WEBVTT - The Catch-Up - 4 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.960 You're listening to The Lady Vanisher's catch up series number four. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.120 I'm Alison Sandy. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.960 And I'm Brian Seymour. We begin by looking back at 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.280 episode ten, which introduced the piece of information that changed 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.720 the course of our investigation. A personal ad written in 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.960 French and placed in the bilingual French Australian newspaper Le 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:33.040 Courier Australia on December tenth, nineteen ninety four by a 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.960 man seeking a relationship. This is the ad he placed. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:44.760 Monsieur can stor celibadel grand braun sobra non. 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.640 Female that roughly translates as a tall forty seven year 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.680 old single man with brown hair, a non smoker uni 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.800 who is cultured, intelligent and can speak a number of languages. 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.280 He owns multiple properties or big businesses and is highly motivated. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.440 He is warm and welcoming, but also quite serious, and 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.840 he's looking for an unattached lady with a view for 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:17.360 a permanent relationship or marriage. The letters bc BG in 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:22.160 the ad stand for bon chice bon genre, which translates 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:27.080 as good style, good class. It's apparently an expression used 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.400 in France to describe members of the upper class, typically 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:37.000 well educated, well connected, and descended from old money. There 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.679 are two ways to get in touch. There's a phone 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.959 number and a post office box for lennox Head in 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.199 northern New South Wales. That's not too far from Byron Bay. 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.960 In fact, it's just a twenty minute drive. And at 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.400 the bottom of the personal ad there's also a name. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:57.680 M. A. 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:04.320 Mikael or MF. Ramichel. 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.880 We thought would give you a moment to let that sink. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:17.280 In no doubt, you're automatically doing what we did, connecting 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:24.200 the dots with Marion's case. Our first action was to 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.519 dial the number listed in the ad. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.880 You have reached the message bank of private number. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.000 Hi, It's Alison Sandy from the seven network. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.480 Can you please give me a call on zero. So 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.280 far we haven't heard back. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.560 Let's examine the ad further. We know the qualities of 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.520 the man, cultured, educated and motivated would have appealed to Marion, 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.680 and if his age in nineteen ninety four was forty 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.799 seven by nineteen ninety seven, he would have been around 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.160 fifty two years younger than Marion. The post office box 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.480 listed is in the seaside holiday town of lenox Head. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.000 That's just a short drive south of Barren Bay, the 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:19.200 place where most of Marion's money was withdrawn. Now let's 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.959 look at the name. The ad was placed by a 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:28.320 mister f Ramkeel. Marion officially changed her name to Florabella 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:34.120 Natalia Marion Ramackel in May nineteen ninety seven. And yes, 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.800 in both cases the surname Ramkeel is spelled exactly the 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.720 same way. It's an uncommon name in Australia. There isn't 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.200 one we can find listed in the white pages or 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.640 on the electoral role. From our other searchers, we've learned 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.520 that the f Ramakel who held the post office box 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.560 in the Lenoxhead area in the nineteen nineties appears to 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.160 have long since moved on. We have found Rameckel's living 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.520 in the United States, but mostly the name pops up 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.480 in Luxembourg, the small European country bordered by France, Germany 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:13.720 and Belgium. Remember the customs documents for Florabella Remichel when 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.320 she supposedly came back to Australia stated that she was 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.640 a housewife from Luxembourg and that personal ad was written 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.719 in French, with the writer claiming to be a polyglot 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:31.920 or multilingual in Luxembourg. The residents generally are multilingual. There 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:36.680 are three official languages Luxembourgish, French and German, although many 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.799 people can also speak English, Portuguese and Italian. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.159 It seems like far too many coincidences. We have to 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:52.280 track down the man who posted this ad, this monsieur remical. 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.440 This ad was discovered by Joni, a researcher and good friend. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.479 Now but back in twenty nine nineteen, Joanie was a 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.560 listener who decided to do some digging of her own. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:12.760 So essentially essentially Radical or Ramacle as a name is 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:18.279 something that features essentially nowhere in all of Australia, no 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:23.320 family groups, no history of the name. So to me 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.960 it jumped completely out at me. So I guess the 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.080 story is. I was sitting at the computer, I was sick, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.760 it was midnight, and I thought I'll run the name 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:41.080 through and suddenly, from nineteen ninety four December nineteen ninety four, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:47.599 this ad popped up in a French speaking newspaper coming 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.560 out of Sydney. And this was something that totally took 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.279 me by surprise. I thought, what is this? So I 0:05:55.360 --> 0:06:00.920 then quickly ran it through an online translator and found 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:07.919 that it was a man a mister f Ramicle who 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.480 was looking for a long term relationship or marriage, and 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.440 he well, his ear box was located in Lenox Head 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.080 and his phone number was a Ballana or Lenox Head 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:27.680 phone number. So that's essentially what was in the paper. 