WEBVTT - Parenting expert Dr Justin Coulson says there’s more to life than “reaching our potential” 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:04.920 Good parenting is a pretty tricky idea to talk about, 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:09.119 especially in the age of social media. Even with the 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.600 mountain of books about parenting, it still feels like you're 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.720 throwing into the deep end when you first become a parent, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.759 and then every moment in your children's lives makes you 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.959 feel like you're starting all over again. Parenting a toddler, 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.400 between a teenager and even an adult can feel like 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.919 diving in the deep end every single year. If parenting 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.160 feels like a full time job, imagine how doctor Justin 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.559 Coulson feels. Not only is he the father of six daughters, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.640 but he's also one of Australia's most trusted parenting experts. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.760 He's the author of a slew of successful parenting books, 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.760 the host of The Happy Family's podcast, and co host 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.800 of Channel nine's Parental Guidance. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:00.480 Vice. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:05.120 Does Justin have about motivating people, especially little people, to 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:09.160 do something that they just don't want to do? What 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.560 goes on behind making a successful TV show for a 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:18.080 commercial network and why is giving people less information instead 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:27.399 of more a better strategy for communicating. My name is 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.160 doctor amanthe Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.200 of behavioral science consultancy Inventium and this is how I 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.280 work a show about how to help you do your 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.679 best work. Something that you might have been asked in 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.040 your life is have you achieved your potential? Or if 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.160 you're a parent, perhaps you're focused on helping your kids 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.840 reach their potential. But Justin Coulson is not a fan 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.240 of the idea of potential. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.400 A while ago, I was driving past a scoo and 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.360 there was this beautiful sign with a smiling child who 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.600 was looking like they were just living their best life. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.200 And underneath the sign out to the front of the school, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.720 it said helping your child achieve their potential. And I 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.040 remember looking at my wife and saying to her, would 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:19.800 you like our children to achieve their potential? And Kylie said, yeah, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.280 I mean that sounds great. Isn't that why we send 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.040 our kids to private school? Because at the time we 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.480 were doing that. And I said, I'm just curious, honey, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.519 have you achieved your potential? And she looked at me 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.320 strangely and said, no, not yet. And I said, are 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.640 we getting this wrong? Why do we actually think that 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.840 we can that our children can achieve their potential? Achieving 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.040 your potential is one of those how long is a 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.800 piece of string kind of things. You can never actually 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.680 achieve your potential. Even when you do your best, you 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:54.440 know that you could have done better. Let's say it's 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.600 a cross country race, or a swimming race, or it's 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.320 an exam, no matter what you do, no matter how 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.680 you review the presentation you just delivered, or I mean 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:05.400 you pick it. Whatever it is that you do for work, 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.400 you might be laying bricks, no matter how well you 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.079 lay those bricks, no matter how were you cut that hair, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.640 no matter how were you put the brass in for 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.079 the plumbing for the water to travel. I don't care 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.720 what it is. There's always going to be something that 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.480 you could do just that little bit better. I don't 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.400 know that we ever actually achieve our potential. And the 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.840 idea that we're going to, I feel feeds into the 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:34.280 anxiety riven, perfectionistic culture that we're creating that's so harmful 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.400 for our families, so harmful for our children, and frankly 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.960 so harmful for us. Just when I see helping your 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.040 children live up to their potential, now I want to 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.040 kind of tear the sign down and say, can they 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.800 just be kids? Can we just have a family where 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.119 we like, if I go to the beach this afternoon 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:51.880 with my kids. I lived near the coast, right, So 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.320 when I pick the kids up from school, if I 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.520 take them down to the beach, have I failed them 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.560 because they're not living up to their potential this afternoon 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:00.480 because we're lounging around on the beach and swinging in 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:07.480 the waves. I mean that we have this always on optimizing, maximizing, 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.680 fulfilling potential mindset that has helped us to get to 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.160 the moon and have jet travel and genetically modified foods 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.240 and all of the things that make life better or worse, 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.680 depending on what your perspective might be. And yet I 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.240 think that we're actually missing out on what life really 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.240 is about. I'm not convinced that life has to be 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.680 constantly about fulfilling our potential. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.279 It's a good segue into talking about motivation. I think 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.799 I know that we're both fans of self determination theory. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.000 That's one of my favorite theories of motivation. Tell me 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:43.839 how you think about motivation, and particularly when you're trying 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.320 to motivate your own kids to do something that they 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.400 don't want to do. And I'm sort of asking for 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.880 myself here I'm keen to hear what you do. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.480 Justin now you need to remind me how old your beauty. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.720 I've got an eight year old daughter, eight year old 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:06.160 daughter who there are many things that she enjoys that 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.159 like doing her times tables, would not be on that 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:12.160 least I would. 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.240 Say, yeah, yeah, well there's a handful of things here. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.600 So let's actually dive into self determination theory because it 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:25.159 is consistently the theory that has the most abundant and 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.240 practical body of evidence supporting it. And while there hasn't 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.760 been a lot of work done with self determination theory 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.040 and parenting in comparison to organizational behavior and so on, 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.960 what is there is profound and impactful. So the first 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.039 thing is that self determination theory, for those who are 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:46.320 not familiar with this concept, is a psychological idea that 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.719 was developed back in the nineteen seventies by ed DC 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.320 and Rich Ryan at the University of Rochester and Upstate 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.160 New York. It's about an hour away from Niagara Falls. Beautiful, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.159 beautiful place and so much around there. Anyway, ed DC 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:02.120 and Rich Ryan identify that when it comes to motivation, 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.679 there are three what they call psychological nutriments or basic 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.920 psychological needs that we each have, and when those needs 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.240 are met, our motivation increases, and so too does our 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.000 well being. When those needs are not met, our motivation decreases, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.159 and so to does our well being. The first of 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.760 those is relatedness, a sense of belonging, knowing that you matter. 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.120 The idea of relatedness kind of When I think of relatedness, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.839 I think of connection. And Brene Brown defines connection in 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.760 rising strong, in such succinct and sublime terms. She says, 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:44.000 connection is feeling seen, heard, and valued. When we're in 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.279 a relationship where we don't feel seen, heard or valued, 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.960 we don't have any connection. Therefore, we don't really have 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.719 a relationship. But when we're in a relationship where those 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.960 things exist, it's powerful. It's just incredible. So from a 0:06:55.040 --> 0:07:00.200 child's perspective, let's talk about the times tables. If we, 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.880 as a parent are focused on what I would what 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.480 I would call correction and direction, which rhyme with connection, 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.240 but they do very different things. If our focus is 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.160 on correction and direction, what we end up doing is 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:20.800 we we become coercive. We become the manipulative, cajoling parent 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.400 who's saying you need to do this. Why haven't you 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.240 done this already? No, not like that? Like this? How 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:26.600 many times do I have to ask you? If this 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.480 is the first, though it's a thousand, and we kind 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.680 of we flip out a little bit. What that does 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.480 to the relationship is devastating. If you're an eight year 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.920 old girl or a two year old toddler, or a 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.080 seventeen year old boy who is desperate to be seen, 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.880 hurd and valued, to feel like he matters and belongs 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:50.400 and is part of that fundamental unit of what our 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.800 society has become, that nuclear family. If he doesn't feel seen, 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.080 hurd or valued, if all that matters is the grade 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.080 or the capacity to get through those seven times tables, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:02.960 because an eight year old should know their seven year 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.800 old there's seven times tables by now, Then all of 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.640 a sudden, the relationship shifts. It doesn't become about people, 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:14.600 It becomes about things like times tables, or dishes or 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:19.680 tidy rooms. And Amantha, if life let alone self determination theory. 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.560 If life has taught me anything is that people matter, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:27.040 things don't. When I think about how I would help 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.600 my eight year old daughter to do her times tables, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:36.320 it would be together, because it's motivating to do something 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.600 with someone I had an experience the other day. Actually, 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:39.760 let me go through the other two things and then 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.800 I'll share the experience. The second basic psychological need that 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.360 DC and Ryan identified is competence. Competence, Now you think 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.840 about it when you start a new job and you 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.600 don't you know what it's like. You go through orientation. You 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.599 show up at the workplace. They sit you down and 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.080 they say, okay, this is where you're going to be working. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.480 Toilets are over there, I'll, by the way, meet and 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.080 I'd like you to meet Jenny, and this is Sue. 