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Speaker 1: Just a warning that this podcast will deal with matters

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault and rape. So if this topic is

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Speaker 1: not for you, skip today and we'll be back again

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Speaker 1: this afternoon with your evening headlines already And this is

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Speaker 1: the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh now it

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, the twelfth of December. I'm Billy, I'm Zara.

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Speaker 1: This week, rapper jay Z has been accused of raping

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Speaker 1: a thirteen year old girl in two thousand, alongside Sean Combes,

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Speaker 1: who also goes by Diddy, in a civil lawsuit filed

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Speaker 1: in the US over the weekend. Jay Z has strongly

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Speaker 1: denied the allegation, as has Combs. It's the latest in

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Speaker 1: a string of allegations that have scented around Combs, but

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Speaker 1: it's the first time we've heard any such allegation against

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Speaker 1: jay Z.

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Speaker 2: Billy really big story, not because of the power and

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Speaker 2: the influence of someone like jay Z, and especially because

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Speaker 2: it comes off the back, as you said, of all

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Speaker 2: of these allegations that Diddy is facing. And we have

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Speaker 2: done a separate podcast on that to give everyone a

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Speaker 2: bit of a refresher though as to why this story

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Speaker 2: does matter to you know, even us here in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Who are these two men and why are we talking

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Speaker 2: about them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're two very famous men. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to just give a brief bit of context. So

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Speaker 1: jay Z is a very successful rapper. He's won twenty

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Speaker 1: four Grammy Awards over his career. In twenty nineteen, Forbes

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Speaker 1: declared him hip hop's first billionaire. And that's partly because

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Speaker 1: he's also a very successful businessman. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: will also know that he is married to Beyonce and

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Speaker 1: his real name is Sean Carter. But just for clarity

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Speaker 1: for this podcast, we're going to go by jay Z

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Speaker 1: and then to Combs. He is also a rapper and

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Speaker 1: he is also a producer. He founded bad Boy Records

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and that music label has represented some

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Speaker 1: of the world's most famous rappers, including the notorious Big

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Speaker 1: who might be familiar. But most recently, Combs has been

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Speaker 1: investigated over several allegations, including sexual abuse, assault, trafficking, and

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Speaker 1: also domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and so, as I said, we have spoken about

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Speaker 2: those allegations before and about how shocking, you know, the

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Speaker 2: vast number of them and the nature of them are.

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Speaker 2: But today we're talking about this new allegation and that

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Speaker 2: involves jay Z and came to light earlier this week.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me a bit about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this allegation that centers around jay Z isn't

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Speaker 1: actually new. What's new is that jay Z has been

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Speaker 1: named publicly in it. So the lawsuit was initially filed

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Speaker 1: in October this year in New York with Comes as

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Speaker 1: a sole defendant. It did mention another person, but only

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Speaker 1: as the anonymous pseudonym that is often used in US cases,

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Speaker 1: which is John Doe for men and then Jane Doe

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Speaker 1: for women. So it did mention John Doe, but it

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Speaker 1: has since been refiled over the weekend to name jay Z.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you're saying, there was this existing lawsuit that

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Speaker 2: was filed earlier in the year. It mentioned Sean Combs,

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Speaker 2: it didn't mention jay Z. In recent days, it's now

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Speaker 2: been refiled and it now includes jay Z's name. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and that was made public this week.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And in the initial one it did say that

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Speaker 1: there was a high profile male that had allegedly raped

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Speaker 1: this victim, but it just didn't say who that was,

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Speaker 1: Like we said, now it does say who that is. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'll go through how this alleged rape played out,

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Speaker 1: but I do just want to say a quick warning

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Speaker 1: that this part will include some details that could definitely

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Speaker 1: be distressing to some listeners, So maybe just skip ahead

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Speaker 1: a few minutes if you're not in the right head

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Speaker 1: space to listen to this. In terms of the incident,

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Speaker 1: it is alleged to have occurred at an MTV Video

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Speaker 1: Musical Wards after party in two thousand, so we're going

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Speaker 1: back nearly twenty five years. It's alleged that a thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old girl who is anonymous in this lawsuit, we

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Speaker 1: do not know her identity, she went to this after party.

