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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers mew.

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Speaker 2: Today on the Happy Families Podcast, we are answering two

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Speaker 2: troublesome questions for parents who would like to make their

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Speaker 2: families happier. Number one, we're going to take on the

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Speaker 2: issue of toddler's running away towards the road when you

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Speaker 2: go to the park, or to the shops or pretty

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Speaker 2: much anywhere. I don't know what it is. Two year

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Speaker 2: olds they see the road, they go for it. And

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Speaker 2: also the ongoing challenge of school refusal. We get so

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Speaker 2: many questions about this. We're going to talk about emotion

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Speaker 2: based school avoidance once again, this time for teenagers. If

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Speaker 2: you would like to submit a question, we answer your

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Speaker 2: questions every Tuesday on the podcast. Go to Happy Families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au, click on the podcast link and

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Speaker 2: then you push the record button to submit your questions.

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Speaker 2: It's that simple. So question number one.

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Speaker 1: Hey, my name is back and I'm from Sydney. Two

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Speaker 1: small girls, four months and just a little over two.

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Speaker 1: My two year old is just wonderful. She's bright and joyful.

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Speaker 1: She however, runs away. We have spoken about car safety

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Speaker 1: reenacted what to do around roads and explained to her

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Speaker 1: boundaries when we arrive at playgrounds, but a couple of

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Speaker 1: times at non fence playgrounds or at fence playgrounds without

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Speaker 1: gates just gaps in the fencing, I have needed to

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Speaker 1: ditch the pram and chase her to the edge of

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Speaker 1: the road or close enough for great discomfort. Other than

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Speaker 1: just not going where there's any room for escaping? What

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Speaker 1: can I do? How do I support her to be

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Speaker 1: safe in this situation and long term in other situations?

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your help.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Beck love the question, Thanks so much for submitting it,

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Speaker 2: and I really love the thoughtful way that you've put

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Speaker 2: this together. Also love how the four month old is

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Speaker 2: in the background trying to be part of the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Been there, done that. Okay, So you've explained, you've role played,

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Speaker 2: you've prepped, and your two year old is still running

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Speaker 2: toward the road. Running away is totally normal. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: It's also totally scary. And that's the big challenge here, right.

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Speaker 2: You know that it's not safe in some ways. Your

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Speaker 2: toddler does as well, but they really cognitively they have

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Speaker 2: no concept of what it means to really be unsafe,

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Speaker 2: probably because you've done a great job of keeping your

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Speaker 2: child safe, and so therefore they're interested in exploring. Like

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Speaker 2: I said, totally developmentally appropriate, totally scary. Historically, if we

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Speaker 2: look at the ancient record or even a couple of

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Speaker 2: centuries ago, this was a big challenge even then, and

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Speaker 2: so when parents had young children, they would swaddle them,

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Speaker 2: keep them wrapped up, because that way they couldn't go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Even then, sometimes they'd roll into where the animals were

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Speaker 2: or into the fireplace. As the kids get old and

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Speaker 2: they start to get really mobile, like a very mobile

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Speaker 2: two year old, there were issues about them going into

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Speaker 2: the river or the lake or the forest, and so

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Speaker 2: parents made up stories about goblins and monsters that were

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Speaker 2: going to destroy them, eat them, steal them, all that

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff, which I mean, you know, you can

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Speaker 2: make up those stories if you want, but your kiddo

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Speaker 2: is probably not really going to believe you, and may

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Speaker 2: end up believing that the world is a really, really

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Speaker 2: dangerous place. I don't know that that's that troublesome that concerning.

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Speaker 2: There was a fun book called Hunt, Gather Parent that

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Speaker 2: was written by somebody called Michael Leen du Clef a

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Speaker 2: couple of years ago. In that book, Michael Lean talks

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Speaker 2: about that, and it works really well even for the

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Speaker 2: Eskimos living in North America. The people are the Mayans

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Speaker 2: living in the Yucatan Peninsula. They still make up those

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Speaker 2: stories and the kids end up safe most of the time.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about some solutions if you don't want to

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Speaker 2: make up horrible stories about what's going to happen if

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Speaker 2: they go near the road, which probably won't make a

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Speaker 2: big difference anyway. Number one, The good news, your child

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Speaker 2: feels safe. Your child actually feels safe, which means that

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Speaker 2: your child feels secure and exploring, knowing that she can

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Speaker 2: come back to you when things are dangerous. The bad news,

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Speaker 2: your child feels safe, which means that she explores and

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Speaker 2: she doesn't really know when things are dangerous, which means

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Speaker 2: that she's potentially not coming back to you. Now, every

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Speaker 2: now and again, I talk to a parent who says,

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Speaker 2: I just call their bluff. I say, okay, bye, I

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Speaker 2: have fun running on the road, and then I sit

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Speaker 2: there and watch. I haven't got the stomach for that.

