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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Carguttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the tenth of November. I'm Sam and I'm Zara. The

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Speaker 2: annual International Climate Change Summer aka COP twenty seven kicked

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Speaker 2: off in Egypt this week, and the hottest topic on

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Speaker 2: the agenda for the world leaders in attendance is whether

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Speaker 2: the world's richest nations should compensate the developing world for

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Speaker 2: the damages of climate change. We'll give you all the

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Speaker 2: info you need about this red hot debate, but first, Arah,

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Speaker 2: what's making headlines this morning.

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Speaker 3: The big story of course today is the US midterms,

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Speaker 3: and and while we don't entirely know yet who will

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Speaker 3: hold the House and who will hold the Senate, whether

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Speaker 3: it orll be the Democrats or the Republicans, there have

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Speaker 3: been a number of firsts, you know, first women governors

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Speaker 3: in certain states, first LGBTQI governors in certain states. One

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Speaker 3: there was a particular interest to us here at the

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Speaker 3: Daily os is in Florida, where Democrat Maxwell Frost will

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Speaker 3: become the first member of Generation z I ask Jen

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Speaker 3: Zetas to be elected to Congress. He is twenty five

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Speaker 3: years old.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, to some national news, now and Prime Minister Anthony

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Speaker 2: Albanezi said he would welcome a meeting with Chinese President

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Speaker 2: Jijiping at the G twenty summit in Bali next week.

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Speaker 2: When I asked yesterday, Albinizi said that a meeting with

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Speaker 2: g would be a quote positive thing, but he wouldn't

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Speaker 2: specify if a meeting was indeed being organized.

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Speaker 3: Medibank believes the criminal behind last month's cyber attack will

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Speaker 3: continue to release customer information on the darkweb, after some

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Speaker 3: data was posted online yes today. In a statement, Madebank

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Speaker 3: said they were working around the clock to keep customers

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Speaker 3: updated on what information has been stolen and made public.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. We had to dig deep for

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Speaker 2: this one, Zara. But archaeologists in Tuscany have unearthed twenty

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Speaker 2: four well preserved bronze statues believed to date back to

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Speaker 2: the birth of the Roman Empire. The twenty three hundred

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Speaker 2: year old statues were preserved in hot mud from nearby

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Speaker 2: thermal springs.

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Speaker 3: All right, so before we explore the debate that you

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Speaker 3: know potentially could shape the future of the planet, no

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Speaker 3: big deal, Sam, can you just remind us what COP

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Speaker 3: actually is because it's at the center of what we're

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Speaker 3: talking about today.

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Speaker 2: So COP is the UN's annual Climate change conference, and

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Speaker 2: this one's the twenty seventh one in a row. COP

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Speaker 2: stands for Conference of Parties, So this one is COP

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Speaker 2: twenty seven. This one is in Egypt, but last year's

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Speaker 2: was in Glasgow, and I remember we talked about it

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Speaker 2: on the POD. And this is where some big historic

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Speaker 2: climate decisions are made. We're talking here about the Paris

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Speaker 2: Agreement or the Kyoto protocols. They're all made at COP summits.

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Speaker 2: Last year there was a lot of discussion about Australia's

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Speaker 2: presence at KOP in Glasgow, whether then PM Scott Morrison

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Speaker 2: would go, and then how we appeared to the rest

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Speaker 2: of the world, what our reputation was in this space.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it feels like a good point here to

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Speaker 3: ask whether PM Anthony Alberzi is at COP twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Alberanzi is not going to attend COP twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: He said that he can't be everywhere at once, and

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Speaker 2: he cited his responsibilities in parliamentary sitting weeks and other

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Speaker 2: international conferences. Although Climate Change Minister Chris Bowen is leading

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Speaker 2: the Australian delegation, there are plenty of other world leaders attending.

