1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 2: wants answers. Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson on 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: the Happy Family's podcast. I'm doing it on my own today. 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 2: I missus Happy Families. Kylie, my dear wife and mum 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: to our six kids, just couldn't be here because sometimes, well, 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 2: that's life. I've done a house to say it. When 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: you're homeschooling a couple of kids and running a busy 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: household and all that sort of stuff, sometimes you just 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: can't show up for work. And somehow Kylie has managed 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: to not be here today. So we're going to have 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: a conversation without Kylie. I think we can still manage it. 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: The discussion that I wanted to have with you is 14 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: actually a really important one, and it revolves around emotions 15 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: and the way that we respond to our children's speak emotions. 16 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: Over the last fifteen years since I've sort of started 17 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: doing parenting workshops through to today in twenty twenty four, 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: what I've noticed is that there's been a really big swing. 19 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: When I first came on board and started talk to 20 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: parents about their kids and their emotions, what I was 21 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: saying was revolutionary, this idea that we should pay attention 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: to our children's emotions, that we should be responsive to them, 23 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: and to take a leaf out of John Gotman's book, 24 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: that we should work on this thing called emotion coaching 25 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: with our kids. Now, this overall is a good idea, 26 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: and my position hasn't changed. However, thanks to the rise 27 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: of mummy bloggers and instamums and the TikTok parenthood craze, 28 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: I don't know what else to call it. There's so 29 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: much TikTok and going on around parenting. What I've noticed 30 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: is that parents of the last fifteen years have gone 31 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: through nothing short of a revolutionary change in the way 32 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: that they respond to their children their big emotions, so 33 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: much so that well, I don't believe that my position 34 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: has shifted at all. I believe that the rest of 35 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: the world has gone from nowhere near what I was 36 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 2: talking about to going well beyond what I was talking 37 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: about and actually making emotions too important. 38 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: Now. 39 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this and talking about it for 40 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: at least a year now, including in a conversation that 41 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: I had with doctor Lisa Damore. Lisa D. Moore is 42 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: a New York Times best selling parenting author. She's had 43 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: three books on that New York Times bestseller's list. She 44 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: and I have had a couple of really great conversations 45 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: on Instagram and on this podcast, and what I wanted 46 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,559 Speaker 2: to talk about today is this swing to a really 47 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to say, a hard core version of gentle 48 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: parenting if you can handle the juxtaposition a hard core 49 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: version of gentle parenting and the impact of the TikTok 50 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: generation of parent influences. This swing to making emotions too important, 51 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: making too much of kid's emotions is something that I'm 52 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: worried about. I asked doctor Demore the same thing, and 53 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: here's what she said. 54 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: Perhaps I will tell you what your question reminds me of. 55 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: It reminds me of a conversation I had literally almost 56 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: twenty years ago when I was enormously pregnant with the 57 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: kid who just finished her first year of college, my 58 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: oldest daughter, and so I was about to become a 59 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: parent for the first time, and I was with a 60 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: senior clinical colleague and we were wrapping up a meeting 61 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: and it was the last time I was going to 62 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: see her before I went on maternity leave, and I 63 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: was almost out the door and she was like, Lisa, 64 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: do you want me to tell you how psychologists mess 65 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,839 Speaker 1: up their kids? And I said yes, And she said 66 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: they talk about feelings too much. They talk about them 67 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: too much that when the kid is having an upset feeling, 68 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: the psychologist parent might be saying, oh, you're having a 69 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: mad feeling, let's explore that mad feeling. And what she 70 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: said is there comes a point where you say, you've 71 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: been upset for a while. What's going to help you 72 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: feel better? 73 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: So I really love this. When I was out on 74 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: a walk one time with my eldest daughter, I think 75 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: she was probably thirteen at the time, I was talking 76 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: to her about her emotions and what was going on, 77 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 2: and she said, Dad, I don't need you to be 78 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: a psychologist. I just need you to be my dad. 79 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: Our kids do need us to respond to their emotions, 80 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: they need us to be engaged with their emotions, but 81 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: they don't need us to make their emotions king. I 82 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: just love the way doctor de Moore shighlights that in 83 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: her previous conversation with me Now a couple of weeks ago, 84 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: on The Happy Family's podcast, I was talking about Abigail 85 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: Schreier's new book Bad therapy. I was not backwards in 86 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: saying I don't love it, and in fact, there are 87 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: some really majors that I have with aspects of the book. 88 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: But what I also said is she got several things 89 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: bang on. It's just that there's a whole lot of 90 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: half truths that are mixed in there, and she ignored 91 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: so much research that could have been helpful to make 92 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: of points, especially the stuff that I usually talk about. 93 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: But she said this now, now, she was taking a 94 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: swipe at what happens in schools, but I think it 95 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 2: applies more broadly to what's going on with parents as well, 96 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: she said, and I quote, for well over a decade, 97 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: teachers and school counselors have assumed the mandate and curricula 98 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: and use of instructional time to play shrink indiscriminately with kids, 99 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: often styled as social emotional learning. Parents stopped trusting their 100 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: own judgment and family traditions regarding child rearing, instead relying 101 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: on shrinks to guide their parenting. And we all allowed 102 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: our kids largely normal bad feelings to be pathologized by 103 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: those in the bad feelings business. Generation Z is receiving 104 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: unprecedented levels of mental health treatment. They seem only to 105 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: be getting worse. My take on this, when we go 106 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: too far and responding to feelings, we do the same thing. 