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Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that long ago the Johnny Depp and Amber Herd

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Speaker 2: defamation case captured the world. I thought you'd heard enough. Well,

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Speaker 2: now there's a Netflix documentary putting the case back at

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Speaker 2: the forefront for people. Somebod who went viral by commentating

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Speaker 2: on the trial is Sydney based defense lawyer Jahann Kalanta.

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Speaker 2: He's featured heavily in the doco. Without him even knowing it,

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Speaker 2: he joins us Now, Jahann.

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Speaker 1: Hi, hey you, good morning. How are you great.

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Speaker 3: It must have been interesting when all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: you just popped up on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: It was a weird Thursday. I started getting text messages

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Speaker 1: for relatives and friends. Oh, you did great in that documentary,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, what documentary are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: Well, this all came about because of your tiktoks, which

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Speaker 2: was your daily analysis of the court room drama. What

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Speaker 2: did you make of that court case? Because early on

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Speaker 2: you said, well, Johnny Depp's going to be he's going

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Speaker 2: to be let off here, and you were right.

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Speaker 1: It was a really interesting moment in I guess pop

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Speaker 1: culture and legal history. So I can only see the

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Speaker 1: world through the lens of a lawyer, and while I

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Speaker 1: don't practice in the United States, many of the tactical

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Speaker 1: and strategic skills are pretty much the same, and so

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of white noise around this particular trial.

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Speaker 1: But when you cut through it and you started to

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Speaker 1: look at the different elements, you started to see, Look,

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Speaker 1: it's likely that she was defamed, and that's what the

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Speaker 1: court ultimately found, as was Miss Hurds.

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Speaker 2: So they were both defamed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So essentially the ultimate outcome was that mister Depp

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Speaker 1: had been defamed by the op ed and that Miss

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Speaker 1: Hurd had been defamed by representations made by mister Depp's

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Speaker 1: attorney at the time. So it was the victory was

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Speaker 1: really to mister Depp because he was awarded substantially more damages.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately the court found both of them had done

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Speaker 1: the long thing.

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Speaker 2: You were quite opinionated about Amber Herd's legal team. What

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Speaker 2: did they get wrong?

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Speaker 1: I think they did a very very good job, to

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Speaker 1: the best of their ability, with a client that was

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Speaker 1: not particularly well received by either the jury or the

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Speaker 1: general public. And I think that what they did was

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Speaker 1: they came off as quite swami at certain times, and

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Speaker 1: they came off as quite arrogant, and that's understandable. Defamation

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Speaker 1: is incredibly hard to prove in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: mister Herd had already unsuccessfully attempted a defamation action against

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Speaker 1: The Sun in the United Kingdom, and so it was

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Speaker 1: easy for them to go in there thinking this is

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Speaker 1: a laid down maasaire. But as the trial went on,

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Speaker 1: and as the jury started to I guess, become more

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Speaker 1: conscious of the credibility of misheard and perhaps find Johnny

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Speaker 1: more likable than they expected. They didn't switch tactics, and

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Speaker 1: that's where I think they came a little bit unstuck.

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Speaker 3: Defamation has become a big thing in our country, though,

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Speaker 3: hasn't it as well, but not really successful. No one's

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Speaker 3: really won any defamation cases.

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Speaker 1: Well. The reality is that this type of litigation, large

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Speaker 1: scale defamation for a powerful person to protect their position,

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Speaker 1: was never done before this, and certainly not done in

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Speaker 1: such a way as to be publicly broadcast on social media.

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Speaker 1: Was the first of its kind, but I believe it's

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Speaker 1: the start of something. I don't know if anything will

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Speaker 1: ever be this big again, but I imagine that this

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Speaker 1: will be the way that you know a listers and

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Speaker 1: people in power litigate these disputes moving forward, because it

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Speaker 1: really was a pr campaign wrapped up as a lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: And is that good or bad? How do you as

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Speaker 2: a lawyer feel about that?

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Speaker 1: I see it. Look, I can kind of both ways.

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Speaker 1: Access to justice is necessarily a good thing. It's good

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Speaker 1: that people can see the evidence unfold and can make

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Speaker 1: those opinions. But the problem is that it also generates

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Speaker 1: substantial white noise. A lot of the experts who were

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Speaker 1: commentating on this thing had no qualification whatsoever, and some

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Speaker 1: of them were saying things that were respectfully unhinged. So

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Speaker 1: it's really concerning because if you're getting you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're getting your insights from people who aren't qualified journalists,

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Speaker 1: you've got a problem.

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Speaker 2: And the result is very interesting that Johnny Depp continues

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Speaker 2: to work and Amberhard seems to be struggling. Funny that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, it's what we need to always bring it

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Speaker 1: back to is that if somebody is the victim of

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Speaker 1: something surrendous as into partner violence, they deserve to be believed.

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Speaker 1: And it's so important that this does not detract from

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Speaker 1: that message in any way, shape or form. The flip

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Speaker 1: side of it, though, is if someone is willing to

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Speaker 1: make unsubstantiate allegations which destroy someone's life. There needs to

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Speaker 1: be some account and so I'm hopeful that this has

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Speaker 1: brought that message to the general public and it hasn't

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Speaker 1: kind of washed over the importance of making sure that

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Speaker 1: people in those horrible situations deserve to be believed and

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Speaker 1: deserve to have every opportunity to get out of them.

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Speaker 3: Well, Johan, you are great. We're putting you on our

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Speaker 3: speed for any sort of defamation law or trouble that

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Speaker 3: Amanda might get us into.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't be me.

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Speaker 3: It would always be Amanda. And you can follow Johanna

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Speaker 3: on TikTok at Johan Kalanta Official. Thank you for joining us, mate.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Guys,