Speaker 1: Ordinarily Speaking, a premiership means the world. Given everything that
Speaker 1: I've been through and overcome, it means so much.
Speaker 2: More tax on time. Hello and welcome to season three
Speaker 2: of Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport.
Speaker 2: I'm Narrowly Meadows. We kick off the season with a
Speaker 2: man who has overcome public scrutiny and personal tragedy to
Speaker 2: eventually achieve his ultimate sporting dream and AFL premiership, a
Speaker 2: premiership fifty seven years in the making, no less. Michael
Speaker 2: Hibbard was one of the band thirty four at Essendon.
Speaker 2: The players endured the impacts of the supplement saga for years,
Speaker 2: rocking their trust in people and love for the game. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: Michael made the call to leave the club and move
Speaker 2: to the Melbourne Demons. That professional turmoil was followed by
Speaker 2: personal tragedy. In April twenty twenty, Michael's older brother Jeff
Speaker 2: was lost at sea. He went out fishing one morning
Speaker 2: and never returned. In September last year, when the final
Speaker 2: siren rang on the AFL Grand Final, Michael's first thoughts
Speaker 2: were with his big brother. He did it for him,
Speaker 2: for his family, and in part for the band thirty four.
Speaker 2: This is a story of incredible resilience motivated by the
Speaker 2: love of family. We caught up in Michael's home in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much
Speaker 2: for joining me, Michael, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: That's a pleasure. Good.
Speaker 2: That's good. Your story is one of just incredible resilience.
Speaker 2: Were you always that way or is it something that
Speaker 2: you've learned throughout life.
Speaker 1: I guess growing up by older brothers and my dad
Speaker 1: was pretty strong, staunch character. Yeah, so I guess over
Speaker 1: the years you're just you're toughen up with an older
Speaker 1: brother and a dad like that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Guess the upbringing where else from you having an older
Speaker 1: brother with older mates and you end up hanging out
Speaker 1: with them and they toughen you up a little bit.
Speaker 1: But being resilient, I guess yeah. I think you just
Speaker 1: you find yourself in situations and you never know how
Speaker 1: you're going to handle them until they're in front of you,
Speaker 1: And I guess being resilient. I think I am a
Speaker 1: resilient character. Hopefully people see that.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you've got a few stories from your childhood.
Speaker 3: By that description, Yeah, yeah, plenty of stories.
Speaker 1: Obviously, there are two older brothers. One that lives in
Speaker 1: Darwen is my half brother. Yeah, we speak on the
Speaker 1: phone regularly every day, and we've got many stories together.
Speaker 1: And Jeff even dad, like his dad was a footy
Speaker 1: player down home, and apparently he's pretty.
Speaker 3: Rough and tumble, and you know.
Speaker 1: I used to play local footy and everyone used to
Speaker 1: tell me about how he was a good player, but
Speaker 1: he was a bit of a thug.
Speaker 3: So you hate me saying that, but yeah, I guess.
Speaker 3: You know, you have no choice.
Speaker 1: When that's the perception of your family. You want to
Speaker 1: kind of live up and make them proud. And I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I've been.
Speaker 2: You've said all of that with a smile on your face. Laugh.
Speaker 1: It makes me laugh thinking of just mu childhood and
Speaker 1: some of the stuff we used to get up to,
Speaker 1: and yeah, just the mischief and and all.
Speaker 3: That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you get into trouble.
Speaker 3: Trouble found me. I feel like trouble we used to
Speaker 3: find me quite.
Speaker 1: Regularly, and over the years I've been able to divert
Speaker 1: my life in a direction where I'm Trouble doesn't find
Speaker 1: me as much anymore.
Speaker 3: Well, I like to think that anyway.
Speaker 2: Is it where are you from Frankston?
Speaker 1: Some of it was were at the town suburb I
Speaker 1: grew up in, which is probably ten minutes out of Frankston,
Speaker 1: ten minutes out of Mornington. So when people say from Frankston,
Speaker 1: I always liked via towards Mornington, so it seems a
Speaker 1: bit nicer. But because I played VFL at Frankston, so
Speaker 1: I got drafted from.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the stigma is I'm a Frankston boy, but yeah,
Speaker 3: you know I wear it. That's fine. I am.
Speaker 1: I guess at Frankston boy. I'm from down that area
Speaker 1: and can be a bit rough growing up down there.
Speaker 2: Once again said with a smile on your face, I
Speaker 2: love it. I wanted to start by asking you about
Speaker 2: everything that went down at Essendon. It was such a
Speaker 2: big story from the outside looking in. What was it
Speaker 2: like living through that as one of the thirty four?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's so much to It's that was
Speaker 1: a fair while ago. I was in my second year,
Speaker 1: you know when Saga started. I think it ended twenty twelve, thirteen,
Speaker 1: and you know, I was pretty young, and it was
Speaker 1: it was big news, and I'm at one of the
Speaker 1: biggest clubs in the land, and you know, this is
Speaker 1: on front and back news, you know, nearly every day
Speaker 1: for a long time, so it was how you couldn't
Speaker 1: escape it. It was, you know, sometimes quite emotional, but
Speaker 1: you know, the best thing was on the weekends when
Speaker 1: you could just go out and play and try and
Speaker 1: put it behind you.
Speaker 3: But it was hard.
Speaker 1: It was hard for everyone at different levels. Definitely had
Speaker 1: my moments, but it was hard on me because you've
Speaker 1: felt embarrassed to even go to family functions or or
Speaker 1: even out in public because it was the first thing
Speaker 1: people that'd ask you. And you know, over the course
Speaker 1: of time, it's become a bit easier and I can
Speaker 1: talk about it pretty openly now, so it's fine now
Speaker 1: I feel like i'ved up with it pretty well. But
Speaker 1: at the time and over five year span, it definitely
Speaker 1: wore people down, and I was one of those as well.
Speaker 2: It must have been hard. When you say you were
Speaker 2: only in your second year, I mean, of course you were,
Speaker 2: but it shocks me to think back that that was happening.
Speaker 2: Then that's a really hard thing to know what to
Speaker 2: do as a young player, I would imagine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, still I'm still bullish on players were in
Speaker 1: no fault or no wrong I think as a second
Speaker 1: year player, it's like, you know, someone runs.
Speaker 3: Out of water bottle.
Speaker 1: You expect there's water in that bottle, and at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, I think the leadership group did a enough
Speaker 1: to make sure nothing there was no wrongdoing or anything
Speaker 1: bad was getting thrown into us, and we were definitely
Speaker 1: told that there was nothing. And you know it, as
Speaker 1: a first second year player, you're kind of just doing
Speaker 1: what you're told. You're trying to make your name for
Speaker 1: yourself and make sure you're you know, you're fitting in
Speaker 1: with the team. And yeah, at the time, you're just
Speaker 1: trying to you just fall on the pack. I guess
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I was only twenty one or twenty two.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was hard to know what to do
Speaker 1: and what was right and what was wrong. But I
Speaker 1: guess hindsight it's a lovely thing and if we had
Speaker 1: that then things would be different, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Did you at any point worry, like, did you to
Speaker 2: worry about what you've done and your role in it?
Speaker 1: Not personally, I think because there's so many other older
Speaker 1: guys that were you know, job was the face of
Speaker 1: it really and a.
Speaker 3: Lot of the leadership.
Speaker 1: I was just kind of just in the group that
Speaker 1: was just hanging on and wondering what was going on.
