to be your queen
Speaker 4: of dating app profile. So the first thing is understanding
Speaker 4: what's the point of a profile? And the point of
Speaker 4: a profile is to tell your story. You're really a storyteller,
Speaker 4: You're a curator, you're an editor, and you're putting forward
Speaker 4: who you are, and so you want to tell your
Speaker 4: story with variety. I was just looking at a woman's
Speaker 4: profile where every single picture was her with her big,
Speaker 4: curly blonde hair, looking over her right hand shoulder, wearing
Speaker 4: a different dress, and I was like, I get it,
Speaker 4: you have beautiful blonde, curly hair, but I'm only learning
Speaker 4: one thing about you.
Speaker 2: You look better from the lift.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly right. We know you're a good side
Speaker 4: and it just it lacked variety. And so here is
Speaker 4: the formula that I would use for a great profile.
Speaker 4: The first picture should be a clear headshot. This is
Speaker 4: what my face looks like, no filters, no sunglasses, nobody
Speaker 4: else in it. This is what I look like. Do
Speaker 4: you like it? Then I would have at least one
Speaker 4: photo with your full bodies that we can get a
Speaker 4: sense of what you look like. Then I would have
Speaker 4: at least one photo with some family or friends to
Speaker 4: show us that you have an active social life. One picture,
Speaker 4: ideally of you doing something that you love, so hiking,
Speaker 4: giving a talk, playing an instrument, cooking, whatever that is.
Speaker 4: I want to catch you candid and in the moment,
Speaker 4: really feeling joyful and like yourself, and then just show
Speaker 4: us different sides of your personality. If you're really goofy
Speaker 4: but all your photos are of you from different friends' weddings,
Speaker 4: we're actually going to think that you're more formal than
Speaker 4: you are. And so your photos should show variety, they
Speaker 4: should show different side of yourself, and they should really
Speaker 4: answer some of the basic questions.
Speaker 1: Like what do you look like?
Speaker 4: Then with your profile prompts, So for Hinge, obviously you
Speaker 4: can fill out prompts about.
Speaker 2: Who you are.
Speaker 4: The goal is to be specific and to spark conversation.
Speaker 4: So many profiles I look at say I'm looking for
Speaker 4: someone curious who loves adventure, or I'm looking for someone
Speaker 4: who's honest, and it's like, how is that going to
Speaker 4: spark a conversation. Nobody's going to write to you and
Speaker 4: be like, hey, Laura, we should date. I'm honest. Like, no,
Speaker 4: there's no response to that. But if you write I'm
Speaker 4: the kind of weird who dot dot dot would rather
Speaker 4: spend Friday night doing a puzzle then going to a bar,
Speaker 4: someone can be like cool, I'll bring the puzzle, you
Speaker 4: bring the pretzels or whatever it is. It's like, you
Speaker 4: want to spark an idea and someone so that they say,
Speaker 4: I know how to respond to that, and I'm going
Speaker 4: to send you a message.
Speaker 1: And what are your thoughts on women making the first move? Now,
Speaker 1: we have very strong thoughts on this, but I would
Speaker 1: love to know because we get a lot of women
Speaker 1: that are a bit scared to make the first move,
Speaker 1: a lot of women that say, you know, I'm really
Speaker 1: old fashioned, and I think they should come to me,
Speaker 1: and I think they should chase me and they should
Speaker 1: put all the effort in. What are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 4: All of the research that we've done at HINGE has
Speaker 4: shown that when women make the first move, they're really
Speaker 4: happy about it. It helps people avoid burnout because it
Speaker 4: makes you feel in control.
Speaker 1: So remember this.
Speaker 4: The more in control you feel, the more like you
Speaker 4: feel like you're in the driver's seat, the happier you
Speaker 4: are with dating, the more successful you are with dating,
Speaker 4: the more dates you go on, and the less likely
Speaker 4: you are to be burned out. And so I would
Speaker 4: say throw out your preconceived notions of playing games or waiting,
Speaker 4: because the people who go after what they want are
Speaker 4: the people who get what they want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's nothing, there's like, no worse feeling. I
Speaker 1: don't know about anybody else, but I detest it. But
Speaker 1: a feeling of this limbo of whiting. Are they gonna
Speaker 1: text me? Are they gonna write back? Are they ever
Speaker 1: gonna ask me out? Like this feeling of anxiety or
Speaker 1: being unsure about what's happening. I to test that. I've
Speaker 1: always been a first move. I've always been to go
Speaker 1: after what I want. And because what's the worst thing
Speaker 1: is gonna happen, You're gonna ask them out and they
Speaker 1: say no, You're like cool. At least now I don't
Speaker 1: waste the next three weeks wondering if you're gonna ask
Speaker 1: me out.
