1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Good parenting is a pretty tricky idea to talk about, 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: especially in the age of social media. Even with the 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: mountain of books about parenting, it still feels like you're 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: throwing into the deep end when you first become a parent, 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: and then every moment in your children's lives makes you 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: feel like you're starting all over again. Parenting a toddler, 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: between a teenager and even an adult can feel like 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: diving in the deep end every single year. If parenting 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: feels like a full time job, imagine how doctor Justin 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: Coulson feels. Not only is he the father of six daughters, 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: but he's also one of Australia's most trusted parenting experts. 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: He's the author of a slew of successful parenting books, 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: the host of The Happy Family's podcast, and co host 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: of Channel nine's Parental Guidance. 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: Vice. 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: Does Justin have about motivating people, especially little people, to 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: do something that they just don't want to do? What 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: goes on behind making a successful TV show for a 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: commercial network and why is giving people less information instead 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: of more a better strategy for communicating. My name is 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: doctor amanthe Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 22 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: of behavioral science consultancy Inventium and this is how I 23 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your 24 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: best work. Something that you might have been asked in 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: your life is have you achieved your potential? Or if 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: you're a parent, perhaps you're focused on helping your kids 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: reach their potential. But Justin Coulson is not a fan 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: of the idea of potential. 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: A while ago, I was driving past a scoo and 30 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: there was this beautiful sign with a smiling child who 31 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: was looking like they were just living their best life. 32 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: And underneath the sign out to the front of the school, 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: it said helping your child achieve their potential. And I 34 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: remember looking at my wife and saying to her, would 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: you like our children to achieve their potential? And Kylie said, yeah, 36 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: I mean that sounds great. Isn't that why we send 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: our kids to private school? Because at the time we 38 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: were doing that. And I said, I'm just curious, honey, 39 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 2: have you achieved your potential? And she looked at me 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: strangely and said, no, not yet. And I said, are 41 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: we getting this wrong? Why do we actually think that 42 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: we can that our children can achieve their potential? Achieving 43 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: your potential is one of those how long is a 44 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 2: piece of string kind of things. You can never actually 45 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: achieve your potential. Even when you do your best, you 46 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: know that you could have done better. Let's say it's 47 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: a cross country race, or a swimming race, or it's 48 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: an exam, no matter what you do, no matter how 49 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: you review the presentation you just delivered, or I mean 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: you pick it. Whatever it is that you do for work, 51 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: you might be laying bricks, no matter how well you 52 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: lay those bricks, no matter how were you cut that hair, 53 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: no matter how were you put the brass in for 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: the plumbing for the water to travel. I don't care 55 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: what it is. There's always going to be something that 56 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: you could do just that little bit better. I don't 57 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: know that we ever actually achieve our potential. And the 58 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: idea that we're going to, I feel feeds into the 59 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: anxiety riven, perfectionistic culture that we're creating that's so harmful 60 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: for our families, so harmful for our children, and frankly 61 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: so harmful for us. Just when I see helping your 62 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: children live up to their potential, now I want to 63 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: kind of tear the sign down and say, can they 64 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: just be kids? Can we just have a family where 65 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 2: we like, if I go to the beach this afternoon 66 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: with my kids. I lived near the coast, right, So 67 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: when I pick the kids up from school, if I 68 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: take them down to the beach, have I failed them 69 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: because they're not living up to their potential this afternoon 70 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: because we're lounging around on the beach and swinging in 71 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: the waves. I mean that we have this always on optimizing, maximizing, 72 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 2: fulfilling potential mindset that has helped us to get to 73 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: the moon and have jet travel and genetically modified foods 74 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: and all of the things that make life better or worse, 75 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: depending on what your perspective might be. And yet I 76 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: think that we're actually missing out on what life really 77 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: is about. I'm not convinced that life has to be 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: constantly about fulfilling our potential. 79 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: It's a good segue into talking about motivation. I think 80 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 1: I know that we're both fans of self determination theory. 81 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite theories of motivation. Tell me 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: how you think about motivation, and particularly when you're trying 83 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: to motivate your own kids to do something that they 84 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: don't want to do. And I'm sort of asking for 85 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: myself here I'm keen to hear what you do. 86 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: Justin now you need to remind me how old your beauty. 