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:04.679 And they go through the fifteen people that you're going 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.040 to be working with and you meet them all and 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:07.680 shake their hands or you fist pump them or whatever 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.840 you do in these COVID dish sort of times. And 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.200 then they say, and before we do any of this, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.319 here's the orientation video. There's three hours of orientation content 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.160 for you. And this is the payroll slip. You log 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.600 on here, you'll put your password in and then you 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.840 feel in these things, but not those ones, only these ones, 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.120 and la da da da. And the orientation process takes 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.400 let's say a day or half a day, and you 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.240 show up the next day for work and you're ready 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.960 right like, do you remember how you have to go 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:37.640 and ask somebody, how do I feel in the pay 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.400 slip again? I mean, this is the most important part 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.200 of working. You're going to there to get paid and 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.160 you don't even know how to fill a pay slip 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.360 in You feel completely incompetent. You don't know how to 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.319 open the toilet door, you don't remember anybody's names. You 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.560 kind of all over the place. And when our children 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.240 are growing the majority of their lives, they feel incompetent. 0:09:55.400 --> 0:10:01.160 We put them into a standardized, structured I'm going to 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.720 use the term that Todd Rose in his book Dark 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.400 Horse uses. He talks about this standardization, the standardized covenant 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.760 that we make with everyone else in society, that where 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.800 our children will follow a standardized path from the time 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.640 that they're entering school at age four or five right 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.760 through until pick whatever time you want. But it's later 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.000 on in life and they finally retire at sixty five 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.160 and say, what do I do with my life because 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.520 I followed the standardized covenant. As our children go through 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:36.400 this progression through the school years, they feel incompetent most 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.640 of the day. Most days as teachers, continue to pile 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.200 on the work and pile on everything else. And so 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.240 when we're sitting down at home, we're saying, all right, kid, oh, 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.079 it's sign for a second shift. I know you've already 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.679 done six hours to day, but let's do some timetables. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.680 They've already felt incompetent all day, and now they're feeling 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.520 incompetent again. Our job as parents is to help them 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.480 to feel competent, otherwise they're not going to be motivated. 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.199 And you know what it's like, if you've ever work 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.600 with anyone who's struggling, the words out of their mouth 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.959 will be I can't. And with that sense of I 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:14.600 can't incompetence in capacity, there's this diminished motivation and there's 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.199 a sense of hopelessness, foreboding this is too hard, I 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.840 can't do it. So that's the second basic psychological need. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.000 So when you're sitting down with your precious eight year 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:27.560 old and you say it's time to do times tables, 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.920 you do the times tables while I'll prepare dinner. Number one, 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.760 there's no sense of relatedness because we're not in a 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.120 relationship here together. You why I'm in one room, you're 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:38.599 in the other room, or even if we're across the 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.880 kitchen bench, we're not really engaging with one another. And 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.280 there's this sense of incompetence. And the third challenge that 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.840 we have, and this is the biggest to me, the 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.200 psychological need that's most important of all, is this sense 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:55.320 of autonomy. That is, am I a volitional agent or 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.640 actor in my own life? Or am I just being 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.480 pushed from pillar to post and doing what everyone else 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.000 tells me to? Am I under control? Or am I 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.360 actually getting to choose to control myself? And when it 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:10.720 comes to kids and motivation, wow, we just constantly I 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:12.840 don't know that there's any data on this, but I 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:14.600 reckon if we as parents were to just make a 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.320 little note on a scratchpad every time we gave our 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.199 children some correction or direction, every time we told them 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.679 what to do, I think that we would probably do it. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.120 I don't know, what do you reckon? Ten twenty thirty 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.680 times an hour, forty times an hour, forty times a 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:34.960 minute sometimes. So with all of that as backdrop, that's 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.000 the theory in a nutshell. So in a very basic way, 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.800 the other day, I'm in the garden, I'm picking up leaves, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.800 We've just moved from one and a quarter acres to 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.000 eight hundred square meters. On the one and a quarter acres, 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.520 I didn't worry about the leaves, but now I've got 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.839 eight hundred square meters, it feels doable. And I like 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.840 my lawn looking nice, and the trees is dropping some 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.360 leaves and there's just one little area where all these 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.640 leaves land. And I figured it's something going to take 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.560 me three minutes. I can pick these leaves up. And 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.800 then I thought, hang on, I've got kids. They should 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.640 be helping me pick up these leaves. So I called 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.040 out to my twelve year old and my eight year 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.480 old Emily. Lily come here. Now, Lily's twelve. She came 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.960 out and I said, hey, kiddo, I'm picking up some leaves. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.080 Will you join me? And, like any self respecting twelve 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.200 year old, she rolled her eyes and went, oh, but 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.160 she came over. I don't know. She knew that I 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.600 had that expectation, and she's big enough to regulate herself well, 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.240 and she came over and started helping to pick up 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.720 the leaves. Emily came out and saw what I was asking, 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.520 and she said, that's not fair. I hate picking up 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.080 leaves and had a big tan from right on the spot. 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.920 I couldn't believe it. So I made a decision because 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.200 my relationship with her matters. People matter, things don't, and 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.920 because I wondered whether she just felt like I don't 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.120 think confidence was an issue, but I certainly thought that 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.719 autonomy was an issue. I thought to myself, I'm not 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.559 going to say anything. I'm just going to keep on 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.240 picking up the leaves with Lily. Well, Emily disappeared, and 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.680 I have a rule most parents, when they asked their 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.679 children to do something, if they don't get response within 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.120 about ten seconds, they ask again, and then they give 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.719 them about five seconds they ask again. I have a 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.040 rule that I try my very hardest not to ask 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.800 for about five minutes. So I gave it what I 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.440 thought was going to be five minutes. But about a 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.480 minute later, Emily walked back out of the front of 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.600 the house and walked over to me, and she started 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.760 picking up leaves. She was in a bit of a 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.120 bad mood about it, but she just came over and helped. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:25.560 And then I had this idea, I'm going to go 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.840 and grab the rake. So I went and got the 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.160 rake and started to rake some leaves, and Emily said, 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.960 can I do that? Now? Emily doesn't know how to 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.600 use a rake, and there's all sorts of bush, chip 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:37.520 and soil that's going to get moved all over the place. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.000 And I knew that she was going to make a mess, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.800 but I handed it at the rake and let it 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.320 go for it. And Lily wanted to step in and say, no, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.920 you're making a mess, You're doing it wrong. And I said, Lily, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.880 she only learns if she's got the opportunity. And if 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.480 I keep on telling how incompetent she is, she's going 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.320 to lose motivation. And so Emily within about three minutes, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.360 had figured out how to use the rake with any 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.640 instruction at all. She's figured it out. And then she 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.240 started to tidy up the mess that she'd made in 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.200 the first three minutes. And within about five minutes all 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.480 of the leaves were done. And how the kids they 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.680 were playing and they were laughing. They love being in 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:17.840 our space. If we unpack that story, what is really 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.160 going on here is we've got a sense of belonging, 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.520 a sense of relatedness. The kids were together with me. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.440 I didn't send them out into the yard to do it. 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.960 We were doing it together. And that's how ancient tribes 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.400 used to work with their children. They didn't say, hey, 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.920 go over there and hunt the lion. They'd say, let's 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.600 go on a lion hunting trip, or don't let's forage together. 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.840 They didn't send the kids off one hundred yards down, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.160 the one hundred meters down or a kilometer down the road. 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.000 So they went and foraged together. They don't send one 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:47.960 person to get water. They all go to get the water. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.720 So there's that belonging. But there's also the competence in 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.360 that our kids have got to do stuff for themselves 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.000 and learn for themselves. The more we are teaching them, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.840 the less competent they feel, and the more anxious they 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:03.680 are that they've got to be perfect, that they can't 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.000 measure up, that things are never that I'm no good 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.360 at do it. And so it's about backing off, not 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.520 controlling in terms of their confidence, but also about giving 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.080 them the freedom to or the autonomy to have that 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.320 inner pang of I want to be close to them 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.000 and I want to do what they're doing because they're 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.680 all having a good time. Now, screens are a disaster there. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.120 Screens will get in the way of that. So we 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.880 need to minimize screens. But other than that, that's that's 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.840 the way I'm be going. So back to the not specifically, 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.280 but perhaps a little bit helpfully working on Amantha and 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.960 eight year old times tables, it's more like, hey, let's 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.200 let's play a game. So we sit down with our 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.080 eight year old and we make it a game. We 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.880 have some fun with it, and we do it together. 