Speaker 4: Totally shoot your shot. And honestly, we've done so much
Speaker 4: research on this at hinge. Playing games is not a
Speaker 4: good strategy. The people who get the most dates are
Speaker 4: the people who send comments, send roses, send likes, and
Speaker 4: ask people on dates, because those are the people who
Speaker 4: are actually engaging. And the people who sit back and
Speaker 4: say I'll let him come to me, or none of
Speaker 4: these people are good enough, I'll wait around. It's like
Speaker 4: they're just not getting their experience, they're not getting better
Speaker 4: at dating, and they're not doing stuff like that. So
Speaker 4: respond to messages, go on dates and stop waiting for
Speaker 4: love to just happen to you.
Speaker 3: How long do you think someone should wait? So, Like,
Speaker 3: after you've matched with someone on a dating app and
Speaker 3: you've been sending messages back and forth, how long should
Speaker 3: it take between having that initial conversation like digitally and
Speaker 3: turning that into an IRL meeting.
Speaker 4: We've done research on this, and we've found that after
Speaker 4: four to five days is this sweet spot where you've
Speaker 4: talked enough to get a sense of the person and
Speaker 4: to make sure that there's someone you're interested in. But
Speaker 4: it's not so long that the moment has passed. So
Speaker 4: after four or five days you can say something like,
Speaker 4: I'm really enjoying getting to know you on the app.
Speaker 4: Let's see if we have this much chemistry in person
Speaker 4: or I'm not a big texture. Do you want to
Speaker 4: hop on FaceTime and see if we hit it off?
Speaker 4: Do whatever you can to move from the app to texting,
Speaker 4: or from the app to a phone call, a video date,
Speaker 4: or an in person date, because what you don't want
Speaker 4: to do is get trapped in this pattern of non
Speaker 4: stop texting. And my mantra that I want you to
Speaker 4: keep in mind is you're looking for a partner not
Speaker 4: a pen pal.
Speaker 3: It's so true, and there's so many people on apps
Speaker 3: who will just penpower you to death and nothing comes
Speaker 3: of it. It's a waste of time, statue is. For
Speaker 3: a little while, it's like it's exciting and it's nice
Speaker 3: to meet someone and it's flattering, but like it truly
Speaker 3: is a waste of time, and nobody has that much time.
Speaker 2: At the moment or ever.
Speaker 1: The thing is, I mean, well, a lot of people
Speaker 1: have a lot of time at the moment, but I
Speaker 1: think something and I'm talking to a friend about this
Speaker 1: at the moment. Like one of my girlfriends has been
Speaker 1: talking to this guy. She's really into him, and she's
Speaker 1: been talking to him for a goh, probably three months,
Speaker 1: but because of lockdown, they haven't been able to meet.
Speaker 2: So she's talking on stuff.
Speaker 1: She's like, I think that he could be like something
Speaker 1: really really serious. I think he could be it. We
Speaker 1: just get along so much. We text all day and
Speaker 1: like we have some great phone conversations and I just
Speaker 1: had to say to her in the last few days,
Speaker 1: I's I just want you to be really aware that
Speaker 1: this might not be the same chemistry in real life.
Speaker 1: And I have something I have stumbled across in the past,
Speaker 1: and I just know it all too well. But you
Speaker 1: can get wrapped up in this fantasy and everything's so
Speaker 1: romantic and she's like, yeah, but he says all the
Speaker 1: right things, and he just seems so loyal, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: but you've never He's just saying what you want him
Speaker 1: to hear. Like, I think people, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: this is something you're seeing now through COVID. For the
Speaker 1: last two years, this is what dating has been. People
Speaker 1: have had to form these relationships purely online. And I
Speaker 1: know there's been a lot of success stories, but it's
Speaker 1: just something to be warial for people that set themselves
Speaker 1: up for failure when they haven't physically met absolutely.