87 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: I've got an eight year old daughter, eight year old 88 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: daughter who there are many things that she enjoys that 89 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: like doing her times tables, would not be on that 90 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: least I would. 91 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: Say, yeah, yeah, well there's a handful of things here. 92 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 2: So let's actually dive into self determination theory because it 93 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: is consistently the theory that has the most abundant and 94 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: practical body of evidence supporting it. And while there hasn't 95 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: been a lot of work done with self determination theory 96 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: and parenting in comparison to organizational behavior and so on, 97 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: what is there is profound and impactful. So the first 98 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 2: thing is that self determination theory, for those who are 99 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: not familiar with this concept, is a psychological idea that 100 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: was developed back in the nineteen seventies by ed DC 101 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: and Rich Ryan at the University of Rochester and Upstate 102 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 2: New York. It's about an hour away from Niagara Falls. Beautiful, 103 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 2: beautiful place and so much around there. Anyway, ed DC 104 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 2: and Rich Ryan identify that when it comes to motivation, 105 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 2: there are three what they call psychological nutriments or basic 106 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: psychological needs that we each have, and when those needs 107 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: are met, our motivation increases, and so too does our 108 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: well being. When those needs are not met, our motivation decreases, 109 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 2: and so to does our well being. The first of 110 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: those is relatedness, a sense of belonging, knowing that you matter. 111 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: The idea of relatedness kind of When I think of relatedness, 112 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: I think of connection. And Brene Brown defines connection in 113 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: rising strong, in such succinct and sublime terms. She says, 114 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: connection is feeling seen, heard, and valued. When we're in 115 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: a relationship where we don't feel seen, heard or valued, 116 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: we don't have any connection. Therefore, we don't really have 117 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: a relationship. But when we're in a relationship where those 118 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: things exist, it's powerful. It's just incredible. So from a 119 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: child's perspective, let's talk about the times tables. If we, 120 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: as a parent are focused on what I would what 121 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: I would call correction and direction, which rhyme with connection, 122 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: but they do very different things. If our focus is 123 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: on correction and direction, what we end up doing is 124 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: we we become coercive. We become the manipulative, cajoling parent 125 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: who's saying you need to do this. Why haven't you 126 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: done this already? No, not like that? Like this? How 127 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: many times do I have to ask you? If this 128 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: is the first, though it's a thousand, and we kind 129 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: of we flip out a little bit. What that does 130 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: to the relationship is devastating. If you're an eight year 131 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: old girl or a two year old toddler, or a 132 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: seventeen year old boy who is desperate to be seen, 133 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: hurd and valued, to feel like he matters and belongs 134 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: and is part of that fundamental unit of what our 135 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: society has become, that nuclear family. If he doesn't feel seen, 136 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: hurd or valued, if all that matters is the grade 137 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: or the capacity to get through those seven times tables, 138 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: because an eight year old should know their seven year 139 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: old there's seven times tables by now, Then all of 140 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: a sudden, the relationship shifts. It doesn't become about people, 141 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: It becomes about things like times tables, or dishes or 142 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: tidy rooms. And Amantha, if life let alone self determination theory. 143 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: If life has taught me anything is that people matter, 144 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: things don't. When I think about how I would help 145 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: my eight year old daughter to do her times tables, 146 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: it would be together, because it's motivating to do something 147 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: with someone I had an experience the other day. Actually, 148 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: let me go through the other two things and then 149 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: I'll share the experience. The second basic psychological need that 150 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: DC and Ryan identified is competence. Competence, Now you think 151 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: about it when you start a new job and you 152 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: don't you know what it's like. You go through orientation. You 153 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,599 Speaker 2: show up at the workplace. They sit you down and 154 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: they say, okay, this is where you're going to be working. 155 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: Toilets are over there, I'll, by the way, meet and 156 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: I'd like you to meet Jenny, and this is Sue. 157 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: And they go through the fifteen people that you're going 158 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: to be working with and you meet them all and 159 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: shake their hands or you fist pump them or whatever 160 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: you do in these COVID dish sort of times. And 161 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 2: then they say, and before we do any of this, 162 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 2: here's the orientation video. There's three hours of orientation content 163 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: for you. And this is the payroll slip. You log 164 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: on here, you'll put your password in and then you 165 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: feel in these things, but not those ones, only these ones, 166 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: and la da da da. And the orientation process takes 167 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: let's say a day or half a day, and you 168 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: show up the next day for work and you're ready 169 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: right like, do you remember how you have to go 170 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: and ask somebody, how do I feel in the pay 171 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: slip again? I mean, this is the most important part 172 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: of working. You're going to there to get paid and 173 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: you don't even know how to fill a pay slip 174 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: in You feel completely incompetent. You don't know how to 175 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 2: open the toilet door, you don't remember anybody's names. You 176 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: kind of all over the place. And when our children 177 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: are growing the majority of their lives, they feel incompetent. 