1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Time passes whether you think about how you're spending it 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: or not, and so it's very easy to spend time mindlessly. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: And so I find that the best way to make 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: sure that we are spending time intentionally is to think 5 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: about what we want to do in any given unit 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: of time before we're actually in it. 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 2: And so, since we live lives in weeks, the one. 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: Hundred and sixty eight hours we talked about earlier, we 9 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: want to think through our weeks before we're in them. 10 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 11 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 3: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 3: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbat. I'm an 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 3: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 14 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 3: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. Before 15 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 3: I introduce today's guest, I wanted to do a shout 16 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: out to all the wonderful people who have taken the 17 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: time to leave a review for How I Work. I want 18 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: to say it can sometimes be a bit lonely doing 19 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 3: a podcast, just me in my studio, walking into a microphone, 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 3: and it is so awesome to get feedback that what 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: I'm spending a lot of my time on actually matters 22 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 3: to people and is making a difference to people's days. 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 3: So I wanted to read out a couple of reviews 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 3: and say thanks, and I might do this again in 25 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 3: future episodes, I think as well. So this first one 26 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 3: is from Joey Palms, and Joey wrote, the amount of 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: changes I've made in the way I work as been 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 3: crazy after listening to how I work. Keep them coming 29 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 3: amount that. Thank you so much, Joey, that is absolutely 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: awesome to hear. And just one other one I thought 31 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: i'd read out. This is from Jillian two six h 32 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: three and Jillian wrote, I look forward to every new 33 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: episode and enjoy the recaps in January because it reminds 34 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: me of particular things to stay on top of. There 35 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: hasn't been one episode where I haven't learned something new. 36 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: Keep them coming, So thank you, Jillian. That is super generous, 37 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: and thank you to everyone. There have been so many 38 00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 3: people leaving reviews and I just adore you all and 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 3: love reading them through. Anyone that feels the urge to 40 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: leave one after today's show, please do and I might 41 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 3: read it out on a future episode. And you know, 42 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 3: if you are enjoying how I work. Yes, reviewing is 43 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 3: a lovely way to show it, and thank you for 44 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 3: all the people that email me directly. That's also really 45 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: nice too. So let's get down to business now. My 46 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 3: guest today is Laura Vandercamp. Laura is a global expert 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 3: on time management and helps people spend more time on 48 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 3: what matters and less on what doesn't. She's the author 49 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: of a bunch of best selling books, ranging from Off 50 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: the Clock one hundred and sixty eight Hours, What the 51 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: Most Successful People Do Before Breakfast, and her latest book 52 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: is Juliette School of Possibilities, which I read a few 53 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: days ago and I loved it. Her work has appeared 54 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Fortune, 55 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 3: and Fast Company, and her ted talk How to Gain 56 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: Control of Your Free Time, has been viewed more than 57 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 3: five million times. So I've followed Laura's work for several years, 58 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: and I've always felt that she takes a really novel 59 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 3: view of the whole time management concept. So I think 60 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: that you'll find this a particularly practical interview as Laura 61 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 3: goes through a bunch of different strategies that she uses 62 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: and also recommends to make the most of not only 63 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: her work time but also her leisure time. So on 64 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 3: that note, over to Laura to hear about how she works. Hi, Laura, 65 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 3: welcome to the show. 66 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 67 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 3: I want to get started with talking about tracking things 68 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: because I've read that you track three things, time, jogs, 69 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: and books, and I want to start with time. And 70 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: can you tell me about the magic number one hundred 71 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: and sixty eight. 72 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: Yes, So there are one hundred and sixty eight hours 73 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: in a week. That is twenty four times seven. You know, 74 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: people say twenty four to seven all the time, but 75 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: surprisingly few people. 76 00:03:58,160 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: Multiply it through. 77 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: I think this is a better way to think about 78 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: time than just twenty four hours, because you know, a 79 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: week is the cycle of life as we actually live it. 80 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: So I track my time, and I track it on 81 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty eight hour spreadsheets. It's actually half 82 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: hour blocks, so three hundred and thirty six cells representing 83 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: a one hundred and sixty eight hour week. I encourage 84 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: everyone else to try tracking a week. I've actually been 85 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: doing this for four years now, which I don't mean 86 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: anyone else states to do. But you could track for 87 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: a week and you learned all kinds of useful stuff 88 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: about your life. You know, when you work, when you 89 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: don't work, when you sleep, when you don't sleep, but 90 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: what you do with your family, what you do when 91 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: you have free time, what you do when you haven't 92 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: noticed you're going to have free time, and so it 93 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: kind of sneaks up on you. These are all useful 94 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: things to know about your life. So, yeah, time tracking. 95 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: What have been the biggest learnings for you for tracking 96 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: your time for four years? 