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Speaker 2: Though We've got US President Joe Biden expected to attend

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Speaker 2: after the midterms, then French President Emmanuel Macron and new

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Speaker 2: UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunac are already there. COP twenty

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Speaker 2: seven is a pretty long one. It'll run until the

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Speaker 2: eighteenth of November, so world leaders will have plenty of

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Speaker 2: time to discuss these big issues, including the one where

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Speaker 2: we talking about today.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so one of the big issues, and I guess

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Speaker 3: the big question that is being debated at this week's

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Speaker 3: COP twenty seven is as the consequences of climate change arrive,

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Speaker 3: do the world's wealthiest countries countries like here in Australia

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Speaker 3: over developing world compensation. Talk me through the answer to that, Sam, Well.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps it's easiest if we start with where we are

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Speaker 2: with our climate targets. So since the conference in Paris

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Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, most of the world has been committed

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Speaker 2: to keeping warming quote well below two degrees celsius, and

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Speaker 2: the aim there was one point five degrees. Now the

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Speaker 2: latest research isn't good. It tells us that the consequences

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Speaker 2: of two degrees are much worse than one point five degrees.

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Speaker 2: There's a really critical point five of a degree difference,

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Speaker 2: but that there will be significant consequences at either level.

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Speaker 2: And more than that, the world isn't on track to

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Speaker 2: reach either goal. We know all too well here in

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Speaker 2: Australia about extreme weather events that are now occurring with

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Speaker 2: more frequency, and that's putting a sharper focus on the

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Speaker 2: need to adapt as well as prevent.

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Speaker 3: But then where does the idea of compensation for the

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Speaker 3: developing well come into this. We're not meeting those targets.

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Speaker 3: That's been made clear by every man and their dog

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Speaker 3: for however long. The conversations now shifted right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's a recognition of the disproportionate

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Speaker 2: ways in which climate change and extreme weather events impacts

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Speaker 2: developing and developed countries. I mean, for example, there's small

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Speaker 2: island nations in the Pacific and the Caribbean, where rising

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Speaker 2: sea levels could threaten to wipe out the entire nation.

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Speaker 2: So obviously there's more of an environmental and financial impact

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Speaker 2: than in larger countries that might have more infrastructure and

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Speaker 2: more land mass to deal with the effects of rising

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Speaker 2: sea levels. Now, representatives from these smaller developing countries often

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Speaker 2: emphasize that wealthier countries, which developed industrial capacity first, have

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Speaker 2: actually contributed to most of the problem, and they argue

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Speaker 2: that those same countries should lead the way in figures.

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Speaker 2: There was an example of that in a speech by

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Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of Barbados, which is a small Caribbean

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Speaker 2: island nation, earlier this week. Mia Motley said it was

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Speaker 2: quote fundamentally unfair that the same country is once colonized

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Speaker 2: by industrial powers whose quote blood, sweat and tears finance

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Speaker 2: the industrial revolution, should now also have to pay the cost.

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Speaker 2: Now might just give you a little bit more detail

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Speaker 2: on Barbados, because I think it's a really interesting case study.

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Speaker 2: It has a population smaller than Canberra, and its contribution

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Speaker 2: to global emissions is tiny, So their argument is that

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Speaker 2: they need help from the rest of the world and

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Speaker 2: the bigger emitters to help alleviate some of their burden.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back in just a moment, but first a

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Speaker 3: message from our sponsor. Have any other countries other than

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Speaker 3: Barbados made similar arguments.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a whole group of developing countries making these arguments,

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Speaker 2: but one interesting example of another country making a similar

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Speaker 2: argument is China. Now, China has said it should not

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Speaker 2: be expected to take the lead on climate action because

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Speaker 2: it industrialized relatively recently, but interestingly, China is actually the

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Speaker 2: world's largest carbon emitter. If you measure by annual overall emissions,

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, China was responsible for almost a third

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Speaker 2: of the global emissions. To put that into perspective, every

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Speaker 2: high income country combined, including the US and Australia, accounted

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Speaker 2: for thirty four percent of global emissions, but much of

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Speaker 2: this is due to China's population. If we're thinking in

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Speaker 2: per person terms, the worst emitters of countries like Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 2: Kazakhstan and Australia and the US are included in that

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Speaker 2: mix as well. If we then look at emissions by wealth,

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Speaker 2: wealthy countries account for more than half the historical total.