178 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: We put them into a standardized, structured I'm going to 179 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: use the term that Todd Rose in his book Dark 180 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: Horse uses. He talks about this standardization, the standardized covenant 181 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: that we make with everyone else in society, that where 182 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: our children will follow a standardized path from the time 183 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: that they're entering school at age four or five right 184 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: through until pick whatever time you want. But it's later 185 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: on in life and they finally retire at sixty five 186 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 2: and say, what do I do with my life because 187 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: I followed the standardized covenant. As our children go through 188 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: this progression through the school years, they feel incompetent most 189 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: of the day. Most days as teachers, continue to pile 190 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: on the work and pile on everything else. And so 191 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: when we're sitting down at home, we're saying, all right, kid, oh, 192 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 2: it's sign for a second shift. I know you've already 193 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 2: done six hours to day, but let's do some timetables. 194 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: They've already felt incompetent all day, and now they're feeling 195 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: incompetent again. Our job as parents is to help them 196 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: to feel competent, otherwise they're not going to be motivated. 197 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 2: And you know what it's like, if you've ever work 198 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: with anyone who's struggling, the words out of their mouth 199 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 2: will be I can't. And with that sense of I 200 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: can't incompetence in capacity, there's this diminished motivation and there's 201 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 2: a sense of hopelessness, foreboding this is too hard, I 202 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 2: can't do it. So that's the second basic psychological need. 203 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: So when you're sitting down with your precious eight year 204 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: old and you say it's time to do times tables, 205 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: you do the times tables while I'll prepare dinner. Number one, 206 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: there's no sense of relatedness because we're not in a 207 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: relationship here together. You why I'm in one room, you're 208 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 2: in the other room, or even if we're across the 209 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: kitchen bench, we're not really engaging with one another. And 210 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: there's this sense of incompetence. And the third challenge that 211 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: we have, and this is the biggest to me, the 212 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: psychological need that's most important of all, is this sense 213 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 2: of autonomy. That is, am I a volitional agent or 214 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: actor in my own life? Or am I just being 215 00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: pushed from pillar to post and doing what everyone else 216 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: tells me to? Am I under control? Or am I 217 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: actually getting to choose to control myself? And when it 218 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 2: comes to kids and motivation, wow, we just constantly I 219 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: don't know that there's any data on this, but I 220 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: reckon if we as parents were to just make a 221 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: little note on a scratchpad every time we gave our 222 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 2: children some correction or direction, every time we told them 223 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 2: what to do, I think that we would probably do it. 224 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you reckon? Ten twenty thirty 225 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 2: times an hour, forty times an hour, forty times a 226 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: minute sometimes. So with all of that as backdrop, that's 227 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: the theory in a nutshell. So in a very basic way, 228 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: the other day, I'm in the garden, I'm picking up leaves, 229 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: We've just moved from one and a quarter acres to 230 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: eight hundred square meters. On the one and a quarter acres, 231 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: I didn't worry about the leaves, but now I've got 232 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 2: eight hundred square meters, it feels doable. And I like 233 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: my lawn looking nice, and the trees is dropping some 234 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: leaves and there's just one little area where all these 235 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: leaves land. And I figured it's something going to take 236 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: me three minutes. I can pick these leaves up. And 237 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: then I thought, hang on, I've got kids. They should 238 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: be helping me pick up these leaves. So I called 239 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: out to my twelve year old and my eight year 240 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: old Emily. Lily come here. Now, Lily's twelve. She came 241 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 2: out and I said, hey, kiddo, I'm picking up some leaves. 242 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: Will you join me? And, like any self respecting twelve 243 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 2: year old, she rolled her eyes and went, oh, but 244 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: she came over. I don't know. She knew that I 245 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: had that expectation, and she's big enough to regulate herself well, 246 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: and she came over and started helping to pick up 247 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: the leaves. Emily came out and saw what I was asking, 248 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: and she said, that's not fair. I hate picking up 249 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 2: leaves and had a big tan from right on the spot. 250 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. So I made a decision because 251 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 2: my relationship with her matters. People matter, things don't, and 252 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: because I wondered whether she just felt like I don't 253 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: think confidence was an issue, but I certainly thought that 254 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 2: autonomy was an issue. I thought to myself, I'm not 255 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 2: going to say anything. I'm just going to keep on 256 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: picking up the leaves with Lily. Well, Emily disappeared, and 257 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 2: I have a rule most parents, when they asked their 258 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 2: children to do something, if they don't get response within 259 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: about ten seconds, they ask again, and then they give 260 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 2: them about five seconds they ask again. I have a 261 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: rule that I try my very hardest not to ask 262 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: for about five minutes. So I gave it what I 263 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: thought was going to be five minutes. But about a 264 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: minute later, Emily walked back out of the front of 265 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: the house and walked over to me, and she started 266 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: picking up leaves. She was in a bit of a 267 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: bad mood about it, but she just came over and helped. 