Speaker 1: And it was a bit of that, like a bit
Speaker 1: of anxiety and you know, what's going to happen to us?
Speaker 1: You know, we're playing I think we got kicked out
Speaker 1: of the finals one year, and you know, just like
Speaker 1: there's so much talk around in the media of what
Speaker 1: was going to happen, and then we were told certain
Speaker 1: things were going to happen, you know, and we did know,
Speaker 1: and ever knew. It was just this unknown and that
Speaker 1: put a stress on your day to day life. Was
Speaker 1: it was just a constant talking point at the club
Speaker 1: and the people around you. So it made it made
Speaker 1: go on to training hard at times because that was
Speaker 1: rather than focus on getting better and training hard and
Speaker 1: wanted to play well.
Speaker 3: That was always in the back of your mind.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, we had we had each
Speaker 1: other to lean on, but it was definitely hard, that's
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: Does it stay with you when you go home as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, it's on the news, it's you talk about it,
Speaker 1: you know, and we're having so many meetings. We used
Speaker 1: to call them crisis meetings. The AFLPA would come in,
Speaker 1: or a STATA would come in, or lawyers would come
Speaker 1: in and talk to us. You know, this is a
Speaker 1: bit later, not so early, twenty fourteen fifteen kind of times,
Speaker 1: Like you have a lot of these meetings that are
Speaker 1: happening regularly, and then it's hard not to go home
Speaker 1: and talk to your partner about it or your family
Speaker 1: of bringing up and wondering what's going on. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the younger kids, a lot of their
Speaker 1: families were I really wanted to know what was what
Speaker 1: was happening there to their children. And that's fair enough.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'd be the same if I was in
Speaker 1: there boat. So I did go home with us.
Speaker 2: Did it take a toll on you that time?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It did.
Speaker 1: I think as I said, like just little things like
Speaker 1: family stuff, birthdays. Would probably turn down a few of
Speaker 1: them right at the peak of when it was really
Speaker 1: big news and you know, when the points got taken
Speaker 1: away from us, or you know, certain times where it
Speaker 1: was big news in the media. There was definitely times
Speaker 1: where I'd turn down certain social events just because I
Speaker 1: couldn't be bothered with the questions and all the talk
Speaker 1: around it and if someone asked me a question, I'm
Speaker 1: applied enough to try answer it, but I'll try avoid
Speaker 1: the question altogether. So I did that a little bit,
Speaker 1: and that definitely took a toll. And obviously the year
Speaker 1: where we did get banned in twenty sixteen, it was
Speaker 1: a pretty low moment for me and all of us really, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was hard to especially I thought probably that was
Speaker 1: a time where twenty six is nearly your prime. I
Speaker 1: was playing some good footy at the time, and I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd make the next sleep and then to
Speaker 1: be a year to be taken out and not knowing
Speaker 1: how you will come back. The anxiety around that, yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely stressed me out and a.
Speaker 2: Lot of other What was that like when you first
Speaker 2: heard about that band? What was that moment?
Speaker 1: Like, we're all in a hotel in Saint Kilda. It
Speaker 1: might have been an overtell or something like that, And
Speaker 1: I kind of remember a conversation someone said, you know,
Speaker 1: there was about four days of this hearing and we
Speaker 1: were getting dripped fed a bit of information and apparently
Speaker 1: one day we're up by four goals. It was the
Speaker 1: talk that was going so we put it to footy
Speaker 1: talk analogy, were up by four goals and then apparently
Speaker 1: at three quarter time we were down by ten, so
Speaker 1: we were like, yeah, so that was hard. And then
Speaker 1: when the verdict came in, you know, been in a
Speaker 1: room of your teammates, there would have been I'm not
Speaker 1: sure all the thirty four were at least twenty to
Speaker 1: twenty five of us seeing you know, guys you look
Speaker 1: up to grown men cry knowing that you know you've
Speaker 1: been taken out for a year of footy agame you
Speaker 1: love and doing things together, and we've been through so
Speaker 1: much together. We firstly we got off and then the
Speaker 1: appeal went against us, so.
Speaker 3: That was hard.
Speaker 1: That was a very emotional day, just as I said,
Speaker 1: seeing your mates cry and and your leaders cry and
Speaker 1: not knowing what's next, not knowing what to do, and
Speaker 1: not knowing what will happen or how long exactly at
Speaker 1: the time was pretty tough. But yeah, we pretty much
Speaker 1: just went out and got on the piss and tried
Speaker 1: to enjoy each other's company and we'd see what happened next.
Speaker 2: Was there a moment where it hit you personally?
Speaker 1: I think the first that day was more shock. I
Speaker 1: think the weeks after that it hit me pretty hard
Speaker 1: when you know, I didn't have the routine of footy anymore.
Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to go into the club. And I've
Speaker 1: never had a year year off of footy ever, and
Speaker 1: I'm finally living my dream playing AFL, And how can
Speaker 1: I come back from this? What will happen to me
Speaker 1: after a year off not being in a professional environment.
Speaker 1: I'm not the most naturally gifted athlete. I have to
Speaker 1: work hard on my endurance and all that. So there
Speaker 1: was that playing on in the back of my mind
Speaker 1: a lot, and there was different stages, especially over the year,
Speaker 1: where yeah, I was really struggling with it. I remember
Speaker 1: going away with my wife, which was my partner at
Speaker 1: the time, my wife now. We went to Bali a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks after, and I had a few too
Speaker 1: many beers one day and it kind of popped into
Speaker 1: my mind and I was just a mess, crying and
Speaker 1: I held it together pretty well until then, and I
Speaker 1: think that's when I realized this has probably been weighing
Speaker 1: on me for a while, and just unleashed a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of my motion and tears and kind
Speaker 1: of glad I got it out. And then it took
Speaker 1: a while for me to open up and talk about
Speaker 1: that again.
Speaker 2: Did you ever get help to talk about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the a f L and the a
Speaker 1: f L p A are really good with speaking to
Speaker 1: people and really pushing players to talk to people. I
Speaker 1: think during the whole court process.
Speaker 3: During.
Speaker 1: For the players individual compensation and stuff, we all spoke
Speaker 1: to a psych and they gave us a a rating
Speaker 1: of how well or how badly you've been coping with it,
Speaker 1: and guys at different levels. And you know, I spoke
Speaker 1: to someone pretty actively too for a month or two
Speaker 1: to make sure I was all good and I was fine.
Speaker 1: I was pretty keen to just take time away from footy.
Speaker 1: That was I think the best thing for me at
Speaker 1: the time. I didn't really think about football. A lot
Speaker 1: of the boys might have been well documented that everyone
Speaker 1: trained down at I think Saint Bernard's there for a
Speaker 1: while is about ten of them, and you would have
Speaker 1: been lucky to see me there once. I remember me
Speaker 1: and Michael Hurley would just go run the ten, you know,
Speaker 1: twice a week to make sure we don't flow out
Speaker 1: to one hundred killers and.
Speaker 3: We just enjoyed our.
Speaker 2: Break running with the bulls as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did that. Yeah, that was when we went
Speaker 1: to Europe. So's I mean, that's another thing.
Speaker 3: That year.
Speaker 1: I tried to take as many positives out of it
Speaker 1: as I could, and I was able to do Europe summer.
