WEBVTT - AUSTRALIAN SURVIVOR EXIT INTERVIEWS: Week 4 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.800 TV Reload the podcast last week Airline. Welcome TV Reload listeners. 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:08.720 My name is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.240 to get all the inside goss on the popular TV 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.560 shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:16.800 our TV sets are a major part of our home 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.599 entertainment and very little is known about how our favorite 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.320 shows get made. Each episode, I find guests that want 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.560 to dive just that little bit deeper into the shows 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.200 they're currently making, so that you can hear all their 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.159 exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names in 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.519 Australian television. I want to thank you for downloading or 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.839 subscribing to this podcast. I love hearing your feedback, so 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.280 make sure you leave a comment on your chosen podcast 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.640 platform and I will make sure you feel as included 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.000 in the production of this show as I possibly can. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.320 As you would know, I am obsessed with Australian Survivor 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.280 twenty twenty three and I'm doing the exit interview chats 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.479 for Heroes versus Villains. So this episode we will be 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.400 talking to the latest booted castaways from week four. First up, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.360 I have Jordi Hansen, who no secret is one of 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.360 my favorite contestants in both seasons that I've seen him in. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.039 Jordi re entered the Australian Survivor universe with the nickname 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.800 firmly slated as the Joker, beautifully selected as a villain 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.960 and one hundred percent a fan favorite for many Survivor enthusiasts. 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.240 We will talk massive idle fails and whether you can 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.160 ever play two sides successfully. We will discuss pieces to 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.880 camera and if they actually mean anything to how your 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.920 game is going. I really want to know if Simon 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.920 can pop out from his current deputy Dewy Roll as 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.000 the second in charge, wanting to be in charge. Jordi 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.119 will also share who he thinks could win and if 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.240 he would ever return to the Australian format again interesting. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.560 We then have Benjamin Law, who was another journalist to 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.840 be booted from the show, but he's also known for 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.240 his popular writing on TV shows, novels and theater. I 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.280 actually think of him as an LGBTI activist and his 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.720 name being attached to this series was very exciting for me. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.280 We will find out why he thinks people thought he 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.480 was shifty. We will discuss making the fake idol and 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.920 if he could have used his idle clue in a 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:09.040 different advantage. Benjamin will also reveal why he probably won't 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.680 return to the show and who most likely will be 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.919 standing in his way. Plus, Benjamin and Jordie both will 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.079 break down the fourth week of the series on Network ten, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.920 which will give you some pretty cool exclusives on what 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.320 actually went down during their epic time on the show. However, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.919 let's bring Jordan in now. I'm sure you're going to 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:26.680 enjoy his banter. 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.840 Hi, Ben, it's disappointing. I can't see your face. You 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.280 are always entertaining to be on a zoom win and 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.880 you've got such a beautiful set. I feel like it's wasted. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.280 Now, it's so wasted. And I've just been sitting here 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.240 waiting to have this chat with you, and now you 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.480 can't see it all. Anyway, I digress and we have 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.079 to get into this chat with Survivor. 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:46.000 Go mate. 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:50.120 Okay, So you came back to Australian Survivor and for 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.520 audiences it was really clear that you had changed in 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.880 some way. Did you feel like something or has something 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.919 changed quite significantly for us to have noticed that different? 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.600 That's an interesting question. Yeah, a couple of people who 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.560 have said that to me, And you know, it seemed 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.320 to me this whole, this constant thing saying, how is 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.720 JORDI the voice of reason? I know I get it 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.239 in some way, but also I feel like I was 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.000 always like that. Perhaps it's situational. This time I was 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.440 surrounded by a different situation and different people, people that 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.800 perhaps weren't so level headed and were acting on emotions 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.760 and egos rather than being strategic and having fun and 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.000 so automatically you, I guess you become the voice of 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.960 reason when you see through that sort of rubbish. I 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:40.240 don't know. 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.320 I mean, I loved you the first time round, so 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.200 there was no real change for me. It was more 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.960 my reading of it online. And then I guess you 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:49.640 did get to play the word of reason in a 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.200 really hectic situation at one point. You know, I guess 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.960 sometimes if everyone's behaving badly, some people can look better. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:02.120 But mate, I suppose so, Yeah, that was That was 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.120 a funny night, A very disappointing night that tribal counsel in. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.000 You know, the way that they spoke to each other 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.000 was uncalled for, and I sort of let them know 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:12.480 that I. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.039 Suppose, Well, some people have said Simon isn't doing anything 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.640 different from his first run on Austrain and Survivor, where 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.360 you have grown and evolved. You know, what does that 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.279 statement mean to you? I mean, do you think there's 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.560 some truth in that that Simon hasn't really changed his 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.919 gameplay compared to you. I'm maybe trying something different. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.719 Perhaps, Yeah, I guess so, Like I don't want to, 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.800 you know, I don't want to speak too negatively about him. 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.960 He does have a good heart. But I suppose him 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.159 and George are in the same boat. You know, Simon 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.960 didn't learn from not being the leader, and I took 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.200 advantage of that. You know, everyone knows early days got 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.480 the leader, and I saw he was more than willing 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.240 to jump on that train. And then George as well, 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.599 seems to forget that. In the end, your peers are 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.200 the people that vote for you on the jury. You know, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.400 they vote for you to win. You've got to play 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.280 a social game, and for some reason, George also didn't 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.440 learn from that. Here's me, though, sitting here at home 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.960 while they're still out there. You know, So having said that, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:13.560 my advice really means nothing. 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.560 The moment that you said I'm going to play both sides. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.160 I was like, no, Jordy, like I and my partner's 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.720 watching Survivor for the very first time, so like he's 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.800 never watched it before, and he was like, why are 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.040 you reacting like that? Why are you smacking your head? 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:28.760 Why are you saying no to Jeordie? And I was like, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.359 I don't know whether or not players can play both 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.880 sides successfully. What do you think? Do you think that 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.800 making that decision at that point to try and play 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:37.719 everyone was maybe a bad idea. 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.680 Look, everyone's got their own opinions, so as a Survivor fan, 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.200 you know there's there's a history of people not getting 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.760 that right. But also if you do get it right, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.320 it plays off. You know, it pays off. And if 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.279 it wasn't for that twist at that tribal council, it 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.920 would have paid off. But you know, I don't have 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:59.800 a crystal ball. I can't read the future. I did 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.480 not predict that there would be an immunity challenge within 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.120 a tribal you know, I didn't even know that was 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.159 a thing that existed. So if it wasn't for that twist, 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:10.239 the plan would have worked. 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:11.880 Honestly, I'm going to get back into this in a 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.720 little bit, but I just wanted to ask you, why 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.160 do you think that this series has been so amazing? 