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Speaker 1: Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty ninth of September. I'm Billy fitz Simons.

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Speaker 1: I'm Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 2: You may have seen headlines recently that there could be

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Speaker 2: a possible challenger to the leadership of the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 2: It's only been a few months since Susan Lee took

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Speaker 2: over from Peter Dutton, becoming the first ever woman to

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Speaker 2: lead the party. But Andrew Hasty, who is the Shadow

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Speaker 2: Home Affairs Minister, has started expressing some frustration with the

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Speaker 2: party's position on different issues like climate change and immigration.

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Speaker 2: So why exactly is this happening and could there actually

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Speaker 2: be a new leadership challenge already. We're going to explain

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Speaker 2: all of that today, but first here is a quick

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Speaker 2: message from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: See, it's been a bit of a roller coaster period

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Speaker 1: for the Liberal Party for the coalition off the back

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Speaker 1: of an election in May. Before we get into this

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Speaker 1: kind of new leadership battle, there's some really important context

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Speaker 1: to understand about those last few months. Can you give

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Speaker 1: us a bit of a sense.

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Speaker 2: It feels like the election was so long ago, it

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Speaker 2: kind of does, but it was only in May. So

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party is right now in opposition after that

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Speaker 2: election in May, and it was at that election that

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Speaker 2: they suffered quite a catastrophic loss. It was one of

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Speaker 2: their worst ever losses. Labor finished with more than double

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Speaker 2: the number of seats of the Liberal and National parties

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Speaker 2: who make up the coalition, so again, very bad result.

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Speaker 2: Cannot emphasize how bad that result was for them. And

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Speaker 2: since then the Liberal Party has really done a lot

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Speaker 2: of soul searching and they still are in their soul

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Speaker 2: searching era trying to exactly understand what went so wrong

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Speaker 2: for them and why Australia rejected them to the extent

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Speaker 2: that they did exactly.

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Speaker 1: And the fallout of that rejection was this very brief breakup, yes,

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Speaker 1: between the Liberal National coalition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a real tumultuous period for the coalition

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Speaker 2: and yeah, there was that brief breakup. Another thing that

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Speaker 2: happened is that the Liberal Party needed to quite quickly

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Speaker 2: after the election find a new leader because Peter Dutton,

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Speaker 2: who was the leader of the Liberal Party, he didn't

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Speaker 2: just lead their party to one of their worst losses

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Speaker 2: in history, as I've mentioned, but he also actually lost

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Speaker 2: his own seat, which is extremely rare, and that meant

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Speaker 2: that he was booted from politics, and so hence the

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Speaker 2: leadership was vacant and they needed to find a new leader.

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Speaker 1: And that leadership, that new leader is what we are

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Speaker 1: talking about today. So Susan Lee was chosen to become

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Speaker 1: the Liberal Party leader. She is the opposition leader, yes,

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Speaker 1: but maybe not for long.

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Speaker 2: Maybe not for long. So, like I said in the intro,

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Speaker 2: her leadership was historic. She is the first woman to

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Speaker 2: be the leader of the Liberal Party in its eighty

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Speaker 2: year history. And I think one thing to understand here

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Speaker 2: is that the appointment of Lee was not unanimous. It

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Speaker 2: was between her and her colleague Angus Taylor. And what

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Speaker 2: was interesting is that the party really needed to decide

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Speaker 2: after this election what direction they were going to go

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Speaker 2: in ideologically. So Susan Lee represented a more moderate side

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Speaker 2: of the party, which was closer to the center of politics,

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Speaker 2: and then Angus Taylor was more conservative and that was

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Speaker 2: more aligned with Peter Duddon as well. The party chose

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Speaker 2: Susan Lee, and I think that was broadly seen by

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Speaker 2: the media and by the public as the Liberal Party

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Speaker 2: deciding to move closer to the center after they had

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Speaker 2: campaigned on policies under Peter Dudden that were further to

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Speaker 2: the right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we saw historic losses, you know, not just across

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Speaker 1: the board but in the major cities with women voters.

