WEBVTT - Are we getting a new Opposition Leader?

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<v Speaker 1>Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty ninth of September. I'm Billy fitz Simons.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Emma Gillespie.

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<v Speaker 2>You may have seen headlines recently that there could be

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<v Speaker 2>a possible challenger to the leadership of the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 2>It's only been a few months since Susan Lee took

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<v Speaker 2>over from Peter Dutton, becoming the first ever woman to

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<v Speaker 2>lead the party. But Andrew Hasty, who is the Shadow

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<v Speaker 2>Home Affairs Minister, has started expressing some frustration with the

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<v Speaker 2>party's position on different issues like climate change and immigration.

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<v Speaker 2>So why exactly is this happening and could there actually

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<v Speaker 2>be a new leadership challenge already. We're going to explain

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<v Speaker 2>all of that today, but first here is a quick

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<v Speaker 2>message from our sponsor.

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<v Speaker 1>See, it's been a bit of a roller coaster period

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<v Speaker 1>for the Liberal Party for the coalition off the back

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<v Speaker 1>of an election in May. Before we get into this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of new leadership battle, there's some really important context

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<v Speaker 1>to understand about those last few months. Can you give

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<v Speaker 1>us a bit of a sense.

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<v Speaker 2>It feels like the election was so long ago, it

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<v Speaker 2>kind of does, but it was only in May. So

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party is right now in opposition after that

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<v Speaker 2>election in May, and it was at that election that

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<v Speaker 2>they suffered quite a catastrophic loss. It was one of

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<v Speaker 2>their worst ever losses. Labor finished with more than double

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<v Speaker 2>the number of seats of the Liberal and National parties

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<v Speaker 2>who make up the coalition, so again, very bad result.

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<v Speaker 2>Cannot emphasize how bad that result was for them. And

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<v Speaker 2>since then the Liberal Party has really done a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of soul searching and they still are in their soul

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<v Speaker 2>searching era trying to exactly understand what went so wrong

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<v Speaker 2>for them and why Australia rejected them to the extent

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<v Speaker 2>that they did exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And the fallout of that rejection was this very brief breakup, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>between the Liberal National coalition.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been a real tumultuous period for the coalition

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<v Speaker 2>and yeah, there was that brief breakup. Another thing that

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<v Speaker 2>happened is that the Liberal Party needed to quite quickly

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<v Speaker 2>after the election find a new leader because Peter Dutton,

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<v Speaker 2>who was the leader of the Liberal Party, he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>just lead their party to one of their worst losses

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<v Speaker 2>in history, as I've mentioned, but he also actually lost

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<v Speaker 2>his own seat, which is extremely rare, and that meant

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<v Speaker 2>that he was booted from politics, and so hence the

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<v Speaker 2>leadership was vacant and they needed to find a new leader.

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<v Speaker 1>And that leadership, that new leader is what we are

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<v Speaker 1>talking about today. So Susan Lee was chosen to become

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party leader. She is the opposition leader, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but maybe not for long.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe not for long. So, like I said in the intro,

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<v Speaker 2>her leadership was historic. She is the first woman to

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<v Speaker 2>be the leader of the Liberal Party in its eighty

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<v Speaker 2>year history. And I think one thing to understand here

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<v Speaker 2>is that the appointment of Lee was not unanimous. It

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<v Speaker 2>was between her and her colleague Angus Taylor. And what

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<v Speaker 2>was interesting is that the party really needed to decide

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<v Speaker 2>after this election what direction they were going to go

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<v Speaker 2>in ideologically. So Susan Lee represented a more moderate side

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<v Speaker 2>of the party, which was closer to the center of politics,

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<v Speaker 2>and then Angus Taylor was more conservative and that was

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<v Speaker 2>more aligned with Peter Duddon as well. The party chose

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<v Speaker 2>Susan Lee, and I think that was broadly seen by

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<v Speaker 2>the media and by the public as the Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>deciding to move closer to the center after they had

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<v Speaker 2>campaigned on policies under Peter Dudden that were further to

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<v Speaker 2>the right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we saw historic losses, you know, not just across

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<v Speaker 1>the board but in the major cities with women voters.

