1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Well, if you're listening to the show yesterday, you would 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: have heard me read the crime stats for Alice Springs, 3 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: which saw an increase in house break ins forty point 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: sixty five percent and commercial break ins up eighty two 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: point one point one percent. They're astronomical numbers and very 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: frustrating for locals dealing with the issue of crime on 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: a daily basis. Now we know that those crime stats, 8 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: well they ended till December last year, but then over 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: that Christmas break, things certainly didn't seem to calm down. 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: In fact, if you listen to locals, they say that 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: it's it escalated. 12 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: Now. 13 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: The Member for Our Lun, Robin Lamley, raised this issue 14 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: in Parliament last week, asking the Chief Minister about the 15 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: cost of crime in Central Australia. He responded by saying 16 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: that they're growing the Ala Springs economy, growing the economy. 17 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the Independent Member 18 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: for Our Lun, Robin Lambley. 19 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Robin, Good morning Kap. 20 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: Now, Robin, I'm sure that you have seen those crime statistics. 21 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: Were you surprised by them? 22 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 3: I was? I mean and eighty two percent increase in 23 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: commercial breakings, that is just staggering. Not even I thought 24 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: we'd see figures like that. You can't make this stuff up. 25 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 3: It's just unbelievable. But it is consistent with what everyone's saying, 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: what everyone's experiencing in Alice Springs. We're not exaggerating. It's 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 3: not just perception. It is a reality. And these crime 28 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: statistics speak volumes really, and. 29 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: Robin, I mean, all you've got to do, like I 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: this morning, in preparing for having a chat with you, 31 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: how to look on the Action for Alice page and 32 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: can see you know, vision that people are sharing of 33 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: kids in their backyard, trying to get into their home, 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: trying to get into their cars. I've been told the stories, 35 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: I've spoken to the businesses. There's no doubt that this 36 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: is having an impact on the people of Alice Springs 37 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: in so many different ways. Now, it's something that you 38 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: actually asked the Chief Minister about. Will you ask him 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: about the cost of crime to Alice Springs? Last week 40 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: in Parliament He responded by saying that his government's working 41 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: on growing the economy. What's been the reaction from the 42 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: community to that? 43 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 3: Will people feel misunderstood by the Chief Minister. They feel 44 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 3: that he's out of touch, and a lot of people 45 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: are very very angry. This went around town very quickly. 46 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 3: Unlike most things that happen in Parliament, this got out 47 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 3: very very quickly in Alice Springs through Facebook and people 48 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: have reacted with a great deal of anger and this 49 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: belief that the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory could 50 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 3: stand in Parliament and not acknowledge the cost. And it 51 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily have to be financial costs. I mean, that's 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: the obvious part of the equation when you're talking about business. 53 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: You know, the psychological cost of this massive escalation in 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 3: crime and Alice Springs is enormous and cannot be underestimated either, Katie. 55 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 3: People really are at the end of their tenvor. They're 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: feeling quite traumatized by it. I know, you know, people 57 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: I've spoken to. I've spoken to a lot of women, 58 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: which isn't probably unusual being a female politician, and a 59 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 3: lot of women have told me just how emotionally upset 60 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: they are, how they're suffering from anxiety and they've never 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: suffered from anything like it before because of crime. 62 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: I'm not surprised, you know. 63 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: I'm reading in the NT News today that an Alla 64 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: springsman is going to spend more than a year behind 65 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: bars over a violent attack on an unknown woman walking 66 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: home from her swimming lesson. So this twenty five year 67 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: old bloke was sentenced in the Supreme Court earlier this 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: month after pleading guilty to wrestling with, kicking and biting 69 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: a fifty two year old woman in an attempt to 70 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: steal her backpack when she's walking home from swimming lessons. 71 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if that's not a big enough, you know, 72 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: incident to make people realize that there's a problem in 73 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: Alice Springs, I don't know what is. 74 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 3: And Katie, that is not an unusual type of story. 75 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 3: In fact, last week I heard that a nurse was 76 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 3: physically assaulted. These sorry, these things are happening all the time. 77 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 3: You also saw some footage of a little girl that 78 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 3: was assaulted on a bus. The whole thing was filmed. 79 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: You know, it was premeditated. It's like things that deteriorating 80 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: before our eyes. I just feel I feel almost a 81 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: sense of powerlessness. And I shouldn't be saying that as 82 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: a member of Parliament, but when you stand in Parliament 83 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: and asked the top of the pile, the Chief Minister, 84 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 3: what his response is to crime and as treasurer, what 85 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 3: the cost of crime is to a community, to the 86 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 3: economy of Alice Springs. And there's no acknowledgment. You really 87 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 3: have to scratch your head and start wondering what more 88 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: can you do. Look, I've put some written questions through 89 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 3: to the Chief Minister based on these latest horrific crime 90 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 3: stats this morning and we'll see what happens. But all 91 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 3: we can do is just keep talking about it and 92 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 3: hopefully sooner or later the government will respond. 93 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: And Robin, I know the Prime Minister was in Alice 94 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: Springs on Friday last week and did end up meeting 95 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: with the mayor, Matt Patterson. He acknowledged on the show 96 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: in an interview that I've done with him that there 97 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: is a problem in Alice Springs and changes need to happen. 