97 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: Well, I had a couple of key insights, you know. 98 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: The one was that I work less than I think 99 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: I do. And this happens to a lot of people. Actually, 100 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: we sort of have in our minds our longest weeks 101 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: as typical. So if somebody asks you, well, what's a 102 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: typical day, what's a typical week, you describe a week 103 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: where you are kind of at work a lot, which 104 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: happens sometimes, but it doesn't happen every week. And I 105 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: found that out when I started tracking a lot of 106 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: my time that you know, I had been telling people 107 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: I worked fifty hours a week, and it turned out 108 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: I worked, on average a lot closer to forty hours 109 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: a week, which is a different number than fifty turns out. 110 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: But you know, there are smaller insights too which were 111 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: interesting to me. One is that I spend a lot 112 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: more time in the car than I thought I did 113 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: because I work out of a home office, so I 114 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: don't have a daily commute, and for a lot of people, 115 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: their daily commute is most of the time they spend 116 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: in the car. And since I didn't have that in 117 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: my mind, I was. 118 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 2: Never in the car. But that's not true. 119 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: I do a lot of short trips here and there 120 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: or you know, someone randomly. It's not an ever given 121 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: day thing, but here and there, And you know, I 122 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: wound up spending on average, more than an hour a 123 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: day in the car. And once I realized that, I 124 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: was like, wow, I should probably be a little bit 125 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: more mindful of what I'm doing in this time than 126 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: just listening to Top forty radio, given that I don't 127 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: even like Top forty radio, and yet wind up spending 128 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: an hour of my day listening to it. I guess 129 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: that's how I know all the Taylor Swift songs. 130 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, there's some great insights to come by. And 131 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 3: now jokes or exercise is another thing that you track. 132 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 3: And I've heard you say that you exercise every day, 133 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: and I'd love to understand, like, why what makes you 134 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: exercise every day? Why did that start? 135 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: Well, certainly, if you're exercising four or five times a week, 136 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: that is perfectly fine, there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 137 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: That is much better than the average person exercising. 138 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: Like no times a week, So you should not feel 139 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: bad about about. 140 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: That at all. 141 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: For me, I decided to try a running streets. So 142 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: it's not even that I'm exercising every day, specifically that 143 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: I've committed to running at least a mile every single day, 144 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: And the reason is partly I love to run. I 145 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: find it does wonderful things for my mood. I don't 146 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: know how much it does for other things. I mean, 147 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, anyone will tell you exercise is great, but 148 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily how people are going to lose weight 149 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: or something like that. But it makes me feel much 150 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: better and feel more energetic, and so I decided I 151 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: wanted to try to do it every single day, and 152 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: it's really changed the conversation I have with myself. The 153 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: conversation is no longer am I going to run today? 154 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: Which is somewhat of this motivational vague question I don't 155 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: know am I going to run today? Like debate that 156 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: up and down all over the place. But now I 157 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: ask the question when am I going to run today? 158 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: And when am I going to run today? Is a 159 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: very different question. That's just one of logistics. And it 160 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: turns out, you know, you can pretty much find a 161 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: spot any given day to run at least a mile, 162 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: which only takes about ten minutes. 163 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: Usually I run more than that, but that's all I 164 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: have to do. So I don't know. 165 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: I track that because I want to track that. I 166 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: do it every single day and how far I go, 167 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: and you know, it's so far, so good. I probably 168 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: won't keep with it forever. I assume at some point 169 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,559 Speaker 1: I may get injured and then I'll have to stop. 170 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: But you know, been at it for eight hundred plus 171 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: days now, so so far, so good. 172 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: Wow, that's amazing. I remember I recently read countywports new 173 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: book Digital Minimalism, and he talks about this runners club 174 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: where there are some runners in the world that have 175 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: a streak of like forty years or something like that. 176 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: Have you heard about this concept? 177 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: I certainly do know that there are people who have 178 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: run every day for forty years. 179 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: And actually, you know I have. 180 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: My father has a different sort of streak. He's been 181 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: a professor of Old Testament Hebrew scriptures, and he wanted 182 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: to have more language reading in his life. So in 183 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven he began reading Hebrew for thirty minutes 184 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: every day, and he has read Hebrew every single day 185 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy seven. So you would say there's a 186 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: bit of a family orientation this way. 187 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 3: Oh, that's awesome. And then I've read on your blog 188 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: I think you're writing about it in January that you 189 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 3: were trying to develop a strength training habit, and I 190 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: was wondering if you could talk about that, because I 191 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: think it can be hard to develop a new habit 192 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: and I'd love to know, like what how you did 193 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 3: that in your life and what worked for you in 194 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: doing that. 195 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean developing a habit is hard. 196 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: And here I write about this and speak about this, 197 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: and so you'd think I'd have some brilliant insight. 198 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: And that's not necessarily the case. 199 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: I had been saying for years I would like to 200 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: do more strength training. I mean, partly I think it'd 201 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: be make me a better runner. I think it's just 202 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, generally good as we get older, you know, 203 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: want to make sure we maintain muscle mass and all 204 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: that good stuff. So I was like, well, how I'm 205 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: I going to fit this into my life? Where am 206 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: I going to put it? And you know, I'd tried 207 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: here and there and nothing really stuck. At the same time, 208 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: I had all so noticed from tracking my time that 209 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: I have this small chunk of time in the morning 210 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: on weekdays that. 211 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: Is very difficult to use well. 212 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: So usually I have either brought my middle schooler in 213 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: the carpool to his middle school and I'm back by 214 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: eight ten, or I've been having breakfast with some of 215 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: my younger children and have left the table by about 216 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: eight ten. 217 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: I can go into my office. 