Speaker 4: So I'll speak to it in non COVID terms, and
Speaker 4: then I'll speak to it during the pandemic in lockdown.
Speaker 4: So in general, my advice is that you should get
Speaker 4: to the data as quickly as possible, because what happens
Speaker 4: when you keep texting NonStop is you build up, as
Speaker 4: you said, a fantasy in your head. You think, oh,
Speaker 4: we get along so well, we have great texting banter,
Speaker 4: we pass memes back and forth. He's so funny, and
Speaker 4: you just imagine, oh, this is my person and that
Speaker 4: when we meet up it'll be per pft. But what
Speaker 4: happens four months in when you finally meet up and
Speaker 4: then you don't like the sound of their voice, you
Speaker 4: don't like the way they smell, you don't feel comfortable
Speaker 4: around them. Turns out all their texts were so funny
Speaker 4: because their friends as a group were writing them. And
Speaker 4: so you just wasted four months because you build up
Speaker 4: a fantasy in your head that wasn't real. And so
Speaker 4: in general, try to get to the date as soon
Speaker 4: as possible and avoid building up that fantasy in your head.
Speaker 4: That being said, we need to follow pandemic lockdown restrictions,
Speaker 4: we need to be safe, and sometimes we can't meet up, irl,
Speaker 4: And so what I would do is say, make sure
Speaker 4: you're video chatting, make sure you're talking on the phone.
Speaker 4: Text based communication can create a lot of false ideas,
Speaker 4: and so get that synchronous ongoing conversation where you can
Speaker 4: hear their voice. You can have a dynamic chat, and
Speaker 4: really that's the best proxy for how will we get along?
Speaker 2: Irl.
Speaker 3: Just going back for a moment to people who are
Speaker 3: coming out of lockdown, especially here in Australia, who are
Speaker 3: getting with their single and getting back amongst it. Talk
Speaker 3: to me a little bit about fear of dating again
Speaker 3: fota and we want to what fomo is. But like
Speaker 3: photer is a new term that you've coined. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think this is a very very real thing, and
Speaker 3: I know even from my friendship groups, and I've spoken
Speaker 3: about this to produce Akisha before, the fear of dating
Speaker 3: again when we've had so long to be able to
Speaker 3: hide away, and especially for this dating personality type that
Speaker 3: you've spoken about, what can people do who are feeling
Speaker 3: apprehensive about getting back into the dating world.
Speaker 4: Phota is, as you said, fear of dating again, and
Speaker 4: it's a really really common experience for people right now.
Speaker 4: At Hinge, we found that over fifty percent of Hinge
Speaker 4: daters are experiencing this. And it's not really that surprising.
Speaker 4: If you haven't been on a date in a while,
Speaker 4: if you haven't even been at your office, you feel
Speaker 4: like your social skills are rusty, you feel nervous about
Speaker 4: being in public and are you going to be safe?
Speaker 4: And so all these people want to find love and
Speaker 4: seventy five percent of Hinge users are looking for a relationship,
Speaker 4: but they're afraid to get back out there. So the
Speaker 4: first thing to understand is that this is a really normal,
Speaker 4: common experience. This has been a really trying time. Our
Speaker 4: pool of resilience was used up a long time ago,
Speaker 4: and now we're just running on fumes. And so if
Speaker 4: you're someone listening who says I have phota, I'm afraid
Speaker 4: to date again, that is absolutely normal, and you should
Speaker 4: be compassionate with yourself because life is hard right now.
Speaker 1: So I've spoken a fair bit about dating profiles, what
Speaker 1: to do, what not to do, how to put your
Speaker 1: best foot forward. But for all of those people that
Speaker 1: are in a relationship, you talk about things like turn
Speaker 1: towards and turns away, And these are the things that
Speaker 1: you talk about your book and I've heard you talk
Speaker 1: about in a podcast about how to make and work
Speaker 1: together to make these relationships better. Can you just talk
Speaker 1: to us about the turn towards and turns away.
