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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda in the mornings, saam well listen up,

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Speaker 1: because if anyone knows how to get through isolation, it

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Speaker 1: is our next guest. She led a team of eighteen

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Speaker 1: people through a year long expedition in Antarctica darkness for

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty days, the thermometer reading minus forty

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Speaker 1: degrees and pretty much nine months with just the same people.

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Speaker 1: She's now a global expert on leading in difficult situations

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Speaker 1: and to share some lessons from the other end of

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: Rachel robertson, Hello, hello there.

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Speaker 3: What about you and your book Respect Trump's Harmony? When

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Speaker 3: I first said, I, oh, this is about Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: but it's actually respect beats harmony if we're playing games.

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Speaker 2: So meaning I guess that card games that you don't

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Speaker 2: need to be liked in groups like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly what it was, and it's just not

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Speaker 4: It's not practical how to have eighteen people who are

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Speaker 4: so different across age, religion, sexuality, culture, profession leaving on

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Speaker 4: top of each other for nine months. We can't come home,

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Speaker 4: I can't get away from each other. So for me

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Speaker 4: as the leader to expect that they all love each

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Speaker 4: other was just not going to happen. And I didn't

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Speaker 4: even expect that like each other, and we didn't.

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Speaker 5: But I did expect that we treat each other with respect.

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Speaker 2: Do you see any similarities between what you went through

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Speaker 2: and what we're all going through now?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, lots and lots. And what I'm seeing now with

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Speaker 4: my friends and my family is what we call three

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Speaker 4: quarter time down south, and psychologists have studied it in

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Speaker 4: Antarctica and with the astronauts and submarines, and it's when

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Speaker 4: we've been through the tough bit and any novelty has

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Speaker 4: gone now and we're over it, and all the things

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Speaker 4: that have bugged us for so long and now staying

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Speaker 4: to really irritate us. And that happened with my team

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Speaker 4: in September. We left in November, but by September that

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Speaker 4: was when it was the toughest time, when we put

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Speaker 4: up with each other for so long, and the little

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Speaker 4: things were really starting to drive us nuts. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm seeing that a lot.

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Speaker 3: Now, what are some of the little things when you're

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Speaker 3: in Antarctica that would I could think of a million things,

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Speaker 3: but what was what's one example that's just spread to

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Speaker 3: your mind, the.

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Speaker 4: Biggest one, the one that gets a gooley for us

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Speaker 4: with the baker was we had a fight about where

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Speaker 4: the bacon should be cooked, soft or crispy, and one

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Speaker 4: of the teams wanted me to call a meeting and

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Speaker 4: decide how the bacon should be cooked. And when I

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Speaker 4: got to the bottom of it, I found out that

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Speaker 4: the relationship between these two teams had broken down and

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Speaker 4: they thought the other team was cooking the bacon the

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Speaker 4: opposite way to irritate them. And I realized, Wow, this

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Speaker 4: has actually nothing to do with bacon. It's about respect.

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Speaker 4: And I started to identify all these little things that

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Speaker 4: drive people crazy. And the reason is that it's a

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Speaker 4: symptom of a deeper issue. And the deeper issue is

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Speaker 4: the lack of respect, and that we've done research on

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Speaker 4: it for the book. And the classic one in Australia

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Speaker 4: is dirty coffee mugs and dirty staff rooms and tea

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Speaker 4: rooms at work and people leaving stuff lying around and

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Speaker 4: yet the dishwasher.

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Speaker 5: It's a classic baker wak.

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Speaker 3: Well, will you, just out of curiosity, how do you

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Speaker 3: like your bacon, Rachel?

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Speaker 2: Do you like it soft or oh, chrispy?

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Speaker 1: All the way?

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Speaker 3: Mate, got to be chrispy, so that would true that

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Speaker 3: would be tricky as team leader if one sides going

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Speaker 3: for the one that you want, you have to sort

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Speaker 3: of be impartial.

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Speaker 5: Oh you do. And we're a chef.

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Speaker 4: The chef usually cooks, so the chef has the one

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Speaker 4: morning offul week, so there's only one morning a week

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Speaker 4: that we all have to cook. But you don't argue

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Speaker 4: with a chef, like, whatever chef serves you, that's what

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Speaker 4: you eat.

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Speaker 5: And everybody knows that.

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Speaker 4: So it's only the one morning a week where the

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Speaker 4: trade is and myself had to chip in and cook breakfast.

