Speaker 1: Just a warning that this podcast will deal with matters
Speaker 1: of sexual assault and rape. So if this topic is
Speaker 1: not for you, skip today and we'll be back again
Speaker 1: this afternoon with your evening headlines already And this is
Speaker 1: the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh now it
Speaker 1: makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, the twelfth of December. I'm Billy, I'm Zara.
Speaker 1: This week, rapper jay Z has been accused of raping
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old girl in two thousand, alongside Sean Combes,
Speaker 1: who also goes by Diddy, in a civil lawsuit filed
Speaker 1: in the US over the weekend. Jay Z has strongly
Speaker 1: denied the allegation, as has Combs. It's the latest in
Speaker 1: a string of allegations that have scented around Combs, but
Speaker 1: it's the first time we've heard any such allegation against
Speaker 1: jay Z.
Speaker 2: Billy really big story, not because of the power and
Speaker 2: the influence of someone like jay Z, and especially because
Speaker 2: it comes off the back, as you said, of all
Speaker 2: of these allegations that Diddy is facing. And we have
Speaker 2: done a separate podcast on that to give everyone a
Speaker 2: bit of a refresher though as to why this story
Speaker 2: does matter to you know, even us here in Australia.
Speaker 2: Who are these two men and why are we talking
Speaker 2: about them?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're two very famous men. But I think it's
Speaker 1: important to just give a brief bit of context. So
Speaker 1: jay Z is a very successful rapper. He's won twenty
Speaker 1: four Grammy Awards over his career. In twenty nineteen, Forbes
Speaker 1: declared him hip hop's first billionaire. And that's partly because
Speaker 1: he's also a very successful businessman. A lot of people
Speaker 1: will also know that he is married to Beyonce and
Speaker 1: his real name is Sean Carter. But just for clarity
Speaker 1: for this podcast, we're going to go by jay Z
Speaker 1: and then to Combs. He is also a rapper and
Speaker 1: he is also a producer. He founded bad Boy Records
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and that music label has represented some
Speaker 1: of the world's most famous rappers, including the notorious Big
Speaker 1: who might be familiar. But most recently, Combs has been
Speaker 1: investigated over several allegations, including sexual abuse, assault, trafficking, and
Speaker 1: also domestic violence.
Speaker 2: Okay, and so, as I said, we have spoken about
Speaker 2: those allegations before and about how shocking, you know, the
Speaker 2: vast number of them and the nature of them are.
Speaker 2: But today we're talking about this new allegation and that
Speaker 2: involves jay Z and came to light earlier this week.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me a bit about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this allegation that centers around jay Z isn't
Speaker 1: actually new. What's new is that jay Z has been
Speaker 1: named publicly in it. So the lawsuit was initially filed
Speaker 1: in October this year in New York with Comes as
Speaker 1: a sole defendant. It did mention another person, but only
Speaker 1: as the anonymous pseudonym that is often used in US cases,
Speaker 1: which is John Doe for men and then Jane Doe
Speaker 1: for women. So it did mention John Doe, but it
Speaker 1: has since been refiled over the weekend to name jay Z.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're saying, there was this existing lawsuit that
Speaker 2: was filed earlier in the year. It mentioned Sean Combs,
Speaker 2: it didn't mention jay Z. In recent days, it's now
Speaker 2: been refiled and it now includes jay Z's name. Yes,
Speaker 2: and that was made public this week.
Speaker 1: Yes, And in the initial one it did say that
Speaker 1: there was a high profile male that had allegedly raped
Speaker 1: this victim, but it just didn't say who that was,
Speaker 1: Like we said, now it does say who that is. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I'll go through how this alleged rape played out,
Speaker 1: but I do just want to say a quick warning
Speaker 1: that this part will include some details that could definitely
Speaker 1: be distressing to some listeners, So maybe just skip ahead
Speaker 1: a few minutes if you're not in the right head
Speaker 1: space to listen to this. In terms of the incident,
Speaker 1: it is alleged to have occurred at an MTV Video
Speaker 1: Musical Wards after party in two thousand, so we're going
Speaker 1: back nearly twenty five years. It's alleged that a thirteen
Speaker 1: year old girl who is anonymous in this lawsuit, we
Speaker 1: do not know her identity, she went to this after party.