218 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: I have a nanny who comes and helps with the kids, 219 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: and so you know, she's with the kids eight ten, 220 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: I'm in my office. However, I also help get my 221 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: middle two kids out to the bus at eight twenty five, 222 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: so I've got fifteen minutes there. And I can never 223 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: use it for anything useful, like it's good morning time. 224 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: But I was always just deleting emails pretty much. 225 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: And then I said, wait a minute, I could combine 226 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: these two things, like that I have this chunk of 227 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: time and that I want to do strength training. 228 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: This would be a perfect time. 229 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: So I have a kettlebell and resistance bands in my office, 230 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: walk into my office at eight ten, start doing stuff 231 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: with the kettlebells and the resistance band, do some plank poses, 232 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: and then eight twenty five, get the kids out to 233 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: the bus. And so I've actually stuck with it for 234 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: about a month now, and it's just a perfect cue. 235 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: Like I know when I walk into my office that's 236 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: the time to do it, and I know I'm not 237 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: doing anything else, so it's not taking time away from 238 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: some other high value activity. I'm not trying to find 239 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: some time the rest of my schedule. This is when 240 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: I do it, And so it's actually been relatively easy 241 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: to stick with. 242 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 3: I love that idea of a sort of finding that 243 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: regular dead time that you have and thinking about how 244 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: you can feel that constructively. That's really cool. 245 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: And I know what I like. 246 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: I know like like I feel like when I read 247 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: your work, and I've been a fan of your work 248 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 3: for a few years, like it feels like you kind 249 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: of live this perfectly time optimized life. Like I'm curious 250 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 3: as to what are your vices and unhelpful behaviors that 251 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 3: you have found had to break. 252 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: I guess, well, I definitely do not live a perfectly 253 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: time optimized life. I'm not even on time to everything 254 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: in case anyone is wondering, And you. 255 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: Know, I calling encouraging to hear. 256 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'm calling in to calls five minutes 257 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: late and everyone has to pause and like have a 258 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: moment to just laugh about it. But you know, so 259 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: there are certain things that I fall into traps over 260 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: and over again, and they're common traps, so it's good 261 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: to know what they are. I guess that is the 262 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: one upside of studying this is I tend to see them. 263 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I stop doing them, but I'm at 264 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: least aware of them. One is that if I have 265 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: time where I don't have a lot of energy and 266 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: I have I don't have to do anything, what do 267 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: I do at that time? I mean, it is leisure time, right, 268 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: But if you don't have a whole lot of energy, 269 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: you're not going to suddenly go, you know, for a 270 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: run or come up with some you know, fun family activity. 271 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: I guess just not in the mood for that sort 272 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: of thing. And so Inevitably I wind up like surfing 273 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: the web. I'm on Twitter, I'm scrolling around Instagram. And 274 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: these things are fun for about three minutes. They're not 275 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: fun for more than three minutes, and yet I will 276 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: spend a lot more than three minutes doing them. So 277 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: I've tried to get better about king show that I 278 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: have books to read, for instance, that I have, you know, 279 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: ebooks on my phone. So if I'm picking up the 280 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: phone to scroll around after three minutes on Instagram, I 281 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: can be like, hey, you don't have to keep doing this. 282 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: You have a book you could go read that is 283 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: also on your phone and maybe get a little bit 284 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: of reading time in doing that. 285 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: So that tends to be the sort. 286 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: Of thing where or like we talked about with the car, 287 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: you know that you don't know this time exists, and 288 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: so you don't think about what to do with it, 289 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: But then once you look at it and track it, 290 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: you can see that it adds up. 291 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:30,599 Speaker 2: And one of the reasons. 292 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: I've got into listening to podcasts is that it's a 293 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: perfect thing to do in short spurts in the car. 294 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: I like that, and I imagine that the time tracking 295 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 3: would absolutely help on that just kind of being more conscious. 296 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: I guess around how we used time, as you said, 297 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 3: the awareness piece and something else I was curious about. 298 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: Obviously HBI did this big spread about how about time recently. 299 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: I think it was maybe like a couple of issues 300 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 3: ago and how And I think what we've known from 301 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: research for a while is that we we are happier 302 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: when we spend my on experiences rather than products. And 303 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 3: then I was curious how you feel about, you know, 304 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 3: using money to buy time, like something that I recently 305 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: started doing in my own life, and this brings me 306 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: no end of happiness. Is that I realized that every Sunday, 307 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 3: my family and I would go to the South Melbourne markets. 308 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: We would stuck up on a whole bunch of fruit 309 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: and vegetables, and then I would spend probably two or 310 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 3: three hours in the kitchen cutting vegetables, which is a 311 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: mind numbingly boring task. And I thought, I'm going to 312 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: find someone on air task Out, which I think is 313 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: like task grab It in America, who can cut vegetables 314 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 3: in my home for two hours every Sunday. And I 315 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 3: found this person and I pay them fifty dollars on Sunday, 316 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 3: which is you know, the cost of going out in 317 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: a cafe for lunch. And this brings me no end 318 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 3: of happiness. And I'm wondering, like, I'd love to know 319 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: in your own life, how how are you spending money on. 320 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: I guess creating more time for yourself or doing better 321 00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: things with your time. 322 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: Now, that's a really smart idea, and I love that 323 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: it just occurred to you to do that instead of 324 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: sitting there saying, oh, well, I could maybe just stop 325 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: buying the fruits and vegetables that part bought you toy 326 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: that you say, like, I'm just going to pay someone 327 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: else to do the processing work. 328 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 2: It's the same thing you know in supermarkets. 