WEBVTT - Michael Hibberd - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.560 Ordinarily Speaking, a premiership means the world. Given everything that 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.560 I've been through and overcome, it means so much. 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:30.000 More tax on time. Hello and welcome to season three 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.320 of Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.440 I'm Narrowly Meadows. We kick off the season with a 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.320 man who has overcome public scrutiny and personal tragedy to 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:46.400 eventually achieve his ultimate sporting dream and AFL premiership, a 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.720 premiership fifty seven years in the making, no less. Michael 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.519 Hibbard was one of the band thirty four at Essendon. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.400 The players endured the impacts of the supplement saga for years, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.480 rocking their trust in people and love for the game. Ultimately, 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.880 Michael made the call to leave the club and move 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.479 to the Melbourne Demons. That professional turmoil was followed by 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.319 personal tragedy. In April twenty twenty, Michael's older brother Jeff 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.759 was lost at sea. He went out fishing one morning 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.959 and never returned. In September last year, when the final 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.640 siren rang on the AFL Grand Final, Michael's first thoughts 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.360 were with his big brother. He did it for him, 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.640 for his family, and in part for the band thirty four. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.160 This is a story of incredible resilience motivated by the 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.800 love of family. We caught up in Michael's home in Melbourne. 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:51.120 I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:52.920 for joining me, Michael, I really appreciate it. 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:55.840 That's a pleasure. Good. 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:02.600 That's good. Your story is one of just incredible resilience. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.040 Were you always that way or is it something that 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.320 you've learned throughout life. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.480 I guess growing up by older brothers and my dad 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:16.480 was pretty strong, staunch character. Yeah, so I guess over 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.400 the years you're just you're toughen up with an older 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:20.840 brother and a dad like that. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:22.160 But yeah, I. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.680 Guess the upbringing where else from you having an older 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:27.919 brother with older mates and you end up hanging out 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:29.680 with them and they toughen you up a little bit. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.760 But being resilient, I guess yeah. I think you just 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.880 you find yourself in situations and you never know how 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.360 you're going to handle them until they're in front of you, 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.320 And I guess being resilient. I think I am a 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.600 resilient character. Hopefully people see that. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.320 It sounds like you've got a few stories from your childhood. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.280 By that description, Yeah, yeah, plenty of stories. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:51.760 Obviously, there are two older brothers. One that lives in 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.160 Darwen is my half brother. Yeah, we speak on the 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.680 phone regularly every day, and we've got many stories together. 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.560 And Jeff even dad, like his dad was a footy 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.560 player down home, and apparently he's pretty. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.560 Rough and tumble, and you know. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.280 I used to play local footy and everyone used to 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.840 tell me about how he was a good player, but 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:12.840 he was a bit of a thug. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.720 So you hate me saying that, but yeah, I guess. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.000 You know, you have no choice. 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.320 When that's the perception of your family. You want to 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.679 kind of live up and make them proud. And I guess, yeah, 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:24.919 that's kind of how I've been. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.960 You've said all of that with a smile on your face. Laugh. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.280 It makes me laugh thinking of just mu childhood and 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:32.960 some of the stuff we used to get up to, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.600 and yeah, just the mischief and and all. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:36.080 That kind of stuff. 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:37.480 Yeah, did you get into trouble. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.360 Trouble found me. I feel like trouble we used to 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:43.720 find me quite. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:48.720 Regularly, and over the years I've been able to divert 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.600 my life in a direction where I'm Trouble doesn't find 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:52.400 me as much anymore. 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.120 Well, I like to think that anyway. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.320 Is it where are you from Frankston? 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.960 Some of it was were at the town suburb I 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.560 grew up in, which is probably ten minutes out of Frankston, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.920 ten minutes out of Mornington. So when people say from Frankston, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.160 I always liked via towards Mornington, so it seems a 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.440 bit nicer. But because I played VFL at Frankston, so 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.440 I got drafted from. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.360 Yeah, the stigma is I'm a Frankston boy, but yeah, 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.400 you know I wear it. That's fine. I am. 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.479 I guess at Frankston boy. I'm from down that area 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.599 and can be a bit rough growing up down there. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.039 Once again said with a smile on your face, I 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.680 love it. I wanted to start by asking you about 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.160 everything that went down at Essendon. It was such a 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.560 big story from the outside looking in. What was it 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.520 like living through that as one of the thirty four? 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.360 Yeah, I mean there's so much to It's that was 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.440 a fair while ago. I was in my second year, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.960 you know when Saga started. I think it ended twenty twelve, thirteen, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.320 and you know, I was pretty young, and it was 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:56.320 it was big news, and I'm at one of the 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.800 biggest clubs in the land, and you know, this is 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.800 on front and back news, you know, nearly every day 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:05.760 for a long time, so it was how you couldn't 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:10.360 escape it. It was, you know, sometimes quite emotional, but 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.640 you know, the best thing was on the weekends when 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.720 you could just go out and play and try and 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:16.479 put it behind you. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:17.719 But it was hard. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.080 It was hard for everyone at different levels. Definitely had 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.640 my moments, but it was hard on me because you've 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.680 felt embarrassed to even go to family functions or or 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.719 even out in public because it was the first thing 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.400 people that'd ask you. And you know, over the course 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.800 of time, it's become a bit easier and I can 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.760 talk about it pretty openly now, so it's fine now 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.320 I feel like i'ved up with it pretty well. But 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.919 at the time and over five year span, it definitely 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.840 wore people down, and I was one of those as well. 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.240 It must have been hard. When you say you were 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.400 only in your second year, I mean, of course you were, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.239 but it shocks me to think back that that was happening. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.760 Then that's a really hard thing to know what to 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:00.880 do as a young player, I would imagine. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.480 Yeah, definitely, still I'm still bullish on players were in 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.760 no fault or no wrong I think as a second 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.280 year player, it's like, you know, someone runs. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:12.839 Out of water bottle. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.479 You expect there's water in that bottle, and at the time, 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.919 you know, I think the leadership group did a enough 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.640 to make sure nothing there was no wrongdoing or anything 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.440 bad was getting thrown into us, and we were definitely 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.840 told that there was nothing. And you know it, as 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.120 a first second year player, you're kind of just doing 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.839 what you're told. You're trying to make your name for 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.640 yourself and make sure you're you know, you're fitting in 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.040 with the team. And yeah, at the time, you're just 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.080 trying to you just fall on the pack. I guess 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.720 I wasn't. I was only twenty one or twenty two. 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.160 So yeah, it was hard to know what to do 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.000 and what was right and what was wrong. But I 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.120 guess hindsight it's a lovely thing and if we had 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.400 that then things would be different, that's for sure. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.279 Did you at any point worry, like, did you to 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.920 worry about what you've done and your role in it? 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.080 Not personally, I think because there's so many other older 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.760 guys that were you know, job was the face of 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.120 it really and a. 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:11.840 Lot of the leadership. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.120 I was just kind of just in the group that 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.120 was just hanging on and wondering what was going on. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.680 And it was a bit of that, like a bit 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.720 of anxiety and you know, what's going to happen to us? 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.440 You know, we're playing I think we got kicked out 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.640 of the finals one year, and you know, just like 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.360 there's so much talk around in the media of what 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.440 was going to happen, and then we were told certain 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.880 things were going to happen, you know, and we did know, 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.360 and ever knew. It was just this unknown and that 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.320 put a stress on your day to day life. Was 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.200 it was just a constant talking point at the club 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.560 and the people around you. So it made it made 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.640 go on to training hard at times because that was 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.920 rather than focus on getting better and training hard and 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:53.720 wanted to play well. 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.240 That was always in the back of your mind. 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.920 So I mean, you know, we had we had each 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.200 other to lean on, but it was definitely hard, that's 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:00.560 for sure. 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.720 Does it stay with you when you go home as well. