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Speaker 1: This is gam Nation with Jones.

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Speaker 2: Chris Mins is the leader of the New South Wales

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Speaker 2: Labor Party and he's making news this morning declaring that

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Speaker 2: if he's elected next year, he wants mobile phones banned

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Speaker 2: during the day at high schools. I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: anyone who disagree with this, but is it actually possible?

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Speaker 2: Chris Mins joins us now, Good morning, Chris, Good.

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Speaker 1: Morning, Amanda, Good morning Joe.

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Speaker 3: Chris. How are you yeah, really.

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Speaker 1: Good during the beautiful morning here in Congra.

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Speaker 2: Well, it isn't not raining. I can't even look out

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Speaker 2: the window from here and it looks Okay.

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Speaker 3: We boil the curtains down in the studio.

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Speaker 2: I know, to make it dark. I'm like a budgy

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Speaker 2: locked in for our online content.

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Speaker 1: Yea great day. I'm sure you'll get into it.

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Speaker 2: So I will eventually get into it. So, Chris, what's

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Speaker 2: your research telling you about what's at stake if we

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Speaker 2: don't do something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a good question, Amanda. So in the

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Speaker 1: UK it's optional for schools to ban mobile phones in

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Speaker 1: high school or not. So they've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: data that indicates whether it's a good thing to do

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Speaker 1: within a high school because they can compare schooling communities,

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Speaker 1: and they've shown with studies that there's a sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old a six point four percent increase in results for

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Speaker 1: standardized testing, which is the equivalent of five extra school days,

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Speaker 1: and the gains were highest amongst the lowest academic achieves.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think there's any doubt that mobile phones

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Speaker 1: and social media in particular are a huge destruction in

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Speaker 1: the classroom. And I think it's almost impossible for a

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Speaker 1: teacher to work out whether a student is solving a

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Speaker 1: complicated calculus problem on the phone or checking a TikTok

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Speaker 1: update or texting a friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it seems odd to me that this is allowed,

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Speaker 3: that you can have a mobile phone in school. But

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Speaker 3: as you say, my son when he was at school,

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Speaker 3: my younger son, he had a tablet that he did

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Speaker 3: all his homework on, and a lot of the times

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Speaker 3: I'd be watching him, I think, is he doing homework

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Speaker 3: or is he doing school? And then sometimes I say,

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Speaker 3: that's not a face of that's a face of enjoyment.

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Speaker 3: That's not a face of homework.

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Speaker 2: But during the lockdown and kids working doing their schooling

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Speaker 2: from home, the technology saved everyone.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And obviously technology has to be part of the

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Speaker 1: average school day, and many students rely on computers and

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Speaker 1: tablets to get that done. But texting kids in classrooms

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Speaker 1: or getting onto social media sites is not education. And look,

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Speaker 1: I just feel that the New South Wales government's approach

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Speaker 1: to this is to say we don't want to ban it,

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Speaker 1: we want to plot and help students have healthy phone habits.

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Speaker 1: I just don't think it's going to happen. You can't

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Speaker 1: have young people who don't have the discipline on maturity

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Speaker 1: to deal with sophisticated technology that's actually designed to keep

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Speaker 1: them on the device. I know many adults that find

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Speaker 1: it almost impossible to put down their mobile phone. Heaven

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Speaker 1: help young children who don't have the maturity to judge

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Speaker 1: the difference between working on a math problem or a

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare issue or having to deal with social media issues

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Speaker 1: in the sum total of human knowledge in someone's back pocket.

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Speaker 3: So logistically, how hard would it be to what do

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Speaker 3: you have to put? You have to pass a law,

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Speaker 3: So that would sounds pretty hard.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean it's really simple. In terms of the

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Speaker 1: New South Wales State Department Schools, we would just fan

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Speaker 1: it inside New south Wales public schools in high school

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Speaker 1: in particular, it's already banned. It should be said in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales primary schools. We'd leave it up to

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Speaker 1: schools as to whether students have to hand their phone

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Speaker 1: in the morning. We'll put it in their bag and

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Speaker 1: not be able to access it during a school day.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say I've had teachers tell me

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Speaker 1: that in many cases students will just take out their

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Speaker 1: mobile phone in the middle of class. It's impossible for

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Speaker 1: us teacher to determine whether this is actually educational or related,

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Speaker 1: or they're jumping on a TikTok video.

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Speaker 2: So if they're all banned, then there's no excuse for

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Speaker 2: anyone to take it out of their bag.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, we need to make sure that there's exemptions for

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Speaker 1: those who, for example, are monitoring blood sugar levels or

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Speaker 1: have a heart condition, or there's some kind of medical exemption.

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Speaker 1: Most of those technologies are actually associated with smart watches

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Speaker 1: rather than mobile phones, but we need to make sure

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Speaker 1: those exemptions are in place. And I should also say

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Speaker 1: that this has happened in Western Australia, Victoria and South

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Speaker 1: Australia's about to implement the change as well, so we

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Speaker 1: can borrow from those jurisdictions, work out what's working in

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Speaker 1: the classroom, and make sure our students aren't disadvantaged as

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Speaker 1: in relation to the other state.

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Speaker 2: I know it's easy to feel like the genie is

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Speaker 2: out of the bottle and we can't really do anything.

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Speaker 2: But we spoke to Johann what was Johann's last name.

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Speaker 2: He had a book about how hard it is for us.

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Speaker 2: Johann Hari, how hard it is for us to focus,

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Speaker 2: and it's really not our fault, kids, teachers, parents, politicians,

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Speaker 2: everybody because of all the technology. But he said, we

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Speaker 2: have to remember humans have been alive for millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of years. The technology is new. We can still

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Speaker 2: shape how we deal.

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Speaker 3: We've been around for ten thousand days.

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Speaker 2: We are in control of it. We seem to lose

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Speaker 2: sight of.

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Speaker 1: That, don't we Absolutely, and children have malleable brains. It's

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Speaker 1: really crucial for learning. That's exactly how young people learn

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Speaker 1: the skills and educational information that they need to survive.

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Speaker 1: But it's also right for manipulation. And I'm really concerned

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Speaker 1: that young children at Guinea Pigs, almost the big social

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Speaker 1: media firms, they're the first generation to go through this,

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Speaker 1: and we've got no idea what the long term impact

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Speaker 1: will be the younger generation, So if in doubt, let's

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Speaker 1: protect them. This is a good first step in making

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Speaker 1: sure that we focus on education and make sure that technology,

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Speaker 1: which is useful in many instances, is not adversely affecting

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Speaker 1: children's education.

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Speaker 3: When I was at school, you're going to even have

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Speaker 3: a calculator. I did for my calculators, write boobs on it.

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Speaker 2: That was how you did.

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Speaker 3: That was my major work.

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Speaker 1: That was pretty much if you put that into a smartphone, Jones,

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Speaker 1: you're in.

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Speaker 3: Big, big He's wrote it out by half and that's

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Speaker 3: why that's why you're running as leader of the opposition

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Speaker 3: and not me, Chris. But you're doing the good work, mate.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Always great to catch up with you, the honorable Chris

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Speaker 3: Men's there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.