329 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: I encourage people like if you know what happens, people 330 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: buy fruits and vegetables and then don't eat them, like 331 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: they throw them away. 332 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: Because they never got around the cutting them. 333 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: So you know, buy it pre cut, like it costs 334 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: a little bit more, but like, please just buy it 335 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: pre cut, like then you'll actually eat it, Whereas if 336 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: you throw it away, you've wasted all your money. So 337 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: that's that's not a good idea either. Yeah, I get 338 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff delivered. I mean I know that 339 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: there are people people have strong feelings about Amazon, for instance, 340 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: but the Amazon Prime where we get free two day 341 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: shipping for a certain annual fee, we use that so 342 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: much because there's just things that it may It makes 343 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: no sense to get in the car and spend two 344 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: hours on your weekend driving to go get say a 345 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: birthday present for a kid's friend. Right, we just get 346 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: on my phone, like the kid, look through a bunch 347 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: of stuff so that I want to give that. 348 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: To my friend. Okay, we ordered it, it shows up in 349 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: two days. Beautiful. I didn't have to get in the 350 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: car and go buy it. 351 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: So that's definitely something to spend time on. I'd also encourage, 352 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, parents in particular. We often think of childcare 353 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: as being associated with work, and clearly, you know, if 354 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: you and your partner, if you have one, both work, 355 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: you need childcare for your young kids while you're doing that. 356 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: But sometimes it can contribute to your life in other ways, 357 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: in ways that you can use money to sort of 358 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: buy happiness. 359 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: One thing we've done. 360 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: Our kids are getting a little bit older now, but 361 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: when they were, we had babies and toddlers and yet 362 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: still had older children as well. Because I have four 363 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: of them, you know, my husband and I might split 364 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: going to a soccer game and a wrestling meet or something. 365 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: Who has to take the baby and the toddler with 366 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: them while we can split it and then we're both 367 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: chasing people on the sidelines, or you know, one person 368 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: could take take the pain and have both of them 369 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: and the other parent can watch it. So then we 370 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: figured out, well, you can also pay a babysitter to 371 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: come stay with like the little ones and you know, 372 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: build block towers with them while you both go to 373 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: a sporting event and actually able to watch your kid 374 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: and not completely miss their goal when they score one. 375 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: So you know, it's not even about outsourcing the care 376 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: of the kids. It's like outsourcing some of the care 377 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: of the kids so that you can actually focus on 378 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: the other ones and have this more pleasant experience. So 379 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: I encourage parents to think about that too. 380 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, good advice. And now speaking of Amazon and home delivery, 381 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 3: Amazon got in just in the nick of time in 382 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 3: terms of delivering Juliet School of Possibilities, your new book 383 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: to my house. So I literally got it yesterday and 384 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 3: read it yesterday and loved it, and I wanted to 385 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 3: ask where the idea came from, and I think just 386 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: in general, where ideas generally come to you, And I 387 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 3: certainly you know, won't spoil where Riley, the protagonist in 388 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: your new book gets her kind of breakthrough idea. But 389 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 3: how did the idea of writing a time management book 390 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 3: that's actually a novella just come to your head? 391 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: Well, ideas seldom spring into heads fully formed. 392 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 2: I would say this. 393 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: You know, for all the stories people love about Eureka moments, 394 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: I think Eureka moments are incredibly rare. There may be 395 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: one Eureka moment that is built on a lot of 396 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: other things. 397 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: True. 398 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: So what had happened is that I've written several nonfiction 399 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: time management books and have published them all through Penguin 400 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: Random House and their particular business imprint, which is Portfolio 401 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: in the US. And at one point in the summer 402 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen, my editor on another book wrote me 403 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: and said, Hey, we're looking to commission some more business fables. 404 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: And these are books along the lines of five dysfunctions 405 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: of a team, the One Minute Manager, or the Go 406 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Giver series. There's a lot of sort of famous business 407 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: books that are stories. Are you interested in potentially writing one? 408 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: And I was like, I love reading fiction. I have 409 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: actually done a lot of sort of fiction writing as 410 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: a hobby the side, And in fact, I had been 411 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: working on a manuscript that I had done in different 412 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: versions that was about some characters that I realized I 413 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: could repurpose for the purposes of a time management novella. 414 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: So in fact, I already had my character of Juliet 415 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: and Riley and a Danish by guy and some other 416 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: people and skip. But all these characters who then wind 417 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: up appearing in this time management novella actually existed in 418 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: other material that was not going anywhere, but was there, right, 419 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: I had written some stuff before, so I repurposed this 420 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: and turned it into a time management fable. 421 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean. 422 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: It's the story of Riley, who is this ambitious consultant 423 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: whose life is falling apart on all dimensions personally and professional, 424 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: and then she gets roped into going to a weekend 425 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: retreat at this mysterious place called Juliette School of Possibilities, 426 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: where she meets Juliette, who is this incredibly successful yet 427 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: incredibly calm person who shows her potential visions for her 428 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: future based on different. 