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<v Speaker 1>So the appointment of Susan Lee was kind of this

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<v Speaker 1>reaction to, Okay, well, whatever we said and did in

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<v Speaker 1>the lead up to ballot day wasn't enough to convince

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<v Speaker 1>voters across the board. So you know, how can we

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<v Speaker 1>become a more appealing party and more appealing option to

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<v Speaker 1>more Australians. And I think you know that's the thinking

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<v Speaker 1>behind that more moderate leader. Yes, and so Billy, how

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<v Speaker 1>do we go from that thinking, that soul searching to

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the possibility of a new leader of the party.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think one thing I should also mention is

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<v Speaker 2>that after every election, the party that loses usually will

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<v Speaker 2>do a post election review to find out exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>went wrong. And we still don't have the final on that,

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<v Speaker 2>so they are kind of still in their soul searching era.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think all of this speculation about whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not there could be a new leader now is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of part of that. And so the reason we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about it today is because, like we've alluded to, it

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<v Speaker 2>looks like her leadership could be under threat. Now, to

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<v Speaker 2>be clear, there hasn't been any explicit announcement or anything

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<v Speaker 2>like that. I want to say that from the outset

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<v Speaker 2>this is just speculation, but it's quite a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>speculation that one of her colleagues, a man named Andrew Hasty,

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<v Speaker 2>is basically preparing for a leadership challenge of some sort.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's interesting to kind of think about the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that it's not necessarily a brand new idea in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of the last couple of weeks that Susan Lee's

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<v Speaker 1>leadership may be vulnerable. But what is new is that

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<v Speaker 1>we have a name to put to the speculation. There

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<v Speaker 1>has been weeks of instability, there have been weeks of

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<v Speaker 1>questions about her tenure, But where has the speculation come

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<v Speaker 1>from about Hasty specifically?

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<v Speaker 2>So, Andrew Hasty is from the conservative wing of the party,

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<v Speaker 2>just like Angus Taylor, who was the main contender after

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<v Speaker 2>the election for the leadership, and also just like Peter

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<v Speaker 2>Dutton was.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and a quick note there that within our major

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<v Speaker 1>political parties the system works this way that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>even in labor and as well. In the coalition there

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<v Speaker 1>are factions. There's a complex kind of method and madness

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<v Speaker 1>to the party caucus, and we see people further to

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<v Speaker 1>the left and further to the right in each major party.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and Andrew Hasty is in a different faction to

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<v Speaker 2>Susan Lee. Now, quick context on Andrew Hasty, a very

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<v Speaker 2>quick bio. He is a former soldier and he's currently

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<v Speaker 2>the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, which is all about domestic policy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's quite widely reported in the media that he wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>stoked with that appointment. It was said that he kind

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<v Speaker 2>of wanted to expand outside of security and defense, possibly

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<v Speaker 2>wanted something like economics or education or health. But he

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get that. And I think that's important context just

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of set the scene that his relationship with

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<v Speaker 2>Susan Lee is perhaps already on rocky grounds.

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<v Speaker 1>But Billy, am I right in thinking him being appointed

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<v Speaker 1>to the shadow cabinet is of significance and of itself.

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<v Speaker 1>Not all ministers are appointed to the shadow cabinet that

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<v Speaker 1>is perceived to be you know Susan Lee's top list

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<v Speaker 1>of her most relied upon senior ministers.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, definitely, But I would also say that there could

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<v Speaker 2>be other factors that play there, like the factions, politics

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<v Speaker 2>within the politics. It's all gets very confusing, but definitely

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<v Speaker 2>he was still given a role. Then in the past

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<v Speaker 2>month or so, or even just in the past couple

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<v Speaker 2>of weeks, he has started posting things to his social

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<v Speaker 2>media accounts and he's also started giving radio interviews where

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<v Speaker 2>he's kind of talking out of line with the official

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<v Speaker 2>party positions and saying things that don't completely align with

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<v Speaker 2>what his colleagues are saying. So, for example, he has

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<v Speaker 2>started saying that the Coalition should abandon net zero if

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<v Speaker 2>they are elected at the next election.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you what the key risks to our way

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<v Speaker 3>of life is. The real risk is from these alarma, scientists, lobbyists,

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<v Speaker 3>grifters and foreign businesses who benefit from the net zero transition.