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:29.960 But you didn't stop there, did you. 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:36.000 I didn't stop there, So, like a dog with a 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.479 bone and lots of time on my hands, so I 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.520 essentially sat on the computer pretty much all nice and 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:51.960 just started delving and digging deeper into the surname. Discovered 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.320 that the actual translator itself, and this is where all 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.680 the finer details do come in, is that it's actually 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:05.040 the Luxembourg die So the ad isn't in French as 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.800 we know it, so there are a few little words 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.239 and things in there that aren't actually French. They're purely 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.880 targeted to Luxembourg. So this is where I thought, oh, okay, 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.560 well looking at the information that was on the passport 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:27.080 coming back in, and then I thought this looks quite interesting. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:33.040 So yeah, So basically, in a nutshell, I mapped out 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:38.360 anything that was radical that was Luxembourg and started to 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.400 gather together all the family groups. Because there's only around 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.320 one hundred radicals around the world as far as I've 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.360 been able to tell, majority in the US and a 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.760 couple of smaller families in Luxembourg. Now considering that the 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.040 ad was in French, that was why I was looking 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.720 at the Luxembourg connections as well. Yeah, certainly there are 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.280 only three veils that I've been able to find, you know, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.440 publicly listed that begins with an F. So there's one 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.000 in Germany, one in Luxembourg, and one in the US. 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.800 So looking at the year how they were as mentioned 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.680 in the ad, then looking at the same year of 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:27.880 birth online and found someone that matches all of that criteria. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.680 You know, I must have been a social worker for 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:38.280 twenty odd years. Family violence is one of my I 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:42.080 guess specialties, if you want to call it that. And certainly, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:46.000 just looking at I really feel, you know, even before 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.640 finding this information, just looking at the actual case. I've 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.240 been a massive True Climb podcast listener for many many 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:59.720 years as well, and just purely looking at her actions 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.920 and how quickly things changed, and I can just see 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.880 coercive control over a lot of her actions. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:10.480 Tell me more about that. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.640 So as soon as I saw the letter that Sally 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.880 had posted up online, don't worry about me, you know, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:24.880 I'm okay that sort of thing. Also putting her name 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.240 within the string of names, so the fact that she's 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.960 retaining a small little piece of herself in Marion in 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.000 the choice of that within the name. But it hasn't 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:41.160 gone first, the money coming out of the bank, you know, 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:47.760 five thousand dollars every day. It just really frustrates me, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.840 just as a general Joe blow on the street, that 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.360 the police would take the fact that she took the 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.600 money as like a tick against her being, you know, 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:04.320 living well, alive, choosing to disappear to me. I think that, 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.800 you know, probably as the years of progress now we're 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:12.000 a bit more aware of how you know, predominantly men 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.679 can control women and can do it very quickly. 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.160 How do they go about it in your experience. 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:26.360 Well, certainly it starts off with love bombing all the way. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.920 So love bombing meaning you know, like it's just the 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:38.800 most overwhelming feeling of safety, security, love, passion, romance. You know, 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.840 you are their world, you are everything to them. And 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.240 then that turns into I want to see you all 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.319 the time. I want to know where you are all 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.199 the time. I want to I want to phone you 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.000 five or six times a day. I need to you know, 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.920 you're looking good in that outfit, that maybe consider this outfit, 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.559 so things, you know, can progress quite quickly, and especially 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:09.680 for someone like Marion who has been looking for love 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.720 and can't be without a man, as her friend said, 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:16.160 or always wants to be with a man. It's those 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.439 sort of things I could I could just looking at 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.360 her victimology so to speak, and again just talking as 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:28.040 a joe blow off the street, certainly I would see 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.840 her as being an absolute prime candidate for someone who 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.560 you know, quite possibly had repeated this behavior time and 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.640 time again with women, and that was how we operated. 