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Speaker 2: I can't tolerate the discomfort associated with that, because if

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Speaker 2: your child takes three extra steps, goes that extra meter

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Speaker 2: and a half and ends up on the road on

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Speaker 2: the bitchman. Well, that could be catastrophic. So what do

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Speaker 2: you do? And Number one I reckon. Just keep on explaining,

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Speaker 2: keep on having the conversation. This is something that you're

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Speaker 2: going to need to talk about ongoingly, not necessarily road safety,

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Speaker 2: but there will always be a safety issue for you

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Speaker 2: to talk about with your child. It'll go from being

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Speaker 2: road safety to body safety to I don't know, moral safety.

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Speaker 2: It just keeps on happening over and over and over

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Speaker 2: again as your child gets older. This is part of life.

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Speaker 2: It's just you're at the toddler road safety issue right now.

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Speaker 2: Something that can be useful here is getting your child

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Speaker 2: to ex playing it to you. That doesn't always work

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Speaker 2: because toddler's cognitive capacity, especially once they get emotional and excited,

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Speaker 2: can be quite limited. But that's my solution. Their next solution.

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Speaker 2: Be vigilant. This is a developmental stage. Your child will

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Speaker 2: grow through it. Sometimes you just got to be on

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Speaker 2: top of it and recognize if you go to a venue,

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Speaker 2: a park, whatever, where there is the capacity for your

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Speaker 2: child to get beyond defense, or if there is no

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Speaker 2: offence and they could be on the road. You need

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Speaker 2: to be vigilant full step. End of story. Other ideas

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Speaker 2: lots of attention to running near the road can be

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Speaker 2: absolutely delightful for your child. They get a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of power out of it. They think that it's so

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Speaker 2: much fun. They get the giggles. They see you chasing,

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Speaker 2: and they think this is wonderful. I'm getting all this

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Speaker 2: attention and they feel kind of powerful. But there's traffic there,

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Speaker 2: so do what you musk. Here's the one piece of

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Speaker 2: advice that might be really useful, though, and that is

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Speaker 2: don't over respond in less worrisome situations. It's not always

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Speaker 2: going to be about cars and traffic and genuine danger.

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Speaker 2: Other times we overrespond and they still get the giggles,

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Speaker 2: they still get the chase, they still get the power.

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Speaker 2: But we could have just left it alone. So try

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Speaker 2: to be as discerning as you can, relax where possible,

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Speaker 2: don't step in unless you have to. I think that's

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Speaker 2: going to make a difference. A couple of other solutions,

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Speaker 2: maybe three other quick solutions after you remember that it's normal.

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Speaker 2: Number one, always hold hands, just keep them attached to you.

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Speaker 2: Number two, don't take them sometimes that's the best solution. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 2: if you're going for an outing to the park, you

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Speaker 2: need to take them. But if you're going shopping or

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Speaker 2: you've got to run some errands, if there's any way

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Speaker 2: that you can leave that child behind. They hate doing

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Speaker 2: that stuff anyway, leave them with another adult that they

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Speaker 2: can have better quality time with. Number three, be proactive.

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Speaker 2: Not only are we working on explanations here, but go

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Speaker 2: to places where it's safe. To the extent that you

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Speaker 2: can do that, they're my best options. Otherwise, wait it out,

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Speaker 2: let her grow it out. It will stop. Keep her

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Speaker 2: safe in the meantime. Up next question number two. Question

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Speaker 2: number two.

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Speaker 3: Hello Karen from Bristine. I do have some problems with

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Speaker 3: my daughter going to school. She gets out of going

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Speaker 3: to school approximately one day a month, I thought, but

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Speaker 3: she told the pediatrician today it's more like one day

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Speaker 3: a week. But I think that's a really high number

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Speaker 3: of days off. But she's actually pretty good at figuring

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Speaker 3: out when I'm busy and when I'm working from home,

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Speaker 3: and she's actually very clever at watching me and working

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Speaker 3: out when the best time to ask for a day off, and.