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Speaker 1: So the appointment of Susan Lee was kind of this

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Speaker 1: reaction to, Okay, well, whatever we said and did in

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Speaker 1: the lead up to ballot day wasn't enough to convince

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Speaker 1: voters across the board. So you know, how can we

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Speaker 1: become a more appealing party and more appealing option to

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Speaker 1: more Australians. And I think you know that's the thinking

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Speaker 1: behind that more moderate leader. Yes, and so Billy, how

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Speaker 1: do we go from that thinking, that soul searching to

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Speaker 1: talking about the possibility of a new leader of the party.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think one thing I should also mention is

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Speaker 2: that after every election, the party that loses usually will

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Speaker 2: do a post election review to find out exactly what

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Speaker 2: went wrong. And we still don't have the final on that,

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Speaker 2: so they are kind of still in their soul searching era.

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Speaker 2: And I think all of this speculation about whether or

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Speaker 2: not there could be a new leader now is kind

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Speaker 2: of part of that. And so the reason we're talking

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Speaker 2: about it today is because, like we've alluded to, it

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Speaker 2: looks like her leadership could be under threat. Now, to

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Speaker 2: be clear, there hasn't been any explicit announcement or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. I want to say that from the outset

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Speaker 2: this is just speculation, but it's quite a lot of

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Speaker 2: speculation that one of her colleagues, a man named Andrew Hasty,

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Speaker 2: is basically preparing for a leadership challenge of some sort.

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to kind of think about the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's not necessarily a brand new idea in

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Speaker 1: terms of the last couple of weeks that Susan Lee's

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Speaker 1: leadership may be vulnerable. But what is new is that

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Speaker 1: we have a name to put to the speculation. There

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Speaker 1: has been weeks of instability, there have been weeks of

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Speaker 1: questions about her tenure, But where has the speculation come

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Speaker 1: from about Hasty specifically?

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Speaker 2: So, Andrew Hasty is from the conservative wing of the party,

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Speaker 2: just like Angus Taylor, who was the main contender after

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Speaker 2: the election for the leadership, and also just like Peter

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Speaker 2: Dutton was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and a quick note there that within our major

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Speaker 1: political parties the system works this way that you know,

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Speaker 1: even in labor and as well. In the coalition there

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Speaker 1: are factions. There's a complex kind of method and madness

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Speaker 1: to the party caucus, and we see people further to

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Speaker 1: the left and further to the right in each major party.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Andrew Hasty is in a different faction to

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Speaker 2: Susan Lee. Now, quick context on Andrew Hasty, a very

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Speaker 2: quick bio. He is a former soldier and he's currently

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Speaker 2: the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, which is all about domestic policy.

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Speaker 2: It's quite widely reported in the media that he wasn't

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Speaker 2: stoked with that appointment. It was said that he kind

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Speaker 2: of wanted to expand outside of security and defense, possibly

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Speaker 2: wanted something like economics or education or health. But he

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Speaker 2: didn't get that. And I think that's important context just

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Speaker 2: to kind of set the scene that his relationship with

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Speaker 2: Susan Lee is perhaps already on rocky grounds.

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Speaker 1: But Billy, am I right in thinking him being appointed

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Speaker 1: to the shadow cabinet is of significance and of itself.

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Speaker 1: Not all ministers are appointed to the shadow cabinet that

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Speaker 1: is perceived to be you know Susan Lee's top list

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Speaker 1: of her most relied upon senior ministers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, But I would also say that there could

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Speaker 2: be other factors that play there, like the factions, politics

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Speaker 2: within the politics. It's all gets very confusing, but definitely

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Speaker 2: he was still given a role. Then in the past

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Speaker 2: month or so, or even just in the past couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks, he has started posting things to his social

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Speaker 2: media accounts and he's also started giving radio interviews where

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Speaker 2: he's kind of talking out of line with the official

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Speaker 2: party positions and saying things that don't completely align with

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Speaker 2: what his colleagues are saying. So, for example, he has

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Speaker 2: started saying that the Coalition should abandon net zero if

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Speaker 2: they are elected at the next election.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you what the key risks to our way

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Speaker 3: of life is. The real risk is from these alarma, scientists, lobbyists,

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Speaker 3: grifters and foreign businesses who benefit from the net zero transition.