429 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 2: Choices she might make. 430 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a lot of fun to write 431 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: and hopefully fun to read too. 432 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I loved it and I feel like it 433 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 3: will it will stick with me for a long time after. 434 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 3: I guess a lot of traditional non featuring books on 435 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 3: productivity and time management where it's kind of lesson after lesson, 436 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 3: And I guess more generally, where where do you find 437 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 3: sort of your ideas and inspiration come from. Do you 438 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 3: kind of have go to packs or places that you'll 439 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 3: do or things that you will do to I guess 440 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: find new ideas because I feel like you're quite prolific 441 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 3: in your writing, like you produce so many ideas and 442 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 3: new work. 443 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: Well, I think it feeds on itself, like you produce 444 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: more ideas the more you write and the more you 445 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: try to create stuff. You know, Certainly, running a blog 446 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: for all these years, it no longer seems crazy to me, 447 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: like come up with four things to write about each week. 448 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, you know, I just I think in 449 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: terms of, like, yeah, here's what I'm going to writ 450 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: about today, Here's what I'll write about tomorrow. That'd be 451 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: an interesting topic to write about. Maybe can look into that, 452 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, the same thing with podcasts and book ideas too, 453 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: I will say, you know, I do try to read 454 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: a lot. I'm always on the alert for interesting ideas. 455 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: I read widely and read different things, and like to 456 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: sort of follow trails of reading wherever it might go. 457 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: So if I'm reading a book and another book is 458 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: mentioned in that book, I might read that book and 459 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: might read other things by that author. Then I also 460 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: have one little hack for really piecing ideas together, which 461 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: is that if I'm stumped on something or you know, 462 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: not feeling very productive, I will just stop what I'm 463 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: doing go for a run. And I know this doesn't 464 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: work in everyone's life, like you can't maybe just run 465 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: out of your office and go for a run if 466 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: you're in the middle of a meeting where you're not 467 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: sure what you should be saying. But for me, it works, 468 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: and I just go out and I go for a run, 469 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: and inevitably I come up with something. The things that 470 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: I hadn't quite figured out how I was going to 471 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: put them together will piece themselves together in my brain, 472 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: and then I am able to come back and execute 473 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: on that. 474 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 3: I feel like movement comes up a lot when I 475 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: ask guests this. I remember I had Nancy Duyte on 476 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 3: quite a while ago, and she talked about how she 477 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 3: would go for a hike that was her kind of 478 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 3: go to thing when she was stuck on something, and 479 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 3: inevitably the hike would give her fresh thinking. So yes, 480 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 3: I love that I personally always where wherever possible, sneakers 481 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 3: to the office where I do want to go out 482 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 3: and just move and get some inspiration. And something else 483 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 3: that I really like of yours is your idea of 484 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: having a weekly planning ritual on Fridays, And I was 485 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 3: wondering if you could talk a little bit about that, 486 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 3: and also what made you start doing that for yourself. 487 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: So I think that since time is easily we're backing 488 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: up on this, time passes whether you think about how 489 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: you're spending it or not, and so it's very easy 490 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: to spend time mindlessly. And so I find that the 491 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: best way to make sure that we are spending time 492 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: intentionally is to think about what we want to do 493 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: in any given unit of time before we're actually in it. 494 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: And so, since we live lives in weeks the one 495 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: hundred and. 496 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: Sixty eight hours we talked about earlier, we want to 497 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: think through our weeks before we're in them. So Friday 498 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: afternoon is a really good time to think about the 499 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: upcoming week. And the reason it's such a good time 500 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: to think about the upcoming week is that you know 501 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: you're not doing much else on Friday afternoon. Friday afternoon 502 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: tends to be a time most people are sliding into 503 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: the weekend. Like it's really hard to start anything new 504 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: at say three pm on Friday, and so you wind 505 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: up wasting a lot of time as you're waiting until 506 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: you know quitting time. So instead, take a few minutes 507 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: to plan the week ahead. And I suggest making yourself 508 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: a short three category priority list for the next week. 509 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: Three categories career, relationships, self. And the reason to make 510 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: a three category list is that it reminds you to 511 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: put something in all three categories. It's very difficult to 512 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: make a three category list and then leave a category blanket, 513 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: Like our brains just don't work that way. We're going 514 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: to put something in each of them once you've made 515 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: a three category list, And so that right there, I 516 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: can nudge you to have a more balanced life. 517 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: But you know, just a. 518 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: Short list, a couple items in each, look at the 519 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: next week, see where they can go, and just like that, 520 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: you're probably putting more important stuff into your life and 521 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: you know you've at least got a fighting shot at 522 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: having it happen. 523 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And I like the fact that it's not 524 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 3: all career focused and something else. I know that you 525 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 3: write not just about how to manage your time at work, 526 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: but also manage your time outside of work, like leisure 527 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 3: time and family time. And I want to know, like, 528 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: what are the tricks to planning a great weekend? Because again, 529 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 3: I feel like for many of us, not much conscious 530 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: thought can go into that other than just reacting to 531 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: different events that are on. So how do you plan 532 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: a great weekend? 