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Speaker 4: She'll usually get it based on my schedule and what

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Speaker 4: else is going on in my world. So she's very

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Speaker 4: clever with how she does it, and she's obviously very observant,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I keep encouraging her to to go

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Speaker 4: because it's better to not fall behind. And if you

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Speaker 4: fall behind, then you feel like you're a goose, and

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Speaker 4: then you don't want to go next time. And it's

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Speaker 4: better to go because then you keep in touch with

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Speaker 4: your friends, and you know, there's all these really good

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Speaker 4: reasons that I try to encourage her. But yeah, it

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Speaker 4: can be a bit of a struggle sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Karen from Brisbane, I hear it. Nobody wants to

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Speaker 2: feel like a goose. That's such an australianism, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: We have some American friends and the first time they

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Speaker 2: heard me use the term goose, they thought that was

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Speaker 2: just hilarious. No kid wants to feel like a goose.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about their school problems once a month.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's not ideal. Once a week. That's really concerning.

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Speaker 2: By some measures, people who do psychological research in this

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Speaker 2: area would suggest that ten days per term, which is

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Speaker 2: once a week, would equate to what's known as problematic

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Speaker 2: school avoidance. This is a pretty high number, and it

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Speaker 2: sounds like there could be some deceit around this. Now

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Speaker 2: I've got no idea of the age of your child,

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Speaker 2: but it does sound like, based on what you've described,

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with a teenager here. This topic keeps on

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Speaker 2: coming up in the podcast. Normally we're talking about younger kids.

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Speaker 2: This time it's an older child, and I think it

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Speaker 2: is a really big deal. We've got pretty clear messaging

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Speaker 2: coming from researchers and from the government highlighting that every

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Speaker 2: day counts. Now, some people take that to more extremes

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Speaker 2: than others. If you're in the luxurious position of coming

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Speaker 2: from a reasonably well off home where education is valued

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Speaker 2: and there's lots of books and there's plenty of resources,

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Speaker 2: then you can probably afford mental health day now and then.

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Speaker 2: And it's okay. If you come from a low income

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Speaker 2: home in an environment where education has not been valued previously,

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Speaker 2: or there's just some challenges in the environment, every day

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Speaker 2: really does matter. So there's a bit of a sort

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Speaker 2: of an economic privilege that goes along with this concept.

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Speaker 2: Let's just highlight though, there are positives and negatives to

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Speaker 2: mental health days. If you've got kids that are doing

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Speaker 2: really well, and they feel like having a day off

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Speaker 2: because they I just want to rest, or they want

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Speaker 2: to get on top of things a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: When you're talking about teenagers, sometimes they can manage that

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Speaker 2: reasonably well and it does feel good. Plus they get

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Speaker 2: a sense of autonomy. If you've got a child who

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Speaker 2: is struggling, or if you've got a child who wants

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Speaker 2: to have too many mental health days, or if you

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Speaker 2: just allow it, sometimes they get this sense that they're

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Speaker 2: entitled to days off and it can blow out into

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Speaker 2: this problematic school avoidance, which means that there ends up

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Speaker 2: being too many days and then your kido falls behind,

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Speaker 2: looks incompetent, and ultimately feels like a goose. So so

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Speaker 2: how are we supposed to navigate this? I want to

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Speaker 2: get a little bit, a little bit autobiographical for just

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Speaker 2: a sec. My parents made me finish year twelve. I

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Speaker 2: could have finished in year ten. I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a radio announcer. If you've listened to the radio, and

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Speaker 2: you listen to whoever's running breakfast on your local radio station,

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Speaker 2: you can usually tell that they didn't have to do

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Speaker 2: that well in high school to be able to have

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Speaker 2: the career that they've got. I knew that SORR. That

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Speaker 2: sounded like a pretty derogatory to say, but anyone in

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Speaker 2: radio knows it's true anyway, So let's move on. I

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Speaker 2: knew that as a kid, I knew that nobody that

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Speaker 2: I was looking up to in the radio industry had

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Speaker 2: a fabulous academic pedigree, and I didn't need one either.