268 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: And then I had this idea, I'm going to go 269 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: and grab the rake. So I went and got the 270 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: rake and started to rake some leaves, and Emily said, 271 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: can I do that? Now? Emily doesn't know how to 272 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: use a rake, and there's all sorts of bush, chip 273 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: and soil that's going to get moved all over the place. 274 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: And I knew that she was going to make a mess, 275 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: but I handed it at the rake and let it 276 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: go for it. And Lily wanted to step in and say, no, 277 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: you're making a mess, You're doing it wrong. And I said, Lily, 278 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: she only learns if she's got the opportunity. And if 279 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: I keep on telling how incompetent she is, she's going 280 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: to lose motivation. And so Emily within about three minutes, 281 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: had figured out how to use the rake with any 282 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: instruction at all. She's figured it out. And then she 283 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: started to tidy up the mess that she'd made in 284 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: the first three minutes. And within about five minutes all 285 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: of the leaves were done. And how the kids they 286 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 2: were playing and they were laughing. They love being in 287 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: our space. If we unpack that story, what is really 288 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: going on here is we've got a sense of belonging, 289 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: a sense of relatedness. The kids were together with me. 290 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: I didn't send them out into the yard to do it. 291 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: We were doing it together. And that's how ancient tribes 292 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: used to work with their children. They didn't say, hey, 293 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: go over there and hunt the lion. They'd say, let's 294 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: go on a lion hunting trip, or don't let's forage together. 295 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: They didn't send the kids off one hundred yards down, 296 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: the one hundred meters down or a kilometer down the road. 297 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: So they went and foraged together. They don't send one 298 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: person to get water. They all go to get the water. 299 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: So there's that belonging. But there's also the competence in 300 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: that our kids have got to do stuff for themselves 301 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: and learn for themselves. The more we are teaching them, 302 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: the less competent they feel, and the more anxious they 303 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: are that they've got to be perfect, that they can't 304 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: measure up, that things are never that I'm no good 305 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: at do it. And so it's about backing off, not 306 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: controlling in terms of their confidence, but also about giving 307 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: them the freedom to or the autonomy to have that 308 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: inner pang of I want to be close to them 309 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: and I want to do what they're doing because they're 310 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: all having a good time. Now, screens are a disaster there. 311 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: Screens will get in the way of that. So we 312 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: need to minimize screens. But other than that, that's that's 313 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: the way I'm be going. So back to the not specifically, 314 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: but perhaps a little bit helpfully working on Amantha and 315 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: eight year old times tables, it's more like, hey, let's 316 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: let's play a game. So we sit down with our 317 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: eight year old and we make it a game. We 318 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: have some fun with it, and we do it together. 319 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: We turn into a quiz, or we buy some of 320 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: those flash cards, or we pull out some Smarties or 321 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: some M and M's or whatever confectionery of choice. Maybe 322 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: maybe it's some hagues freckles, Amantha, I mean, take your pick. 323 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: But we turn it into a one game where we're 324 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: engaging with one another, where our child is choosing to 325 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: be there, and where their competence is developing because they're 326 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 2: with us and it's fun. That's how I would be 327 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: trying to do everything. 328 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: Now. 329 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: I know life is not a game show, but our 330 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 2: children are little. It's not like they're out there in 331 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 2: the workforce. Yet some people say, oh, you know, the 332 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 2: real world isn't like that, and my response is, well, 333 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 2: when they're big enough for the real world, we'll let 334 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: them deal with that, then they will actually mature and develop. 335 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 2: We expect so much of our children emotionally, so much emotionally, 336 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: much more than they're developmentally capable of providing, quite frankly, 337 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 2: and we expect so little of them physically, much less 338 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 2: than they're willing they're able to do. I love it. 339 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: I'm don't going to be definitely a flying those strategies 340 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: with my daughter. I want to talk about Parental Guidance, 341 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: which was the TV show that the first season went 342 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: to air. I want to say in the back half 343 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: of last year, twenty twenty one, and the second season 344 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: is airing soon. 345 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't give you exact details. The programming people 346 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 2: at Channel Mine won't allow me to do that, but 347 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 2: in the second half of twenty twenty two is probably 348 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 2: the best I can give you. 349 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: Amazing. For those that didn't see Parental Guidance, can you, 350 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: in a nutshell describe what that show was about. 