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Speaker 1: She didn't have a ticket, but she wanted to get in,

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Speaker 1: and she spoke to a number of different drivers that

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Speaker 1: were outside, and one of the drivers that she spoke

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Speaker 1: to was Combs's driver, and he allegedly said to her

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Speaker 1: that she quote fit what Diddy was looking for. He

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Speaker 1: then invited her to a party, which she went to,

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Speaker 1: and she said that she arrived to this large white

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Speaker 1: residence with a gated U shaped driveway, and it is

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Speaker 1: alleged that a lot of people at this party were

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Speaker 1: high profile and also that there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: drugs going around. She says that she was then given

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Speaker 1: a drink which made her feel woozy and lightheaded, and

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Speaker 1: that led her to go to a room by herself

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Speaker 1: and lie down, and it's at that point that she

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Speaker 1: said that Combs, jay Z, and also an unidentified female

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Speaker 1: celebrity entered that room. It's then alleged that she was

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Speaker 1: raped by jay Z first while Combs watched, and then

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Speaker 1: she was raped by Combs, and it's also alleged that

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Speaker 1: an unnamed female celebrity watched it whilst this happened. The

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Speaker 1: lawsuit says that the girl began hitting CON's mid rape

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Speaker 1: and she was then able to escape, and she apparently

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Speaker 1: went to a local petrol station and her father then

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Speaker 1: picked her up.

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Speaker 2: I do think it's important here to reiterate that we

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Speaker 2: are talking about someone who was thirteen at the time,

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Speaker 2: and that these allegations, of course, remain untested at the

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Speaker 2: time that we are talking about them today. How has

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Speaker 2: jay Z responded to these allegations, because you know, they

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Speaker 2: are very severe allegations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, jay Z has very strongly denied the allegation. He

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Speaker 1: released a statement via his production company Rock Nation that

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Speaker 1: was quite lengthy. I'll read out some of it. He said,

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Speaker 1: whomever would commit such a crime against a minor should

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Speaker 1: be locked away. Would you not agree these alleged victims

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Speaker 1: would deserve real justice if that were the case. He

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Speaker 1: also added, my only heartbreak is for my family. My

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Speaker 1: wife Beyonce, and I will have to sit our children down,

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Speaker 1: one of whom is at the age where her friends

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Speaker 1: will surely see the press and ask questions about the

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Speaker 1: nature of these claims. So that was a big part

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Speaker 1: of his response, kind of detailing the personal impact that

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Speaker 1: this kind of allegation is going to have on him

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Speaker 1: and his family. But another really big part of his

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Speaker 1: response focus on the lawyer of the plaintiff. So the

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Speaker 1: lawyer of this unnamed thirteen year old girl who is

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Speaker 1: obviously now an adult, and the lawyer's name is Tony Busby.

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Speaker 1: We've actually since learnt in the days since this allegation

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Speaker 1: was made public that in the weeks before it was

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Speaker 1: made public, jay Z has actually sued this lawyer. So

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Speaker 1: there is an ongoing battle between jay Z and jay

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Speaker 1: Z's lawyers and also this girl's lawyers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so before jay Z's name was made public, he

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Speaker 2: had already begun legal proceedings against the complainant's lawyer about

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Speaker 2: something else or about.

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Speaker 1: Yes, about this, because there had been a lot of

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Speaker 1: communication between them prior to the public finding out about

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Speaker 1: this allegation. To put it really simply, jay Z saying

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Speaker 1: that this lawyer is just going after him for his money.

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Speaker 1: That is the very clear inference in all of the

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Speaker 1: statements that jay Z has put out. So jay Z

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Speaker 1: claims that this lawyer quote blackmailed him in the weeks

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Speaker 1: before this lawsuit was filed by saying that jay Z

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Speaker 1: should settle the case otherwise the allegation would be made public, which,

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Speaker 1: of course now we know that this allegation has been

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Speaker 1: made public and jay Z has not settled, And in

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Speaker 1: part of jay Z's statement that is directed to the

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Speaker 1: lawyer said, I will not give you one red penny,

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Speaker 1: So he's saying you will not get any money out

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Speaker 1: of me. We are going to take this to court

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Speaker 1: if you think that it needs to go there now.

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Speaker 1: Jay Z has also encouraged the alleged victim and her

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Speaker 1: lawyer to file a criminal complaint instead of a civil one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did want to pick up on that because

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Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier that. Jay Z's statement also said something

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Speaker 2: about the fact that whoever commits a crime like this

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Speaker 2: should be locked away. And he's talking there about the

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Speaker 2: fact that this, as you just said, is a civil

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Speaker 2: case not a criminal case. What are the differences and

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Speaker 2: what do we know about what that means in jay

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Speaker 2: Z's particular case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really really important point. So to give

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Speaker 1: a very brief overview, there are two types of cases

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Speaker 1: at a court. There's either civil or criminal. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: this is civil and in civil cases it involves a

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Speaker 1: dispute between two parties, with one party seeking some form

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Speaker 1: of damages. And that's different to criminal cases where the state.