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:46.800 So certainly I just see I just see certain aspects 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.960 of it. Putting all her things into storage, keeping you know, 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.400 certain things out, but they're not telling her daughter where 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.200 these things were, throwing her future son in law out 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.680 of the house, so that there was no meeting of 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.400 the minds. Because I guess what I've found over the 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.400 years is that women in retrospect, they can actually look 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.600 back and say, yeah, I didn't want anyone to meet 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.800 this new partner. You know, I wanted him because we 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.719 were so wrapped up in each other. I wanted him 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:19.600 to be kept separate from everybody else. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.800 But how might have wanted that too, right? 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.640 Yes, yep, absolutely. 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.480 Because isn't that part of the control thing as well, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.360 you know, keeping them being a secret to everyone else? 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:33.680 Is that? 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.400 Yep? Yeah, definitely. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:43.480 In this episode, we also considered Clark Hunter, the mysterious 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.839 Facebook user who approached Sally online several years ago and 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.520 left the following message. 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:53.559 Natalia is alive, but you never see her again. It 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:55.640 was not your intention to disappear. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.640 She was forced when Sally chased up the comments. Clark 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:08.080 Hunter responded, but very soon his account was deactivated. Clark 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.080 Hunter used the name Natalia Marion had changed her name 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.960 to Flora Bella Natalia Marion remarkable. Both Joni and I 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.480 discovered through our own investigations that in Luxembourg it's not 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.520 uncommon for people to go by their second name, so 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.560 that Clark Hunter seems much more legitimate. I guess now. 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.120 It's when I saw that after doing all of this 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.320 deep dive. Yes, I thought, oh, that is that is 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:43.920 very interesting, especially Natalia and not Natalie, like retaining the 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.120 true wording as well. Yeah, it's just it is just 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.559 such a baffling case. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.320 It is, But this to me, seems out of all 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.640 the tips and leads and everything that we've gotten, this 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.079 one seems to me like the most solid. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.559 Yes, if only, if only we could get the passport, 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.400 the ins and outs, all of those details, because that 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.160 would certainly either propel it forward or put it the 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:17.079 rest exactly if we could get that information, because essentially, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.560 you know, like I've gone to the library and I've 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.000 gotten out all of the physical phone books from the 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.200 bar and Bay area, the Grafton area, and the Gold 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.920 Coast area looking for a ramical you know, from nineteen 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.200 ninety three up to two thousand. I think I went, 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.000 and there's just no one anywhere. His non existence. 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.120 Well, we have shared that information with police. Gary Shean 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.040 did indicate that would take some time, but regardless, we're 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.240 going to plug on and keep doing our own investigation. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.520 I think that, regardless of anything, we just have to 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.960 follow this rabbit down this hole. Like this is an 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.720 absolute definite. And as I said, when I think of 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.240 what Clark Hunter said, she was forced again, I'm not 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.280 directly linking the two, no, but yeah, we have to 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.960 investigate that possibility given all the coincidences. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.200 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because I can see it just looking 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.600 at the story. What Sally has said, you know, filled 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.800 in quite a lot of the gaps. I can most 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.800 definitely see, you know, even from a week or a 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.280 few weeks in, I think that Marion was potentially a 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:34.800 prime candidate for getting sort of swept up captured, you know, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.400 sell your house, sell everything, Let's go and live in 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.360 Luxembourg with all of the all of the lavender bushes 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.520 and the music and the art, and the French speaking 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:52.920 multiple languages, like it's such an exotic country, and you know, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.640 it's just I just think it is something well worth 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:02.000 pursuing for sure. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.880 But if Marian was planning all along to go to 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.400 Luxembourg with some exotic stranger, why go to London and 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.200 spend weeks in the south of England first? Was it 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.840 a ruse to hide her true intentions from her family? 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.760 Did she encounter some unforeseen delay which kept her from 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:27.160 traveling to the European continent, or perhaps she did end 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.600 up in Luxembourg at some point before her passport returned 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:36.000 to Australia. So we're starting to collect quite a few 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:41.480 leads which are pointing overseas. It's time for us to 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:50.560 follow them. Sally and I head to the UK and Europe. 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.320 In England, we go straight to Tunbridge Wells. The police 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.120 in Kent already know we're coming. We gave them advance 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.440 warning and information about Mary case. Sally spends twenty minutes 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.159 explaining what's happened in the past twenty two years. Hey, 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:07.000 see what happened? 