351 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a whole lot of different parents who 352 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 2: acknowledged that their parenting styles are quite different. So we 353 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 2: had helicopter parents, and we had tiger parents, and we 354 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 2: had free range parents, and we had nature parents who 355 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 2: were literally living in a tent. We had a single 356 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: mum who was a homeschool parent. We had a couple 357 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: of dads who were routine parents. We had two school 358 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: teachers who were the disciplined parents. We had a Baptist 359 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: minister and his wife they were the strict parents. And 360 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: so all of these, I mean, let's be honest, these 361 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 2: parenting styles are made for TV. In a lot of 362 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 2: there's some research evidence for some of these styles, but 363 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 2: for the most part, they just made for TV media 364 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: oriented styles. But there are different ways that all of 365 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 2: us raise our kids. And so we got each of 366 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 2: these families to do a whole lot of different challenges 367 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: and then something that you never see on any other 368 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: television show ever, so reality TV. Normally people get it 369 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 2: all recorded and then that's it. That's all they do. 370 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: And then the people in post production put this TV 371 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: show together and they craft these narratives and get to 372 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: say whatever they want to about those people in the show. Really, 373 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 2: what we do in Parental Guidance is we sit in 374 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: a studio with all of those parents and we watch 375 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: their challenges back and then we have kind of like 376 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: this big roundtable discussion with what was ten sets of 377 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: parents about what they saw those parents do or what 378 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: those parents did and what worked and what didn't. It 379 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: actually becomes a little bit of a let's sit down 380 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 2: and tease apart how we're parenting, and let's take criticism 381 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: and judgment and let's take the good with the bad 382 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: and see how we can improve the way we raise 383 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: our kids. So that's what parental guidance is all about. 384 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: And I was the parenting expert. I am the parenting 385 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: expert and co host on the. 386 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: Show I'd love to know for you making a show 387 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: about parenting that's on Free Too Wear TV and it's 388 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: watched by lots and lots of people, Like, what were 389 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: some of the biggest things that you learned in that. 390 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: First series where you know, it. 391 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: Was this whole new experience for you, Like outside of anything, 392 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: you learned about the different kinds of parents and the 393 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: parenting styles. 394 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: For you personally as someone that. 395 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: Like your normal day to day work is doing things 396 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: like writing and keynote speaking and the Happy Families podcast, 397 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: what were some of the biggest things that you learned 398 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: from that experience. 399 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: Amantha, this might sound really obvious, but what I saw 400 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 2: was just how much these parents love their kids. And 401 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 2: I know everyone knows. Everyone says, I love my kids 402 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: like crazy, But we don't have these kinds of conversations 403 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: in our society in any meaningful way. In any other forum, 404 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: I've not seen people sit around and talk about parenting, 405 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: the good and the bad, and literally talk about the 406 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: way other people are raising their children in a constructive way. 407 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 2: It was just extraordinary to see the love that they 408 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 2: have for their kids, the complete dedication they have to 409 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: raising children well. But the other thing that I learned 410 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: is that you can have hard conversations with people who 411 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: see the world differently to you and make them productive 412 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 2: and constructive, make them helpful, and even make them entertaining. 413 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 2: I was just amazed at how the show went. It 414 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 2: was such an eye opening experience for me. 415 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: We will be back with Justin soon where he unpacks 416 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: what he now applies unconsciously to be such an effective communicator. 417 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 418 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 419 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 420 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 421 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: three to interesting research findings. You can sign up for 422 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot code. That's how I work dot co. 423 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: If you were to unpack some of the things that 424 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: perhaps you unconsciously do and to think about consciously what 425 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: they are, because like you speak so well, you're such 426 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: a great storyteller, You're so succinct and just clear with 427 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: what you're saying. I've been struck by that on the 428 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, on the conversations that we've had. What's going 429 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: on in the background to do that, or what are 430 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: the rituals or practices that you've adopted to get to 431 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: be so good? Like for example, I remember I had 432 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: Sandra Sally on the show a couple of years ago 433 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: now and something that struck me. It's like she's been 434 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,120 Speaker 1: reading the news for I think three decades or something 435 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: like that, and she will still quite regularly watch herself 436 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: back And I was really struck by that and surprised, 437 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: but in a very impressed way that she has that 438 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: despite the fact she's been doing it for thirty years. 