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.400 I mean, you should see what people are saying online 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.919 and that the ground swell that's happening. I mean, it 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.120 is the most enjoyable series I've ever seen. But why 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:25.560 has it leveled up in your mind? 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.280 That's a great question. I look for a lot of reasons, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.600 you know. I think that I'd like to think that 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.640 the game players moving to a new level. I'd like 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.599 to think that it's because of the players and the 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.760 way that they've learned how the game works and they 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.320 understand how the game should be played. I'd like to 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.760 think that's the case, rather than production. I would like 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:49.560 to think that's. 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.479 The case last night. This is my thoughts on this. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.200 I just think that you should have told the entire 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.680 tribal council that you both had idols and this wasn't 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.200 about your elimination. This was about which one one of 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.240 them was going to go home. I think if you 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.120 had been so convincing with that, you could have not 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.160 played your idols, which is what you were wanting to do, 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.120 but it would have been more of a clever tactic 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.120 to try and get them to scramble. 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:15.520 I guess perhaps you're right, Yeah, perhaps you're right. For me, 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.120 it was more so rather than holding someone over a barrel, 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.440 it was more so about forming an alliance. You know 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.800 that I was never going to play that idol. You know, 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:25.920 I had assumed that the numbers were going to be 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.240 split between Liz and I, and you know, that's what 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.400 we were told, and that we would end up sending 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.120 Sam home. Having gained new alliance members in Haley and Nina. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.160 I would assume that those girls would have maybe wanted 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.480 to start playing the game a bit harder, you know, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.440 and get out of the shadow of those fellas. You know, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.720 they were really hiding under the supervision of those lads. 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.000 And I wanted to make a change, you know, changing 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:54.200 the narrative. Let's do it, you know. But unfortunately, once again, 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.800 you know, my opinions may not be correct. They're there 0:07:57.840 --> 0:07:58.640 and I'm here. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.600 So well, so do you think if the moths were 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.440 a little bit different, So that were definitely was Sam. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.280 So Sam in your mind was going to is Who's 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:05.520 going to go home? That's what you were within. 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.040 I was pretty comfortable. I knew I was going to 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.520 cop some votes. You know, it was fairly obvious Liz 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.960 and I were the only two people that weren't jumping 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.600 on the hero train. So yeah, I had assumed that 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.720 the votes were going to be split between Liz and I. 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.640 I also thought maybe we'd have Simon. I'd also been 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.440 told that maybe Sean was interested as well, And as 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.800 we saw, Sean was interested right up until the last minute. 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.520 I was fairly comfortable to take that risk. But for me, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.280 regardless of whether I took the risk or not, it 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.120 was about creating an alliance. Sure, I could have woken 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:39.760 up the next day on that beach, but then what 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.840 you know, like I was still out numbered. You know, 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.760 I had one alliance member. I was shafted anyway, for 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:47.679 want of a better. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.679 Term, well, Sean saying that he was looking forward to 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.080 working with you, I thought, you know, maybe this is 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.160 the tease to the deconstruction of the meat train. 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.760 Well, yeah, and I would have thought that once again, 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.840 I don't want the guy. But every year I keep going, 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.079 why would you not? You know, I feel like I'm 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.080 saying sad thing I said last year. You know, why 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.959 just make a move. Let's do it. Let's break this up, 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.520 come on, like you know, but once again it's a snowsfest. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.520 But they see That's where I think it comes down 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.400 to the question I was asking you, and the reason 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.800 why this show has leveled up is when the show 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.240 first came on television, everyone was so scared to go home. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.160 They played safe and they played no big moves, and 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:27.800 for the audience at home, it just meant that it 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.120 wasn't as exciting where for you, you played big moves. 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.680 And you know, I think had you been in season 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.520 one doing this, you wouldn't have done that, you know 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:36.880 what I mean, Like I think, yeah. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.240 No, you're right, you are right, Yeah, one hundred percent, 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.640 You're definitely right there. Yeah, it's changed completely. You know, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.160 people know that. I think to be I would like 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:51.520 to think that people are making big moves and strategically 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:57.200 and intelligently and measured moves to impress the jury at 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.440 the end because they know what it takes. We've seen 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.200 after year when goats arrive at jury at the final, 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.240 at the final tribal, in front of the jury, they're 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.040 not impressed. You don't impress people just getting to the end. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:14.720 You impress people by being measured and making smart, striking decisions. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.679 And I think people know that, and I'd like to 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.840 think that's why, rather than you know, people doing it 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.240 to cause drama or you know, get attention. I hope 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.760 people are, you know, maintaining the purity of survival when 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.000 they make these decisions. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.360 Well, Shoannie looked a little bit pissed that that idol 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.960 was burnt. Did you owe her a more sensible plan? 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.880 That's what I thought. I thought, you know, maybe easy come, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.719 easygo scenario where you just were like, oh, hold, we 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.240 got these two idols, now, you know, let's just do whatever. 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.480 You know, let's I don't know, I just I wondered 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.400 whether or not you felt like you should have owed 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:48.760 her a better play of the idol. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.319 Sure. I think perhaps it's difficult for people to see 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.480 the situation I was in. You know, there were quite 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:01.240 literally moments where it was everyone talk and I'm just 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.760 standing there going like, I know, you guys are talking 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.080 about me, you know, and me and Liza just standing 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.840 They're going, we're in trouble here. We got to do something, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.600 so you know, sensible would be sure, play an idol, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.880 send someone home. But then what you know, like then 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.760 I'm just sitting there. The idol's gone, it's back in 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.680 play anyway. It's more so about rather than just having 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.600 another morning on the beach, It's about creating in a line. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.200 I think if people have an understanding of the game, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.680 they'll know that just another day on the beach doesn't 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.560 mean you're not snooked anymore. 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.319 But you know what's funny, though, is I love Simon 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.640 by the way, I love both of you. Your two 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.840 are so good in this season almost. I mean, people 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.120 talking about George, but I feel like I've been talking 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.280 about you and Simon Moore. And my only concern for 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.120 Simon is I worry can he ever really shake this 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.600 kind of Barney Fife Deputy Dufus connotation that he has 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.240 going at the moment, you know where you get what 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.280 I'm saying here, right? You know, he obviously had gone 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.760 to sleep every night with his line ready to use 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.240 and gold, and he'd said it a thousand times, and 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.520 then when he couldn't get it out, you could see 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.120 the frustration in his eyes. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.560 It just was, Oh, how funny it was that, Oh, 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.640 the poor bugger, the poor bugger, Like he's you know, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:21.280 his whole world is wrapped up in Survivor, and unfortunately, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.080 I think he's placing too much importance around his performance, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.400 you know, while the prize is life changing, I think 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.439 that character beats strategy any day personally. And I think that, 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.200 you know, because he's so wrapped up in it, he 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.160 finds out hard to see. Clearly, he can't see. He 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.600 doesn't have the perspective on the game that you need 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.600 to see. Pass. For example, Sean and Sam cooked up 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.880 last night getting him to hand over what he thought 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.240 was an idol, you know, like, mate, can you not 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.680 see how you're just being worked over? Like take some control. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.840 And that's what I try and sell tell people, and 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.200 that's sort of what I was preaching last night, was 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.120 don't back someone into a corner and expect them to 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.240 do what you tell them to do, you know, like, 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.120 at least have a dig, have a crack, you know, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.600 don't just bend over for the majority. At least try something. 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.280 I guess though, that Simon really only exists in the 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.960 survival world, and I guess that can be quite dangerous 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.800 in a way where for you, for some reason, the 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.440 way you've played, and I guess the media profile that 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.760 you've managed to create for yourself means that we could 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.600 see you in any format, like you know, you could 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.080 go on to something else and exist outside of that. 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.319 So I guess the pressure for him might be a 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.520 little bit stronger than you. I guess because you might 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:33.920 be closer. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.920 Really, that was lovely I mean to say about me, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.880 But yeah, I think that. Look to be honest, I 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.680 haven't I've not done anything. I'm not in control of 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.480 the way that the public perceives me. You and I 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.360 both know that the general public can decide however they 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.120 want to believe. They can believe anything they want to believe, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.360 you know, And it's not to do with me. I'm 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.160 just I just put myself out there, you know, and 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.400 I'm received how I am received. And Simon does it same. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.000 He puts himself out there and he's received how however 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.000 he has received, you know. And so in the end, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.040 I think true characters shine through and what's genuine comes 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.960 through I think as well. And people see through, people 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.120 see through it, people see through what you display, People 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.520 see through you know, you know, the idealistic image that 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.080 you portray. And so I think by just keeping it 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.320 real and you know, perhaps not try not even trying 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.040 to pretend don't even try and lie to the general public. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.320 They can see what's going on. 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.280 I agree, I agree, But I also think you are 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.760 in control of that. I think on reality TV, you know, 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.480 there's a lot of variables you could you're so freely 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.680 giving away your narrative and letting other people have that 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.120 in their hands. But at the very core of who 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.280 you are, no matter who you no matter how you play 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.400 good or bad, the audience will see through. They will 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.440 connect to you. Yeah, and that currency is much more 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.440 powerful and viable in a long game than just being 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.600 a big character in one season of Survivor. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.440 Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right, and 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.960 I you know, I think that maybe for up and 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.920 coming players, maybe that's a good lesson. You know, try and. 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.880 Though Geordie, it depends. Maybe you just want to be 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:16.000 on Survivor. Maybe you just want to have the Survivor showbag, 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.400 and you know you've got that for life, and you 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.360 can go back and undo the Survivor showback and go 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.320 through it and tell your friends. Maybe that's all. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.720 You You're right. Everyone's different, everyone's got a different idea 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.240 is about what they want from their life. But you know, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.080 I guess for me personally, I can only speak from 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.480 personal experience and my own personal opinion. You know, there 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.479 is much more going on in our world outside of Survivors, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.360 so you've got to think past it, you know. And 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.960 sure that doesn't mean don't get involved and don't put 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.520 your whole heart into Survivor. Like I gave everything I 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.840 had to the game. You know, when you're out there, 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.080 you've got to you've got to rip in. But but 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.800 that doesn't mean compromising who you are as a person. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.400 That doesn't mean Yeah, that doesn't mean saying lines or 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.840 acting or playing your character. Don't play a character. Just 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.880 go out there and be yourself and give it everything 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:04.600 you've got. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:04.840 You know. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.840 And that's still living out a Survivor dream. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.480 Well, it's because you know, if you are just playing 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.920 lines and you are leaning into a character, you're only 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:15.600 as good as the last line that you had. 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.560 So it's very true. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.640 You may have a couple of episodes where you don't 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:22.720 know that you haven't had time to script or something, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.320 or come out with something of a doozy. People go, ah, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.680 have you watched the vival last two episodes? Oh Simon, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.200 you know he's not as good as what he was, 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.160 you know, it dissipates very quickly. I was going to say, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.160 you know, there's a lot of idols again at play 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.680 and if you read the commentary board, everyone's like, I 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.760 hate that there's so many idols in Australia, where I 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:45.320 actually think this season we've seen an amazing use of idols. 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.040 But what are your thoughts with this? Do you enjoy 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.120 a season of Survival with a lot of idols or 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.200 do you think that we are using too many of them? 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.520 Oh? Look, I think it's great. Most of the time, 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.800 there are two in play on each beach, you know, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.240 after a certain amount of time, they're both released into 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.960 the wild, you know, And personally, I think that's a 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:04.920 good thing. It's always been a part of the game 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:11.560 and for me, they're an opportunity to enhance the game, 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.600 not hinder. They're there to enhance, and I think they 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.600 played a good, a positive role in this seat. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.560 Yeah. I think in some seasons though, it felt like, oh, 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.080 we can't lose this storyline, we can't lose this character, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:25.840 so we're just going to put an idol right in 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.399 front of them and the audience goes, oh no and 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.000 slaps the head and goes this is too orchestrated. We 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.359 I feel like with this season, it's not the case. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.479 It's not like they're just being used to save certain characters. Man, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.800 we've just lost you. You're like the Ricky Lee moment 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:45.800 of survivor losing at this point, Ricky Lee, every episode, 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.200 I have my non negotiables on people that you can't 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.040 go home, you know. And I didn't even feel like 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:53.800 you in the tribal. You were sitting there and you 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.679 were like, I'm just here to enjoy myself, and I 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.560 was like, I'm just here to enjoy myself. There's no 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.119 way Jeordie's going home. And then when you went home, 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.400 I kept waiting for the camera to turn around and 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.639 you to be shipped off to Hell Whole Island or 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.359 wherever it was going to be. And the fact that 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.119 you went home and it rolled into the promo for 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.680 the next episode, I was like, what the fuck's going 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.760 on now? Like the Ricky Lay moment. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.959 Oh made I know, I know it's a bit like that, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.440 but you know, on the Idols thing and on people 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.800 going home and people being saying, look, I'd like to 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.639 think I'm a survivor purist, you know, I'd like to 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.639 think that there's not too much of that going on, 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.240 and a lot of it is, and i'd like to 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.560 think that all of it is by chance, you know, 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.479 and these things just happen. Yeah, I think that's as 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:38.240 far as I'll take that. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:40.959 What about I know, you can't really say too much 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:42.880 without making it sound like you know, you're big noting 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:44.399 yourself or anything like I can't of get it. But 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.919 you know, there's also so much commentary about, you know, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.639 the camera time and the pieces to camera that everyone gets. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.080 I mean, you had a bunch of camera times throughout 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.480 the season, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're safe. Is 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.919 there any methodology behind the process of you know, how 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.280 much screen time people a get and those pieces to cameras. 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.800 That's interesting, to be honest. It becomes about the storyline, 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.800 and so it's not necessarily about who's going home who's staying. Like, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.800 there are a lot of people who have made it 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.400 this far and haven't had a lot on camera, and 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.560 you know, that's not necessarily down to how far they 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.080 make it or how influential they are in the game. 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.480 It comes down to the storyline and how they want 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.399 that to be shaped. You know that comes down to 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.920 the editing and production, and they do a good job 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:31.320 of it. I think they do a good job of it, 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:36.080 trying to accurately as best they can and also simplify it. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.159 What a lot of people don't understand is there are 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.000 a lot more complexities, a lot more details that get 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:45.000 left out, a lot of conversations that aren't shown because 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.080 it has to be kept simple and keep the storyline 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.439 down the straight and narrow so that people can follow 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.840 and understand. While there are a lot of people that 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.199 I'm sure we go, oh, give us the complexities, give 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:59.120 us the detail. For the average Joe Blow might go, oh, 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.360 this is too confusing, I don't know, switch it over 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:01.800 to maps. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.439 The best producers that I know are so good at 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.119 this sort of stuff, and one of them said to 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.800 me recently, it always has to speak to clarity of 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.920 the storyline, you know, and if you can speak to clarity, 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.760 it helps the audience. So as a player, if anyone's 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.480 listening to this and they're going to go into a show, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.840 if you've signed up to survivor, speak to clarity of 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.159 the storyline that you're there, because that's how you're going 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.680 to be seen. You could have an amazing conversation about 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:26.639 something personal that happened to you in your life off 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.000 the side of the beach and it do you know 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:29.359 what I mean? 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:31.200 Like, yeah, that's right. 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.280 Whoop? Do you do? Your audience is, you know, only 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.119 the cast survivor on the beach and a couple of 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.560 camera crew, But you are talking to the show. If 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.200 you are talking to the narratives anyway, I'm getting You're right, You. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.040 Are right, you bang on. Yeah, you've got to be 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.320 clear and if you're up to date with what's happening 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.439 in the game at that time. If you if you 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.240 are on top of it and you can clearly convey 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.760 and portray what is happening, they're going to want to 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:55.960 ask you more questions. 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.040 Yeah, well we're going to struggle. Now, we will struggle. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.080 Just before I let you go, one quick question was 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.400 your relationship with George? You know, would you have been 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.119 able to salvage that relationship with George because what he 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.399 did to you at that tribal council was fucked? But 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.399 how would that have played it? We've been robbed of 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:14.560 the end of that story. How would that have played 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:15.240 out in your mind? 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.480 Yeah? Look, it was a tricky one at that point 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.080 in time. You know, even after that tribal council, they 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.080 were they were being a bit of hard work around 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:24.960 the camp. So I think if it was to come 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.560 to another tribal council before tribeslop, it would have been 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.639 interesting to see those two go head to head. They 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.480 were still having at it, but you know, having the 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:38.400 tribes swap play out. George and I had maintained a relationship. 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.600 We'd realize that moving forward, because of the numbers, we 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.240 were going to have to work together, and I think 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.040 that showed in George and Shanee. There is no way 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.919 Shanne would have handed that idle over without George's permission. True, 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.439 you know, so we would have always come back together 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.040 at some point. But he can do anything at any time. 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.080 He doesn't always think through things fully. 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.160 I don't think as much as people realize. Everyone that's 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:03.840 come on the podcast normally asked them are behind the 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:05.600 scenes secret which you know we're not allowed to really do, 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.040 even though I've kind of dipped into that a little 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:08.800 bit today. But I was going to ask you when 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:10.919 you left the competition, who did you think was the 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.040 most likely to win? Not what you know now, but 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:15.040 as you walk out of the tribal council. 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.480 Likely to win, it's a tricky one of the returnees. 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.480 I would have thought Seannie would have had a good shot. 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.280 I think she's super intelligent and she makes great decisions. 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.520 And then everyone, instead of asking some other questions, I've 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.080 just been saying would you come back again? Of course 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.000 you would, because everyone would. But I feel like for you, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.560 it wouldn't be another season of Heroes versus Villain or 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:38.600 a tagline like that. I feel like the only time 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.800 we would see you come back to Survivor was if 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.840 it was a World Challenge, you know, it was that. 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.359 Huge Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'd have to be a big deal. 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:47.840 It would have to be a big deal. 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.359 We couldn't see it come back with another We couldn't 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.760 see another promo for the Joker, just in another series, 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.760 you know, which is like, I don't know, Underdogs versus 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:57.920 you know, the Deck of Cards whatever, you know what 0:22:57.920 --> 0:22:58.200 I mean? 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:01.800 Everyone wants to see that. You don't want to see that. 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:03.520 I don't want to see that. The audience doesn't want 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:05.600 to see that. I think you're right, I think it 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.359 would be it would be something pretty cool, you know, 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.320 any opportunity is a great opportunity with Survivor, and I'm 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.720 very grateful and I would of course be honored. I'd 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:16.240 be honored. 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.959 Yeah, well, I have the Jordi show bag, and I 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.919 think so fantastic on the show. I look forward to 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:24.240 following your story. 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.479 That's lovely. Thank you, Ben. I appreciate that, you know, 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.840 And in the end, I guess that's what matters, doesn't it. 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:36.560 You know, Sure, money, money is great, but I think yeah, 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:38.880 character beats strategy any day. 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.400 A great chat with Jordy and a good warm up 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.840 for things to come. With my next guest, let's bring 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.119 Benjamin Law into the pod. I hope you get some 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.840 really fun exclusives in this chat, and I hope you 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.919 enjoyed this episode. Hi, Benjamin Law. I'm very excited to 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.000 be unpacking this season of Survivor with you. 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:56.960 I'm stokes that I get to do this with you, 0:23:57.000 --> 0:23:59.520 Benjamin Lorris, because I feel like you caught me at 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.720 birth and death right like before everything started, and now 0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:05.320 that I'm the shriveled husk on the other side of 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.920 my tribal council, You've seen my whole journey. 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:11.520 I really have it. It was amazing to have that 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.200 chat with you before to sort of get your ideas 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.800 on how the experience must have been versus how you've 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.240 watched it on television. I mean, they're very different experiences. 