Speaker 4: So some of the greatest researchers and thinkers in my
Speaker 4: field of relationship science are John and Julie Gartman, and
Speaker 4: they are a married couple. He's a researcher, he's a mathematician,
Speaker 4: he's an academic, and Julie is a therapist with a PhD.
Speaker 4: And there are power Couple, and they've done really interesting
Speaker 4: research on what creates a great relationship, and so they
Speaker 4: have these terms, the relationship masters and the relationship disasters,
Speaker 4: and so what they found is that it is not
Speaker 4: about the grand gestures. It's not about once a week
Speaker 4: going on holiday or having a really romantic Valentine's Day
Speaker 4: or anniversary. It's about small things often, it's about every
Speaker 4: day really interacting with your partner. And so they have
Speaker 4: this concept called bids, and a bid is a verbal
Speaker 4: or nonverbal attempt to connect. So a bid might be
Speaker 4: I'm working on my laptop and my husband comes in
Speaker 4: and puts some cut up melon next to me at
Speaker 4: the desk, and so he doesn't say anything, but of
Speaker 4: course he wants to connect. He wants to show me love,
Speaker 4: he wants to have a conversation. And so I could
Speaker 4: just grunt and say and keep working, or I could
Speaker 4: shut down my laptop and say thank you so much,
Speaker 4: how's your day going, Where did you get the melon?
Speaker 4: What are you up to? And it's these small moments
Speaker 4: where people are saying I want to connect with you,
Speaker 4: and you have the chance to turn towards them, which
Speaker 4: is respond to the bid, ask them a question, engage,
Speaker 4: or you can turn away from them, which is ignore them,
Speaker 4: say something rude, or push back. And what the Gotment's
Speaker 4: found is that analyzing couples, the relationship masters turned towards
Speaker 4: each other eighty six percent of the time, and the
Speaker 4: relationship disasters only turn towards each other thirty three percent
Speaker 4: of the time. And so it's not about the big moments,
Speaker 4: it's about every day making bids and turning towards bids.
Speaker 3: I really love this, and I think it's so easy
Speaker 3: to get into your comfortable zone and a relationship and
Speaker 3: not that you find your partner annoying, but just be like, oh,
Speaker 3: i'll do it that later, or I'm trying to do
Speaker 3: something right now, and you're constantly in this phase of
Speaker 3: like kicking the can down the road, and it's just
Speaker 3: such a quick postract of feeling unappreciated and feeling unloved,
Speaker 3: and then when you do get to that part in
Speaker 3: a relationship, it's so hard to work back towards feeling Okay, no,
Speaker 3: my partner does appreciate me, I do feel validated and
Speaker 3: cared for. I really I love that and we've actually
Speaker 3: spoken a little bit about common before, but we've never
Speaker 3: heard that description of their research that they've done.
Speaker 2: So I really really love that logan.
Speaker 3: For anybody who is currently struggling in their relationships or
Speaker 3: feeling unlovable, or feeling like they just haven't met the one.
Speaker 3: What advice would you have to someone who's really finding
Speaker 3: just like that maybe dating isn't for them, or maybe
Speaker 3: they aren't going to find someone.
Speaker 1: The pessimist you mean, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: The person when you get to that point where you're like,
Speaker 3: I'm never going to find someone, you know, And I
Speaker 3: think that a lot of us, if we've been single
Speaker 3: for a period of time, if we're feeling lonely, there
Speaker 3: have been periods where we've all felt like I'm never
Speaker 3: going to find someone, I'm not lovable, or there's something
Speaker 3: wrong with me. What's the advice that you would give
Speaker 3: to someone who's feeling those feelings.
Speaker 4: My advice is to take baby steps. You don't have
Speaker 4: to go from dating at all to going on five
Speaker 4: dates a week. That's probably going to be unsustainable and
Speaker 4: lead to burnout. And you may not go from years
Speaker 4: of not dating at all to finding a relationship right away.
Speaker 4: But what is something small and tangible that you can
Speaker 4: do right now that's going to make you feel like
Speaker 4: you're making progress. So it might be making a list
Speaker 4: of the people you've dated in the past. How did
Speaker 4: you meet them, how long did you date, why did
Speaker 4: you break up? What are the things that were good
Speaker 4: about the relationship, and what are the things that were bad.