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Speaker 4: But I've noticed it now too, like sharing offices at home.

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Speaker 4: I had the same deal with my husband. He talks

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Speaker 4: on the phone a lot and he's noisy, and I'm

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Speaker 4: a writer, so I'm trying to be quiet. So we

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Speaker 4: had to have a conversation really early on to say

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Speaker 4: how we're going to use this one office between the

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Speaker 4: two of us, because otherwise we're going to fight and

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Speaker 4: it's just not going to happen.

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Speaker 5: So that was the Baker War. We had to get

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Speaker 5: in front of this, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, like a month ago, work out what we're going

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Speaker 4: to do about the Baker War, which was respecting the

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Speaker 4: space we have to share and nothing. Now we're all

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Speaker 4: in lockdown, we're sharing a lot of space, and when

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Speaker 4: you're sharing space, those little things we're just driving us.

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Speaker 4: And that's possibly why that it's a symptom of the

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Speaker 4: deeper issue around a lack of respect.

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Speaker 1: You said that we're sort of in the three quarter

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Speaker 1: zone and how everyone's getting cranky. What tips do you

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Speaker 1: have for how we can.

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Speaker 2: Get through it.

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Speaker 4: I named it with my team, I explained it, and

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Speaker 4: so look, it's a known thing. The experts know about this.

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Speaker 4: And the other thing we had to talk about too

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Speaker 4: was coming out the other side and the impact is

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Speaker 4: coming out of isolation, which was massive, but for three

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Speaker 4: quarter time, just naming it, just saying, look, we understand

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Speaker 4: we're all feeling it.

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Speaker 5: It's a known thing. You're not going mad.

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Speaker 4: It's actually a studied thing and will pass. And we

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Speaker 4: need to start thinking in the next week or two

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Speaker 4: about coming out of isolation and all these things that

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Speaker 4: will have a huge impact, like noise. When I come

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Speaker 4: back to Australia, the noise of being in a city

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Speaker 4: was just overwhelming. The choice, having choice for the first time,

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Speaker 4: you know what I wanted to eat and what to wear,

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Speaker 4: and where else going to go and even physical contacts.

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Speaker 4: So for people living alone may not have even chat

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Speaker 4: a handshake, you know, shaped in someone's hands for six weeks.

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Speaker 4: Then suddenly they'll be out in the world and the

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Speaker 4: people who need that physical touch will be come them

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Speaker 4: and hugging them. And it's just it's a big thing.

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Speaker 4: And I think just thinking about the differences again that

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Speaker 4: respect Trump somethingy, that difference will all approach it differently,

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Speaker 4: and some people it will be quite overwhelming.

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Speaker 3: I imagine these are handy tools. I respect Trump's harmonies

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Speaker 3: at all good bookstores today and if anything, You've got

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Speaker 3: another book titled The Bacon War was.

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Speaker 4: Oh, there's so many of them. And there's the classic ones,

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Speaker 4: like people who are always late for meetings, you know,

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Speaker 4: and we say, oh, you know, that's just Jonesy, that's

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Speaker 4: just a man, and it's like, well, no, it's not.

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Speaker 4: And the other classic one, which we we had in

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Speaker 4: Antarctica was we had a rule called no triangles. And

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Speaker 4: no triangles is just I don't speak to a mandra

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Speaker 4: about Jones. If I have something to say, I go

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Speaker 4: directly to him. I don't take it to a third party.

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Speaker 4: And just that one simple thing kept us staying and

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Speaker 4: stopped a lot of that irritating because when you're under pressure,

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Speaker 4: we all are now, when you're under pressure, and it's

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Speaker 4: just the last thing you need is someone talking and

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Speaker 4: winging about you behind your back. So we had this

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Speaker 4: rule of no triangles and it just kept it staying.

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Speaker 3: There you go, and what is a to said about me, Rachel?

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Speaker 3: We just stay everyone.

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Speaker 2: About it and no triangles made it hard to set

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Speaker 2: up the billiard table.

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Speaker 3: But exactly, Rachel.

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Speaker 2: It's great, fat Rachel. Thank you, and.

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Speaker 3: Check out the book Respect trans Harmony in all the

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Speaker 3: bookstores today. Thank you, Rachel.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me join the and Amanda in Good

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Speaker 4: Morning One at one point seven. Tell you