533 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: Well, first, you plan a great weekend by planning your weekend. 534 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: And I think this little mindset shift here, you know, 535 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: I know some people just hate the whole idea. They're like, 536 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm so busy all week I want to get to 537 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: the weekend and do nothing. And that's fine, except you 538 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: won't do nothing. You'll like, do something, But is that 539 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: something as rejuvenating as it would be if you'd put 540 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: a tiny bit of thought into it. We'll probably not, 541 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: like And you know, you're not going to get together 542 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 1: randomly with friends usually like you actually need to they're 543 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: busy too, you need to set up time with them. 544 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: If you have kids, like your babysitter isn't going to 545 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: randomly show up at a time that you'd wish to 546 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: see her, like you need to plan for that to happen. 547 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: Or if you're getting together with friends who have children, 548 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: they probably can't just pop out and leave, like they 549 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: have to find childcare coverage, or they have to figure 550 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: out something they can do with the kids as well. 551 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: So you know, there's just all or you know, if 552 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: you need tickets for something, reservations for something like go 553 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: sit outside that top restaurant for two and a half 554 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: hours hoping they have a table, or you could have 555 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: called ahead and then you could get them, So you know, 556 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: it's it's stuff like that. But and before people like 557 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: but I, you know, busy all week, I can't I 558 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: don't want to plan. 559 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: I don't want to look at account. 560 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about planning every minute, like you don't 561 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: have to plan every fifteen minutes. You are not sending 562 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: out like invite calendar invitations for dinner like this is 563 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: not what I mean. What I mean is thinking of 564 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: like three things that you would like to do over 565 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: the weekend that would add to your energy levels. 566 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be complicated. 567 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: But maybe it's that you want to go for a 568 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: bike ride with a friend, you want to go out 569 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: to dinner with your spouse, you want to go to 570 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: worship services, or you want to volunteer somewhere like those 571 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: are all great things, Okay, figure out where they happen, 572 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: figure out what logistics need to happen, and then you 573 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: do those things and then you have a great weekend 574 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: and then you hit Monday like yay, I'm ready to go. 575 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: And this is particularly important if you do have a 576 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: lot of moving parts in your weekend. I know a 577 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: lot of people with young children can wind up having 578 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: weekends that are kind of a mess of children's activities 579 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: and birthday parties and chores and errands, and you know, 580 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: you can start to feel like, oh, I have no 581 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: fun in my life, and then you get into this 582 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: whole martyrdom complex and it's just a bad cycle. So 583 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: if you think about it ahead of time, then you 584 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: might say like, well, yes, I've got you know, three 585 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: kid activities on Saturday. But if I call my friend 586 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: and we both talk to our spouses about you know, 587 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: being the ones to take the morning, like we could 588 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: go for a two hour bike ride in the morning 589 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: before we deal with all the birthday parties and such. 590 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: But if you sort of wait till the middle of 591 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: the day and be like, oh, I really wish I 592 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: could have gone on a bike ride with my friend, 593 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: now I just feel bad, like that's not serving anyone. 594 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: If you think about it ahead of time, then you 595 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: can make these things happen. 596 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 3: And so really the tricks that think about three main 597 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 3: things that you want to do on the weekend. And 598 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 3: is that what you refer to as anchor events. I 599 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 3: think I've heard you speak about sort of anchor events. 600 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so these are certain things that you've assigned 601 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: a relatively. 602 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 2: Specific time too. 603 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't have to be a perfect but 604 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, this is roughly when you're planning on doing 605 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: these things and then you have something to look forward to. 606 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: And it turns out that anticipation actually is a big 607 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: part of our happiness associated with any event. Like if 608 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: you've got reservations at your favorite restaurant, it's going to 609 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: be a great meal, but like you're going to be 610 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: done with that meal in two hours. It can only 611 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: last so long whereas if you know you have it 612 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: coming up, like you've made the reservation on Tuesday, well 613 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: you can think about it all the way till Saturday, 614 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: Like you get some of the pleasure that you're going 615 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: to have in the moment of eating there, only it's 616 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: stretched out because you've been having some of that fun 617 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: since Tuesday, as opposed to just the two hours in 618 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: the restaurant. 619 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: That's such a good point. I remember I read research 620 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 3: a little while ago that said we actually get more 621 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 3: satisfaction from holidays in the anticipation, So it makes good 622 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 3: sense to plan holidays several months out because you'll increase 623 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 3: the total amount of happiness they deliver us. So certainly 624 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 3: speaks to that. 625 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: Well, it's also sorry, I was just going to say, 626 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: it also speaks to the reality of human nature, which 627 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: is that we are never blissful in the moment of 628 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: experiencing something. 629 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: You know. 630 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: It's the reality of even if you're at your favorite restaurant, 631 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: you can be like, yeah, these people at the table 632 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: next to me are a little loud, or I have 633 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom. 634 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: Should I wait? Do that between this course or the other? 635 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: You know, we're we're never perfectly happy, but you can 636 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: be in the anticipation. So that's why more and more 637 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: of the happiness comes beforehand. 