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.919 Well, I just met a I'm not sure what his 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.440 status is, maybe he's the sergeant. His name was Luke Stablein, 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:23.359 really nice young guy and he he said he's just 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.399 done a bit of googling and stuff like that this 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:26.760 morning just to get a bit of a heads up 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.040 on what the story is actually about, and knew that 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.120 I was coming in this morning to speak to them. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.480 So there's had been a group of them who had 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:36.399 been discussing it this morning and talking about what they 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.359 can and cannot do. No surprise, they can't do anything 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:44.080 unless Australian Police contact them directly and ask for their help. 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:50.480 I told him the story. He said, I don't like 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.040 to make judgment on anything, but he said if it 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.800 was us here in Kent, we would do everything in 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.199 our power to help people to get some answers, particularly 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:00.440 in circumstances like this. 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:02.720 Circumstances yet. 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.560 Yeah, so he said it would be everything in their 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.320 power to do what they could to help the people financeers. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.040 But he did stress to me, I can't do anything 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.600 like I couldn't leave my DNA. He couldn't take a 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.760 report or anything unless it's a directive from Australian Police. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.120 Back to square one, I guess. But look, I said 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.520 to him, at least you know that I'm here. I 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.840 offered to give my DNA and just leave it in 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:29.960 the event that I am actually sitting here, and can 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.360 you take it. I find it really difficult that it's 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.120 such a big deal here because I literally walked into 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.439 bar and Bay Police and they stuck a thing in 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:37.879 my mouth and put it in a bag and that 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.439 was my DNA test. So it took literally two minutes. 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.520 So I don't understand from my point of view, why 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.280 it's such a big deal over here that they can't 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.879 take it, being that I've suggested while I'm sitting in 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.000 your office, can you take it and if you need it, 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:51.879 you can keep it. If you can't use it, you 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.359 throw it in the bin. But obviously they've got different 0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:00.480 rules and regulations here, so yeah, there's not really much to. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.200 Tell, So really it's down to the New South Wales Police. 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.280 He should have reached out to the police here years ago, surely. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.240 Well, I said when I left, I said, my goal 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.119 would be to get my DNA here so that we 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.560 could run it against any Jane does and also put 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.480 her on the missing person's list here because there is 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.120 a lot of elderly people living in these areas who 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.280 potentially might have might have sat down, had tea with her, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.240 might have sat and had lunch with her one day 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.880 as a woman traveling potentially by herself through these quaint 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.520 little towns, so you know, there's every chance that someone 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.920 may recollect seeing her or speaking to her, or seeing what. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:40.440 Happened to her. 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.280 But without that inquiry from our police. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.640 Need the police to step up here, I really really do. 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:49.159 I really need them to help me. 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.960 Waiting for us is Christina, the woman who's taken it 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:58.560 upon herself to investigate Marion's story. We're at the Tunbridge 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:02.440 Wells Hotel and it's a beautiful Sunday morning, about to 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.240 have tea and Christina and Zali clearly hitting it off 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.080 like best friends, and they've only just met just a 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.320 few minutes ago. And from opposite sides of the world, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.399 now linked and obviously connected. Like Sally, Christina is a 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:17.800 mum without a mother. 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.959 I could relate to Sally on some personal level, and 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.200 I did say to Sally, I don't mean to deflect 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:30.320 from her case at all, but I lost my own 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.439 mum when I was nineteen. Oh no, it's cancer, and 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.480 just thought maybe I can get a few bits of 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:42.440 information relating to Sussex. But obviously things have snow Vaudevitch 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:47.600 since that point. Close to here you have Tonbridge where 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:52.879 there's Tonbridge Castle there, which we're pretty sure marian visited. 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.359 That's just a short distance north of here, in Tonbridge Wells. 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:00.960 And then we could head for the south towards the 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.120 Sussex coast. We could go to Alfreston and East Sussex, 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.720 where Marianne said on the other postcards, and then down 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.040 to the coast in Brighton, another location that she seemed 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:14.520 to be. 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:20.399 And then we're on our way. First stop, ton Bridge Castle. 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.159 It's open. Do you want to go in there and 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:30.080 have a lot? Sure, Okay, let's see if someone was 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:30.600 working here. 