Speaker 1: I spent a month with the boys, I spent a
Speaker 1: month with my partner. After I spent a month with
Speaker 1: the boys and their memories. I'll hold forever with those guys,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they'll say the same. We had some
Speaker 1: good times and I did some stuff that being an
Speaker 1: AFL football you never get the opportunity to do. So
Speaker 1: there are positives to take out of it. Obviously, you
Speaker 1: don't want to ever miss a year of footing and
Speaker 1: one where I thought maybe I was hitting to the
Speaker 1: peak of my football prime right in your mid twenties,
Speaker 1: mid to late twenties. But I tried to be positive
Speaker 1: and thinking of the positives.
Speaker 2: Does it rock your trust in people when you go
Speaker 2: through something like that, I.
Speaker 1: Think subconsciously it has to you do question a lot
Speaker 1: of things now. I mean, I'm pretty Joe of your
Speaker 1: kind of guy, and even the doctors will give give
Speaker 1: me a panadeine now, and we joke, is this panadeine.
Speaker 3: Like ed is a joke and we have a laugh
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 1: But there must be a little bit of, you know,
Speaker 1: a lack of trust now that I do have in
Speaker 1: people like that. I mean, I do trust the doctors
Speaker 1: at the Mobile Football Club, that's for sure now. And
Speaker 1: I trusted the doctors at essen and Bruce Reid. He
Speaker 1: was like a second father to me, and I don't
Speaker 1: think he had any part to play in what happened.
Speaker 1: But you know, there are some people out there that
Speaker 1: do do some dodgy things, and I think everyone's going
Speaker 1: to be careful of that. But you know, I feel
Speaker 1: like now I'm in a better spot and a bit older,
Speaker 1: a bit wiser.
Speaker 2: Do you reflect on it with any anger still?
Speaker 1: My wife actually asked me this this morning when we're
Speaker 1: talking about it. And I like to think that it
Speaker 1: was so much has happened after that, and it's sliding
Speaker 1: doors moment. You know, it was a decision I made
Speaker 1: to leave Essenon. I had another year in my contract
Speaker 1: at the time, and I thought I was getting a
Speaker 1: bit stale and lost a lot of motivation. Couldn't really
Speaker 1: see myself walking through those doors every day because of
Speaker 1: what was happening. All those meetings we went through all
Speaker 1: the sadness, I felt like I needed a fresh start.
Speaker 1: So when I left and all the things that have
Speaker 1: happened since, I try not to look back with it
Speaker 1: with anger because it's really it's been a beneficial thing
Speaker 1: for me. As I said, I had a good time
Speaker 1: in that year off and going to the Melbourne Football
Speaker 1: Club was definitely one of the best things that's happened
Speaker 1: to me. So things happen in life, and I feel
Speaker 1: like that happened for a reason. I felt that's just
Speaker 1: one of them. Wasn't fun at the time, it was
Speaker 1: what was going on, but it's created a lot of
Speaker 1: good things in my life.
Speaker 2: I love that you spoke about your family earlier. How
Speaker 2: hard was it on them going through all of this
Speaker 2: and seeing someone they love and care about not being
Speaker 2: able to be at their best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fun. It was more, you know.
Speaker 1: My brother was the one that was like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is bullshit. You know.
Speaker 3: I was just like, yeah, I know, we'll get through
Speaker 3: it kind of thing. Mum and Dad.
Speaker 1: I think they asked questions and they didn't really take
Speaker 1: They thought it was fine. You know, I wasn't grown
Speaker 1: a third tail or anything. Whatever happened or so as
Speaker 1: long as my health was fine, they were fine. And
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, they capes with it pretty well. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of younger players and their families, you know,
Speaker 1: they were a bit more stressful with my family. Were
Speaker 1: My family pretty easy going, lars a characters. So I
Speaker 1: just was telling him everything was fine, and they dealt
Speaker 1: with it pretty well.
Speaker 2: You mentioned your brother. There is that Jeff who's annoyed
Speaker 2: on your behalf.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Always, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and
Speaker 1: if anything happens to his little brother, who would Yeah,
Speaker 1: he'd get pretty dirty. So he was. He was just
Speaker 1: pissed off. He couldn't watch me for another year. And
Speaker 1: as my family were they you know, and my family
Speaker 1: are no different to anyone else's. Our families lived through
Speaker 1: us because playing footage gives them so much pride and excitement.
Speaker 1: And that was probably the one thing that hurt me
Speaker 1: the most, that that was taken away from them, Not
Speaker 1: so much me, but taken away from my friends and
Speaker 1: family that they can't watch someone they love play, you know,
Speaker 1: AFL footage on the MCG in front of big crowds
Speaker 1: or anything like that.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting that you say that because so many
Speaker 2: people say, you know, if you do what you love,
Speaker 2: you never work a day in your life. But also
Speaker 2: what I've come to learn is if that gets taken
Speaker 2: away from you, everything you love gets taken away from
Speaker 2: you at the same time, and then you have this
Speaker 2: resentment towards the thing that you love as well. Is
Speaker 2: that kind of how you felt? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Spot on.
Speaker 1: I mean it's never been articulated a lot of that
Speaker 1: to me, and but it is. It's so true. You
Speaker 1: do love playing footy Like I've lived my life to
Speaker 1: get to where I was or where I am, and
Speaker 1: it got taken away. And there was times where I
Speaker 1: love footy. I didn't watch footy that whole year, you know,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't watch the finals. I couldn't didn't watch
Speaker 1: many games. I wasn't allowed to go to any games,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I wasn't really too interested either. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty spot on.
Speaker 2: Your lovely wife bringing us a word.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. That's sparkling water.
Speaker 2: Want to thank you. It's nice bag, by the way,
Speaker 2: that's cute. Did you ever think about walking away for good?
Speaker 1: Nah?
Speaker 3: No, not during that time. No, it was in my
Speaker 3: MIAs of what else am I going to do.
Speaker 1: I was allowed to footy, and I still felt like
Speaker 1: I had a lot to give, but there was you know,
Speaker 1: I had a I had a pretty badly nagging knee
Speaker 1: injury at the time. Tender artists where a few of them.
Speaker 1: You ask a few of the boys, all of them
Speaker 1: will tell you it's an absolute miracle how I got
Speaker 1: back to play. I could across the road without hobbling.
Speaker 1: I kept that pretty quiet from Melbourne, yeah, because I
Speaker 1: wasn't training much, and when I did train, I couldn't run.
Speaker 1: I could only run maybe a couple of hundred meters
Speaker 1: before I'd have to stop. And that stressed me out
Speaker 1: because I was like, you know, how much worse is
Speaker 1: this going to get? Is it ever going to get better?
Speaker 1: You have these things in your mind that constantly play out,
Speaker 1: And luckily for me, you know, I held that away
Speaker 1: from Melbourne and ended up getting a four year deal
Speaker 1: there and it ended up getting pretty It ended up
Speaker 1: being It took a while, took a few months. I
Speaker 1: didn't do much of the preseason that year I was there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm lucky it got better. But I never
Speaker 1: looked I never wanted to walk away from it. I
Speaker 1: love footy too much. I love the camaraderie, I love
Speaker 1: the locker room, you know. I love how proud it
Speaker 1: makes my family and my friends. So it wasn't really
Speaker 1: I wasn't really a thought.
