1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: The death tool in Gaza has passed a pretty grim 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: milestone this morning, and we went across to Jonathan Cursley, 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Channel AND's US correspondent. Good morning, Jonathan, mate, welcome. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 2: Both, ye lady, good morning to you both, Jonathan. 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: These rounding forces well and truly in the center of 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: the city of Gaza. Now, what is likely to happen 7 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: from here. 8 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 3: Well, that's anybody's guess now, I mean for a number 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 3: of days now the IDFB Israel Defense Forces instead, essentially 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 3: they had Gaza circled. Now they say about closing in 11 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 3: on the strip itself and essentially have this place around 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 3: it now. Weeks ago, when Miss Constant first started, they 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 3: asked people to move from the north of Gaza to 14 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 3: southern Gaza, where there are now real concerns over a 15 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: humanitarian crisis that could unfold there in the days and 16 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 3: weeks ahead. The IDF still maintains it is about trying 17 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 3: to crush on us, but we now know that ten 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 3: thousand people. It has been claimed by the Yumasroun Palestinian 19 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 3: health authority that ten thousand people in Gaza have been 20 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: killed in a month. The IDFs as it's fourteen thousand 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 3: terrorist targets in that time, and is this morning adamant 22 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: that they do not want to see an ongoing occupation 23 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 3: of Gaza. You may remember fifteen years or so ago 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 3: Israel moved out of Gaza and occupying that area. Now 25 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: they are staying that they do not want to go back. 26 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 3: That there has to be questions asked now about what 27 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: is the endgame, because if the endgame is to just 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 3: leave that land vacant, well, I can't see how that 29 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 3: strategically or politically works for either side in the decades ahead. 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: And then you've got these thousands of people who have 31 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: been displaced from their homes. This is a forty kilometer 32 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: stretch that has two million people inside it, and right 33 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: now so many of them can't get back into their 34 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 3: own homes because they have been bombed, they have been 35 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: blown up. And still this war just goes on day 36 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 3: by day, and it seems to get more and more 37 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 3: tense hour by hour on the ground, even though Israel 38 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 3: says it is making inroads on Hamas and is now 39 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: withinside of the Gaza strip itself. 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 4: It comes down to fundamental things that we appreciate in well, 41 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 4: we take for granted in somewhere like Australia, Jonathan, the 42 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 4: fundamentals and the shelter and the food and that just 43 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 4: people getting through and had to have no home to 44 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 4: go back to must be absolutely heartbreaking. 45 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is. We know that there are still 46 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 3: Australians trapped inside Gaza too because the Rapid Crossing, which 47 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: is the crossing at the southern end of the strip 48 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 3: into Egypt, has largely been closed for pretty much the 49 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 3: entire time this conflict has been going on, albeit for 50 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: a few hours for some civilians to get out, but 51 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: also for aids to get in, but even then that 52 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: took weeks before that could even take place. So now 53 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: governments are still holding out some sort of hope that 54 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: the crossing can be reopened, allowed foreign civilians, foreign citizens, 55 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 3: dual nationals out of that area. And then the question 56 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: is next, once the idea are done with the north 57 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: of Gaza, what happens after that? Do they move to 58 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: the south. Is there an effort to try and contain 59 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: this all in the north, And really this war Israeli 60 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: said could drag on for weeks and months, and they 61 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: may well be right in that. We have a situation 62 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 3: out so where the US President Joe Biden is desperately 63 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 3: urging Benjamin Mettyaghu of the Israeli Privats to hold off, 64 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 3: to have a three day pause. Essentially, that is trying 65 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 3: to get some of the hostages that Hamas took a 66 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: month ago. There's still two hundred and fifty citizens or 67 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 3: so being held by Hamas inside Gaza, so that that 68 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: would be an effort to try and get some of 69 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 3: that out. But you can imagine too the American President 70 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: might be hoping a three day pause leads into a 71 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 3: longer pause that might eventually at some stage lead to 72 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 3: a cease fire. Because while all these lives continue to 73 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: be lost on the ground, both Palestinian lives and Israeli 74 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: soldiers too. There is a lot of concern from the 75 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 3: United States about how this could play out, not just 76 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: in a broader context of a regional war, but where 77 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: does this leave the population leaning into wards in terms 78 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: of interview, more in support of Israel or is it 79 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 3: more in support of Palestinians. We've certainly seen huge protests 80 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: from pro Palestinian supporters right around the world. At the 81 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: White House, they plastered red hands on the front walls 82 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: of the White House to accuse the Biden administration of 83 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: having blood on their hands. So there is an anger 84 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: about this pro Israeli position that has been built by 85 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 3: Western governments. That's not to say that people are being 86 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 3: anti Semitic on that front, but here you are dealing 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: with a conflict that goes back decades and it goes 88 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 3: back Empires realistically when you look at the conflict within 89 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 3: this region, So this isn't over by a long stretch, 90 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 3: and there's strong words and actions from both sides still 91 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 3: though at the heart of all of this people are 92 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 3: dying on the ground. 