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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: answers Now.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that we love about the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families podcast is we get to talk about serious things

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Speaker 1: that help us to be better parents. We don't always

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Speaker 1: talk about serious things, as you discovered last week with

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Speaker 1: This Week in Parenting, but we do talk about some

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Speaker 1: stuff that really matters, especially the science. My background is, oh,

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Speaker 1: I've got a PhD in psychology. I really care about

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Speaker 1: what the latest science tells us. Once a month we

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Speaker 1: dive into the latest peer reviewed, scholarly empirical evidence that's

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Speaker 1: come across my desk that I think can help all

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Speaker 1: of us to be better parents. Today it's no exception, Kylie.

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Speaker 1: We have two studies to dive into. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to try and cramp too much in because both of

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Speaker 1: these matter. What if we got lined up today.

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Speaker 2: There's new research out of Western Australia about how screens

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Speaker 2: are having a negative impact on our young kids. And

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Speaker 2: our second story today we talk about how you feel

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Speaker 2: about being at school actually affects your well being, not

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Speaker 2: just while you're at school, but well into adulthood.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so two big studies to discuss let's start with

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Speaker 1: screen time. Over the years, I've kind of flip flopped

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Speaker 1: a fair bit around whether or not screens are really

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Speaker 1: bad or not for kids. I've never suggested that they're good,

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Speaker 1: but I've kind of had this belief that it depends

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Speaker 1: on how you use them. It's probably not the end

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Speaker 1: of the world if you kids are using a screen,

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Speaker 1: and we shouldn't get two worked up about it. In

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Speaker 1: the last little while, I've really shifted. I've had a

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Speaker 1: profound shift. Screens are the new smoking. I'm convinced of it.

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Speaker 1: The more research evidence we're seeing come across our desk,

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Speaker 1: the more I believe that fundamentally screens are crippling our children.

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Speaker 1: We've got loads of evidence now around teens and well being.

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Speaker 1: But this research, like you mentioned out of Western Australia

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Speaker 1: is looking at screens and kids between one and three

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Speaker 1: years of age.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you walk me through the study.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a really well designed study, what

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Speaker 1: we call a perspective study. A lot of studies are retroactive.

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Speaker 1: They're focused on saying to somebody, can you try and

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Speaker 1: remember what happened last week? Tell us all the times

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Speaker 1: that this thing happened. We know that memory is terribly faulty.

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Speaker 1: The best studies we can do what we would call

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Speaker 1: a prospective study, So.

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Speaker 2: It's happening in real time, you're recording as it's happening.

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Speaker 1: Precisely, that's exactly right. So this is an Australian study.

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Speaker 1: It's perspective and it's what we call a cohort study,

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Speaker 1: so a large number of kids all from the same

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Speaker 1: age group, all the same age or going through this

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Speaker 1: at the same time. So we've got an Australian prospective

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Speaker 1: cohort study. And the researchers have used advanced speak recognition

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Speaker 1: technology to capture young children's screen time and the home

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Speaker 1: language environment. On a typical sixteen hour day, kids are

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Speaker 1: asleep for eight hours, well hopefully they're asleep for more

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Speaker 1: than that, but basically for the sixteen hours that they're

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Speaker 1: recording data, we've got two hundred and twenty families. They're

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Speaker 1: being recorded live in the home at twelve months, eighteen months,

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Speaker 1: twenty four months, thirty months, and thirty six months of age.

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Speaker 1: And this happens from twenty eighteen right through to the end

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Speaker 1: of COVID and the researchers looked at a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: They looked at technology usage and then focused on these

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Speaker 1: three things. Number one, how many adult words are being spoken?

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Speaker 1: Number two, how many child vocalizations are being made because

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Speaker 1: they're young kids, so they're not always talking. And number three,

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Speaker 1: how many conversational turns occurred. The short version of this

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Speaker 1: is we're going to go into the house, we'll see

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Speaker 1: what technology is being used, and we're going to see

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Speaker 1: how much parents and children are interacting in terms of

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Speaker 1: the words that they're speaking, the vocalizations that are coming up,

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Speaker 1: and the conversational aspects of the interactions.

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Speaker 2: So what did they actually find.