638 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And what else can we do? I guess 639 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: to like maximize our leisure time, like particularly in weak nights, 640 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 3: you know, after work, when maybe we do come home 641 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 3: and all we want to do is collapse on the 642 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 3: couch in front of Netflix. Like what advice do you 643 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: have for other times where we're not at work? 644 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with having a night 645 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: watching Netflix. The problem is if it's all your nights 646 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: and you never do anything else, Like, whole years can 647 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: disappear into these memory sinkholes because you haven't done anything 648 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: worth remembering, and so your brain doesn't bother remembering it. 649 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: And when there's no memories, it's as if the time 650 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: did not exist, which is kind of. 651 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: A scary thought if you think about it. 652 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: Whereas if you do interesting things, memorable things, then you 653 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: do remember them, and then your brain bothers holding onto 654 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: the memory and time will seem more rich and full 655 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: and fast. So one thing you can do is, you know, 656 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: plan something ahead of time. Again, Like you know, what 657 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: happens is people get home, and once you've gotten home 658 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: and you're tired, Like, then you're not going to plan 659 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: something because you're tired, right, your brain doesn't have the 660 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: energy to do it. 661 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: Whereas if you, you know, on the week, on the. 662 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: Friday before you were planning your week and said, hey, actually, 663 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: Tuesday night, there is a concert in our park that's 664 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: near our house. I bet my family would have a 665 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: lot of fun going there. The kids could just you know, 666 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: play on the playground while the adults are listening to 667 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: the concert. Well, then you know, Tuesday night, you get 668 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: home from work and yeah, you may be tired, but 669 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, we know that thing that would 670 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: be really fun, and people are excited. We've talked about 671 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: it beforehand, and you know, the other people in my 672 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: family are thinking about it, so we've got that accountability 673 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: to go to it. 674 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: And then you. 675 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: Do, and you have a good time and you've done 676 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: something interesting and then you remember that evening. So thinking 677 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: about it ahead of time can can help quite a bit. 678 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: You can also make good choices within the sort of 679 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: low energy leisure time, So maybe me consciously choosing to 680 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: read for an hour before turning on Netflix. That way 681 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: you get both, whereas if you just turn on Netflix, 682 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: you'll probably not turn it off and start reading because 683 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: everything about these sorts of series is designed to keep 684 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: you watching, probably past the point where you. 685 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:17,959 Speaker 2: Should go to sleep. 686 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: So you know, whereas if you read for forty five 687 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: minutes an hour first, you'll still get some TV time, 688 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: but you'll also have some reading time too, and you'll 689 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: probably feel more fulfilled by doing that. 690 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 3: And look, speaking of reading time, I want to kind 691 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 3: of circle back to where we started around tracking and 692 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 3: books was the third category of things that you track. 693 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 3: Can you tell me about how your book tracking process works? 694 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 3: And also how many books did you read last year? 695 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: So I track books just in a notebook. 696 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, there are all sorts of fancy reading journals 697 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: out there, but you really don't need anything. 698 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: You can just use a notebook. 699 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: But I found that writing down the titles I had 700 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: read encouraged me to want to see the list grow, 701 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: Like I really like seeing oh i've read this, I've 702 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: read this, I've read this, and so you know, twenty seventeen, 703 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: in the beginning of the year, I began tracking which 704 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: books i'd read, and that year I read a ton. 705 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I read well over one hundred books, partly 706 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: because I hadn't been reading so much. I had been reading, 707 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: but I had been reading magazines and online stories. And 708 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: I tracked my time and I realized, Wow, I've spent 709 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: a lot of time reading, but I can't think of 710 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: much good books I've read during this time because I'm 711 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: reading a lot of crap. And so then I decided, well, 712 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: let me repurpose some of this time. Let me make 713 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: sure I have always, you know, good books around. Go 714 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: the library, go the books. Make sure I have stuff 715 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: I want to read. So I did, and I started 716 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: reading more books, and you know, built another accountability too, 717 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: Like I every month I write up a blog post 718 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: on what I've read, and people ask me where. 719 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: Was that post if I don't put it. 720 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: So I want to have a respectable looking reading list 721 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: for any given month, and so that nudges me to 722 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: do it too. So yeah, twenty seventeen, it was over 723 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: one hundredand it was fewer. 724 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 2: It's probably about seventy. 725 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of really long books on 726 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: that list, like Infinitees and Moby Dick and Ulysses, so 727 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: I think those count for like six books each. 728 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: So I'm going to get myself credit from. 729 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 3: What absolutely and look that's probably a more relevant question 730 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 3: for nonfiction books. But I feel like people that read 731 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 3: business books and other nonfiction books have different strategies for 732 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 3: how they actually read a book, as opposed to go 733 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 3: and cover to cover. And I was curious when when 734 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 3: you're reading a nonfiction book, but I guess, particularly a 735 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 3: business book that might be informing your writing or research, 736 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 3: how do you read that? If that's not a ridiculous 737 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: question to. 738 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: Ask, Well, I'm an old fashioned reader in the sense 739 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: that I like to start at the beginning and end 740 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: at the end, so I hadn't really pondered that there 741 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: was another way to do it. I do know that 742 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: some people use nonfiction more as reference. I try not 743 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: to read too many books where it's not about the 744 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: reading experience. And again, maybe I'm old fashioned that way, 745 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: but I prefer books that I enjoy reading. And I'm 746 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: really drawn to nonfiction writers who make it of good experience, 747 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: like who actually care about their craft and care about 748 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: the storytelling and care about the construction of their books. 