Speaker 2: If somebody is listening who feels like they've been wronged,
Speaker 2: you know, you talk about the trust and all those
Speaker 2: sort of things, what would be the greatest advice that
Speaker 2: you would give to them of how you got through
Speaker 2: that people, because it was years that you had to
Speaker 2: endure this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me what helped was just having
Speaker 1: people around, having my teammates to rely on, talk to
Speaker 1: lean on, you know, because there was some hard times
Speaker 1: and I'm usually one to try to battle some of
Speaker 1: my emotions on my own, which over the years I've
Speaker 1: learned the wrong way to go about it. And whether
Speaker 1: it's my wife, whether it's my mates, and I'm lucky
Speaker 1: I've got so many good teammates and had so many
Speaker 1: good teammates that esther than that I could rely on
Speaker 1: and talk to and who were going through the same thing.
Speaker 1: That really helped me get through that. And obviously anyone
Speaker 1: hopefully everyone's got a family out there that they can
Speaker 1: talk to and get through hard times.
Speaker 2: Together with just on that in twenty seventeen, when you
Speaker 2: guys all come back and you're playing and three of you, Patty, Ryder,
Speaker 2: Michael Early best mate and you win all Australian honors.
Speaker 2: You smile when I bring it up again, you put
Speaker 2: into words what that meant.
Speaker 1: It gives me chills, to be honest, and like, I
Speaker 1: nearly get emotional thinking about it, because I went from
Speaker 1: thinking I wasn't going to play and missing here and footy,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it was one of my prouder moments. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we run the flag this year and I've had a
Speaker 1: daughter this year, and all these good moments have happened
Speaker 1: in my life. But that's it's right up there. It's
Speaker 1: especially do it with Heurls and Patty and we've been
Speaker 1: through so much together.
Speaker 3: It was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: What is it that makes you emotional? Is the matship
Speaker 2: of it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of hard work, a lot
Speaker 1: of doubt and a lot of proven a lot of
Speaker 1: people wrong making a move from a club. You know,
Speaker 1: I loved all the people there and a lot of
Speaker 1: people didn't want me to leave, and I kind of
Speaker 1: went against a lot of the people that I cared
Speaker 1: about my family, to be honest, wanted me to stay
Speaker 1: at Essendon and I made a choice. It was a
Speaker 1: hard one at the time, and in that moment, even
Speaker 1: my first game back, you know, just it's a lot
Speaker 1: of emotion and then you know it's win Australian and
Speaker 1: when I hadn't I hadn't had one before, and I
Speaker 1: was just very proud and it made it all worth
Speaker 1: it in a way.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine you're somebody that loves wearing a jacket
Speaker 2: like that, but that would have been pretty special putting
Speaker 2: on that kind of jacket in that kind of moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it stays.
Speaker 1: It's probably got dust in there in their wardrobe somewhere,
Speaker 1: and every now and then I'll play play a prank
Speaker 1: on ant and just walk out of the shaw walk
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom with it on. But if she's
Speaker 1: got the ships to me and I'll try and make
Speaker 1: her laugh and now I can put the medal on
Speaker 1: with it. So nah, but yeah, it's I mean, it's there.
Speaker 1: It's something I'll it's something I'm very proud of, especially
Speaker 1: considering everything we went through, and especially do it with
Speaker 1: Heurls and Patty Hers especially one of my best mates,
Speaker 1: and we were the ones that just trained together that
Speaker 1: whole lot, that whole year off, So it made it
Speaker 1: even more sweet, Like we've got a lot of crucism
Speaker 1: for not doing the football program during that year off,
Speaker 1: and it was a nice, a nice feeling to do
Speaker 1: that and stand up.
Speaker 3: There with him.
Speaker 2: You've mentioned your brother Jeff a couple of times. Tell
Speaker 2: me a little bit about him and what he was
Speaker 2: like as a mate and a brother.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a jovial, frankster. Trouble found him more than
Speaker 1: it found me. Growing up. He was everyone's friend. He'd
Speaker 1: give his shirt off his back for anyone he'd met.
Speaker 1: You know, he got along with all my friends, both
Speaker 1: footy clubs, all the friends that grew up with, and
Speaker 1: he used to getting a lot of mischief, but there
Speaker 1: wouldn't be many people that say too many bad words
Speaker 1: about him. There's so many stories like probably can't say
Speaker 1: on the podcast.
Speaker 2: Just give us one of them.
Speaker 3: I probably shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: I was talking to Stephen May yesterday and I told
Speaker 1: him a story about Jeff, and he goes every time
Speaker 1: we talk about him. There's another story that I haven't
Speaker 1: heard before. But he was just you know, he did
Speaker 1: do anything, whether it was right or wrong, to try
Speaker 1: and make people laugh. And that was sometimes hard because
Speaker 1: he put you in a spot of bother where you
Speaker 1: could get in trouble at times, but you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: him any other way. He made He constantly made people laugh.
Speaker 1: So and he was a good guy.
Speaker 2: Do you have any nicknames for each other or that to.
Speaker 3: Call him the nomad? He's just lived the life of
Speaker 3: a nomad. You know.
Speaker 1: He would find a way to only work two days
Speaker 1: a week but have enough money to live the life
Speaker 1: he wanted. And you know, maybe in mum's house and
Speaker 1: maybe the mate's house.
Speaker 3: He never knew what he was going to do.
Speaker 1: And like he's just yeah, he lives, lived the party.
Speaker 3: He lived a good lifestyle, and yeah he had he
Speaker 3: had a good fun life, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: What kind of relationship did you guys have together and
Speaker 2: what did your footy career mean to him?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think back just when we're kids, and
Speaker 1: it was always footy footy. We'd kick the footy out
Speaker 1: the front and he'd stand out the front of one
Speaker 1: light post, I'd stand out in front of the other
Speaker 1: and would kick the footy for hours just trying to
Speaker 1: count how many times we'd hit the light posts. And
Speaker 1: he's three and a half years older than me, and
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity of playing with him several times.
Speaker 1: And I remember I was I think I was fourteen.
Speaker 1: Maybe I was playing seniors for our local senior team.
Speaker 1: Mum and dad had to give the club permission to
Speaker 1: let me play beausel was so young. Dads, we find
Speaker 1: jeffs with him, kind of think Jeff's only eighteen at
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 3: And I think I got bumped. Me and my brother
Speaker 3: used to fight a lot, you.
Speaker 1: Know, like gett into physical wrestles and every now and
Speaker 1: then a punch should be thrown. But that's just how
Speaker 1: we were, you know. We loved each other, but we
Speaker 1: used to argue, bicker and fight andmember. On this day,
Speaker 1: I got bumped. I was fourteen, and I would have
Speaker 1: like bumped me in Jeff run from the other side
Speaker 1: of the wing to try to floor this guy.
Speaker 3: And I remember we're on the ring.
Speaker 1: I was wrestling with Jeff because I didn't want him
Speaker 1: to stick up for me. Yeah, so I was like,
Speaker 1: can look after myself on fourteen, you know, like I'm
Speaker 1: playing seniors and like the next, everyone's like, what's going
Speaker 1: on here? The two brothers are on the same team
Speaker 1: of fighting. So yeah, but like how much my foot
Speaker 1: he meant to him? Yeah, I mean he loved it.
Speaker 1: Even when I thought I wasn't going to get drafted,
Speaker 1: I missed a few drafts, he was always the one
Speaker 1: that cheering me on, saying, mate, you get drafted, like
Speaker 1: you're too good, not too And when I was doubting myself,
Speaker 1: he was. He was always the one there to make
Speaker 1: sure I believed in myself. And you know, I got drafted.
Speaker 1: He was probably as proud as I was.