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<v Speaker 3>Since we've signed up to net zero, gas prices have

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<v Speaker 3>gone up forty percent for Australian families, Electricity prices have

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<v Speaker 3>gone up thirty percent for Australian families, and all the

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<v Speaker 3>while we keep exporting coal, gas and other minerals. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>it's the hypocrisy is breathtaking.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this is a retric that has been pushed by

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<v Speaker 1>a fair few Nationals politicians in recent weeks, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>rarer for a Liberal politician to kind of step outside

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<v Speaker 1>away from the party line.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you remind us quickly really what net zero actually means? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>So net zero is the goal to reach a balance

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<v Speaker 2>where the amount of green house gases that are being

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<v Speaker 2>emitted into the atmosphere is the same as the amount

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<v Speaker 2>being removed. And in Australia we have a goal to

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<v Speaker 2>achieve net zero by twenty fifty and the Coalition went

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<v Speaker 2>to the last election saying that they would maintain that goal. Okay, However,

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<v Speaker 2>it has now emerged as a key part of contention

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<v Speaker 2>within the Liberal Party and the National Party, So I

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<v Speaker 2>guess within the Coalition as a whole about whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not they will keep it under this new era under

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<v Speaker 2>Susan Lee and Andrew Hasty is at the forefront of

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<v Speaker 2>saying the party should abandon it. And not only is

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<v Speaker 2>he saying that they should abandon it, he's basically alluded

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<v Speaker 2>to saying that he would actually quit the front bench,

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<v Speaker 2>so he would quit his position as the Shadow Home

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<v Speaker 2>Affairs Minister if the party decides to stick with net zero.

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<v Speaker 2>On Sky News earlier this month, when he was asked

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<v Speaker 2>if he would quit, he said, it's a hypothetical question,

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<v Speaker 2>but fundamentally, I wouldn't be much used to the coalition

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm out the front trying to sell a policy

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<v Speaker 2>I don't believe in Billy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's pretty unusual, isn't it to see a politician go

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<v Speaker 1>against their leader in such an explicit way, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that is what is important to remember

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<v Speaker 2>here that in politics, or at least within parties, usually

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<v Speaker 2>it is this rule that you have to stick to

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<v Speaker 2>the party line position, which usually is set by your leader.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what's unusual about this is that he's having

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<v Speaker 2>these discussions with his leader kind of publicly instead of

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<v Speaker 2>internally or privately, or perhaps he's having them internally, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's rare that he's also having them so publicly and

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<v Speaker 2>that they are disagreeing so publicly.

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<v Speaker 1>And as a seasoned senior minister and politician, he would

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<v Speaker 1>know the impact of those kind of public comments definitely

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<v Speaker 1>destabilizing the perception of stability in the party.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And I also think what's interesting is that in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean not in recent years, but if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at kind of from the Gillard Rudd years, we went

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<v Speaker 2>through such a period of politics within parties and.

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<v Speaker 1>This perception of backstabbing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, that none of the politicians within their own

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<v Speaker 2>party could agree with each other, and it was really

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<v Speaker 2>criticized by the public, you know, the public saying, you

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<v Speaker 2>guys kind of need to get your stuff together because

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<v Speaker 2>it's quite confusing that none of you are united.