Speaker 4: And you sit there and you take an audit of
Speaker 4: your past relationships and you look for patterns, and you say,
Speaker 4: I tend to break up with people after three months
Speaker 4: because I get bored. That's a bad habit that I
Speaker 4: want to break, and I'm going to move and make
Speaker 4: different decisions. That's a small step that you can take
Speaker 4: to make you feel like you're making progress. And so
Speaker 4: the summary message here is take small steps that make
Speaker 4: you feel like you're moving forward. Take breaks when you
Speaker 4: need to understand that you don't have to meet a
Speaker 4: million people that you like, just have to find one
Speaker 4: person and build a relationship with them, and that love
Speaker 4: is something that you build, not something that happens to you.
Speaker 1: Oh that was a strong finishing line logan.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's like there's a season veteran at this Logan.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It
Speaker 2: was so fun.
Speaker 4: Everyone I know in Australia is like the Uncooked podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I'm super happy that you.
Speaker 1: Oh really yayay yeah.
Speaker 4: Definitely have a great reputation and it was so fun
Speaker 4: to do it. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it. And can you please tell the
Speaker 3: listeners where they can find your book, where they can
Speaker 3: follow you if they want to find out anything more.
Speaker 3: Just give us all of the handles where you're.
Speaker 4: At absolutely so people can buy my book how to
Speaker 4: Not Die Alone wherever books are sold. And if you
Speaker 4: like the sound of my voice, I read the audiobook
Speaker 4: and if you didn't like it, then buy the kindle
Speaker 4: version or the hardcover.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of options.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of options. And then if people are
Speaker 4: interested in my quiz, they can go to loganuri dot
Speaker 4: com slash quiz or they can follow me on Instagram
Speaker 4: at logan Uri Logan.
Speaker 1: I really genuinely was enthralled that whole chat. I really
Speaker 1: really loved it, and Laura and I are so interested
Speaker 1: in this is why we started the podcast, and already
Speaker 1: I'm kicking myself a little bit I'm like, why on.
Speaker 2: Earth didn't we get you on sooner?
Speaker 1: Like that was that was a fault on our But
Speaker 1: I really really love that chat. And guys, if you're
Speaker 1: interested and you love that episode, Logan talks about so
Speaker 1: many amazing things on all her platforms, So go check
Speaker 1: her out on Instagram or give her a listen. And
Speaker 1: I hope that this helps some of you out. Even
Speaker 1: though I'm in a relationship, I just gained something from
Speaker 1: that and it helped me a lot. Say thank you
Speaker 1: for your wonderful wisdom.
Speaker 2: I had so much fun. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Great to meet both of you.
Speaker 2: Until next time.
Speaker 3: Do you know that we never finish an episode without
Speaker 3: our suck and our suite, our highlight and our lowlight
Speaker 3: of each and every week. And Brittany, you can kick
Speaker 3: it off. I know that you've been doing so much
Speaker 3: with your past week. Let me guess Cabinara is your highlight? No, right,
Speaker 3: what else have you been doing?
Speaker 2: Guys?
Speaker 1: I am in quarantine, in hotel isolation obviously in Adelaide,
Speaker 1: So I think that that is just my suck as
Speaker 1: an overall. I'm on day What am I on day?
Speaker 2: Now? I think it's day eleven.
Speaker 1: I actually lost count, So that is my suck. I'm
Speaker 1: going a little bit crazy. Obviously. I've gone from seeing
Speaker 1: Jordan every day to not seeing him at all, so
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of a suck to But I
Speaker 1: am surviving. My sweet for the week is really hard
Speaker 1: to think of.
Speaker 3: I feel like You're sweet just needs to be like
Speaker 3: all of the literal sweet food that has been sent.
Speaker 3: The amount of things that I've seen now where you're like,
Speaker 3: I have received for a roches, I have received Carbonara,
Speaker 3: I have received this like uber delivery is your sweet
Speaker 3: for this week?
Speaker 1: I have had some really nice deliveries. Actually, I had
Speaker 1: a few people in my life that gave me a
Speaker 1: thought for a hot second, Actually, no, do you know what?
Speaker 2: You know? What sweet is?