Speaker 1: She didn't have a ticket, but she wanted to get in,
Speaker 1: and she spoke to a number of different drivers that
Speaker 1: were outside, and one of the drivers that she spoke
Speaker 1: to was Combs's driver, and he allegedly said to her
Speaker 1: that she quote fit what Diddy was looking for. He
Speaker 1: then invited her to a party, which she went to,
Speaker 1: and she said that she arrived to this large white
Speaker 1: residence with a gated U shaped driveway, and it is
Speaker 1: alleged that a lot of people at this party were
Speaker 1: high profile and also that there was a lot of
Speaker 1: drugs going around. She says that she was then given
Speaker 1: a drink which made her feel woozy and lightheaded, and
Speaker 1: that led her to go to a room by herself
Speaker 1: and lie down, and it's at that point that she
Speaker 1: said that Combs, jay Z, and also an unidentified female
Speaker 1: celebrity entered that room. It's then alleged that she was
Speaker 1: raped by jay Z first while Combs watched, and then
Speaker 1: she was raped by Combs, and it's also alleged that
Speaker 1: an unnamed female celebrity watched it whilst this happened. The
Speaker 1: lawsuit says that the girl began hitting CON's mid rape
Speaker 1: and she was then able to escape, and she apparently
Speaker 1: went to a local petrol station and her father then
Speaker 1: picked her up.
Speaker 2: I do think it's important here to reiterate that we
Speaker 2: are talking about someone who was thirteen at the time,
Speaker 2: and that these allegations, of course, remain untested at the
Speaker 2: time that we are talking about them today. How has
Speaker 2: jay Z responded to these allegations, because you know, they
Speaker 2: are very severe allegations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, jay Z has very strongly denied the allegation. He
Speaker 1: released a statement via his production company Rock Nation that
Speaker 1: was quite lengthy. I'll read out some of it. He said,
Speaker 1: whomever would commit such a crime against a minor should
Speaker 1: be locked away. Would you not agree these alleged victims
Speaker 1: would deserve real justice if that were the case. He
Speaker 1: also added, my only heartbreak is for my family. My
Speaker 1: wife Beyonce, and I will have to sit our children down,
Speaker 1: one of whom is at the age where her friends
Speaker 1: will surely see the press and ask questions about the
Speaker 1: nature of these claims. So that was a big part
Speaker 1: of his response, kind of detailing the personal impact that
Speaker 1: this kind of allegation is going to have on him
Speaker 1: and his family. But another really big part of his
Speaker 1: response focus on the lawyer of the plaintiff. So the
Speaker 1: lawyer of this unnamed thirteen year old girl who is
Speaker 1: obviously now an adult, and the lawyer's name is Tony Busby.
Speaker 1: We've actually since learnt in the days since this allegation
Speaker 1: was made public that in the weeks before it was
Speaker 1: made public, jay Z has actually sued this lawyer. So
Speaker 1: there is an ongoing battle between jay Z and jay
Speaker 1: Z's lawyers and also this girl's lawyers.
Speaker 2: Okay, so before jay Z's name was made public, he
Speaker 2: had already begun legal proceedings against the complainant's lawyer about
Speaker 2: something else or about.
Speaker 1: Yes, about this, because there had been a lot of
Speaker 1: communication between them prior to the public finding out about
Speaker 1: this allegation. To put it really simply, jay Z saying
Speaker 1: that this lawyer is just going after him for his money.
Speaker 1: That is the very clear inference in all of the
Speaker 1: statements that jay Z has put out. So jay Z
Speaker 1: claims that this lawyer quote blackmailed him in the weeks
Speaker 1: before this lawsuit was filed by saying that jay Z
Speaker 1: should settle the case otherwise the allegation would be made public, which,
Speaker 1: of course now we know that this allegation has been
Speaker 1: made public and jay Z has not settled, And in
Speaker 1: part of jay Z's statement that is directed to the
Speaker 1: lawyer said, I will not give you one red penny,
Speaker 1: So he's saying you will not get any money out
Speaker 1: of me. We are going to take this to court
Speaker 1: if you think that it needs to go there now.
Speaker 1: Jay Z has also encouraged the alleged victim and her
Speaker 1: lawyer to file a criminal complaint instead of a civil one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did want to pick up on that because
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier that. Jay Z's statement also said something
Speaker 2: about the fact that whoever commits a crime like this
Speaker 2: should be locked away. And he's talking there about the
Speaker 2: fact that this, as you just said, is a civil
Speaker 2: case not a criminal case. What are the differences and
Speaker 2: what do we know about what that means in jay
Speaker 2: Z's particular case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really really important point. So to give
Speaker 1: a very brief overview, there are two types of cases
Speaker 1: at a court. There's either civil or criminal. Like you said,
Speaker 1: this is civil and in civil cases it involves a
Speaker 1: dispute between two parties, with one party seeking some form
Speaker 1: of damages. And that's different to criminal cases where the state.