Speaker 2: So what did you think about the fact that you
Speaker 2: became this footy star.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he thought he was a star. I
Speaker 3: think as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, he was at every game, the
Speaker 1: beer in hand and probably cheering as loud as anyone.
Speaker 1: But I just know how proud he was and how
Speaker 1: much he loved it. And yeah, I mean that's what
Speaker 1: I was saying before about the people that you play
Speaker 1: footy for, and he was definitely one of them. And
Speaker 1: I run out now. I think last year I wore
Speaker 1: an armband every game last year, and you know, I
Speaker 1: just thinking about him every day.
Speaker 3: So he's he's a special man and he means a
Speaker 3: lot to me.
Speaker 2: You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Michael Hibbard April twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Tell me about that day and when you first heard
Speaker 2: that he'd gone missing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: I remember my part of my wife's family have a
Speaker 1: beach house down and Dremana and Jeff went missing off Flinders,
Speaker 1: which is only fifteen minute drive away on the other
Speaker 1: side of the on the other side of the bay.
Speaker 1: And he's a keen fisherman. I think he he had
Speaker 1: a few beers with his mates and went out pretty early.
Speaker 1: But I remember being down there that morning and we
Speaker 1: were about to leave head back up to the city
Speaker 1: and the wings were that bad that I didn't even
Speaker 1: want to take out the bins. I didn't ever want
Speaker 1: to go outside. We even postponed out drives just because
Speaker 1: we didn't want to go through that weather. And then
Speaker 1: I'll get a phone and get back home and I've
Speaker 1: jumped in bed. I would have been maybe eleven o'clock
Speaker 1: at night. Ten o'clock at night. My little sister rings
Speaker 1: me and she's like, oh, I've heard from Jeff. I said, no,
Speaker 1: what's going on. I don't want to alarm you. You know,
Speaker 1: he's no one's heard from him all day, and his
Speaker 1: car and his trailer at the Flinders Peer. His boat's
Speaker 1: not here, and you know, no one's heard from him.
Speaker 1: And I'm not Flinder's piers surely didn't go at fishing today.
Speaker 1: He only had a three meter dinghy or something. And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, no, there's helicopters and stuff looking. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is serious, and I knew them and there, but yeah,
Speaker 1: he wasn't so he wasn't coming back. And but my
Speaker 1: family didn't. They still and Jeff's gone missing several times,
Speaker 1: like you know, for days where he's with his mates
Speaker 1: and he might break his phone or something. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I knew then and there I've been out fishing several
Speaker 1: times that he was gone, and because just because of
Speaker 1: the weather and how bad it was, and it was
Speaker 1: pretty hard to My sister was so calm on the phone.
Speaker 1: I don't think she understood the severity of it at
Speaker 1: the time. And yeah, it was hard to try and
Speaker 1: navigate a little bit of the hopes that we all
Speaker 1: were having. But knowing that the hope was so slim
Speaker 1: for me, but it was so high for my family
Speaker 1: at the time, and yeah, it was. It was a
Speaker 1: tough night and I'm not sure how I slept, but
Speaker 1: I woke up at about I would have got a
Speaker 1: couple of hours sleep and I drove straight down there
Speaker 1: to the pier. The next day, I spoke to the
Speaker 1: police and made sure I was the first point of
Speaker 1: call because my mum and dad couldn't really handle what
Speaker 1: was going on at the time.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it was. It was pretty hard.
Speaker 1: I think as soon as the phone call ended from
Speaker 1: my sister that night, I broke down at the end
Speaker 1: of the bed. It's probably a moment my wife probably
Speaker 1: scarred by more than me. Yeah, because I knew. I
Speaker 1: knew straight away, but my family didn't. That was probably
Speaker 1: the hard thing.
Speaker 2: How do you get through a moment like that?
Speaker 3: I think I think I was.
Speaker 1: I went into just the care take a role for
Speaker 1: my family, to be honest, and that helped distract me
Speaker 1: from probably the emotions that I was going through. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to to be strong as strong
Speaker 1: as I could. I'd take my moments to cry on
Speaker 1: the shower rather than show not It's not weakness to cry,
Speaker 1: but I knew it would flare up my family, and
Speaker 1: I didn't want to see them upset, So yeah, I
Speaker 1: take time to myself to to let out a cry.
Speaker 1: And I was very lucky, you know, my wife was
Speaker 1: with me the whole time, and my mates like EURLs
Speaker 1: and a lot of the boys I played footy with,
Speaker 1: Jake Malsham, Alex Brown, Tom Bell Chambers, guys that I've
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time playing foota with. They drove
Speaker 1: straight down to Jermana to be with me. And I'm
Speaker 1: very lucky that I've got friends and a wife that
Speaker 1: were able to support me during that tough, tough period.
Speaker 1: We're on the COVID break at the time before the
Speaker 1: round two. I don't know if you're sure you remember,
Speaker 1: but so it was hard, you know, like we weren't
Speaker 1: supposed to have more than two people in the house
Speaker 1: and we had about twelve. You know, we broke all
Speaker 1: COVID laws and I think the police understood that.
Speaker 3: So it was hard.
Speaker 1: It was still it's still still pretty raw, and still
Speaker 1: get a little bit emotional when I talk about it now.
Speaker 1: But I'm very lucky that I have the people in
Speaker 1: my life that were able to support me and help
Speaker 1: me get through it. But definitely supporting my family and
Speaker 1: trying knowing that I needed to be a rock for
Speaker 1: them was a good distraction for me.
Speaker 2: Were you getting looked after as well? Though?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I spoke to I spoke to people
Speaker 1: about it. I made sure I set up day if
Speaker 1: I were really good. They gave people just for my
Speaker 1: my niece. My brother had an eight year old or
Speaker 1: seven at the time, seven year old at the time.
Speaker 1: They made sure that they organized for her, you know,
Speaker 1: Jeff's ex partner, to talk to people, my mom, my dad,
Speaker 1: and my sister, and I made sure that was happening
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, because you know, who knows how
Speaker 1: bad things can get in your mind when something like
Speaker 1: that happens.
Speaker 3: As we were all new.
Speaker 1: To it and I was doing the same, I was
Speaker 1: pretty active on speaking to the PYC at the club
Speaker 1: about how I was feeling and more about how to
Speaker 1: navigate my family because that was what I was worried about.
Speaker 3: The most, and also just always rely on my mates.
Speaker 1: So I was sitting there talk to them about it
Speaker 1: and yeah, have a cry and have a beer, and
Speaker 1: I felt like that was the best way for me
Speaker 1: and yeah, to not distract myself from what happened, but
Speaker 1: to I mean talk it out and kind of just
Speaker 1: just try to get through every day, to be honest,
Speaker 1: every day, he just I just wanted every day to
Speaker 1: just keep ticking along and hopefully you'd get easier. And
Speaker 1: it gets easier, but it's still hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, after that initial twenty four hours, what transpires from
Speaker 2: there because he was never found, right, yeah, it was, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, he was never found.
Speaker 1: Twenty four hours later, you know, you know, we're hoping
Speaker 1: that you know, he's lost his phone in this is
Speaker 1: a slim hope that my family had.
Speaker 3: He's lost his phone, he had a life.
Speaker 1: Jacket on and he's at least swept to a shore
Speaker 1: and he just his phone doesn't work and he's a
Speaker 1: long walk from a house or something, and we're just
Speaker 1: waiting for a phone call.