98 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,239 Speaker 2: But was that acknowledgment enough. 99 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: Well, the federal government isn't really responsible for laura and 100 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: order in any part of Australia unless it gets to 101 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 3: a magnitude in which it's almost out of control, and 102 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: then you bring in the army and you bring in 103 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: the intervention like we saw in two thousand and seven. 104 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 3: You know, to ask the Prime Minister to intervene is 105 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: an extreme measure and perhaps we are at that at 106 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 3: the moment. I mean the Royal Commission into Juvenile Justice 107 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: and Child Protection that kicked off after the Four Corners 108 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 3: program in twenty sixteen. That was an extreme reaction to 109 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: what was shown on TV nationally. Perhaps we're at that 110 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 3: point again asking the Prime Minister to intervene and look 111 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 3: at just what is going on with law and order 112 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 3: in our springs. But right across the top end of 113 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: Northern Australia we are not alone when it comes to 114 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: places like Towns For people I talk to say, Townsfall 115 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 3: is actually worse than our springs if you can believe it. 116 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: And Broom and parts of the Kimberley they're having major 117 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: problems too. So there is a bit of a theme. 118 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: It's about the top end of Australia more than anywhere else. 119 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: It's about Aboriginal disadvantage and disengagement. It's about you know, 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: a Northern Australian context, I think, and if the Prime 121 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: Minister can help us out on that level, at that scale, 122 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 3: then that might be very very useful and maybe we 123 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 3: are We do need to press that emergency button, which 124 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: is probably what where we're culminator, it's culminating to that. 125 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: You know, we're reaching a climax. 126 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 2: So rob do you. 127 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: Reckon You're at the point, at the moment in aalys 128 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: where potentially the Prime Minister needs to hit that emergency 129 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: button and bring in the army. 130 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: I think we're getting very close to that. I think 131 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: people are holding off because they're waiting to exhaust all options. 132 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: I know that's how I feel. I mean the Northern 133 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: Territory Intervention, which is you know, the real name was 134 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 3: called the Northern Territory Emergency Response, which you know everyone 135 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 3: can think of problems that came with that, But that 136 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: was triggered by a report that Claire Martin commission into 137 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: the sexual abuse of Aboriginal children in remote parts of 138 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 3: the Northern Territory. That was back in two thousand and six, 139 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: I think it was two thousand and six, and that 140 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 3: triggered the intervention, the Northern Territory Emergency Response. I think 141 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: we're very close to needing something of that scale in 142 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: response to what we're seeing in Central Australia. 143 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: I really do, well, Robin. 144 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: I know there'll be some people listening who will be 145 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: thinking to themselves, oh, that's too far. 146 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: You know, we don't need to call the army in. 147 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: But what I can hear from you, and what I've 148 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: certainly heard from people who live in Alice Springs is 149 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: that you are at breaking point. 150 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 3: It may not be the army, but it's something. It's 151 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: a response of that scale, a response that will make 152 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: a difference, draw a line in the set and say, Okay, 153 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 3: that's enough, We're not putting up with this behavior anymore, Robin. 154 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: Are you concerned about how the community is going to 155 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: react as well when we learn the outcome of the 156 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: zach Rolf trial. 157 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think the whole of Alice Springs and Central 158 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 3: Australia is just sitting back, very nervous, nervously waiting to 159 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 3: see what the outcome of this will be, because either way, 160 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: there will be problems, and there will be consequences and 161 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: there'll be reactions. I think we're all dreading it because 162 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: there's no winners here. There'll be no winners, Robi. 163 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 2: Either way, what do you think could potentially happen? As in? 164 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: You know, when that's we don't know what it's going to, 165 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: which way it's going to go, or how it's going 166 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: to go. But within the community of Alice Springs. What 167 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: do you think may happen? 168 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 3: Well, I guess the obvious thing is if zach Rowle 169 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: is found not to be guilty, then I think it's 170 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 3: reasonable to expect that Aboriginal people, some Aboriginal people, obviously 171 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: people from Yundamu, the family of Coumen j Walker, will 172 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 3: react very strongly, and that we don't know what that 173 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: looks like. But I am comforted to know I have 174 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 3: heard unofficially that the police have been preparing for this 175 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: moment in time for a very long time, for probably 176 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: at least two years since it all came about, So 177 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: that is good news. I did ask that question of 178 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: the Chief the Police Commissioner in estimates in June last year, 179 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 3: and the Chief Minister and the Police Minister sorry, and 180 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: they refused to answer me. They refused to respond to 181 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: my question what preparations are in place because you know, 182 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 3: back then we thought that the trial was probably going 183 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: to come about it twelve months ago rather than now 184 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: it is just delayed and delayed. So I'm very I'm 185 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 3: reassured to know that the police are ready to respond 186 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: to whatever the reaction of the community will be. But 187 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: it's going to be an awkward, unpleasant time either way, 188 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: because people are so vested in invested in this well. 189 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: Robin Lamley, I always appreciate your time. 190 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: I know it's been a tough it's been tough going 191 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: for everybody in Ellie Springs. 192 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 2: I really appreciate you having a chat with me this morning. 193 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. That's always a pleasure to talk to you. 194 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: Thank you.