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Speaker 1: The reason that we're talking about this on the doctor's

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Speaker 1: desk is because these findings I think are super important. Basically,

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Speaker 1: as screen time goes up, there is a whole lot

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Speaker 1: less of parent child talk. Largest decreases were seen as

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Speaker 1: the kids were older, at thirty six months, which I

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Speaker 1: mean this is such an integral time for kids to

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Speaker 1: be talking to their parents and engaging with them. What

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Speaker 1: the research has found was this, let me read this,

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Speaker 1: an additional minute of screen time. So for every minute

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Speaker 1: of screen time, it was associated with a reduction of

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Speaker 1: six point six adult words per minute reduction of four

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Speaker 1: point nine child vocalizations per minute and one point one

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Speaker 1: conversational turns per minute. Let's extrapolate that across a day.

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Speaker 1: We're looking at the average three year old in a

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Speaker 1: screen saturated home. When that screen is on, they're missing

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Speaker 1: out on more than eleven hundred adult words. They're missing

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Speaker 1: out on the opportunity to make at least eight hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty noises of vocalizations, and they're missing out on

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Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety four conversational turns per day. Stretched

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Speaker 1: across a month, thirty three thousand words, twenty five thousand vocalizations,

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Speaker 1: almost six thousand conversational turns over a year. Can you

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Speaker 1: imagine what those numbers are? Absolutely staggering.

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Speaker 2: So we've talked about screen time and the damage that

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Speaker 2: it plays in our kids' lives for lots of different reasons,

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Speaker 2: but this specifically dealing with their language development. What does

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Speaker 2: it all mean?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So there's another study that we talked about last

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Speaker 1: year that I think is really important and kind of

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Speaker 1: dovetails nicely with what we're talking about here. In that study,

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Speaker 1: researchers looked at kids who are read to by their

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Speaker 1: parents versus kids who are not read to by their parents,

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Speaker 1: And at the end of the year, if parents will

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Speaker 1: just read to their kids every day, the kids who

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Speaker 1: aren't being read to are missing out on literally a million,

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Speaker 1: maybe two million words of adult to child interaction per year,

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Speaker 1: and the researchers were able to essentially peg that to

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Speaker 1: developmental delays or, if not delays, academic outcome reductions. In

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Speaker 1: other words, no matter what we're looking at in terms

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Speaker 1: of our children's development, hearing more language, having more interaction,

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Speaker 1: conversing more, it makes a difference for our children's development

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Speaker 1: and well being. The central thing here is that when

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Speaker 1: we've got screens on in the home, our kids aren't

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Speaker 1: talking with us, they're not engaging with us, and they're

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Speaker 1: missing out on those woods. So there's the social aspect,

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Speaker 1: there's the cognitive aspect, there's the language aspect, there's the

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Speaker 1: developed metal aspect. There's so much going on here, and

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Speaker 1: the study didn't even measure parental mobile phone usage. So

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Speaker 1: it's likely that this is an underestimate technoference is real

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Speaker 1: and it's hammering our kids development.

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Speaker 2: So what does this actually mean in practice for parents?

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Speaker 1: All right? So, actually, before we talk about what it means,

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Speaker 1: in practice. I want to give one more concrete example

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Speaker 1: of why this matters. There was a Japanese study that

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Speaker 1: came out right at the very end of last year

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Speaker 1: showed something similar In this one, another cohort study fifty

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Speaker 1: nine hundred and eighty kids looking at how television and

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Speaker 1: DVD screen time affected developmental scores, and what they found

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Speaker 1: was that as one goes up, the other one goes down.

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Speaker 1: It's like a seesaw. If you want your little want

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Speaker 1: to be a chatterbox instead of a screen surfer, we

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Speaker 1: need to lay down the ground work really early to

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Speaker 1: do the trick. Basically, they found that screen time at

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Speaker 1: age one and two in Japan was associated with lower

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Speaker 1: developmental scores at ages two and three. This is not good. Like,

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Speaker 1: this is really not good. What does it mean in practice?