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<v Speaker 1>And then in the years sort of post that era,

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<v Speaker 1>there has been a concerted effort from the major parties

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<v Speaker 1>not to be seen to have that disharmony within their ranks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's definitely seen as you know, disagree privately but

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<v Speaker 2>put on a united front, and that is not what

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<v Speaker 2>is happening right now with the coalition.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's net zero. We know how Andrew Hasty feels

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<v Speaker 1>about that policy agenda specifically, but has he spoken out

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<v Speaker 1>on any other areas contradicting Susan Lee elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'll go through some of the other ones quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's also been very outspoken on immigration and saying

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<v Speaker 2>that we need a slash net overseas migration. He's also

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<v Speaker 2>spoken a lot about a desire to manufacture things in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia and the way that he has spoken about those

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<v Speaker 2>two issues have been along the more conservative lines than

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<v Speaker 2>what the rest of his party has been saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, got it. And so then back to this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of speculated leadership spill, his alleged ambition to become leader.

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<v Speaker 1>What do we know most recently about that?

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<v Speaker 2>So, at the time of recording, the most recent time

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<v Speaker 2>that he was asked about it was on Thursday morning

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<v Speaker 2>on TWOGB.

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<v Speaker 1>A Sydney radio station.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and when asked if he was happy under the

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<v Speaker 2>leadership of Susan Lee, he said, look, I support Susan.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyone who's speculating otherwise is being mischievous. My main concern

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<v Speaker 2>is that the center right is fragmenting, So kind of

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<v Speaker 2>shutting down the speculation, but still kind of hinting that

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<v Speaker 2>he's not sure that the right side of politics is

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<v Speaker 2>working at the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's still a kind of provocative or inflammatory suggestion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And then when the host pushed him on this

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<v Speaker 2>and asked if he has fear for the future of

0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:36.480
<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party specifically, he said yes. He said, I

0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.320
<v Speaker 2>think unless we get our act together, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be potentially in further decline and perhaps one day extinct.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a pretty strong statement saying that at the way

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<v Speaker 2>we're going, we actually could be extinct as a political

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 2>movement in this country.

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<v Speaker 1>When we are a country with a two party system.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he also said that's why what we do over

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<v Speaker 2>the next two years is so important. And there he's

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<v Speaker 2>referring to the timeline of when the next election will

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<v Speaker 2>be because in Australia we have three year cycles.

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<v Speaker 1>You can really understand, Billy, I think where this speculation

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<v Speaker 1>has come from when you look at that suggestion. He's

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<v Speaker 1>not saying that he is happy with how things are going.

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 1>He's not suggesting that it's all sunshine and rainbows in

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party. And you know whether or not he

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 1>has ambitions. Clearly there is still a lot of instability.

0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 1>So where does all of this leave us.

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<v Speaker 2>Billy, Essentially, it's a watch and wait. I think the

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<v Speaker 2>main thing to keep an eye on is when the

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party announces their energy policy, because that is clearly

0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the one causing the most division amongst the party and

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 2>amongst the coalition, and clearly, either way they go, it

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<v Speaker 2>appears they will be upset within the party and that

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<v Speaker 2>could potentially result in a leadership spill.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we know when to expect that energy policy.

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<v Speaker 2>They have not given us an any timelines. I think

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<v Speaker 2>I presume that we will get that policy after we

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<v Speaker 2>get the final report that I mentioned earlier that will

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<v Speaker 2>explain what exactly went so wrong for the coalition at

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 2>that election. So I think it's after they do that

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.880
<v Speaker 2>post mortem that they'll then look at what the future

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 2>looks like.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting. Well, we will keep our eyes closely on the future,

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 1>and it seems like it could be a throwback to

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.120
<v Speaker 1>the twenty ten. When you say the words leadership's phil

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 1>I think that gets everyone's attention. Philly. Thank you so

0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>so much for breaking that one down for us. Thank

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 1>you and thank you for listening to today's episode. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>be back a little later on with your afternoon news headlines,

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<v Speaker 1>but until then, have a great day.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Bungelung Kalkotin woman from Gadigl Country.

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<v Speaker 2>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 2>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.840
<v Speaker 2>all Aboriginal and toy Straight island and nations. We pay

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:05.720
<v Speaker 2>past and present,