Speaker 3: That was kind of the hope that where that everyone had.
Speaker 1: As I said, in my mind, I knew that was
Speaker 1: a long shot, but that was my family's hope. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think, yeah, just twenty four hours later,
Speaker 1: there's the boat. The boat that Jeff was in was
Speaker 1: found a pyramid rock which on Philip Poland smashed up
Speaker 1: against rocks and there was no sign of the two boys.
Speaker 1: Jason was the other guy that was with. He was
Speaker 1: a twenty one year old kid and my brother was
Speaker 1: thirty four, and they wanted to go squidding and obviously
Speaker 1: picked the wrong day to do it. And yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that was pretty hard. And there was always this thought,
Speaker 1: not knowing too much about the water, that if he
Speaker 1: had a life jacket, maybe he would just float out
Speaker 1: and eventually they'll find him. But we were told that
Speaker 1: he had about fifteen and it's to live in that
Speaker 1: in the water, so we knew once they went overboard.
Speaker 1: Well I didn't know at the time, but once I
Speaker 1: was told that once he was overboard, you know, he
Speaker 1: would have he would have hypothermia and died pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's been pretty hard, you know, not having
Speaker 1: a body, not having not been able to have a funeral,
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I mean once
Speaker 1: they found the boat, that was just another another piece
Speaker 1: that was hard to It became a lot more real.
Speaker 2: Has your family been able to grieve him?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: And no. I mean, you know, mum, it's pretty active
Speaker 1: on Facebook and nearly and it's it's hard. I nearly
Speaker 1: really nearly need to mute my mum. Sometimes because you know,
Speaker 1: there's always a post about my brother and it can
Speaker 1: trigger me sometimes, and you know, I think about him
Speaker 1: every day, but sometimes seeing baby photos of us together
Speaker 1: or you know, birthdays, Christmases and stuff, it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: it does bring out that raw emotion still to this day.
Speaker 1: It has been eighteen months now, so I mean, to grieve, have.
Speaker 3: A funeral, we weren't able to do it.
Speaker 1: Only actually got the death certificate about three weeks ago.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm reading that and reading the transcripts of
Speaker 1: what transpired before that, which you know, as I said,
Speaker 1: I was the first point of call to the police
Speaker 1: and they sent all that to me before my family,
Speaker 1: and I still can't.
Speaker 3: Show on that.
Speaker 1: I can't let them read any of that stuff because
Speaker 1: I'm fearful of how it's going to make them feel,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they want to read it anyway.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we hope. We still haven't had a funeral.
Speaker 1: We try we organize a memorial. They threw us in
Speaker 1: the lockdown, so it was about two days before we
Speaker 1: were planning to have a big memorial and then we
Speaker 1: couldn't have one. So I mean, we've had little family
Speaker 1: gatherings for him, but nothing where friends and family, aunties,
Speaker 1: uncles have been able to sit there and tell the
Speaker 1: story of Jeff. We haven't been able to do that,
Speaker 1: and I think we're going to try to do it
Speaker 1: at the two year, at the two year point of
Speaker 1: he's missing.
Speaker 3: So I mean, that'd been nice to do. After that
Speaker 3: is the raw emotion to be there, and hopefully it's
Speaker 3: just a celebration.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did it feel when you're holding the death
Speaker 2: certificate in your hand?
Speaker 1: After that, it's on my email, so I don't actually
Speaker 1: have a physical certificate, but I mean I got something
Speaker 1: a few months back saying he'd nearly been concluded. And
Speaker 1: I've read all the transcripts, and you know, they have
Speaker 1: videos that were happening, you know, ten minutes, an hour,
Speaker 1: two hours before, messages, phone calls who we'd spoke to,
Speaker 1: and even snapchat videos that they'd saved, and you know,
Speaker 1: and sometimes some of the stuff was to them talking
Speaker 1: about going fishing and oh but the weather's a bit
Speaker 1: bargain like. Reading those things made it feel so like
Speaker 1: I felt like I was there, and that was pretty hard,
Speaker 1: you know, and then actually getting the desertificate and not
Speaker 1: being able to actually have a school funeral until you
Speaker 1: so you kind of have have one of those. Is
Speaker 1: is hard because you know he's not here. That's that's
Speaker 1: been pretty hard for my family, more so my family
Speaker 1: than me. I mean, I've had so many distractions along
Speaker 1: the way that have been able to Like football was
Speaker 1: just a blessing. Being able to just go out and
Speaker 1: train and have people around me constantly helped helped me
Speaker 1: get through a tough year and a half, whereas my
Speaker 1: parents were in lockdown at home on their owns, with
Speaker 1: their own feelings, and.
Speaker 3: That was hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess the hardest part was only a
Speaker 1: few weeks a month or whatever after he passed, I'll
Speaker 1: get shipped off to a hub in Queensland. I can't
Speaker 1: even be there to support my family. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: that was hard in itself.
Speaker 2: So yeah, how tough was that for you? To get
Speaker 2: through the hub and the complications and compounding nature of COVID.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was early. It was really hard.
Speaker 1: And I'm still fascinated by the water now still, Like
Speaker 1: I remember, I were in Manly only I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how long ago Jefford passed. It would only been a
Speaker 1: month or two and we went to Manly for her
Speaker 1: first hub and as the surf of a decade or
Speaker 1: something that was out there, and I just felt like
Speaker 1: jumping out in the water and you're trying to experience
Speaker 1: maybe what he was feeling just before, you know, the
Speaker 1: lack of control you have in the water. And I'm
Speaker 1: still fascinated by that. I mean, I don't go far
Speaker 1: enough to where I'm going to drown or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but I think some people will steer away from the water,
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of gravitating to it because of what's happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was hard just being away from my
Speaker 1: family and hearing how emotional everyone was and not being
Speaker 1: able to be physically there to cuddle my sister and
Speaker 1: my mom and my dad, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: really hard. But one thing it has done, you know,
Speaker 1: we tell each other we love it. I love each
Speaker 1: other on the phone more more than ever, and when
Speaker 1: we catch up, I make sure you know I do
Speaker 1: show that a bit more when it probably when it
Speaker 1: takes something like this to happen to your family to
Speaker 1: realize how much you do love these people and you
Speaker 1: don't show it or tell people enough.
Speaker 2: Getting in the water, is it? Is it wanting a
Speaker 2: closeness to him, or is it wanting an understanding of
Speaker 2: what happened or what.
Speaker 1: I think it was more of an understanding of what
Speaker 1: happened and just knowing how how and he had such
Speaker 1: like so limited control of what's going on out there,
Speaker 1: And you.
Speaker 3: Know, I do I do.
Speaker 1: I go down to the Flinder's Pier to talk to him.
Speaker 1: I've done that a few times, you know, on Christmas,
Speaker 1: on his birthdays, and so I do. I do feel
Speaker 1: like I am closer to him when I'm in the water.
Speaker 1: So I don't know where he is, but I know
Speaker 1: he's out there somewhere kind of thing. So that's something
Speaker 1: that you know, I don't have a I don't have
Speaker 1: the cemetery to go to. I just go to I'll
Speaker 1: go down to Flinders Pier. But yeah, definitely, initially the
Speaker 1: fascination with the water was to understand maybe what what
Speaker 1: what he was feeling just before he died.
Speaker 2: What do you say to him when you visit him?
Speaker 3: That's yeah.