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Speaker 1: So think of that as like the police they bring

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Speaker 1: charges against a party for violation of a criminal law. Now,

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Speaker 1: the other difference is the burden of proof. So in

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Speaker 1: a civil case in the US, the party bringing the

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Speaker 1: case has to prove the allegations by a preponderance of

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Speaker 1: the evidence.

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Speaker 2: Not a term we're used to hear in the No,

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Speaker 2: if you've.

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Speaker 1: Never heard of that phrase before, you're definitely not alone

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Speaker 1: in Australia, quizzed me on this. Yeah, in Australia we

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Speaker 1: call it on the balance of probabilities, and it's the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing. It just means that in a civil

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Speaker 1: case you need to prove that something is more likely

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Speaker 1: to have happened than not, and that is lower than

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Speaker 1: the criminal standard, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. So

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Speaker 1: I think you can kind of think about it in percentages.

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Speaker 1: If you're fifty one percent sure that something did happen,

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Speaker 1: then that does meet the burden of proof in civil cases,

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Speaker 1: but for a criminal case, you have to basically be

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure that something did hap happen. The

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Speaker 1: other critical part of this is that a prison sentence

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Speaker 1: is also not an option in civil proceedings, which is

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Speaker 1: why jay Z said, do you not think that someone

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Speaker 1: should be in jail if this did happen? Whereas in

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Speaker 1: a criminal case it can result in a prison sentence.

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Speaker 2: But a civil case can lead to criminal charges being

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Speaker 2: laid right.

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Speaker 1: Yes it can, but no one goes to jail because

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Speaker 1: of it, because of the civil case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, all right, So sorry I distracted you for

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Speaker 2: a second then, but we were talking about the fact

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Speaker 2: that jay Z had actually already sued this then thirteen

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Speaker 2: year old lawyer. How has that lawyer since responded? You

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Speaker 2: know now that everything's kind of out in the open.

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Speaker 1: So Tony buzzby the lawyer. He is saying that he

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Speaker 1: has simply followed the legal practice, and that's sending what

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Speaker 1: he called a basic litigation demand letter to jay Z

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Speaker 1: is not blackmail, but rather just regular practice. He also said,

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Speaker 1: and this is a quote, I won't be bullied or intimidated.

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Speaker 1: People will see through this effort to discredit me and

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Speaker 1: my clients, and the truth will be revealed. I also

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Speaker 1: won't allow anyone to scare my clients into silence, and

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Speaker 1: he said that he quote won't get bogged down in

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Speaker 1: a silly side show that tries to make the lawyers

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Speaker 1: the focus of what are very serious allegations brought by

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Speaker 1: a courageous woman. There is a lot to this story.

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Speaker 1: I've kind of just scratched the surface of the arguments

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Speaker 1: that are now playing out in the legal system in

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Speaker 1: the US. But I hope that kind of gives you

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Speaker 1: a brief overview of the allegation that is now before

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Speaker 1: jay Z and what the fallout from that has been.

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Speaker 2: I must say, it does feel like we're going through

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Speaker 2: a second wave of the Me too movement. You know,

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Speaker 2: of course, these are just allegations. Nobody has been found

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Speaker 2: guilty of any of these crimes. They are just allegations.

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Speaker 2: But this idea of very high profile, very influential men

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Speaker 2: in the entertainment industry having these allegations leveled against them.

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Speaker 2: It does feel like what we were seeing a couple

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Speaker 2: of years back, and it'll be fascinating to see where

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Speaker 2: this story goes from here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the first Me Too movement was very

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Speaker 1: focused on the acting industry at Hollywood. Yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: feels very focused on the music industry. And what's also

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Speaker 1: important to say is that there are so many unidentified

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Speaker 1: people who are in these lawsuits and it will be

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Speaker 1: fascinating to see if their names do come to life. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look a really important story, Billy, thank you for taking

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Speaker 2: us through that. Do just want to say that if

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Speaker 2: this podcast has brought up anything for you, you can

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Speaker 2: call one eight hundred respect on one eight hundred seven

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Speaker 2: three seven seven three to two. We'll be back again

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Speaker 2: later today with the headlines, but until then, take care

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Speaker 2: of yourself.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunje lung Chalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz

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Speaker 1: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of

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Speaker 1: the Gatighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and

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Speaker 1: Torres Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to

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Speaker 1: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.