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Speaker 1: To answer a question number one, At the risk of

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Speaker 1: being really blunt and offending people, parents have got to

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Speaker 1: stop seeing the screen as a pacifier a babysitter. It's

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Speaker 1: just not good for the kids. Period. Back in them

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Speaker 1: bad old days, back before we had iPads and screens

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, if Mum had to have

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Speaker 1: a shower, she didn't say, oh, here's an iPad, Mum

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Speaker 1: just had a shower, and the child maybe pulled all

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Speaker 1: the tupple out of the cupboard or maybe did something

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Speaker 1: that they weren't suposed to, but most of the time

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Speaker 1: they didn't. Most of the time they were just kids

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Speaker 1: being kids, and they were Okay. We've kind of, well

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Speaker 1: not kind of. We've got to get back to that

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Speaker 1: so that the kids can learn how to navigate life

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Speaker 1: for three minutes while their parents go to the bathroom

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Speaker 1: and they'll be okay. So the first thing is we've

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Speaker 1: just got to get screens out of our kids' hands. Secondly,

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Speaker 1: I think we've got to work extra hard to offset

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Speaker 1: the impact of screens by finding more opportunities to speak

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Speaker 1: with and engage with our kids. Pick up that baby,

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Speaker 1: carry them around. I did this with our little grand

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Speaker 1: daughter just the other day. I held her and I thought,

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Speaker 1: I said to it, we haven't given you the tour yet.

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Speaker 1: You've been to our house a few times, but you

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Speaker 1: haven't had the tour. And so I gave her a

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Speaker 1: great big caddle and I carried her from room to room,

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Speaker 1: and I pointed out the mirror and the door handle,

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Speaker 1: and I showed it how it all worked, and pointed

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Speaker 1: at the light switch and showed her how a light

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Speaker 1: switch works, and kind of just walked her through the house.

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Speaker 1: Now she's not even six months old yet, but that's

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Speaker 1: beside the point. It's about the conversation. It's about the engagement.

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Speaker 1: What I noticed, even at six months old, every time

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Speaker 1: I pointed her eyes followed my finger like she was

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Speaker 1: engaging with me. She loved it, and she would look

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Speaker 1: at me and smile when I would describe something to her.

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Speaker 1: Our kids need us to take opportunities to talk at

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Speaker 1: every every chance we get. We've got to offset the

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Speaker 1: impact of screens. And there's a third thing that I'm

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Speaker 1: going to mention, and that is it's on us. We've

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Speaker 1: got to put our phones down. These unhappiness machines are

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Speaker 1: killing our connections.

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Speaker 2: What I find interesting about this study is the decreases

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Speaker 2: the children got older. Right when I think about the

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Speaker 2: developmental milestones of our children. Three year olds are so

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Speaker 2: much fun to talk too. They're starting to work out

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Speaker 2: their vocabulary. They've got the capacity to share their feelings

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Speaker 2: and thoughts and ask questions. There are curious learners. And

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Speaker 2: yet the study is really showing that as parents, we're

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Speaker 2: disengaging more and more because they're actually I am going

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Speaker 2: to assume becoming more and more engaged in screen usage.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably what it is. We don't have

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Speaker 1: anything definitive but great work from Dr Mary Brush, and

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Speaker 1: I just think we need to make more noise about this.

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Speaker 1: Get rid of the screens.

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Speaker 2: Our second study all about how we feel about school

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Speaker 2: and how it affects us throughout our early adulthood.

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Speaker 1: There's a researcher that I've been following for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I engage with her from time to time. She's even

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Speaker 1: been on the podcast once or twice. Her name is

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Speaker 1: doctor Kelly Ann Allen. She's at Monash also quite a

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Speaker 1: senior research in a University of Melbourne as well, and

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Speaker 1: she's been looking at this thing called school belonging. She's

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Speaker 1: been on the podcast to talk about school belonging several times,

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Speaker 1: also known as school connectedness. It's like being part of

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Speaker 1: a club where you feel good about school, you like

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Speaker 1: your teachers, and you know that you're matter socially. And

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Speaker 1: previous research shows that it's a mental health booster right

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Speaker 1: off the bat.

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Speaker 2: So what does the research share in relation to how

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Speaker 2: we feel about school and I guess a boost to

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Speaker 2: our mental well being.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the more we feel a sense of connection

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Speaker 1: to school, like a feeling like we belong there, it's

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Speaker 1: tied to some really serious perks. Kids who feel the

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Speaker 1: school love tend to crush it academically, they have healthier minds,

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Speaker 1: they feel more connected socially during their teen years. And

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Speaker 1: how's this? So there's brand new data literally as of

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Speaker 1: now the PISA schools. You've heard of the Big PISA

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Speaker 1: test where we compare people from country to country and

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Speaker 1: see which school's doing the best and who's crushing it

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Speaker 1: who's not. It seems like the latest piaser round OFT

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Speaker 1: is pointing to school belonging as being an absolute game changer.