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:23.680 So we're gonna get something different from you today. If 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:25.920 people have listened to that first chat, I'm sure. 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:29.720 Yeah, absolutely, no, well observed it is. It is a 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:32.240 very different experience, and you've probably experienced this as well, 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:35.360 which is like your experience of being in there versus 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:37.720 the narrative that comes out. But I have to say 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:41.239 in a good way, like obviously the show's edited, you 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:43.320 know where, we've got cameras on us twenty four hours 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:46.880 a day, So to actually craft something like the Shakespearean 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:50.800 Greek tragedy level like myth that we saw last night 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.360 at my tribal, it's like props to the editors because 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:57.320 obviously I had my own experience. But to see that, 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:01.720 you know, the cookie idols shoved in Simon's lovely but 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:05.720 to Sean's hands, to Flick's hands, then her her use 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:07.320 it and for me to see it, and I'm the 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.679 only one who who could have told her what it 0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:13.399 actually is except Flick, for whatever inexplicable reason doesn't trust me. 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:20.680 It's just claw face inducing TV in the most delicious way. 0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.880 So yeah, I'm a comedy writer and what I saw 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:26.000 last night was pure comedy. 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.240 I'm happy that you're laughing at it, because that's the 0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:30.440 better way to see it. But you know, in relation 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:33.840 to how you thought this would go versus how it went, 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:34.919 how do you feel? 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:39.320 It's really interesting to talk about expectations versus reality, especially 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.399 when you're going into something that you've never done before 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:45.639 and into a habitat to which you don't ostensibly belong. 0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:50.080 You know, like I'm an inner city kind of person 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:52.560 involved in arts and media to uses my brain, like 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.480 to put me out outdoors for this law, and like, 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:59.159 obviously I was reticent, but one of the things I 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:01.040 didn't expect was how how much I kind of loved 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:02.760 that aspect of it. Like I kind of loved being 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.040 outdoors and getting kind of gross. I mean, I didn't 0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:06.919 love the mosquitoes. I didn't love the fact that my 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:10.840 flesh started rotting. Other than that that was quite fine. 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.679 When I went in there and I clocked my fellow 0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:18.080 tribe mates, especially on the heroes, and like, wow, that's 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:22.159 an asset in a way. These jacked dudes who are 0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:24.840 going to push through all of these challenges. That's going 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:26.600 to keep me safe for quite a while. But your 0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:29.960 assets also your liabilities, and I'm like, it also means 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.400 that I'm on the outer in my own tribe and 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:36.800 that's really really tough. And when I clocked that, I thought, Look, 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:40.040 if I make it through this show and I'm not 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:42.920 say first boot, you know, the first one voted out, 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.639 then everything else is a bonus. And then when I 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.000 think of everything that I've gone through, like winning to 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:52.359 puzzle challenges, introducing Osland to Survivor with page and using 0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:56.560 Australian sign language between a challenge, they have been really 0:26:56.600 --> 0:27:01.520 like wonderful moments in a series of admittedly muliation after humiliation, 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:05.080 but other than that, I'm really stoked at how things 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:08.439 have panned out. You can't go into this game with 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:10.720 too many expectations. You need to be surprised. 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.840 Well, your analogy of the meat tray is iconic and 0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:16.400 we'll go down in Australian Survivor history. I mean, you'd 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:19.119 have to be happy with that contribution to this series 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:22.280 because it's the footnote that just keeps being used. 0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:27.640 Well, finally, you mentioned that Ben because obviously the meat train, 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:29.280 you though, I've been called the meat tray, but they 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:31.720 didn't know that I had given them cuts of meat 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.000 as well. That has now taken off to the point 0:27:35.040 --> 0:27:40.160 where it's actually David Zach Zacharakis's birthday today, So Zach's birthday. 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:43.280 And what I've discovered through Zaka and his girlfriend who 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:46.159 have now hung out with, is that the name, at 0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.479 least for him, has stuck. Like he is known as 0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.359 Backstrap to his mates, to his lovely partner Amy, like 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:56.120 the fact that I have introduced a nickname into his 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:59.600 domestic relationship and his friendship circle. Like, I'm pretty proud 0:27:59.640 --> 0:27:59.800 of it. 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:02.560 I yelled that one out before you said it, and 0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:04.640 I was sitting next to my partner and he was like, 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:07.240 how did you know? And I'm like, come on, look 0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:10.200 at him. He is bad the lamb Backstrap, Like it's 0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:12.480 just that's who he is, you know, He's all that 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:13.800 bad delicious. 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:17.440 Yeah. Favorite. 0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:19.640 You know you said to me before the show started 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.720 that you thought that, you know, heroes may do villainous things. 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:27.320 Were there times that you felt like you behaved villainous 0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:29.119 or maybe in a way that you might not in 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:29.760 the real world. 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:32.280 Are you kidding? Did you see me throw Shany under 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.760 the bus with no regrets or no hesitation whatsoever. I'm 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:39.000 just like, ah, Shani, forgive me, but today you're low 0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:42.160 hanging fruit, and I know I'm at the bottom. But 0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:45.160 at the same time, I do think that the narrative 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:49.800 that Shani was like a complete victim who didn't know 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:52.800 what was going on at that tribal is kind of 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:56.479 unfair towards Shanny because she was playing in the She 0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:58.040 was playing the game out there in a way that 0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:01.560 I actually really respect. So two of my favorite Shiny memories. One, 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:03.920 We're on a hammock together and I was like, dude, 0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:05.760 there are five of us on the bottom. It's going 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:09.160 to be me next, but soon after it will be you, Jerry, Haley, 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:12.760 and Nina. Right, and you've got these four strong meat tray. 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.720 And one of the things that doesn't translate well enough 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.840 into TV, I think, is how close Flick and Page 0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:21.880 are to each other and to the meat tray. Page 0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:24.640 and Flick are already talking about getting matching tattoos. By 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:26.800 this stage, I'm pretty sure Page has been invited to 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:31.640 Flick's wedding. The meat tray are absolutely enamored with Page, 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:35.760 and Page is absolutely worshiping of the meatray in, you know, 0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:39.560 for reasons that are quite obvious. So that tight six 0:29:39.680 --> 0:29:42.120 versus US five. I was collaborating with Shiny, saying, hey, 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:44.719 we need to make a move, like, are you in 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:47.680 on this? Also, people are watching us talk now just laugh. 0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:49.840 You're an amazing actor. Laugh like I've said something funny. 0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:53.440 And she was bringing it in a way. I was like, 0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:56.240 oh my god, you were really good at this. But 0:29:56.440 --> 0:30:00.000 then when it was clear that Shiny probably wasn't worth 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:04.040 working with me for several reasons, I got that instinct. 0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:07.040 My second favorite memory of her is we're just about 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:09.240 to go into that tribal and she's standing in front 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:11.480 of me with her torch and I'm standing behind her 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:14.239 with my torch, and she just looks to me and 0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:16.600 she just grabs my arm and she gives it a 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:21.840 lovely squeeze, as if to say everything's going to be okay, Ben, beautiful, 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:24.680 meaningful look, and I give her squeeze back, you know, 0:30:24.720 --> 0:30:28.120 conveying exactly the same thing. Each of us in that 0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:32.440 moment privately planning to write down the other person's name 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:35.160 and annihilate the living hell out of them. And in 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.360 that way, I say respect to Shanny, because you know, 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:40.880 there was a part of me that felt really, really bad. 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:42.520 I'm just like, oh my god, I'm just throwing this 0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.280 poor innocent victim under the bus. Shani is not a victim, 0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.960 and she is not not playing. She is playing out there, 0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:50.880 and I was just like, yeah, you wrote my name down. 0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:54.000 Props Todio, but also sorry, here comes on going traffic. 