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Speaker 2: So it's an interesting discussion as to kind of who

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Speaker 2: was to blame for climate change and now who's responsible?

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Speaker 3: Ye hasn't it usually been about helping those countries lower

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Speaker 3: their emissions rather than actual compensation for the effects of climate.

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Speaker 2: Change exactly, So the tone has been how can we

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Speaker 2: help developing countries transition to cleaner energy so that they

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Speaker 2: emit less and slow down climate change? But you're right,

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Speaker 2: the tone has definitely changed this time in Egypt, and

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Speaker 2: this time we're talking more about adaptation and calls for

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Speaker 2: separate funds to support developing countries when they're hit by

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Speaker 2: climate induced extreme weather events. So it's not as much

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Speaker 2: about them transitioning to clean energy, but being there when

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Speaker 2: they feel the full effects of climate change. The international

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Speaker 2: community has tabled a loss and damage fund in the past,

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Speaker 2: and it's typically resisted by wealthier countries, but it's been

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Speaker 2: added to the agenda this week at COP twenty seven

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Speaker 2: after calls from countries like Pakistan.

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Speaker 3: And they've of course been hit by that major flooding

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Speaker 3: and extreme heat waves just in the last year exactly.

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Speaker 2: So I really do think the number of countries who

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Speaker 2: would find this kind of fund appealing are stacking up

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Speaker 2: just because more countries are being impacted by climate change. Now.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that we're going to get a finalized

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Speaker 2: decision on this fund at COP twenty seven, but we

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Speaker 2: might see an agreement amongst the international community for some

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Speaker 2: general principles to support further work into the establishment of

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Speaker 2: a fund. Here's a little bit of what the United

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Speaker 2: Nations Secretary General had to say at the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the conference.

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Speaker 4: This UN Climate Conference is the reminder that the answer

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Speaker 4: is in our ends and the clock is sticking. We

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Speaker 4: are in the fight of our lives, and we are losing.

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Speaker 4: Greenhouse gas emissions keep growing, global temperatures keep rising, and

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Speaker 4: our planet is fast approaching tipping points that will make

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Speaker 4: climate chaos irreversible. We are on a highway to climate hell,

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Speaker 4: with our foot still on the accelerators.

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Speaker 3: I think one thing that comes out when we are

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Speaker 3: having these discussions about the transition from trying to lower

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Speaker 3: emissions to this idea that we are already there, that

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Speaker 3: we now need to mitigate the effects of climate change

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Speaker 3: can actually be really anxiety provoking for a lot of people,

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Speaker 3: especially a lot of listeners who are young and trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out what the world looks like in the future.

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Speaker 3: And I'm just going to put a shameless little plug

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Speaker 3: here to say that I feel like something. And indeed,

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Speaker 3: a perspective that's often missing from these discussions is that

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Speaker 3: mental health aspect and what to do with the weight

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Speaker 3: of the effects of climate change on your shoulders. And

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Speaker 3: so we're actually hosting an event called Climate in the

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Speaker 3: Pub where we're hoping to have these discussions, and we've

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Speaker 3: invited a panelist who is investigating the emotional impacts of

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Speaker 3: climate change. So if you're interested in exploring this or

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Speaker 3: you want to ask some questions of this panelist and

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Speaker 3: you're in Sydney, we'd love you to come along to

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Speaker 3: our event tonight and just really chat about everything we've

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Speaker 3: seen going on in Egypt this week with COP twenty seven,

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Speaker 3: but also more generally any questions you unanswered about climate

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Speaker 3: change and its effects on this planet.

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Speaker 2: See you there tonight, Zara. That's all we've got time

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Speaker 2: for today on the Daily O's. If you enjoyed this episode,

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Speaker 2: send it to a friend, otherwise we'll speak to you tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: As a pad and Pati