439 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: So I'd love to know what do you do justin 440 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 2: the first thing is that you have to know your stuff. 441 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: If you're going to stand up in front of people, 442 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 2: you have to know your stuff. And I know there's 443 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: a whole lot of people who will say, oh, imposter syndrome, 444 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: I don't know my stuff. Everyone else knows more than me. 445 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 2: I learned some years ago that we really do believe 446 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 2: that if we know something, then it's common knowledge. We 447 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: really believe that if I know it, everyone else knows 448 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 2: it as well. Over time, I've discovered that that's not 449 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 2: true at all. Your unique experience, your unique perspective, The 450 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: way that you bring information to the fore is yours. 451 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: It may be that other people have heard the same story, 452 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: or they've heard a similar concept, but know your stuff. 453 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: That's if you don't know what you're talking about. No 454 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: matter how much you do. The whole lot of how 455 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: to win friends and influence people Norman Vincent pill sort 456 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: of stuff, it won't work. People will know that it's 457 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 2: not legit. The second thing is clarity of thought. The 458 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: things that you've asked me about today, I've answered in 459 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: roundabout ways, not directly necessarily, but in roundabout ways for 460 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 2: a couple of decades now. The questions that you've asked 461 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: are about things that I've worked over in my mind 462 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: so many ways so that I can tell a cohesive 463 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 2: story craft useful narrative. The third thing that I would 464 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 2: say is to remember the power of stories when you're 465 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: trying to make an argument. Facts and research matter, but 466 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 2: when you're trying to sell an argument, and at the 467 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 2: risk of cheapening what our conversation is. Ultimately, what I'm 468 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 2: trying to do here is sell certain ideas. That is 469 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: that if we help our children feel like they matter 470 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: and belong, if they feel like they're growing incompetence and capability, 471 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: and if they're given some choice, I mean I'm selling 472 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 2: self determination theory in some way, if that makes sense. 473 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 2: The facts and figures are useful, but it's the story 474 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: that pulls people in. It's the story that creates emotion. 475 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: It's the story that helps people say, ah, I was 476 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: in that situation just the other day, and I could 477 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 2: have brought my daughter in this way, or I could 478 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 2: have gone to my son with this kind of approach. 479 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 2: So it's actually finding the stories. I remember a wonderfully 480 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: wise man once told me after he heard me give 481 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: a talk one time. He said, justin you're trying to 482 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: give everyone a PhD in sixty minutes. You can't do 483 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 2: that when you're on the stage. And I said, ah, 484 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 2: but I've just got so much stuff I want to 485 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 2: tell people. And Dave his name is Dave Staughton. And 486 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: Dave looked at me and said, justin you've got to 487 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 2: stop giving people so much stuff and give them a 488 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: whole lot more fluff. And when he said that, I 489 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: was so offended. I thought, hang on a second, I'm 490 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: not going to give people fluff. They're paying good money 491 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: for my content and I'm here to change their lives forever. 492 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 2: But as we broke it down, what he was really 493 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 2: saying is was there is some data and evidence that's important. 494 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,239 Speaker 2: That's the stuff, that's the whole PhD thing. You've got 495 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: this knowledge, you want to give it to them, Pick 496 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: three things that matter, focus on those, but then fill 497 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 2: the remainder of your time with stories, with narrative, with emotion, 498 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: with opportunities for people to connect the theory to the practice. 499 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: In other words, the stuff and the fluff. And I 500 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 2: think that maybe one other idea might be two, actually 501 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: know two more ideas because I'm making this up on 502 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: the fly. I've always found nemonics to be really useful. 503 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: People remember things when you tie it to something that's 504 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: easily memorable. For example, when it comes to discipline, my 505 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 2: three ease of effective discipline that we should explore our 506 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: child's world, Explain our expectations and empower our child to 507 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: develop appropriate boundaries and limits and solutions with our gentle support. Explore, 508 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: explain empower that's easy to remember when it comes to discipline. 