0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:56.320 He's the apology. Now, you know, the Idle clue was 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:59.640 interesting because you never thought it was a real idol, 0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:03.600 while Simon immediately did you know, what did you think 0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:07.520 of Simon's Adam and c that that disc was an idol? 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:09.800 I watched that and I thought, there, but for the 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:13.680 grace of God, go I because you know that it's something, 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.000 but you don't know what it is. And I guess 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:18.000 the only way I got out of that Scott Free 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:22.360 was I treated it almost like a maths exam in 0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:24.120 high school. You know, like in math exams you need 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:26.680 to show you're working out. And so when I'm like, 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:28.960 I've got this thing, and then I'm like what is it? 0:31:29.240 --> 0:31:31.560 And I'm like, I think it's an idol, but maybe 0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:33.840 it's not. It doesn't come with instruct Idols have always 0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:36.479 come with instructions. Maybe this is a trick, Maybe this 0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:40.080 is a cause you need to start voicing out things 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:42.640 because you know the game's there to trick you along 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:46.240 the way. It's never going to be straightforward. And coming 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.400 from the bottom of my tribe and knowing that everyone's 0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:52.160 out to get me, I don't assume that easy breaks 0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:54.640 are coming my way. I know there are booby traps 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:58.320 throughout this entire game, and I'm like, I just don't 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:00.320 think this is an idol, because if it is, that 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:02.840 came way too easily. Do you know what I mean? 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:04.680 I think it was clever of you. I mean, I 0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:06.360 didn't think it was an idol when I saw him 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:08.000 get that out. I didn't see the letter. I mean, 0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:09.640 I'm pretty what. 0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:11.680 Did you know it was? Or do you have any theories? 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:12.760 At that stage, I. 0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:15.680 Thought it would be that people would well for some reason, 0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:17.400 my brain lied to me, and I thought someone else 0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:19.840 had already found it before you did, or before Simon did. 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:21.280 And I thought there might have been three of them 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:24.200 that had surfaced somehow, and I thought maybe the three 0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:26.720 of them will put together. It may lead to you 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.720 getting a you know, a fast pass to the final three. 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:31.240 Oh interesting. 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:33.280 You know, I thought that there was something more to it, 0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:35.800 but I certainly did not think it was an idol. 0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:38.480 And that's why, even when Flick had it, I thought, 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:40.640 you know, she could have burnt that idol in front 0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:43.520 of everyone in that final and the tribal counsel that 0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:46.000 you went home, and everyone wouldn't have had the chance 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:49.440 for j LP to say it wasn't real. She would 0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:52.280 have just burnt it and done that on good authority. 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:55.120 And you could have also then followed her and thrown 0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:58.160 it in the fire in good authority, and then maybe Matt, 0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:01.600 you know, God bless you, and Turf would have gone home. 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:04.320 So I thought that, you know, I mean, when you're 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:06.520 a viewer at home, and you would know this because 0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:08.400 now you've been a viewer and now you've been in 0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:12.080 the show. These two things have very different relationships. But 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:15.080 that's how I thought could have played out and would 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:16.040 have made good television. 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:21.160 Yeah, well, look, I think the outcome that did pan 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:25.880 out with Flick playing the fake idol and me knowing 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:28.560 that it wasn't and I'm the only person who could 0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:31.680 have told her, like I thought that was just deliciously 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:35.080 yetted it like, of course it wasn't plotted because we 0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:37.239 were just muddling our way through it. But I'm like, 0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:41.360 you can not engineer a more hilarious plot line over 0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:44.320 Like I think four or five episodes like that, that 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:46.400 butt crack idol traveled far. 0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:48.560 How hot was that butt crack? By the way, at 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:51.200 that particular point, just that bit there, I was like, no, 0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:53.040 wonder They put it on the ad for the next episode, 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:54.920 so we got to watch it three times I think 0:33:54.920 --> 0:33:57.280 by the time it was all over. But it's very attractive. 0:33:58.480 --> 0:33:59.400 But some people. 0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:02.040 ASTI Survivor is the gayest show on TV, even if 0:34:02.080 --> 0:34:07.480 it is coded gay. That moment between Jeordi and Simon 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:10.000 is the most hilariously homo erotic thing I've seen TV 0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:11.320 in a really long time. 0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:14.600 You're an Australian Survivor fan, and you have obviously watched 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:16.359 the show and would have seen a lot of these 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:19.200 players before. Who were you the most shocked to be 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:22.400 playing with that they were different to how you expected. 0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:26.719 Oh, that's such an interesting question. Look, Shannon Guss, who 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.320 is like a Survivor expert, she often says, you can't 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.600 play the game as anyone as yourself. And I remember George. 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:34.839 We had a bit of an exchange out there. There 0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:37.239 was interesting tension between George and I that didn't quite 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:40.120 convey to the TV, but George did sit me down 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:41.920 and he said, Ben, one of the things you've got 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.719 to realize is who you are in the game is 0:34:44.760 --> 0:34:46.960 who you are in real life. And I actually do 0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:50.359 think he's got a really strong point there, because you 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:53.600 can't keep a mask up for very long out there. 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:57.640 And even George, who's such a big character, that is 0:34:58.040 --> 0:35:00.799 him on the island, and you know, I've hung out 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:02.520 with Georgian in real life. That's kind of him in 0:35:02.560 --> 0:35:06.560 real life, Like he is a big, bold character who's 0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:12.600 full of gameplay, big declarations, and an incredible political mind. 0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:15.879 And so I think, if anything, I was probably more 0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:18.520 surprised by the fact that who I expected them to 0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:23.000 be kind of matched my reality when I actually interacted 0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:25.920 with them. I was really looking forward to playing with Haley. 0:35:26.000 --> 0:35:28.440 We were really tired out there on the island, really 0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:32.320 looking forward to playing with Nina. We remain close outside 0:35:32.360 --> 0:35:34.160 of the game, even though she tried to murder me 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.839 several times, which is just hilarious. We both understand it's 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.200 a game. But Nina also fed me key bits of 0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:42.960 intel at key moments so I could help save myself, 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:44.520 which was really appreciated. 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:46.640 But the one thing I felt was that I felt 0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:48.640 like we didn't get enough of an explanation as to 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.719 why the Heroes tribe didn't seem to bond with you. 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:54.600 It's interesting there's been a few theories as to why, 0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.799 because I think a lot of audience members share a 0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:01.120 little bit of your battlement around that. So one is 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:04.040 obviously making a fake idol in front of everyone, and 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:06.160 by that stage, I realized my stocks were so low. 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.360 But Page had found this animal skull in the woods. Shanni, 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:11.640 I noticed, was really good at braiding. The three of 0:36:11.719 --> 0:36:14.880 us kind of like started this fake idol project together, 0:36:15.080 --> 0:36:18.600 And my recollection of Island time was we were like, 0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:20.520 oh my god, let's do this thing together. How can 0:36:20.560 --> 0:36:21.879 we make it better? How can we make it better? 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:24.640 Once we get to tribe swap, I'm so hero strong. 0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:28.680 Let's pass it to whoever has the fewest tribe members 0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:31.760 original hero tribe members and use this thing as a weapon. 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:34.560 And so I'm not sure if that actually made people 0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:37.920 genuinely scared of me, or whether they were seeking something 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:41.239 to confirm biases or hunches they already had about me. 0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:43.560 It is interesting. I know, Nina on the other side 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:45.840 of the game told me, dude, we were just really 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:48.520 scared of you, like we were paranoid around you because 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:50.840 you seemed smart. And I have to laugh at that, 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:52.560 because I guess I am smart in some ways. But 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:54.560 I felt like on the island, I was the most 0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:57.480 basic bitch, you know. I was just like, please don't 0:36:57.560 --> 0:36:59.520 hurt me. I just really want to help win challenges. 