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Speaker 3: Since we've signed up to net zero, gas prices have

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Speaker 3: gone up forty percent for Australian families, Electricity prices have

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Speaker 3: gone up thirty percent for Australian families, and all the

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Speaker 3: while we keep exporting coal, gas and other minerals. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's the hypocrisy is breathtaking.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is a retric that has been pushed by

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Speaker 1: a fair few Nationals politicians in recent weeks, but it's

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Speaker 1: rarer for a Liberal politician to kind of step outside

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Speaker 1: away from the party line.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Can you remind us quickly really what net zero actually means? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So net zero is the goal to reach a balance

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Speaker 2: where the amount of green house gases that are being

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Speaker 2: emitted into the atmosphere is the same as the amount

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Speaker 2: being removed. And in Australia we have a goal to

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Speaker 2: achieve net zero by twenty fifty and the Coalition went

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Speaker 2: to the last election saying that they would maintain that goal. Okay, However,

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Speaker 2: it has now emerged as a key part of contention

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Speaker 2: within the Liberal Party and the National Party, So I

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Speaker 2: guess within the Coalition as a whole about whether or

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Speaker 2: not they will keep it under this new era under

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Speaker 2: Susan Lee and Andrew Hasty is at the forefront of

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Speaker 2: saying the party should abandon it. And not only is

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Speaker 2: he saying that they should abandon it, he's basically alluded

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Speaker 2: to saying that he would actually quit the front bench,

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Speaker 2: so he would quit his position as the Shadow Home

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Speaker 2: Affairs Minister if the party decides to stick with net zero.

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Speaker 2: On Sky News earlier this month, when he was asked

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Speaker 2: if he would quit, he said, it's a hypothetical question,

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Speaker 2: but fundamentally, I wouldn't be much used to the coalition

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Speaker 2: if I'm out the front trying to sell a policy

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Speaker 2: I don't believe in Billy.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty unusual, isn't it to see a politician go

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Speaker 1: against their leader in such an explicit way, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is what is important to remember

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Speaker 2: here that in politics, or at least within parties, usually

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Speaker 2: it is this rule that you have to stick to

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Speaker 2: the party line position, which usually is set by your leader.

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Speaker 2: And so what's unusual about this is that he's having

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Speaker 2: these discussions with his leader kind of publicly instead of

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Speaker 2: internally or privately, or perhaps he's having them internally, but

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Speaker 2: it's rare that he's also having them so publicly and

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Speaker 2: that they are disagreeing so publicly.

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Speaker 1: And as a seasoned senior minister and politician, he would

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Speaker 1: know the impact of those kind of public comments definitely

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Speaker 1: destabilizing the perception of stability in the party.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I also think what's interesting is that in Australia,

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Speaker 2: I mean not in recent years, but if you look

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Speaker 2: at kind of from the Gillard Rudd years, we went

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Speaker 2: through such a period of politics within parties and.

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Speaker 1: This perception of backstabbing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that none of the politicians within their own

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Speaker 2: party could agree with each other, and it was really

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Speaker 2: criticized by the public, you know, the public saying, you

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Speaker 2: guys kind of need to get your stuff together because

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Speaker 2: it's quite confusing that none of you are united.

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Speaker 1: And then in the years sort of post that era,

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Speaker 1: there has been a concerted effort from the major parties

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Speaker 1: not to be seen to have that disharmony within their ranks.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's definitely seen as you know, disagree privately but

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Speaker 2: put on a united front, and that is not what

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Speaker 2: is happening right now with the coalition.