509 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 2: The secrets of happiest the happiest families. Three l's love, limits, 510 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: and laughter. If you can shower your kids with love, 511 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 2: set limits effectively using those three ease, and find opportunities 512 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 2: to laugh, you're going to have a happy family. So 513 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: those kinds of things really make a difference. The last 514 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: thing probably requires another story. As a university lecturer, Amantha, 515 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: I really felt strongly after a couple of years of 516 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: lecturing that kids don't belong at UNI, and I actively 517 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 2: discourage parents from sending their kids to UNI. University is 518 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 2: a place for adults, not children. I reckon about ten 519 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: percent of year twelve graduates come to university ready for 520 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 2: what university offers. The rest of them their way to time, 521 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 2: they're wasting money, they're just trying to figure it all out, 522 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: and it's a process that they're not quite ready for. 523 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: And that's because when I went back to UNI as 524 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: a late twenties, father and husband. I wasn't interested in 525 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 2: getting through UNI. I wanted UNI to go through me. 526 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: There has to be something in our bones. There has 527 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 2: to be something that we truly believe. We have to 528 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: be completely committed to what we're saying to really convey 529 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: and get it across to other people. It's just powerful 530 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: when you know when it's in you. And when it 531 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: comes to parenting, I feel like this is the whole 532 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: reason I'm on the planet Earth. It's just why I'm here. 533 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: And the last thing is smile. It's just powerful when 534 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: we smile, Amantha, when we sound like we're happy to 535 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: actually be having the conversation. My job is not to 536 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: put you. 537 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: To sleep, definitely not doing that. I want to dig 538 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: into stories because I'm fascinated by a store worries. So 539 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: when you're let's say you're crafting a new presentation, for example, 540 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: and you know that you need to find stories to 541 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: illustrate your points in a way that makes people want 542 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: to lean in rather than just be hit with facts 543 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: and figures, how are you thinking about which stories will 544 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: fit best. 545 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: The principle is everything, So I'll think through Let's say 546 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: I'm doing something about cherishing our moments with our family, 547 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: just saying this. I'm literally making it up as we speak, 548 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 2: but I'm remembering a conversation that I had with a 549 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 2: mum when COVID began. Like everybody, I panicked, I'm trying 550 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: to run a business, and all of a sudden, I've 551 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: lost I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of 552 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 2: work just disappeared from under my nose because the country 553 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: got shut down, and I had staff to pay and 554 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 2: all kinds of stress, mortgages, children expecting food on the table. 555 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: And so I opened up my calendar, which I have 556 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: never done before, jumped onto Facebook and said, if you'd 557 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 2: like to have half an hour with me, jump in 558 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: my calendar, here's the cost, and I will give you 559 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: a parenting kickstarter. I'll give you thirty minutes of helpful 560 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 2: parenting guidance to just get you through whatever's happening in 561 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: your family right now, particularly with COVID here, and my 562 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 2: calendar filled up very, very very quickly, one by one. 563 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: I had to chat with these wonderful families, these wonderful 564 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 2: parents who just wanted to connect better with their kids. 565 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: About the fourth last interview that I did in that fortnight, 566 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 2: where this was my day to day routine, a lady 567 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 2: jumped onto our call and she explained to me that 568 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: about a year earlier, her two little girls had said 569 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: goodbye to their dad. He'd passed away unexpectedly. I can't 570 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: remember the details now, unfortunately, but he'd I think he'd 571 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 2: experienced a tragic accident on the road or something like that. 572 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: And so I expected, with that introduction to our conversation 573 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 2: that I was going to be helping her to guide 574 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: them through a difficult grieving process. So in my mind, 575 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: I'm starting to get together all of the bits and 576 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: pieces that will be helpful in my conversation with her 577 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: when she says to me, but I'm not actually talking 578 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: to you about that. I need to talk to you 579 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: because about a week ago I was given a terminal 580 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: diagnosis of cancer. Oh gosh, and now I only have 581 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: approximately eight weeks to live, and I haven't told them yet. 582 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: My two little girls are going to be orphans. And 583 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: I remember sitting on the phone thinking to her, and 584 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: you're asking me for advice, like how do I do that? 585 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: How do I help here? And we ended up having 586 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: a beautiful, beautiful conversation. It was one of the most 587 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: inspiring conversations of my life. And so if I was 588 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: to be asked to give a talk about loving your 589 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: kids or making the most of most moments, I would 590 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: go to a story like that. I mean, I haven't 591 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: thought of that story for a long long time, but 592 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: just that question, and it's prompted that. So we've all 593 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: got a back catalog of stories, and somehow something will 594 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: prompt or poke or prod a story to come out 595 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: of the recesses of our mind and we'll be able 596 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 2: to bring it to the four. What matters is that 597 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 2: it's relevant. And what I usually try to do. I've 598 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: got a fairly simple formula. It's not perfect. I'm very 599 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 2: very flexible with it. But I'll pick a topic, and 600 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: I'll pick my couple of things that need to be 601 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: said about that topic, and then I'll look for some 