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:01.440 I don't want to be a liability to this tribe. 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:03.600 You want some rice, you want some coconut? Here, it 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:04.840 is here, it is. You want me to feel your 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:06.080 water bottles like there. 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:07.960 Was Maybe it was too in your face though, Ben 0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:11.080 like maybe it was two may Well put together. You know, look, 0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:13.520 I think, I mean, I still think of those sorts 0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:16.640 of things in all reality shows. You know, you have 0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:19.360 to be able to help people improve that you have 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:22.120 a worth in the game without making it look like 0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:24.600 you're doing it just to have people like you. Yeah, 0:37:24.600 --> 0:37:26.560 it could be hard. I assume there might have been 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:29.520 sorts of conversations that you're having with them that was 0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:32.279 unsettling them, you know, I mean maybe putting out out 0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:34.000 there or talking about what it is that you do 0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:37.239 might have been intimidating to them because of your intelligence. 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:41.400 I also think I'm just a really different proposition to 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:43.520 a lot of people on the island as well, like 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:49.160 you know, race, size, sexuality, Like there are a lot 0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:51.640 of people in my tribe who are very similar and 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:53.200 you see them ban to each other, and I think 0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:58.200 in extreme circumstances, you do flock to safety and familiarity, 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:01.319 and I'm a bit more of an unfa familiar, untested 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.400 presence to probably a lot of people on the tribe. 0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:06.600 And I'm not saying that accounts to everything, but I 0:38:06.640 --> 0:38:09.279 know that even with myself. You know, I got really 0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:12.799 tight with Hailey because we come from an academic background. 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:15.360 We read some like we not just read similar books, 0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:17.480 we'd read exactly the same novel in the lead up 0:38:17.880 --> 0:38:20.759 to shooting the show, like that's just spooky. So of 0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:24.160 course we had a lot to talk about, and we're 0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:28.600 not massive physical threats, so we kind of bonded together there. 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.719 But when you are playing as a bit of an outsider, 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.399 it's a bit of catch twenty two because you don't 0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:37.719 want to emphasize the things that make you different. You 0:38:37.800 --> 0:38:40.640 want to go that extra mile to prove that you 0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:43.640 are like them. And the way that I tried to 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:47.960 bridge that was through helpfulness and through humor. But obviously 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.160 that didn't work. But that's usually how I approach things 0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:53.279 in life, and like I said before, you can't really 0:38:53.320 --> 0:38:54.920 play the game as anyone but yourself. 0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:57.399 One of the interesting things that was said online, though, 0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:59.839 was that if one of the Meat Trait had made 0:38:59.880 --> 0:39:02.400 that idol, had been making a fake idol themselves, it 0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:05.280 would have been celebrated. It may have come across differently. 0:39:05.520 --> 0:39:07.360 I'm not sure if you saw any of that conversation, 0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:09.960 but do you think that it would have been celebrated 0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:12.719 differently and looked at differently if it was one of 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:13.200 the meat Tray. 0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:15.480 Oh look, we'll never know. But what I do know 0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:18.080 is things like, look, I overbid at the ouction. I 0:39:18.080 --> 0:39:20.799 don't even remember overbidding. I think that's less strategic and 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:24.000 more about me being bad at maths, but that immediately 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.640 caused suspicion for me, Whereas I think at least one 0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:29.879 person on the New Villains tribe one of the meat 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:33.840 Tray overbid on their reward and that was celebrated. So 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:35.960 I think, you know, none of us go into the 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:38.799 game neutral. All of us go with different kinds of 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:42.160 social currency in the game. And I guess I could 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:44.640 go into the game, you know, knowing how to start 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:47.480 a conversation with anyone. Being an interviewer like yourself, you 0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:50.040 have to bring that to the game. But other people 0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:54.560 have the advantages of being, you know, immediately someone you 0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:56.239 look up to, like I don't have much hype, But 0:39:56.239 --> 0:39:58.440 if you've got hype, people are literally looking up to 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:02.040 like immediately they see you like a leader and do 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:04.719 not want to play against you. And also you flock 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:06.239 to where the strength is, like I don't have that 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:09.319 physical strength. My whole thing, especially in that phase of 0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:12.160 the game, is please do not be a liability to 0:40:12.280 --> 0:40:15.040 these athletes, like, do not be the one who stacks it. 0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:18.400 Don't be the one who gets hospitalized poor Jackie and George. 0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:22.520 Just be the one who can be helpful and funny 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:26.120 out there while also hopefully proving your worth with the 0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:29.680 challenges which I think you know two puzzle challenges and 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:32.040 being instrumental to solving them. I was just like, well, 0:40:32.040 --> 0:40:34.480 hopefully have proven my worth. Hopefully I have proved my worth, 0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:35.320 but no dice. 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:37.359 Well, just quickly before we move off that though, how 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:37.880 did you know that? 0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:38.360 The Like? 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:40.640 That was interesting that someone was like he knew that 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:42.600 what an idol looked like, you know, he knew that 0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:46.239 it was green this year, Meena, I said that, yeah, 0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:47.960 And I thought that was a really interesting thing for 0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:50.239 her to say at that point, because how did you 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:52.280 know that that? I mean, you were building an idol 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:53.800 that looked exactly the same as the others. 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.640 How did that happen? Is I genuinely didn't know what 0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:59.360 an idol looked like because every season the looks of 0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:00.400 the idle change. 0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:00.880 They do. 0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:03.360 All I knew was like, if we make something that 0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:06.239 looks convincingly like an idol, and we just happened to 0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:08.680 have this green stone on our bag, and like, rip 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.400 off that stone, turn it into the idol, wrap it 0:41:11.480 --> 0:41:13.560 up with a skull. I know how to do arts 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.920 and crafts, shiny braid, give me the skull flick. You 0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:19.120 found something in the woods, let's add it to it. Like, 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:21.920 I didn't know what an idol looked like at that stage, 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.680 So it's interesting that they leapt to that conclusion that 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:25.279 I did. 0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:27.120 I thought it was clever. I thought it was clever 0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:29.759 that they did. When you do a social experiment like this, 0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:33.160 you do you do hear contestants say, you know, this 0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:35.799 feels a lot like high school? You know? Was that 0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:38.239 the case for you? And? Well, I guess how did 0:41:38.280 --> 0:41:41.640 it feel being back at school as an LGBTO warrior 0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:44.239 like yourself in twenty twenty three, Because no offense to 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:47.280 you and I, but we went to school many years ago. 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:51.719 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, many many years ago. Well look, 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:54.400 and to that point, I think after Jerry, I might 0:41:54.440 --> 0:41:56.680 have been the second oldest person on the heroes tribe. 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.040 So it does show you, like I also had an 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:01.160 age gap that I needed to bridge with the other 0:42:01.200 --> 0:42:02.120 contestants too. 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:04.759 But was it like high school? And did the LGBTI 0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:05.920 factor come into play? 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:09.359 I don't think the queenness necessarily came into play. I mean, 0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:13.920 certainly the talk there was pretty heterosexual, and you want 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:16.880 to be able to talk about sex, but you're also 0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:19.640 aware that your conversations of sex are going to be 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:22.400 pretty confronting, like queer sex is just confronting to a 0:42:22.440 --> 0:42:24.400 lot of straight people. You don't get to have those 0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:28.120 conversations like the way the men talked about women out 0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:31.360 there is something that I haven't encountered since high school actually, 0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:35.720 and so I couldn't quite find a foothold. It's like, yeah, 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:38.680 tits like I'm not like I can't do that. I'm 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:44.040 not that person. So that was challenging. But I don't 0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:47.400 think it's like sexuality was like necessarily the main. 