107 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: Is it true that there are some children whose feelings 108 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: are really big and need a lot of attention. Absolutely? 109 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: Is it up to parents or school teachers or counselors 110 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: to look after that. Not. Really, This is a job 111 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: for people who are trained in psychology. And the reason 112 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: for that is when we respond by going too far 113 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: in terms of feelings, what we actually do is we 114 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: marinate in the feelings. We ruminate and chew over the feelings. 115 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: We don't get out of the feelings. And that's where 116 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 2: you need somebody who's trained to help you to not 117 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: only work through the feeling, but get past the feeling. 118 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: I look at it as a train going through a tunnel, right. 119 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: Your emotion goes into this deep, dark, long, scary place sometimes, 120 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: but sometimes you give it the time, it will come 121 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 2: out the other end. Unfortunately, too often, when we sit 122 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: down and we try to validate and sit in the 123 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: feelings of our kids without the appropriate training, what we 124 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: do amplify and magnify the feelings. Now, please don't get 125 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: me wrong, I'm not suggesting I'm not suggesting at all 126 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: that we should ignore our children's feelings. They need to 127 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: be acknowledged, they need to be validated. It's what we 128 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: do after that. In my chat with doctor Lisa Demore, 129 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: one more thing that's worth highlighting. She said this beautifully. 130 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes kids regulate emotions through expressing them, talking about them, 131 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: getting them out physically, weep, being listening to music that 132 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: catalyzes the experience. And sometimes kids regulate emotions by teeming 133 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: them by finding ways to quiet them, so seeking comforts, 134 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: temporary distractions, problem solve and gaining a new perspective, taking advice, 135 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, like there's that sort of in that group 136 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: of regulatory strategies. 137 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: I just want to repeat that sometimes kids regulate their 138 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: emotions through expressing them. If we constantly get so uncomfortable 139 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: with our kids having feelings that we feel like we 140 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: need to step in and coach them through those feelings 141 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: and be there through the feelings and validate and allow 142 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 2: them to have their feelings, and we're not sensitive to 143 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: what our child needs, we step into the role of 144 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: therapist rather than parent. My take on this is pretty 145 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: short and simple. Really, validation matters. I don't want anyone 146 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: to think that I'm moving away from recognizing that somebody 147 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: is having a hard time as an adult male when 148 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: I'm having a rough time. There's nothing I love more 149 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: than when my wife Kylie says to me, it sounds 150 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: like you've had a rough day. That's the validation that 151 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: I need. She says, what she sees, you look like 152 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: you're really frustrated. Did things not go well earlier with 153 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: that meeting? That kind of thing? And we can do 154 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: the same thing with our kids. Wow, you've walked in 155 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: the door, and I can tell by just looking at 156 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 2: you that today did not go the way you hoped. 157 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: And then you give them time to process. So, if 158 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: Kylie's talking to me, here's what I want from her. 159 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: I want her to say something like this, do you 160 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: want to talk about it? Or do you just want 161 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: some space? Do you need a hug? What do you need? 162 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: And So, what Kylie's doing is she's giving me some 163 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: agency over what's going to happen next. She knows that 164 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: I've been seen and heard in valued, that she's validated me. 165 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: And now she's saying, so what do you need now? 166 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: Do you need some space or do you want a hug? 167 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: Or do you want to chat, and I find the 168 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: exact same line works with children brilliantly when you look 169 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: at your child and say, it looks like you had 170 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: a rough day. Do you need some time to figure 171 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: this out? Or do you want me to be close 172 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: to you? Like, do you want to chat or have 173 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: a hug? And the kids will pause and it gives 174 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: them a little bit of distance from what's going on 175 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: and they can say, yeah, I need a hug, or 176 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: yeah we can chat, or often those shrug their shoulder 177 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: and say no, I'm okay. But once they've had that time, 178 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: we just check in, I've missed you. Are you ready 179 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: for a hug now? And you give them a hug 180 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: or you get consent for a conversation, and then instead 181 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: of saying, why don't you tell me all about it, 182 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: let's dive deep into what's going on here, let's marinate 183 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: in the problem. We move towards action and solutions. So 184 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: it sounds like you had a tough day. Now that 185 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: you've thought about it, have you got a play for 186 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: how to move ahead? Is everything okay? Do we need 187 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: to discuss things? Are you all good? And then you 188 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: get to move into a much more productive and action 189 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: oriented place. If they need to spend time in the emotions, 190 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: of course spend time there. But once again, our job 191 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: is not to make the emotions king. It's to understand 192 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 2: the emotions so it can be processed and then we 193 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 2: can move on. So I hope that's helpful. If you 194 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 2: want to have a listen to the least it of 195 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: more conversation about kids and their emotions, we'll link to 196 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: that in the show notes and you can link through 197 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: to that and have a listener. It's a great discussion. 198 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from 199 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and for 200 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: more information about how you can make your family happier, 201 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: please visit us at Happy families dot com dot you