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Speaker 1: The OECD has started waving the flag and saying this matters.

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Speaker 1: It's tackling loneliness, it's tackling mental health woes. And here's

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Speaker 1: the kicker, the true power of school belonging extends beyond graduation.

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Speaker 1: So doctor Kelly Ann Allen has done this research that

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Speaker 1: shows basically, school belonging, the more your kids feel engaged

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Speaker 1: and protected and in at school, it's like a mental

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Speaker 1: health vaccine that protects them through the next decade or more.

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Speaker 2: Well, you would assume that if they feel connected at school,

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Speaker 2: there's a sense of community, and that community doesn't just

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Speaker 2: drop because they stop going to school. They finish school, right.

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Speaker 1: It does a couple of things when you feel like

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Speaker 1: you belong at school. Not only does it satisfy and

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Speaker 1: support that relationship relatedness need, it helps you feel competent.

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Speaker 1: You feel competent academically, you feel like you can problem solve,

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Speaker 1: get through things, figure stuff out. You also feel competent socially,

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Speaker 1: and because it feels nice to be there. It feels

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Speaker 1: like you're in control of your life, somewhat like you're

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Speaker 1: choosing to go to school. You're not there because you

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Speaker 1: have to, You're there because because you want to be there.

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Speaker 2: And I guess that when you feel competent and you

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Speaker 2: feel connected, you're also able to show up more authentically

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Speaker 2: as a person and therefore just feel better about yourself

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Speaker 2: in general.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, what the research has found is that not

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Speaker 1: only does that happen in the adolescent years, but right

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Speaker 1: up until the age of twenty eight. The more teens

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Speaker 1: felt like they belonged in their school environment, the fewer

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Speaker 1: mental health issues they had later on outside of school.

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Speaker 1: Like I said before, it's like this, It's like a

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Speaker 1: vaccine for depression and anxiety and stress straight from the

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Speaker 1: halls of high school, which is so hard to believe

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Speaker 1: when when you think about what school feels like for

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Speaker 1: so many of us. I know for me that wasn't

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Speaker 1: the case at all.

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Speaker 2: And I spent a lot of time with youth, and

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Speaker 2: it's not what they're experiencing either, exactly.

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Speaker 1: In fact, just the other day, I was with a

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Speaker 1: group of young men. They're all in grade eight and

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Speaker 1: grade nine. They were at a high school where I

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Speaker 1: was doing some work, and I had the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: spend maybe fifteen minutes in conversation with them. Because I'm

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Speaker 1: writing a book right now about bringing up boys, I

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Speaker 1: thought i'd ask them a couple of questions that are

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Speaker 1: front and center for me. But I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: a nice, easy question at the start so they felt safe.

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Speaker 1: We were building beautiful report. It was going really well,

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Speaker 1: and I said, so, guys, I got a quick question

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Speaker 1: for you, what's the best thing about being a teenage boy? Now?

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Speaker 1: When I asked teenage girls this question, and I do

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Speaker 1: it regularly when I'm running my presentations, and I also

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Speaker 1: did it when I wrote my book about teenage girls.

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Speaker 1: They start talking and don't stop. There is so much

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Speaker 1: that teenage girls love about being teenage girls. They're so

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Speaker 1: excited about life. And they told me in their surveys

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Speaker 1: and in the focus groups and in the interviews and

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Speaker 1: in the workshops that I run. I've got these eight

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Speaker 1: boys in front of me, and I say, so, what's

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Speaker 1: the best thing about being a teenage boy? And they

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Speaker 1: stare at me, shrug their shoulders and say, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And then they start talking about how when they're eighteen

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Speaker 1: and they've left school, that's when their life begins. That's

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Speaker 1: what they're looking forward to. So we talked about that

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Speaker 1: a bit and then I said, so, what are you

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Speaker 1: and is the worst thing about being a teenage boy?

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Speaker 1: Almost in Unison, Kylie, Almost in Unison. These eight boys

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Speaker 1: looked at me, and with genuine sadness and despair in

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Speaker 1: their eyes, they said, school. School's the worst thing about

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Speaker 1: being a teenage boy, at least for these eight kids.