602 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: one evidence to a story, and then three something else 603 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: that will fill it out a little bit. So if 604 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: it was about making the most of most moments, I'd 605 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: probably do that, and then I would say, and let's 606 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 2: have a think about how many moments we have. I'm 607 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 2: just graving my calculator here as we talk here, our 608 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: children by the time they're adults. They're eighteen years old, 609 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: there are fifty two weeks in a year. We get 610 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: nine hundred and thirty six weekends with our children from 611 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: the time they're born. Oh gosh, I'm getting weepy just 612 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 2: think about it. Goes too We have nine hundred and 613 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 2: thirty six weekends with our children from the time that 614 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 2: they're born until the time that they're eighteen. Now, we're 615 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 2: going to lose a whole lot of them with birthday 616 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: parties and with school camps and with what once they're 617 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: in their teens and they've got jobs and we're not 618 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,719 Speaker 2: seeing them on the weekends. But if you've only got 619 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: nine hundred and thirty six and then you count down 620 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: how old your kids are already, how many weekends have 621 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 2: you really got left? What can you do to maximize 622 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: that time and make the most of it? And so 623 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 2: I play around with those kinds of ideas, and it's 624 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: really just about, I don't know, seeking inspiration in your 625 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: own life and in your own experience and then bringing 626 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: it into a cohesive story, something that leads people along 627 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: so that they feel that emotion, so that they imagine 628 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 2: what it would be like to walk into the house 629 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 2: and feel it empty because the kids moved out those 630 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 2: kinds of things. That's what I'm looking for. And then 631 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 2: bringing in the evidence. Here's what the research shows. If 632 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 2: we do this, this, and this with our kids, we 633 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 2: get to make the most of that and bring them 634 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 2: into a world that makes sense to them and where 635 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 2: they feel they belong and they get that enriching sense 636 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 2: of knowing that they matter. I love that. 637 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: Justin for people that want to consume more of what 638 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: you are doing in the world, what's the best way 639 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: for people to do that? 640 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 2: All roads from Google will lead to something related to me. 641 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 2: So we've got Parental Guidance Season two for the end 642 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two. Just free tow are Channel nine. 643 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 2: It's available. There's also a podcast, can I mention The 644 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast I would love you too. My wife 645 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 2: actually co hosts it with Miamantha. We just talk parenting. 646 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: We love talking about family. We don't really make it 647 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 2: about us very much at all. It's very much about 648 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 2: research and what you can do to make your family 649 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: happier and stronger. We don't hold ourselves up at all 650 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 2: models of parenting perfection. In fact, we get it wrong 651 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: far more than we'd like to admit. But the Happy 652 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 2: Families podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts. And 653 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 2: I mean, I've written seven books about making families happier. Oh, 654 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 2: I've got to mention this one brand new, it's just 655 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: just coming out. It's called A Dad's Guide to Pregnancy 656 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 2: for Dummies. I've just written a dummies book. Make sure 657 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 2: you get the Australian second edition right because there's an 658 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 2: American edition and there's also a first Australian edition that 659 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 2: I didn't do. But the Dad's Guide to Pregnancy for Dummies, 660 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: if you know a dad who's I was going to 661 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 2: say a dad who's expecting, but that would not be 662 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 2: appropriate for me to say. I don't think if you 663 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 2: know somebody who's about to be a dad, whether it's 664 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 2: for the first time or the fifth time, it doesn't 665 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 2: really matter. This is a book about how you can 666 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 2: support your partner through pregnancy and specifically through labor, from 667 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 2: someone who's done it six times himself. Really excited about that. 668 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 2: So but basically, Happy Families dot com dot you just 669 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 2: google my name and you'll find me. 670 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: Think justin I feel like I always leave my chats 671 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: feeling so inspired and inspired to be a better parent 672 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: as well. So thank you so much for your time. 673 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 2: It's such a lot. I love your podcast and I 674 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: can't believe that I get to be on it. Thank you. 675 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: I loved what Justin said about packing less stuff into 676 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: what you communicate. I know that for me the scientist 677 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: and research, a part of me wants to pack every 678 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: talk that I design with heaps of strategies, and every 679 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 1: article that I write with lots of stuff. 680 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 2: But for me, this interview was such a. 681 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: Great reminder that more can actually be less. How I 682 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: work is produced by Inventing with production support from dead 683 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: Set Studios. The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan, 684 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: and thank you to Matt Nimba, who does the audio 685 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: mix for every episode and makes everything sound so much 686 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: better than. 687 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 2: It would have otherwise. See you next time.