Speaker 1: I've got a nine month old daughter, and I knew
Speaker 1: he was really excited for us to have kids, and
Speaker 1: I was to talk to him about her, to be honest, Sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was telling him about her and and how much
Speaker 1: I miss him.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah I could.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I don't apologize.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's sorry. That's a that's a hard
Speaker 1: one for me to talk about my daughter. And she'll
Speaker 1: never get to know uncle Jeff. And it's a picture
Speaker 1: of him in the him presenting me my first album, Jumper,
Speaker 1: and there's a photo of it in the landrum and
Speaker 1: I get her there every morning, I say good morning.
Speaker 3: To uncle Jeff.
Speaker 1: So she starts pointing at now. It's quite funny, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's very sad.
Speaker 2: You want her to know exactly who he was and
Speaker 2: who is to you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, the morning rituals I love money, wine,
Speaker 1: fridge and I say salo to Salo to the fridge,
Speaker 1: and make sure you salo to uncle Jeff.
Speaker 3: And yeah, she will, you know, it is. It is very.
Speaker 1: Sad, and it's emotional for me that she will. She
Speaker 1: won't physically know her uncle Jeff, but she'll definitely she'll
Speaker 1: know who he was, and I'll make.
Speaker 3: Sure of that.
Speaker 1: And I don't think people are ever are ever dead
Speaker 1: until you stop talking about them. And I never stopped
Speaker 1: talking about Jeff. I'll tell him to tell stories. Every
Speaker 1: every time I get on the beers with my mates,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're family functions and we all still
Speaker 1: talk about him. So in my mind, he's still here
Speaker 1: because we've still got so many memories and so many
Speaker 1: good times and so many things to laugh about. So
Speaker 1: he's still here in Mars, and every now and then
Speaker 1: I find myself talking to him. Before the Grand Final,
Speaker 1: I said, if you're going to do anything for me,
Speaker 1: just make sure you make sure you make us win,
Speaker 1: because you know Yomi enough.
Speaker 3: And yeah, he did that, so that's nice.
Speaker 2: His daughter as well. How much of an active role
Speaker 2: do you play in her life?
Speaker 1: Yeah, COVID over the last six months has been hard,
Speaker 1: But initially my wife and I would get her a
Speaker 1: couple of days a week to make sure, you know,
Speaker 1: she knew.
Speaker 3: She had people, had people that loved.
Speaker 1: Her and that would take care of her if anything,
Speaker 1: if anything ever happened. And obviously the worst happened with Jeff,
Speaker 1: but we were, you know, because they were in Dramaa
Speaker 1: at the time, and we've got the beach house down
Speaker 1: in Dremana, so we we we'd go down there and
Speaker 1: spend a fair bit of time with her. And and
Speaker 1: prior to Jeff passing, I didn't have a massive relationship
Speaker 1: with with Indy, my niece. We'd speak on the phone
Speaker 1: a little bit, and when I was with Jeff, i'd
Speaker 1: see her, but i'd never get time just us and
Speaker 1: and we Anthony and I really took that on for
Speaker 1: for for a for a few months. We'd get her
Speaker 1: a couple of days a week and and make sure
Speaker 1: that you know, I was just trying to do fun
Speaker 1: things with her. And you know, she still doesn't talk
Speaker 1: about him too much. It's but she doesn't like bringing
Speaker 1: it up. She's she's a strange one. She's that's a sink.
Speaker 1: It makes us sad, so she doesn't not talking about it.
Speaker 1: But we try to make sure that there's never going
Speaker 1: to get to a point where she forgets him, and
Speaker 1: I don't think she ever will. But yeah, it is hard,
Speaker 1: especially as I said during COVID, not to be able
Speaker 1: to support her as much as I would have liked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was definitely hard, and I just I just knew
Speaker 1: that's what Jeff would have wanted, for us to go
Speaker 1: down there and really make sure.
Speaker 3: She was okay. And I felt like I played my
Speaker 3: role on that and still do to this day.
Speaker 2: What does a footy club mean when you're going through
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, I'm very lucky that I am in
Speaker 1: the industry. I mean, because I'm not sure I could
Speaker 1: have it made it a lot easier. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I could have done it without them. Everyone throws their
Speaker 1: arms around you. You know, footy club is a loving
Speaker 1: place with a lot of everyone gets along really well.
Speaker 3: And to go.
Speaker 1: Into a footy club and them know and what happened
Speaker 1: and to help me in whatever way they can, whether
Speaker 1: it's just a hug or you ask him if I'm okay,
Speaker 1: taken me out for a beer, and you know, and
Speaker 1: then it's good. Like I can share these stories about
Speaker 1: Jeff and that makes me feel better. But I'm very
Speaker 1: fortunate that, in probably the worst tragedy I've had in
Speaker 1: my life, that I'm at a football club right behind
Speaker 1: me and a good family and friends.
Speaker 2: So you get to twenty twenty one and you've had
Speaker 2: all sorts of injuries and issues, but you find yourself
Speaker 2: back in the team and they make it through to
Speaker 2: a Grand final and you find yourself in that team
Speaker 2: that day. Given everything you've spoken about in the last
Speaker 2: hour Essendon, going through everything with your brother and how
Speaker 2: much he loved your footy career. What did that day
Speaker 2: mean to you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very special. You know, it just didn't
Speaker 1: seem real. You know, all these things, all these sliding
Speaker 1: to all moments, all the things that happen. It seems
Speaker 1: obviously not the jefferal thing was worth it, but everything
Speaker 1: that I've been through just you know, it was justified.
Speaker 1: And knowing I was talking to Jeff before the game
Speaker 1: the night before, I think even a couple of lots
Speaker 1: Steven May even said he even send him a prayers
Speaker 1: and make sure we win. And you know it is
Speaker 1: it's very it's very nice, and it's just an unbelievable
Speaker 1: feeling and it still is now thinking about everything that's
Speaker 1: happened and to be able to live out the lifelong
Speaker 1: dream of winning a premiership with the team, it's what
Speaker 1: everyone strives to do. And knowing that I've been through
Speaker 1: a fair bit and gotten out the other side, he
Speaker 1: was gratifying, and the competitor in me like, I'm very
Speaker 1: proud of what I've done, and the competitor in me
Speaker 1: this is like, Okay, now I want to do it.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: I want that feeling again. But I just knew Jeff
Speaker 1: would be so proud, and I knew my family were proud,
Speaker 1: and I know that you know they were thinking of
Speaker 1: him when you know they they were like, he got
Speaker 1: you back in the team. You know, at the end
Speaker 1: of the year, they're saying all these things. You know,
Speaker 1: he had, he had something to play and that. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I thought I had something to do with it as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been training my ass off heres.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know, timing is everything.
Speaker 1: I was very you know, even though I played most
Speaker 1: of the year, and timing was everything for me to
Speaker 1: fall into that team in the prelim week and per
Speaker 1: form my role on prelim day and then and then
Speaker 1: on the grand final day on the big stage, and
Speaker 1: to have a metal around my neck and to celebrate
Speaker 1: with my family even though they weren't there physically, or
Speaker 1: my brother was from darn. Actually I ran him, ran him,
Speaker 1: I ran the cup over to him. He got't after
Speaker 1: you saw that footage, but he Yeah, that was that
Speaker 1: was really nice and makes it all worth it.
Speaker 2: Did you you said you right on your wristband?