Speaker 1: I haven't taken anyone up on it yet, but so
Speaker 1: many of you guys, so many of you lifers have
Speaker 1: written to me on the on the Gram. I've seen
Speaker 1: them come in and you've said if you need anything,
Speaker 1: I will literally come and pick it up in Adelaide
Speaker 1: and I would drop it to you. And I would
Speaker 1: never make anyone do that, but I just wanted to
Speaker 1: say thank you to every person that has offered because
Speaker 1: the thought alone means more than you know. So that's
Speaker 1: my sweetish, just how much I realize there are really
Speaker 1: good people out there and people actually care. People care,
Speaker 1: people care about the food I'm eating, and that's what
Speaker 1: makes me happy.
Speaker 3: But I also think so many people now have had
Speaker 3: friends or they've done it themselves, or family members who
Speaker 3: have done quarantine. That's one of the big things about
Speaker 3: this whole period is just as much as everybody is isolated,
Speaker 3: how much people are reaching out to try and feel connection.
Speaker 3: And I think it's so amazing that we have this community.
Speaker 3: It's so amazing, you know that even through all this separation,
Speaker 3: people are so willing to go out of their way
Speaker 3: to try and be connected and to help people. It's
Speaker 3: really something that's special. So my suck for the week
Speaker 3: is my hollow fresh delivery got stolen.
Speaker 2: Why that is so shitty? I mean someone was hungry? Yeah, fuck, Like,
Speaker 2: I get it. One can get it was out in
Speaker 2: the street, Hey lord?
Speaker 1: Then why was like a rhetorical but like you can answer.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 3: There was a box of food that was left out
Speaker 3: on the street and someone took it because they were hungry.
Speaker 2: I get the why.
Speaker 3: Unfortunate for me, like Yeah, my hell of fresh is gone.
Speaker 3: And that was my week of groceries. And I mean
Speaker 3: I know that I can leave the house now and
Speaker 3: go buy groceries, but I didn't want to.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a study of solid suck.
Speaker 2: What is your sweet?
Speaker 3: And my sweet is is that this week? So tomorrow
Speaker 3: actually when you're listening to this, we have a launch
Speaker 3: for the new collection for Tony May. It is called Alchemy,
Speaker 3: and I'm so freaking proud of it. It is like
Speaker 3: the little baby that I have been working on so
Speaker 3: hard throughout the last four months.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can't wait to get my pieces and different.
Speaker 2: It's like give me jewelry. I love what it's launch day.
Speaker 1: No, that's really exciting because you do work so hard
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 3: Well, it's just like I mean, I don't talk about
Speaker 3: Tony May very often on the podcast, and it's something
Speaker 3: that takes up so much of my life, Like it
Speaker 3: is my number one job essentially, you know, like we
Speaker 3: Britain and I obviously do this podcast, but like I
Speaker 3: have a whole other business that I run and I'm
Speaker 3: just so proud of this range. Like I'm really they
Speaker 3: really stoked, and I feel like when everything comes into
Speaker 3: fruition and everything comes together. You have these real moments
Speaker 3: of like, ah, this is why I'm doing it all.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm so so so excited for that.
Speaker 2: That's tomorrow.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's my sweet. I guess maybe it'll be
Speaker 3: my sweet next week, but it's my sweet this week
Speaker 3: just because like all the hard work has now been
Speaker 3: done and I can kind of sit back and watch
Speaker 3: it or kind of roll out.
Speaker 1: Well, I absolutely cannot wait to see it. Laura and guys,
Speaker 1: thank you for listening. That is a wrap on today's episode.
Speaker 2: It was a big one.
Speaker 1: But as we said, keep all of your stories coming in,
Speaker 1: keep your ask on cuts coming in, And if you
Speaker 1: haven't joined the Facebook Life on Cut discussion group, where
Speaker 1: you're at, because that's where all the juicy goss goes
Speaker 1: down and some really bloody funny stories are on there.
Speaker 2: And you guys know the drill.
Speaker 3: Tell your mom, to your dad too, dog, tell your sister,
Speaker 3: your cousin, and just tell everyone and share the love
Speaker 3: because we love love.
Speaker 2: Baba cut.
Speaker 4: The Company A the b Cutter, Al They the Bay,
Speaker 4: the bas