93 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: You pretty much answered the question that I was about 94 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: to ask you, because on the Al Jazeera site this morning, 95 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: I saw the headline Democratic Party still strongly pro Israel, 96 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: but shifting. So yes, there's never any just straight that 97 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: guarantee of that alliance, although it is of course very strong. 98 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: Where does the concern about other countries being dragged into 99 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: all of this stand today? 100 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: Jonathan, Well, what you've seen over the course of the 101 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: last few days, again, the US Secretary of State Anthony 102 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 3: Blincoln there has been hopping his way around a lot 103 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 3: of the Middle Eastern countries trying to get a sense, 104 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 3: I suppose of the mood that is on the ground 105 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 3: and feedback back directly to Joe Biden, because initially it 106 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 3: was concerns that we would see some sort of attack 107 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: launched by pard Me either Iran or my Heespler in Lebanon. Still, 108 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 3: that is where the main area of concern lies. The 109 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: other aspect of this, too is that the United States 110 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 3: forces in Iraq and Syria, of which they have held 111 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: those forces in those countries for a significant period of time, 112 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: those forces have come under attack. There's been something like 113 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: forty attacks from drows on US forces and coalition forces 114 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: in those areas over the course of the last thirty 115 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 3: days or so, and there have been a number of 116 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: US soldiers who have been injured in this. They haven't 117 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 3: as yet been fatalities, but obviously the Pentagon is keeping 118 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: a very very close eye on this. There is still 119 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: great concern that this could broaden out into a much 120 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 3: more broader Middle East conflict. I mean, last week, Benjamin 121 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 3: that now who described it as a holy war, or 122 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: if it's going to get into a holy war, that 123 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 3: is a much more messier situation, tragically than what it 124 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: already is now. If you look at it all that 125 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: regional conflict in the Middle East or that would be devastating. 126 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: The prospect of Iran being involved would lead to the 127 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: US being involved, and you just move up the scale 128 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 3: of the chaos and the disaster from there on in So, yes, 129 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: there is a lot of anger right now about the 130 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: situation that is unfolding on the ground, both inside Gaza 131 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: and inside Israel. People were trying to maintain an argument 132 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: that yes, Waamas did was awful, but at the same time, 133 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: the loss of innocent lives inside Gaza is unacceptable too. 134 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: And it is that balance in the language that is 135 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: becoming so critical to find on the global state. This 136 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: is an issue that the president is going to have 137 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 3: to try and deal with in the days and more extent. 138 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: But it's not just the US. I mean, you've got 139 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: Australia's leaders are being urged to change their position of 140 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: support to This is a very delicate regional global situation 141 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: at the moment. 142 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 4: It is in the battison you mentioned, you know, like 143 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: world leaders and you know if your foreign ministers are 144 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 4: having this say around the planet. But even you know, 145 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 4: former President Barack Obamas chipped in, does it Does it 146 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 4: help when Barack Obama says, look, nobody's hands are clean 147 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 4: in this. Everyone wants to have this apul Yeah. 148 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 3: Again, I think I think you're right on this closing. 149 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: I mean what you're looking at as a situation where 150 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: everybody now wants to say their piece, if you like Barack. 151 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: Obama, Yeah, exactly. I think when Barack obabble was the 152 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: too term president of the United States, he had issues 153 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: in trying to deal with the Middle East situations for 154 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: a two state solution of his own, and he did 155 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: say in those comments he did look back and wish 156 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: there were things he'd done differently. I think that too, 157 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: is worth taking into perspective in all of this. He's 158 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: not just out there to say here's what should be done, 159 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: here's what needs to be done. 160 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: Now. There is a sense of reflection from him too 161 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: that he wishes he could have done things differently to 162 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: not get to this position. But right now, global leaders 163 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: have to accept that the position that they are in 164 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: now is one that cannot go on, and somehow there 165 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: needs to be a move for change. What is that 166 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 3: change and how do you get there? The large acceptance 167 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: is for a two state solution, but if you can't 168 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: get the main parties on the ground to agree to that. 169 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 3: It just remains very very difficult to see how you 170 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: get any step forward on a path to piece in 171 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: a region that has seen so much conflict. 172 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well Jonathan, we'll leave it there. Thank 173 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: you so much for your update today. 174 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: Always good to talk to you in yearlessness.