Speaker 1: Did you say, yeah, yeah, I wore in two thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty, I wore an armband all year. I didn't
Speaker 1: do that this year. The part, the part of me
Speaker 1: needs to, you know, not ever forget Jeff. I talked
Speaker 1: to him every day. I think of him every day.
Speaker 1: But I thought that's you know, that was last year
Speaker 1: and this year's a new year. And the Grand Final
Speaker 1: day was obviously a really special one for me where
Speaker 1: I knew he was going to be with me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just wrote g H and no Mad on my wristband,
Speaker 1: so I gave it a kiss before the game, gave
Speaker 1: it a kiss afterwards, and I didn't I didn't take
Speaker 1: it off till about Thursday. I don't think same as
Speaker 1: my medal, I or that for a week straight. And
Speaker 1: I left my Uncle tape on for about four days,
Speaker 1: and I left the Risk tape on for about seven.
Speaker 1: So I'm just yeah, it was, Yeah, he was with
Speaker 1: me for sure.
Speaker 2: Did you feel at any moment during that game that
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like I was in the second half,
Speaker 1: I kind of just had front row seats to the
Speaker 1: greatest on slaught ever and yeah, in the in the
Speaker 1: ground final, but as soon as the sign went it
Speaker 1: was hard not to think of him. Straight away how
Speaker 1: much he meant to my footy career and how much
Speaker 1: my footy career meant to him. And you know, if
Speaker 1: if there are if he is up there watching and
Speaker 1: he was watching that game, for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah he would have been pretty damn parad I reckon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he would have been. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: After the Grand Final? Did you get any messages from
Speaker 2: the Bombers.
Speaker 3: Boys several before and after?
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so many and and Esson supporters, a
Speaker 1: lot of COG groups at Estenon, and I used to
Speaker 1: make friends with a lot of those people. Spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time with the amount of love that I
Speaker 1: got from the Eston supporters and community and you know
Speaker 1: people at the footy club, whether it was the CEO
Speaker 1: of z Ab Campbell and a lot of the guys
Speaker 1: I played with I hadn't heard from from a long time,
Speaker 1: was overwhelming. They couldn't have been happier for me. So
Speaker 1: I made a lot of friends at that football club
Speaker 1: and friends to this day. And guys you don't hear
Speaker 1: from as much, but to hear from people that you
Speaker 1: you know, you played with, even it was two games,
Speaker 1: whether it was fifty games, whatever, it was it was
Speaker 1: the support was there and yeah it was as very nice?
Speaker 2: Was it doing it for them as much? Just as
Speaker 2: anything as well?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know that I was.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I thought about it, I knew that
Speaker 1: I was the only one that was going to play
Speaker 1: in a Grand final out of especially the thirty four
Speaker 1: and apart from Fletch, he played a couple of grand finals.
Speaker 3: He was about fifty.
Speaker 1: Yeah beforehand, but afterwards yeah, and I got a lot
Speaker 1: of messages about that and then rooting for me, and
Speaker 1: it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: The first quiet moment that you had to yourself after
Speaker 2: winning the flag. I imagine that was a few loud moments,
Speaker 2: but the first quiet moment that you had to yourself,
Speaker 2: did you reflect on it all? Or have you had
Speaker 2: a moment where you've reflect did on everything?
Speaker 1: I know it was a really emotional one after the
Speaker 1: prelim for me, like to get through to the Grand Final.
Speaker 1: I rang my wife and cried and I knew I
Speaker 1: didn't have to play the next week, and obviously the
Speaker 1: former in I thought we were going to win. And
Speaker 1: but after the ground, for after the wine, there wasn't
Speaker 1: many quiet moments. There's always someone there and it was
Speaker 1: a big few days, but I have had time to
Speaker 1: reflect and it still just doesn't seem really in a way,
Speaker 1: like it's it's so surreal the fact that something that
Speaker 1: I've strived to do from when I was five years
Speaker 1: old and all these things that happened along the way,
Speaker 1: and to be able to achieve what I've achieved when
Speaker 1: I would have been happy with just one game at
Speaker 1: AFL level, I'll pinched myself and yeah, it's I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure when I'm done, I'll when I'm done with
Speaker 1: my footy, I'll I hopefully I have more. But I'm regardless,
Speaker 1: I'm super proud of what I've been able to do
Speaker 1: and under the circumstances that I've been that have been
Speaker 1: throwing my way.
Speaker 2: As well, you should be proud. You've been through a
Speaker 2: heck of a lot, Like it's an insane story what
Speaker 2: you've shared over the last hour. You should be really
Speaker 2: proud of everything you've overcome and what you've achieved on
Speaker 2: top of it.
Speaker 1: Thanks, it's been it's been good, and like I wouldn't
Speaker 1: change anything for the world. Obviously, I wish my brother
Speaker 1: was here, but certain things happened for a reason, and
Speaker 1: this is my story. There's so many different stories out
Speaker 1: there of hardship and this is just mine. You know,
Speaker 1: it's my story. I'm glad I can share it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just super happy with how my life has turned out,
Speaker 1: and the football club has had so much to do
Speaker 1: with it. Both football clubs have changed me into a
Speaker 1: grab from Frankston to hopefully a nice man that lives
Speaker 1: in Caulfield now.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was more down morning to wait.
Speaker 3: It sells the story better.
Speaker 2: Do you think you're a better person all?
Speaker 1: Definitely. It's you surround yourself with people you know. And
Speaker 1: in my first few years I was a bit rough
Speaker 1: around the edges, and anyone from Essen will tell you
Speaker 1: it's crazy to think what I've been able to achieve.
Speaker 1: And the person I am now is a totally different
Speaker 1: person than what I was when I walked through the door.
Speaker 1: I surrounded myself with good characters. Michael Hurley, Joe Watson
Speaker 1: was a really close friend of mine, Cale Hooker, Tom
Speaker 1: Bell Chambers. Those guys really nurtured me and nursed me
Speaker 1: into a decent young man, I guess, and rather than
Speaker 1: a kid that could have thrown his career away really
Speaker 1: quickly and I'm definitely a better person now for the
Speaker 1: people that I've met and being in the industry, I mean,
Speaker 1: and I've met something nice people along the way that
Speaker 1: have helped me out with that.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate the last hour. Thank you for everything
Speaker 2: that you've shared, and congratulations on winning the flag as well.
Speaker 2: Huge well done on that one. But thanks for being
Speaker 2: so open and honest, because I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people listen and they're going through their own grief or
Speaker 2: their own difficulties, and I know because they've shared it
Speaker 2: with me that it helps them to hear stories like yours.
Speaker 2: So I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure and hopefully you're right, And if this
Speaker 1: helps anyone in any way, then I'm glad I did
Speaker 1: it anyway, but it just makes it more worth while.
Speaker 2: Thanks Mane Tears Soon Time. Thanks for listening to this
Speaker 2: episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If you're new to the podcast,
Speaker 2: go back and check out the previous two seasons. If
Speaker 2: this chat was triggering for you, please know there is
Speaker 2: help out there beyond blue dot org, dot au or
Speaker 2: Lifeline one three, double one one four A just a
Speaker 2: couple of places you can go. A new episode will
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Speaker 2: at ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or at narrowly underscore
Speaker 2: Meadows on Twitter. Thanks for listen us a Rica from you,
Speaker 2: right Ala Bada. Tell me that you want to be.
Speaker 1: Just not me, That you want to me.
Speaker 2: Because I'm Competraey the fire with food.
Speaker 3: Send me that you want a big