Speaker 1: So think of that as like the police they bring
Speaker 1: charges against a party for violation of a criminal law. Now,
Speaker 1: the other difference is the burden of proof. So in
Speaker 1: a civil case in the US, the party bringing the
Speaker 1: case has to prove the allegations by a preponderance of
Speaker 1: the evidence.
Speaker 2: Not a term we're used to hear in the No,
Speaker 2: if you've.
Speaker 1: Never heard of that phrase before, you're definitely not alone
Speaker 1: in Australia, quizzed me on this. Yeah, in Australia we
Speaker 1: call it on the balance of probabilities, and it's the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. It just means that in a civil
Speaker 1: case you need to prove that something is more likely
Speaker 1: to have happened than not, and that is lower than
Speaker 1: the criminal standard, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. So
Speaker 1: I think you can kind of think about it in percentages.
Speaker 1: If you're fifty one percent sure that something did happen,
Speaker 1: then that does meet the burden of proof in civil cases,
Speaker 1: but for a criminal case, you have to basically be
Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure that something did hap happen. The
Speaker 1: other critical part of this is that a prison sentence
Speaker 1: is also not an option in civil proceedings, which is
Speaker 1: why jay Z said, do you not think that someone
Speaker 1: should be in jail if this did happen? Whereas in
Speaker 1: a criminal case it can result in a prison sentence.
Speaker 2: But a civil case can lead to criminal charges being
Speaker 2: laid right.
Speaker 1: Yes it can, but no one goes to jail because
Speaker 1: of it, because of the civil case.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, all right, So sorry I distracted you for
Speaker 2: a second then, but we were talking about the fact
Speaker 2: that jay Z had actually already sued this then thirteen
Speaker 2: year old lawyer. How has that lawyer since responded? You
Speaker 2: know now that everything's kind of out in the open.
Speaker 1: So Tony buzzby the lawyer. He is saying that he
Speaker 1: has simply followed the legal practice, and that's sending what
Speaker 1: he called a basic litigation demand letter to jay Z
Speaker 1: is not blackmail, but rather just regular practice. He also said,
Speaker 1: and this is a quote, I won't be bullied or intimidated.
Speaker 1: People will see through this effort to discredit me and
Speaker 1: my clients, and the truth will be revealed. I also
Speaker 1: won't allow anyone to scare my clients into silence, and
Speaker 1: he said that he quote won't get bogged down in
Speaker 1: a silly side show that tries to make the lawyers
Speaker 1: the focus of what are very serious allegations brought by
Speaker 1: a courageous woman. There is a lot to this story.
Speaker 1: I've kind of just scratched the surface of the arguments
Speaker 1: that are now playing out in the legal system in
Speaker 1: the US. But I hope that kind of gives you
Speaker 1: a brief overview of the allegation that is now before
Speaker 1: jay Z and what the fallout from that has been.
Speaker 2: I must say, it does feel like we're going through
Speaker 2: a second wave of the Me too movement. You know,
Speaker 2: of course, these are just allegations. Nobody has been found
Speaker 2: guilty of any of these crimes. They are just allegations.
Speaker 2: But this idea of very high profile, very influential men
Speaker 2: in the entertainment industry having these allegations leveled against them.
Speaker 2: It does feel like what we were seeing a couple
Speaker 2: of years back, and it'll be fascinating to see where
Speaker 2: this story goes from here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the first Me Too movement was very
Speaker 1: focused on the acting industry at Hollywood. Yeah, and this
Speaker 1: feels very focused on the music industry. And what's also
Speaker 1: important to say is that there are so many unidentified
Speaker 1: people who are in these lawsuits and it will be
Speaker 1: fascinating to see if their names do come to life. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look a really important story, Billy, thank you for taking
Speaker 2: us through that. Do just want to say that if
Speaker 2: this podcast has brought up anything for you, you can
Speaker 2: call one eight hundred respect on one eight hundred seven
Speaker 2: three seven seven three to two. We'll be back again
Speaker 2: later today with the headlines, but until then, take care
Speaker 2: of yourself.
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bunje lung Chalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz
Speaker 1: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of
Speaker 1: the Gatighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and
Speaker 1: Torres Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to
Speaker 1: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.