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Speaker 1: So that's net zero. We know how Andrew Hasty feels

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Speaker 1: about that policy agenda specifically, but has he spoken out

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Speaker 1: on any other areas contradicting Susan Lee elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll go through some of the other ones quickly.

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Speaker 2: So he's also been very outspoken on immigration and saying

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Speaker 2: that we need a slash net overseas migration. He's also

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Speaker 2: spoken a lot about a desire to manufacture things in

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Speaker 2: Australia and the way that he has spoken about those

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Speaker 2: two issues have been along the more conservative lines than

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Speaker 2: what the rest of his party has been saying.

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Speaker 1: Okay, got it. And so then back to this kind

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Speaker 1: of speculated leadership spill, his alleged ambition to become leader.

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Speaker 1: What do we know most recently about that?

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Speaker 2: So, at the time of recording, the most recent time

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Speaker 2: that he was asked about it was on Thursday morning

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Speaker 2: on TWOGB.

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Speaker 1: A Sydney radio station.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and when asked if he was happy under the

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Speaker 2: leadership of Susan Lee, he said, look, I support Susan.

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Speaker 2: Anyone who's speculating otherwise is being mischievous. My main concern

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Speaker 2: is that the center right is fragmenting, So kind of

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Speaker 2: shutting down the speculation, but still kind of hinting that

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Speaker 2: he's not sure that the right side of politics is

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Speaker 2: working at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's still a kind of provocative or inflammatory suggestion.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And then when the host pushed him on this

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Speaker 2: and asked if he has fear for the future of

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party specifically, he said yes. He said, I

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Speaker 2: think unless we get our act together, we're going to

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Speaker 2: be potentially in further decline and perhaps one day extinct.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty strong statement saying that at the way

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Speaker 2: we're going, we actually could be extinct as a political

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Speaker 2: movement in this country.

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Speaker 1: When we are a country with a two party system.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he also said that's why what we do over

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Speaker 2: the next two years is so important. And there he's

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Speaker 2: referring to the timeline of when the next election will

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Speaker 2: be because in Australia we have three year cycles.

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Speaker 1: You can really understand, Billy, I think where this speculation

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Speaker 1: has come from when you look at that suggestion. He's

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Speaker 1: not saying that he is happy with how things are going.

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Speaker 1: He's not suggesting that it's all sunshine and rainbows in

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Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. And you know whether or not he

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Speaker 1: has ambitions. Clearly there is still a lot of instability.

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Speaker 1: So where does all of this leave us.

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Speaker 2: Billy, Essentially, it's a watch and wait. I think the

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Speaker 2: main thing to keep an eye on is when the

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Speaker 2: Liberal Party announces their energy policy, because that is clearly

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Speaker 2: the one causing the most division amongst the party and

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Speaker 2: amongst the coalition, and clearly, either way they go, it

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Speaker 2: appears they will be upset within the party and that

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Speaker 2: could potentially result in a leadership spill.

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Speaker 1: Do we know when to expect that energy policy.

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Speaker 2: They have not given us an any timelines. I think

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Speaker 2: I presume that we will get that policy after we

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Speaker 2: get the final report that I mentioned earlier that will

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Speaker 2: explain what exactly went so wrong for the coalition at

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Speaker 2: that election. So I think it's after they do that

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Speaker 2: post mortem that they'll then look at what the future

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Speaker 2: looks like.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Well, we will keep our eyes closely on the future,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like it could be a throwback to

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Speaker 1: the twenty ten. When you say the words leadership's phil

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Speaker 1: I think that gets everyone's attention. Philly. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: so much for breaking that one down for us. Thank

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Speaker 1: you and thank you for listening to today's episode. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back a little later on with your afternoon news headlines,

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Speaker 1: but until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 3: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda

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Speaker 3: Bungelung Kalkotin woman from Gadigl Country.

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Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 2: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 2: all Aboriginal and toy Straight island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 2: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 2: past and present,