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.800 We turn into a quiz, or we buy some of 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.280 those flash cards, or we pull out some Smarties or 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.360 some M and M's or whatever confectionery of choice. Maybe 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.240 maybe it's some hagues freckles, Amantha, I mean, take your pick. 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.160 But we turn it into a one game where we're 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.480 engaging with one another, where our child is choosing to 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.359 be there, and where their competence is developing because they're 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.879 with us and it's fun. That's how I would be 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:12.720 trying to do everything. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:12.800 Now. 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.080 I know life is not a game show, but our 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.480 children are little. It's not like they're out there in 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.880 the workforce. Yet some people say, oh, you know, the 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.359 real world isn't like that, and my response is, well, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.359 when they're big enough for the real world, we'll let 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.040 them deal with that, then they will actually mature and develop. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:33.240 We expect so much of our children emotionally, so much emotionally, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:39.320 much more than they're developmentally capable of providing, quite frankly, 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.360 and we expect so little of them physically, much less 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.159 than they're willing they're able to do. I love it. 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.280 I'm don't going to be definitely a flying those strategies 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.520 with my daughter. I want to talk about Parental Guidance, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.400 which was the TV show that the first season went 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.440 to air. I want to say in the back half 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.000 of last year, twenty twenty one, and the second season 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.840 is airing soon. 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.000 Yeah. I can't give you exact details. The programming people 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.360 at Channel Mine won't allow me to do that, but 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.879 in the second half of twenty twenty two is probably 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:14.679 the best I can give you. 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.119 Amazing. For those that didn't see Parental Guidance, can you, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.320 in a nutshell describe what that show was about. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.760 Yeah, we got a whole lot of different parents who 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.399 acknowledged that their parenting styles are quite different. So we 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.240 had helicopter parents, and we had tiger parents, and we 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.120 had free range parents, and we had nature parents who 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.880 were literally living in a tent. We had a single 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.000 mum who was a homeschool parent. We had a couple 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.960 of dads who were routine parents. We had two school 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.760 teachers who were the disciplined parents. We had a Baptist 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.720 minister and his wife they were the strict parents. And 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.960 so all of these, I mean, let's be honest, these 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.399 parenting styles are made for TV. In a lot of 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.639 there's some research evidence for some of these styles, but 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.800 for the most part, they just made for TV media 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.520 oriented styles. But there are different ways that all of 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.639 us raise our kids. And so we got each of 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.879 these families to do a whole lot of different challenges 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.600 and then something that you never see on any other 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.760 television show ever, so reality TV. Normally people get it 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.480 all recorded and then that's it. That's all they do. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.560 And then the people in post production put this TV 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.960 show together and they craft these narratives and get to 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.440 say whatever they want to about those people in the show. Really, 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.159 what we do in Parental Guidance is we sit in 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.960 a studio with all of those parents and we watch 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.439 their challenges back and then we have kind of like 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.600 this big roundtable discussion with what was ten sets of 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.119 parents about what they saw those parents do or what 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.639 those parents did and what worked and what didn't. It 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.760 actually becomes a little bit of a let's sit down 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.719 and tease apart how we're parenting, and let's take criticism 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.800 and judgment and let's take the good with the bad 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:55.720 and see how we can improve the way we raise 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.040 our kids. So that's what parental guidance is all about. 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.080 And I was the parenting expert. I am the parenting 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:01.960 expert and co host on the. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.880 Show I'd love to know for you making a show 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.680 about parenting that's on Free Too Wear TV and it's 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.000 watched by lots and lots of people, Like, what were 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.240 some of the biggest things that you learned in that. 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.520 First series where you know, it. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.080 Was this whole new experience for you, Like outside of anything, 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.520 you learned about the different kinds of parents and the 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:24.639 parenting styles. 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:26.960 For you personally as someone that. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.160 Like your normal day to day work is doing things 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.280 like writing and keynote speaking and the Happy Families podcast, 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:36.680 what were some of the biggest things that you learned 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:37.680 from that experience. 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:44.040 Amantha, this might sound really obvious, but what I saw 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:50.359 was just how much these parents love their kids. And 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.400