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:49.840 It just was more curious, Ben, because I was thinking 0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:51.839 about it in the sense of this is a real 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:54.120 social experiment and you are putting people back into a 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:57.279 situation where we as humans fall into line like we 0:42:57.560 --> 0:42:59.880 you know, we mimic things that have happened in our 0:42:59.880 --> 0:43:03.279 lie before. And I wondered whether or not Survivor in 0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:06.000 twenty twenty three represents what it would be like to 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:07.879 be in school in twenty twenty three. 0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:09.800 Well, it reminded me what it was like to be 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:13.040 in high school in nineteen ninety nine, which is to say, 0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:18.040 you know, jock's rule, and these are lovely jocks by 0:43:18.040 --> 0:43:19.560 the way, I love them and I get along with 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.960 them outside of the game, but it does mean that 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:25.360 you are on the outer and you need to find 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:29.640 other crafty or as others would say, shifty ways of 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:35.200 making sure that you survive another another day. And sometimes desperate, 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:38.840 desperate situations call for desperate means. And I was just like, well, 0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:40.840 if you think I'm shifty, I'll give you something to 0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:43.040 really think that I'm shifty about. But to that point, 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:45.560 I hadn't I hadn't actually done anything that should have 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:48.920 portrayed trust or made me question made them question my judgment. 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:52.319 But I do think when you're so conspicuously different, you know, 0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:57.799 I'm obviously such a different person, it's natural and expected 0:43:58.360 --> 0:44:01.200 and it's not an unfamiliar John to me to have 0:44:01.360 --> 0:44:04.600 people immediately be a little bit more cautious around you. 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:06.680 If there was more series of the Family Law, we 0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:09.160 could easily see you and survivor. 0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:11.560 Family Law season seventeen. 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:13.960 Yeah, and how do you write that on how. 0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:18.360 Well, there's way more material than what we saw on 0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:20.640 the screen. So and that's it's all here. 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:22.719 I'll catch up with you for a drink for that 0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:25.560 because I want to know. But we're talking very PG 0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:29.759 exit interview style of conversation. You know, you would have 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:31.840 brought a lot of new viewers to this series, and 0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:34.239 I saw that a lot online, people saying they came 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:36.200 to the show because of you, you know, But I 0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:38.840 wanted to know about your inner circle and what they thought, 0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:41.080 because I imagine that a lot of you're in a circle, 0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:45.520 you know, reality TV is outside of their bubble. What 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:47.480 did they think of Australian Survivor. 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:51.080 It's so interesting, you say. That's quite perceptive because a 0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:53.400 lot of people in my life are either like me 0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:56.320 who love pop culture and actually take it quite seriously, 0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:59.279 you know. In a way my PhD thesis, which sounds 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:01.680 so lofty phg theisis but it was kind of about 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.520 pop culture really and representation. So I love marrying those 0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:08.120 two things. I love to think deeply about shows like 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:11.480 Survivor because I think, like you say, they represent aspects 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:13.879 of the real world, like high school or the work 0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:16.719 or the modern workplace or your neighborhood. And I think 0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:20.480 Survivors also a deeply intellectual game. It's about politics and 0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:24.640 striking deals and strategy and maths, and so a lot 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:26.160 of my friends who are watching it with me for 0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:28.239 the first time. In fact, the bunch of friends I 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:30.960 was watching it with last night, which is my my 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.000 tribal episode, most of them had never seen an episode 0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:38.760 before and they were completely fascinated by it drew really 0:45:38.880 --> 0:45:42.040 strong kind of conclusions, had very strong opinions. I ran 0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:45.080 into another friend recently, Jared, who said he'd never watched 0:45:45.080 --> 0:45:48.680 an episode of Survivor before and very hilariously equipped, and 0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:52.279 now it's become my entire personality. I think people are 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:56.640 surprised that a reality TV, a reality competition TV show 0:45:57.080 --> 0:46:00.480 can be so smart. And for my screen in writing 0:46:00.520 --> 0:46:03.359 friends who might not work in reality TV, but they 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.520 work in drama in comedy, they're like, Wow, the drama 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:09.400 in this is incredible. And I think that's testament to 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:14.759 the producers and the editors of Survivor. They are the heroes, 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:18.920 the real heroes of this show in finding out. Okay, 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:21.440 this is a really good thread this week, let's follow 0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:25.360 this thread hard. We've got a protagonist, we've got an obstacle, 0:46:25.440 --> 0:46:28.680 and we've got an enemy, and we've got complications around them. 0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:31.240 If you saw everything that happened out there on the island, 0:46:31.320 --> 0:46:34.480 it would be like how I experienced it, which is 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:39.520 an absolute hot mess all about hot messes. But you know, 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:43.120 that's that's not a TV show. That's just you know, 0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:45.280 CCTV footage. 0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:46.799 You know. But that's the interesting thing. If you're going 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:48.480 to be on television these days and have a show 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:50.440 as good as this, You've got to be really smart. 0:46:50.520 --> 0:46:53.520 You've got to make this tight. You know, you go 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:56.520 back to seeing what reality TV look like two decades 0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:58.560 ago in the You need to be fast, you need 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:00.520 to be sharp, and you need to take people on 0:47:00.600 --> 0:47:03.680 a much faster journey than just allowing people to be 0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:04.840 in a glass box. 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.640 Yeah, this isn't as epic for a reason. You script 0:47:07.800 --> 0:47:10.960 epic stories, and this is what we've got for heroes 0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:11.680 versus villains. 0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:14.120 Well, the casting is brain just before you go, I've 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.520 been asking people, We're not what you know now, but 0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:19.160 you know, when you left the tribal council that night, 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:21.800 who did you think was going to win Survivor twenty 0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:22.359 twenty three? 0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:25.480 Oh well, who I think will win and who I 0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:28.120 hope will win might be two different answers, but we'll 0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:28.440 take it. 0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:30.080 Well. 0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:33.480 Actually, in some ways I could see Nina winning, and 0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:36.879 I would love for her to win too. She's got 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:38.600 a great story to tell her mother one as a 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:42.120 villain in Samoa. Nina's now at twenty two days, which 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.240 is when she was injured and out of the challenge, 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:45.880 and I'm a big fan of Nina. 0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:48.080 Okay, I'll take that. I love that. And then would 0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:50.560 you ever go back? And if you did go back, 0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:52.880 is there a way in which you would see a 0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:54.560 theme suitable enough for you to return? 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:56.560 So come back, I'd have to get it past my 0:47:57.000 --> 0:48:00.160 mother and my boyfriend, who both don't want the hospital 0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:02.279 and think I was very lucky to get through this 0:48:02.360 --> 0:48:06.000 season without having done so. 0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:06.360 So that's a negative ghost writer. 0:48:06.680 --> 0:48:09.600 They may look. I'm very persuasive, especially if I've got 0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:10.640 an idol around my neck. 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:12.799 That's the closest I've ever had to know, though. I've 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:14.880 been asking everyone as they've come out, and you know, 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:17.759 everyone's like, dude's got me back on there, and I'm like, wow, 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:20.719 so I was like crack cocaine. But yeah, I think 0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:23.960 that's the closest for someone saying no. 0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:26.719 No, oh, it's just I need to think about it. 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:30.920 Love the game. Though I love the game. My immediate 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:32.359 instinct is, what. 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:34.360 If the personal trainer said to you when we first chatted, 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:36.080 you said that the personal trainer didn't know you were 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:38.880 going into Survivor, but trained you like an athlete. Do 0:48:39.040 --> 0:48:42.799 they have any what's the word for it that Were 0:48:42.800 --> 0:48:45.080 they proud of you in there, thinking that they trained you? 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:47.480 What was What do they think of your time in there? Oh? 0:48:47.520 --> 0:48:49.839 I think they're just very pleased that my rotator cuff 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:50.680 is still attacked. 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:54.520 You were fantastic. I'm sure I'll see you. 0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:57.200 Take good care, let's later