749 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: And so if I'm reading that, I feel like I'd 750 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: be missing something if I was just, you know, looking 751 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: at the table of contents and reading one chapter in 752 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 1: the middle that I thought sounded interesting. 753 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 3: That's encouraging to hear. I think like with the volume 754 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 3: of books that you're reading and that you are just 755 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 3: going old school reading from beginning to end, that is 756 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 3: that is nice to know and that you can actually 757 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 3: fit in reading so many books, you know, despite having 758 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 3: a very very full life. And now I know that 759 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 3: we've only got a few minutes left and that children 760 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 3: are going to start arriving into your household very soon. 761 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 3: In the final couple of minutes that we've got left, 762 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 3: I'd love to know like some of your kind of 763 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 3: go to sources for inspiration and information, and you've mentioned 764 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 3: that you have. I'm a big podcast listener. You've got 765 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: a couple of podcasts yourself as well, which we might 766 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 3: talk about at the end. What like a handful of 767 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 3: podcasts that you listen to for inspirational that you just 768 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 3: absolutely love. Well. 769 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 1: One of my favorites is called what Should I Read Next? 770 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: So this is how I get a lot of reading recommendations. 771 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: And Bogel who her online handle is modern Missus Darcy. 772 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: You know the Jane Austin reference there, but she she 773 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: has a weekly podcast where they have a guest on 774 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: and the guest says what books they like and what 775 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: books they don't like, and then she gives you, you know, 776 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: four books you'll probably enjoy reading based on your tastes, 777 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: and so I can Usually I don't like all the 778 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: books she recommends like, but I can tell from the 779 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: way she talks about them whether I'm going to like 780 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: them or not, which is which is great for someone 781 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: like me who likes efficiency. 782 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I based on how. 783 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: She talked about that, I know I'm never going to 784 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: want to read that. 785 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 2: Book, and so I don't. 786 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: Whereas if I can tell it sounds intriguing, okay, I 787 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: probably will turn that out. 788 00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: So that's that's one of my favorites. 789 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 3: And how about books like out of out of the 790 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 3: you know, seventy five or so books that you read 791 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 3: last year, what are one or two standouts, you know, 792 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,359 Speaker 3: if that's possible to peak? 793 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, well, you know ones. I have this 794 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: interest in reading books by women in particular that were 795 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: written at times when women weren't writing that many books. 796 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 2: I guess. 797 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: So, I wait, I made my way through Middle March 798 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: precisely because I knew that this is you know. George 799 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: Elliott wrote this, you know, many many years ago, and 800 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: it was hard to get into at first, but I 801 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: got hooked and I kept reading through it, and so 802 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: it was a. 803 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 2: Very memorable book. 804 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: I had also read the year before, I read Kristin 805 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: Labyn's Daughter by Sigarette Unsett, who is one of the 806 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: few female Nobel Prize for Literature winners and basically no 807 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: one's ever heard of her. 808 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: But Kristin Labyn's Daughter is. 809 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: This Norwegian medieval novel and it's just this enchanting story. 810 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: So I highly recommend it, although I know that most 811 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: people will not read a eleven hundred page novel, but. 812 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 2: You might, so you know, I'll throw it. 813 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 3: Out there awesome and I shall definitely link to that 814 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 3: in the show notes. And final question, how can people 815 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 3: find out more about you? Your podcasts, your books? Where 816 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 3: should they go? What should they do? 817 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 2: So? 818 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: You can come visit my website which is Laura Vandercam 819 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: dot com. It's just my name and you can read 820 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: my blog post there. You can find out about my 821 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: two podcasts. I have one called Best of Both Worlds 822 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: that my friend Sarah Hartunger and I do. That's about 823 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: the intersection of work and family from the perspective of 824 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: people who really enjoy both. I also have a new 825 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: one that's called before Breakfast that's through the iHeartMedia network, 826 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: and we do a short daily every weekday I mean 827 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: productivity tip, so you know, you can listen to it 828 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,959 Speaker 1: in the morning and make it part of your morning 829 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: routine and get a little shot in the arm to 830 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: take you through the rest of the day. 831 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 3: And I think that's great. I was listening to that 832 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 3: a few days ago, and I think it's great. I 833 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 3: think listeners of how I work would absolutely love that. 834 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 3: Very quick hits of productivity advice. Well, Laura, we are 835 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 3: just on time. I imagine you're going to start hearing 836 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 3: all sorts of sounds in your house very soon. It 837 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 3: was just wonderful talking to you. I love your work 838 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 3: and please keep producing more of it. It's just fantastic. 839 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 840 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 3: So that is it for today's show. Thank you so 841 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 3: much for listening, And I hope you liked. Laura had 842 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 3: to say, I personally always get so many gems when 843 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 3: I read Laura's work or you know, having her on 844 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 3: the podcast. Just loved our conversation. So if you know 845 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 3: other people that might benefit from this chat. Why not 846 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 3: share this podcast episode with them or tell them out 847 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 3: how I work. That would be absolutely awesome. So that 848 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 3: is it for today's show, and I will see you 849 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 3: next time.