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Speaker 2: I could have finished in year ten and gone on

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Speaker 2: with it and been pretty done happy. Mum and Dad

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Speaker 2: forced me to finish year twelve, and I've spent more

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Speaker 2: time wagging school and surfing than going to school. They

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of money, just wasn't great. So I

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Speaker 2: think the first thing to do here is number one,

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Speaker 2: work with the school. Talk to them about what you're seeing,

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Speaker 2: ask them what they're seeing. Check to see if your

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Speaker 2: child's engaged, and talk to the teachers to find out

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Speaker 2: if there are ways that you can help your child

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Speaker 2: to be more engaged. I mean, the reality is, especially

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Speaker 2: once you get into high school, sometimes school just feels

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Speaker 2: like a grind, feels like you're going absolutely nowhere, and

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Speaker 2: that drives the kids crazy, especially once you get to

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Speaker 2: about grade nine, grade ten. These are just these messy

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Speaker 2: middle years when nothing much is happening, So work with

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Speaker 2: the school. Number two, I'd say listen to your kid.

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Speaker 2: Have a listen to your child. See what's going on

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Speaker 2: for your child, understand them, and get your head around

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Speaker 2: what it is that they either love or hate about school.

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Speaker 2: My guess is going to come back to three basic

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Speaker 2: psychological needs. Their relationships aren't going to be that great,

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Speaker 2: or they're going to not feel like they're really getting

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Speaker 2: it together from a competence, capability and progress point of view.

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Speaker 2: Or they're going to feel controlled because they want to

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Speaker 2: go in a different direction and this is just where

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Speaker 2: we're forcing them to be. Once you've got that sorted,

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Speaker 2: dive in and attach this to their goals and purpose,

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Speaker 2: really understand where they want to go, and make sure

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Speaker 2: that they're going to make progress rather than be a passenger.

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Speaker 2: No one likes passengers. Everyone likes to be making progress.

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Speaker 2: If you can attach their education to their goals on purpose,

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Speaker 2: they're going to be much more engaged. They're going to

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Speaker 2: buy in and just do a better job as a student.

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Speaker 2: What that also means, number four is that we need

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Speaker 2: to consider legitimate alternative strategies. If they've got a goal

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Speaker 2: or a purpose that is not oriented towards an academic outcome. Now,

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Speaker 2: finishing each world does matter. We've got pretty good data

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Speaker 2: in a recent parliamentary inquiry. People who finish your twelve

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Speaker 2: earn a lot more money than people who don't, They

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Speaker 2: have better well being outcomes. It generally makes a big difference.

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Speaker 2: But there are some people who don't finish your twelve

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Speaker 2: who live incredible lives because they've tied it in with

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Speaker 2: their purpose and they are heading in a positive direction.

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Speaker 2: They're earning or they're learning, and they're heading in the

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Speaker 2: right direction. So I guess that brings me to my

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Speaker 2: fifth and final point, and that is this you need

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Speaker 2: as a parent. You want as a parent to emphasize

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Speaker 2: that sometimes school really does suck. Right, I'm sorry for

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Speaker 2: being so blunt about it, but sometimes school is the worst,

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Speaker 2: but it can get you where you want to go.

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Speaker 2: And the difference between finishing and not finishing well. Not

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Speaker 2: finishing casts a pretty long shadow through the rest of

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Speaker 2: your life. Like I said, unless you've got some really

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Speaker 2: strong alternative purpose that's going to get you where you

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Speaker 2: want to go, Worth the conversation with the school, Worth

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Speaker 2: the conversation with your child, worth working it out and

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Speaker 2: absolutely absolutely considering whatever alternatives are necessary to get your

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Speaker 2: child through this. It really matters. It will make a

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Speaker 2: big difference that certification is valuable. Really hope that these

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Speaker 2: questions have been answered to your satisfaction, have given you

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Speaker 2: some ideas for your conversations with your kiddos to keep

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Speaker 2: them safe and help them to progress. If you would

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Speaker 2: like to submit a question, jump onto Happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot you next Tuesday. I'll answer it to more

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Speaker 2: questions Happy families dot com dot you. Leave us a

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Speaker 2: voice note at the podcasts page. Super easy to use.

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Speaker 2: Just press the button start talking. Make sure you write

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Speaker 2: something down so you know what you want to say first,

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Speaker 2: makes it come out a whole lot better. The Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast is produced by Justin ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: More information about making your family happier is available at

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Speaker 2: Happy families dot com dot you, including our brand new

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Speaker 2: FELT membership. FELT stands for fostering emotional learning Together. It's

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Speaker 2: our brand new membership integrated with our Happy Families membership

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Speaker 2: to help you to do activities with your kids so

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Speaker 2: that they can regulate their emotions better, be more resilient,

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Speaker 2: and have better well being and your family can flourish

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Speaker 2: all the details about Felt and the membersh at happy

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Speaker 2: families dot com dot a

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Speaker 3: H