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.920 Yeah, definitely, it's on the news, it's you talk about it, 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.200 you know, and we're having so many meetings. We used 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.560 to call them crisis meetings. The AFLPA would come in, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.480 or a STATA would come in, or lawyers would come 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:18.960 in and talk to us. You know, this is a 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:24.360 bit later, not so early, twenty fourteen fifteen kind of times, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.800 Like you have a lot of these meetings that are 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.240 happening regularly, and then it's hard not to go home 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.160 and talk to your partner about it or your family 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.400 of bringing up and wondering what's going on. You know, 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.319 a lot of the younger kids, a lot of their 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.160 families were I really wanted to know what was what 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.440 was happening there to their children. And that's fair enough. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.559 I'm sure I'd be the same if I was in 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.439 there boat. So I did go home with us. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.480 Did it take a toll on you that time? 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:53.520 Yeah? 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:53.920 It did. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.600 I think as I said, like just little things like 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.120 family stuff, birthdays. Would probably turn down a few of 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.640 them right at the peak of when it was really 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.280 big news and you know, when the points got taken 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.800 away from us, or you know, certain times where it 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.280 was big news in the media. There was definitely times 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.120 where I'd turn down certain social events just because I 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.400 couldn't be bothered with the questions and all the talk 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.439 around it and if someone asked me a question, I'm 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.959 applied enough to try answer it, but I'll try avoid 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.840 the question altogether. So I did that a little bit, 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.000 and that definitely took a toll. And obviously the year 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.079 where we did get banned in twenty sixteen, it was 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:39.239 a pretty low moment for me and all of us really, like, yeah, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.120 it was hard to especially I thought probably that was 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.880 a time where twenty six is nearly your prime. I 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.200 was playing some good footy at the time, and I thought, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.280 you know, I'd make the next sleep and then to 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.679 be a year to be taken out and not knowing 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.719 how you will come back. The anxiety around that, yeah, 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.640 definitely stressed me out and a. 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.720 Lot of other What was that like when you first 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.720 heard about that band? What was that moment? 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.199 Like, we're all in a hotel in Saint Kilda. It 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.880 might have been an overtell or something like that, And 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:18.080 I kind of remember a conversation someone said, you know, 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.000 there was about four days of this hearing and we 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.120 were getting dripped fed a bit of information and apparently 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.920 one day we're up by four goals. It was the 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.800 talk that was going so we put it to footy 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.280 talk analogy, were up by four goals and then apparently 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.360 at three quarter time we were down by ten, so 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.280 we were like, yeah, so that was hard. And then 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.320 when the verdict came in, you know, been in a 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.920 room of your teammates, there would have been I'm not 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.360 sure all the thirty four were at least twenty to 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.559 twenty five of us seeing you know, guys you look 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:57.000 up to grown men cry knowing that you know you've 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.160 been taken out for a year of footy agame you 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.280 love and doing things together, and we've been through so 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.520 much together. We firstly we got off and then the 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:08.760 appeal went against us, so. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:09.920 That was hard. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.240 That was a very emotional day, just as I said, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:19.840 seeing your mates cry and and your leaders cry and 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.079 not knowing what's next, not knowing what to do, and 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.040 not knowing what will happen or how long exactly at 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:29.719 the time was pretty tough. But yeah, we pretty much 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.400 just went out and got on the piss and tried 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.000 to enjoy each other's company and we'd see what happened next. 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.559 Was there a moment where it hit you personally? 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:45.960 I think the first that day was more shock. I 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.720 think the weeks after that it hit me pretty hard 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.600 when you know, I didn't have the routine of footy anymore. 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.200 We weren't allowed to go into the club. And I've 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.480 never had a year year off of footy ever, and 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.559 I'm finally living my dream playing AFL, And how can 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.560 I come back from this? What will happen to me 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.320 after a year off not being in a professional environment. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.559 I'm not the most naturally gifted athlete. I have to 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.439 work hard on my endurance and all that. So there 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.840 was that playing on in the back of my mind 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.360 a lot, and there was different stages, especially over the year, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.760 where yeah, I was really struggling with it. I remember 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.480 going away with my wife, which was my partner at 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.960 the time, my wife now. We went to Bali a 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.439 couple of weeks after, and I had a few too 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.840 many beers one day and it kind of popped into 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.559 my mind and I was just a mess, crying and 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.880 I held it together pretty well until then, and I 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.200 think that's when I realized this has probably been weighing 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.280 on me for a while, and just unleashed a lot 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.800 of a lot of my motion and tears and kind 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.280 of glad I got it out. And then it took 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.040 a while for me to open up and talk about 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:57.480 that again. 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.000 Did you ever get help to talk about it? 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.520 Yeah, I mean the a f L and the a 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.000 f L p A are really good with speaking to 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.240 people and really pushing players to talk to people. I 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.439 think during the whole court process. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:10.960 During. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.959 For the players individual compensation and stuff, we all spoke 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.480 to a psych and they gave us a a rating 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.440 of how well or how badly you've been coping with it, 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.320 and guys at different levels. And you know, I spoke 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.720 to someone pretty actively too for a month or two 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.720 to make sure I was all good and I was fine. 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.040 I was pretty keen to just take time away from footy. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.880 That was I think the best thing for me at 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.880 the time. I didn't really think about football. A lot 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.480 of the boys might have been well documented that everyone 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.319 trained down at I think Saint Bernard's there for a 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.400 while is about ten of them, and you would have 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.360 been lucky to see me there once. I remember me 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.920 and Michael Hurley would just go run the ten, you know, 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.120 twice a week to make sure we don't flow out 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:01.160 to one hundred killers and. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:03.760 We just enjoyed our. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.360 Break running with the bulls as well. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.920 Yeah, I did that. Yeah, that was when we went 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.800 to Europe. So's I mean, that's another thing. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:10.840 That year. 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.120 I tried to take as many positives out of it 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.720 as I could, and I was able to do Europe summer. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.640 I spent a month with the boys, I spent a 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.080 month with my partner. After I spent a month with 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.120 the boys and their memories. I'll hold forever with those guys, 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.040 and I'm sure they'll say the same. We had some 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.880 good times and I did some stuff that being an 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.440 AFL football you never get the opportunity to do. So 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.160 there are positives to take out of it. Obviously, you 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:35.720 don't want to ever miss a year of footing and 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.480 one where I thought maybe I was hitting to the 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.560 peak of my football prime right in your mid twenties, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.960 mid to late twenties. But I tried to be positive 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.080 and thinking of the positives. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.520 Does it rock your trust in people when you go 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.120 through something like that, I. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:57.200 Think subconsciously it has to you do question a lot 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.280 of things now. I mean, I'm pretty Joe of your 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.480 kind of guy, and even the doctors will give give 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.760 me a panadeine now, and we joke, is this panadeine. 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.400 Like ed is a joke and we have a laugh 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:08.800 about it. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.440 But there must be a little bit of, you know, 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.600 a lack of trust now that I do have in 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.040 people like that. I mean, I do trust the doctors 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.320 at the Mobile Football Club, that's for sure now. And 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.360 I trusted the doctors at essen and Bruce Reid. He 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.320 was like a second father to me, and I don't 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.840 think he had any part to play in what happened. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.520 But you know, there are some people out there that 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.560 do do some dodgy things, and I think everyone's going 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.480 to be careful of that. But you know, I feel 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.840 like now I'm in a better spot and a bit older, 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:40.480 a bit wiser. 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.200 Do you reflect on it with any anger still? 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.960 My wife actually asked me this this morning when we're 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:53.040 talking about it. And I like to think that it 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.880 was so much has happened after that, and it's sliding 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.960 doors moment. You know, it was a decision I made 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.920 to leave Essenon. I had another year in my contract 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.440 at the time, and I thought I was getting a 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.800 bit stale and lost a lot of motivation. Couldn't really 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.520 see myself walking through those doors every day because of 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.520 what was happening. All those meetings we went through all 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.000 the sadness, I felt like I needed a fresh start. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.560 So when I left and all the things that have 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.880 happened since, I try not to look back with it 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.320 with anger because it's really it's been a beneficial thing 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.480 for me. As I said, I had a good time 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.720 in that year off and going to the Melbourne Football 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.840 Club was definitely one of the best things that's happened 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.160 to me. So things happen in life, and I feel 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.400 like that happened for a reason. I felt that's just 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.000 one of them. Wasn't fun at the time, it was 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.000 what was going on, but it's created a lot of 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:47.200 good things in my life. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.800 I love that you spoke about your family earlier. How 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.200 hard was it on them going through all of this 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.960 and seeing someone they love and care about not being 0:16:59.000 --> 0:16:59.960 able to be at their best. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.880 Yeah, it's fun. It was more, you know. 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.919 My brother was the one that was like, you know, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.080 this is this is bullshit. You know. 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:10.960 I was just like, yeah, I know, we'll get through 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.080 it kind of thing. Mum and Dad. 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.600 I think they asked questions and they didn't really take 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.320 They thought it was fine. You know, I wasn't grown 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.119 a third tail or anything. Whatever happened or so as 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.639 long as my health was fine, they were fine. And 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.920 I think, yeah, they capes with it pretty well. There's 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.600 a lot of younger players and their families, you know, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:32.840 they were a bit more stressful with my family. Were 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.800 My family pretty easy going, lars a characters. So I 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.200 just was telling him everything was fine, and they dealt 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:39.840 with it pretty well. 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:43.880 You mentioned your brother. There is that Jeff who's annoyed 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:44.600 on your behalf. 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.560 Yeah. Always, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.200 if anything happens to his little brother, who would Yeah, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.960 he'd get pretty dirty. So he was. He was just 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.439 pissed off. He couldn't watch me for another year. And 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.480 as my family were they you know, and my family 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.440 are no different to anyone else's. Our families lived through 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.160 us because playing footage gives them so much pride and excitement. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.119 And that was probably the one thing that hurt me 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.679 the most, that that was taken away from them, Not 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.879 so much me, but taken away from my friends and 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.760 family that they can't watch someone they love play, you know, 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.520 AFL footage on the MCG in front of big crowds 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:24.320 or anything like that. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.600 It's so interesting that you say that because so many 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.400 people say, you know, if you do what you love, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.440 you never work a day in your life. But also 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.879 what I've come to learn is if that gets taken 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.520 away from you, everything you love gets taken away from 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.240 you at the same time, and then you have this 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.840 resentment towards the thing that you love as well. Is 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.560 that kind of how you felt? Yeah? 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:42.080 Spot on. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.600 I mean it's never been articulated a lot of that 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.720 to me, and but it is. It's so true. You 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.639 do love playing footy Like I've lived my life to 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.960 get to where I was or where I am, and 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.760 it got taken away. And there was times where I 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.639 love footy. I didn't watch footy that whole year, you know, 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.600 I just couldn't watch the finals. I couldn't didn't watch 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.560 many games. I wasn't allowed to go to any games, 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.200 and yeah, I wasn't really too interested either. So yeah, 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:14.359 it's it's pretty spot on. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:18.920 Your lovely wife bringing us a word. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.440 Thank you so much. That's sparkling water. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.760 Want to thank you. It's nice bag, by the way, 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:36.320 that's cute. Did you ever think about walking away for good? 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:38.480 Nah? 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.719 No, not during that time. No, it was in my 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.040 MIAs of what else am I going to do. 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.960 I was allowed to footy, and I still felt like 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.760 I had a lot to give, but there was you know, 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.480 I had a I had a pretty badly nagging knee 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.399 injury at the time. Tender artists where a few of them. 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.199 You ask a few of the boys, all of them 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.239