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Speaker 1: And I see this consistently. I mean, I'm in and

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Speaker 1: out of schools all the time and talking with kids

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Speaker 1: about what's working and what's not. This is a consistent response. Now,

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Speaker 1: a lot of girls also feel disengaged, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: Kelly and Allen's research on school belonging shows that there

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Speaker 1: aren't really any gender differences in terms of the amount

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Speaker 1: of girls and boys who feel connected to their school,

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Speaker 1: but certainly on the ground, my experience has been that

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Speaker 1: the boys are struggling with it so so very much.

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Speaker 1: It's such a big deal.

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Speaker 2: So my next question is twofold, what does schools do

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Speaker 2: to help create the sense of belonging in connectedness? And

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Speaker 2: then how do we as parents support our kids in

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Speaker 2: this process.

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Speaker 1: So this is what I'm grappling with is I'm writing

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Speaker 1: the book, I'm putting the chapter together around this right now,

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Speaker 1: in the interest of time, I'm just going to share

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Speaker 1: a couple of really quick things, and everyone who's struggling

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Speaker 1: with this is going to want more. I acknowledge that

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Speaker 1: at the outset, this unfortunately isn't the podcast where we

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Speaker 1: can dive into all the detail. But number one, kids

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Speaker 1: are more likely to thrive when they feel like they

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Speaker 1: have a strong connection with their teacher or a teacher,

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Speaker 1: or a head of school or ahead of year or

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Speaker 1: a head of house or ahead of something, or well

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Speaker 1: being that they just need to have an adult there

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Speaker 1: who they feel safe with, and this boys and girl,

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Speaker 1: someone who knows their name and who cares about them.

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Speaker 1: We have got to make sure that we partner world

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Speaker 1: with schools as parents, so that the schools know that

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Speaker 1: we're on their team and that they're on our team,

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Speaker 1: and that we're working for the good of the kids.

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Speaker 1: We can't have antagonistic relationships, and we've got to find

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Speaker 1: that one person in the school who will be our

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Speaker 1: child's champion and he'll be there for them. That's fundamental

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Speaker 1: to a sense of school belonging. Number two, kids are

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Speaker 1: more likely to thrive when they feel that they're able

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Speaker 1: to be with a friend in class. It's so vitally

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Speaker 1: important that they feel like they've got a relationship worth

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Speaker 1: showing up to school. Four. How can you be long

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Speaker 1: when you don't feel like you matter? And number three,

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Speaker 1: the kids who are most likely to thrive are the

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Speaker 1: ones who feel like they have a reason for being

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Speaker 1: at school, like they can see their future there, or

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Speaker 1: if not their future at school, but their future through school.

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Speaker 1: That is, they see it as something necessary, something useful,

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Speaker 1: something valuable. This is the great challenge that parents and

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Speaker 1: teachers haven't supporting kids to feel good about being at school.

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Speaker 1: But Kylie, across the Doctor's Desk, we see well being

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Speaker 1: and academic benefits and social benefits and cognitive benefits, you

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Speaker 1: name them. The benefits are all there when kids feel

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Speaker 1: a strong sense of belonging at school, and that remains

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Speaker 1: with them for at least the next decade after school.

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Speaker 1: Based on this great new research.

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Speaker 2: I didn't particularly like high school at all. It was

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Speaker 2: a really, really tricky space to be. But I had

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Speaker 2: a couple of teachers who I just adored, and I

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Speaker 2: knew that they had my best interests at heart. They

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Speaker 2: would always check in with me. They'd give me a

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Speaker 2: smile or a wave if they saw me in the playground,

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Speaker 2: and I just felt like I madded And that was

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Speaker 2: really such a huge help in getting through those more

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Speaker 2: challenging years with our friends.

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Speaker 1: You know. The funny thing about that is I had

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Speaker 1: teachers who tried, but I had in school so much

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't allow it to let them in. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I disengaged from them even though they were trying. It's

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Speaker 1: so hard raising kids. So the wrap up of today's

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Speaker 1: Doctor's Desk Number one.

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Speaker 2: Keep those kids off screen.

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Speaker 1: No, it sounds like I'm banging the same drum, but

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Speaker 1: they need to do a number two and number two.

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Speaker 2: The way our kids feel about school has the ability

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Speaker 2: to impact them throughout their early adulthood.

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Speaker 1: Well being boosts from feeling like you belong the doctor's desk.

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Speaker 1: On The Happy Family's podcast, which is produced by Justin

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Speaker 1: Rowland from Bridge Media, Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 1: For more information about making your family happier, please visit

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Speaker 1: us at Happy families dot com, dot a u