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.040 Hello you, thank you. 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:36.000 My name is Sally. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:41.679 I'm come from Australia. Would any of you happen to 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:49.640 be working here in nineteen ninety seven? Yeah, okay, and. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:50.720 You working up here? 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:54.159 I was here, I. 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:55.760 Was here, I did here. 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:03.360 My question is my mum's missing person. And she came here. 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:09.800 Sent me this brochure and told me that she was here. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.800 And this is my friend Christina. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.800 We're actually doing a podcast in Australia to help try 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.719 and find her because police have really just given up 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:20.280 and they're not looking for her anymore. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.280 And it's been quite terrible because she came to the UK. 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.120 She was supposed to come for a year long holiday. 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:32.119 And her passport came back in six weeks after she left, 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.160 and all her money was drained out of her bank 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:38.160 account in five thousand dollars increments, which nearly one hundred 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:39.399 and twenty thousand dollars back then. 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.720 So yeah, we've come to try and see if we 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:46.200 can retrace her steps and. 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:51.760 That actually Marian Barter, I've got a photo. 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:53.000 I'll show you a photo of her. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:55.399 When I walked in, I thought, oh, you never know, 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.000 you might have been I mean, I never expect anybody 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:01.920 to have been here. I didn't remember twenty two years ago. 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.240 Remember I know, she said to me in one of 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:08.679 the letters, she said, oh, people recognize that I'm from Australia. 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.400 Is really is my accent really that bad? 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.960 Because she always liked to speak quite proper and quite well, 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.639 and she felt that people knew she was a stranger 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.399 because of out occer kind of accent. 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.240 Which is why you'd hope someone would remember meeting her 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:25.439 or having a conversation with her, because that would have 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.640 led to a conversation about Australia and why she was here. 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:30.800 And I just hope that person. 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:35.120 Is two papers, yeah, Career okay. 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.639 And the other one is called The Times of Tunbridge okay, 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:39.720 which is a freebie okay. 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:41.360 And lots of people picked that up just to read 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.040 on the train or something like that, so. 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:44.600 That might be where you're going. Okay. 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.560 There's also one of these two that's okay. There's also 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:56.280 age much called Facebook group. 0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:58.800 Oh yes, I'm on those. 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.480 There's a tree's amazing. 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:01.919 That's right. 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.320 There's a face that's usually quite good, and that's usual 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:05.080 quite good for people. 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:08.440 You'll get information about what's happening in television things like that. 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.560 So we're trying to find out if any of anything 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:13.840 from back then, whether it was in some sort of 0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:18.439 archive somewhere, you know, where old tay for work, or 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.680 because I would have thought with the visitors book, Yeah, 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:25.520 that's kept mind reason where that might be. 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.320 It would be wonderful if you did find something, wouldn't it. 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:29.680 Yeah. 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.040 We were talking about this in the car actually, and 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.399 I think Christina was saying too. You know, it's funny 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.240 because something like this, you'd kind of imagine that people 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:40.480 feel in a book to keep for records for years 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:42.080 and years, not something that you get rid of in 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:45.840 seven years, like a typical bank report or tax deep 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:48.760 details something like that. More for history, you know, So 0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:52.520 maybe that you never know, Maybe you guys might find 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:54.080 it tucked away somewhere. 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:57.240 If the guest book is found and Marion's name is 0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.720 in it, there might also be the name of someone 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.960 he was traveling with. Sally leaves her name and contact details. 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:05.320 Thank you for your time. 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:09.480 Thank you. 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:18.000 Marion next traveled south in her hire car one hour's 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:24.159 drive to the tiny hamlet of Alfriston the postcard Marion 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.600 sent Sally from Alfreston. Began thinking of you as I 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.080 explored the quaint little shop on my tour to the 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:34.639 historic village of Alfriston. The card featured a sticker in 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:38.479 the top left hand corner advertising that shop Sallie's Craft 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:43.720 and Gift Center. It's here Sally has one of her 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:47.520 most powerful moments yet. The shop is now an interior 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:51.879 design store, and just as Sally arrives, the owner returns 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.720 and lets her in, allowing her to explore and literally 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:57.399 walk in her mother's footsteps. 0:25:59.359 --> 0:25:59.840