Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week.
Speaker 2: I'm how would I describe a television set, oh Man,
Speaker 2: from a headline grabbing point of view, the hack producer
Speaker 2: me says one hundred percent put him in.
Speaker 1: Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris
Speaker 1: and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television.
Speaker 3: Yeah, great questions.
Speaker 2: The show's about the game.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of great television out there in Australia.
Speaker 1: But I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers.
Speaker 1: The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the news and casting agents
Speaker 1: they know from a casting point of view what they need,
Speaker 1: and editors because that's what we do as editors where
Speaker 1: storytellers them. Not to forget some incredible executive producers who
Speaker 1: are making some of the best TV content in Australia.
Speaker 1: I have been on the program since the beginning and
Speaker 1: it's kind of in my DNA. So thanks for joining
Speaker 1: me each week and I hope the podcast continues to
Speaker 1: give you real insight into the magic of te This
Speaker 1: week on the podcast, I have producer Chris Martin Jones.
Speaker 1: Chris has directed some of the most love scripted drama
Speaker 1: in Australia and as fresh from his work producing Back
Speaker 1: to the Rafters, a reboot of the acclaimed and award
Speaker 1: winning TV series Back to the Rafters, we will focus
Speaker 1: on this exciting new chapter for the Rafter family as
Speaker 1: one of Australia's most loved TV series returns to the
Speaker 1: small screen for the highly anticipated, brand new six part
Speaker 1: series Back to the Rafters, which has already premiered on
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime globally. We will also get an inside scoop
Speaker 1: on how the original run captured the hearts of the nation,
Speaker 1: plus the hurdles it took to bring back the cast
Speaker 1: and crew for this encore series. From Jessica Murray's exit
Speaker 1: to the recasting of her role, we will find out
Speaker 1: who Chris also relates to the most out of the
Speaker 1: Rafters and how COVID shut down production. There's also a
Speaker 1: really fun and Marnas a cute story at the end
Speaker 1: which is definitely going to brighten up your day. However,
Speaker 1: let's get started with today's guest. I'd like to welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast. It's Chris Martin Jones.
Speaker 2: I just grew up loving TV and wanting to be
Speaker 2: involved in it.
Speaker 1: Australia's favorite TV family is returning.
Speaker 2: You knew that there was still a lot of love
Speaker 2: and demand out there from the audience.
Speaker 4: The kids need us stay our kids, and I missed them.
Speaker 2: We have quite a few hurdles in all sorts of
Speaker 2: different ways.
Speaker 1: This year, the family gets back together again, one rafter
Speaker 1: at a time.
Speaker 2: Very sad that Jess wasn't able to join us, and.
Speaker 1: We were like a real family and we still are.
Speaker 2: We didn't expect it, even in our wildest dreams, to
Speaker 2: be as successful as it turned out to be.
Speaker 1: Hi, Chris, how are you.
Speaker 2: Good morning? I'm very well, Thanks Benjamin.
Speaker 1: I have been in your audience for as long as
Speaker 1: I can remember, certainly very familiar with all of the
Speaker 1: shows that you've worked on over the many years dating
Speaker 1: back to a country practice as a director. What would
Speaker 1: you say is your backbone to the passion of working
Speaker 1: in television.
Speaker 2: I think it all started when I was a kid
Speaker 2: and I just was I love television ever since I
Speaker 2: can remember. I think I grew up in the days
Speaker 2: of you know, all the Aussie TV shows Homicide, Divvy four, Madlock, police.
Speaker 2: I just love TV. And I remember I lived where
Speaker 2: I lived in Sydney. I lived in Chatswood, and I
Speaker 2: was kind of like equally distant between three of the
Speaker 2: main TV stations, Channel two, Channel seven, and Channel nine,
Speaker 2: And even at a very young age, I used to
Speaker 2: go and be in the television audiences whenever they needed audiences.
Speaker 2: I used to be able to I think from the
Speaker 2: age for probably ten or eleven years old, I used
Speaker 2: to be able to walk. It was make a mile
Speaker 2: or to fifteen minute walk to Channel nine and Channel two. Similarly,
Speaker 2: Channel seven was a train ride. But I used to
Speaker 2: go in Sydney audiences and you know, whatever they had,
Speaker 2: whether it was a quiz show or whether it was
Speaker 2: the wrestling was one of my favorites. But anyway, I
Speaker 2: just grew up loving TV and wanting to be involved
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: It is commonly with people like yourselves, who spent your
Speaker 1: entire career working in this industry, that there's been something
Speaker 1: that's been like an acting bug or a television bug,
Speaker 1: but something bites you and it just never lets you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The funny thing is, I'd say this to people
Speaker 2: and it sounds almost incredible, but I find that of
Speaker 2: all the people that I meet on the set, no
Speaker 2: matter what role they in, so many ninety percent of
Speaker 2: them seem to have started from wanting to be an actor.
Speaker 2: That's how they sort of their passion was originally wanting
Speaker 2: to be an actor, and for whatever reason, they didn't
Speaker 2: make it, but they ended up as a camera assistant,
Speaker 2: or they ended up as a grip, or they ended
Speaker 2: up as a script supervisor or whatever. And I actually
Speaker 2: started that way too when I was young. I did
Speaker 2: a lot of acting on my early teens and things
Speaker 2: like that, and was on a few TV shows, But
Speaker 2: then my parents pulled me out of that, so I
Speaker 2: concentrated my studies a bit more so I never went
Speaker 2: back into it. I think that's also part of the
Speaker 2: bug for me, as well as that I wanted to
Speaker 2: be on screen. And I'm really glad I'm not there
Speaker 2: qualers for it, because it's much more precarious profession getting.
Speaker 1: Into your work. If there was a signature Chris Martin
Speaker 1: Jones trait that you would like audiences to know you for,
Speaker 1: what would you say that is in the work that
Speaker 1: you've been creating over the years.
Speaker 2: Look, I think optimism and hope, and you know, look,
Speaker 2: I think I'm kind of like an old fashioned romantic,
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, I got a lot of
Speaker 2: my training, a lot of my grounding in a country practice,
Speaker 2: which was you know the show you know in the
Speaker 2: eighties and nineties with Jim Davin created that, and that
Speaker 2: was this iconic Australian show about you know, iconic Australian
Speaker 2: characters in a small country town, a vet and a doctor.
Speaker 2: But it was a very hopeful show and a very
Speaker 2: added appeal to a lot of people. And it was
Speaker 2: it had a really big heart, and it dealt with
Speaker 2: very difficult themes quite often. It was quite groundbreaking, and
Speaker 2: I talked about AIDS, and I talked about depression, and
Speaker 2: I talked to a lot of really quite difficult subjects.
Speaker 2: But it always did it in a very sort of
Speaker 2: fair and balanced way and very sympathetic. And I think
Speaker 2: it's that, yeah, I think, to be honest with I
Speaker 2: think it's just that's something that I think has followed
Speaker 2: me through everything that I've ever done. To be honest
Speaker 2: with I don't know whether it's just coincidence or it
Speaker 2: seems to be the way that I gravitate towards these things,
Speaker 2: but I do believe in the power of optimism and
Speaker 2: hope and positivity. I think it's a great thing to
Speaker 2: be able to send out the people and for people
Speaker 2: to People are very receptive to that as well, if
Speaker 2: it's done properly.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you know your directing credits are simply epic.
Speaker 1: But at one point you decided to jump to producing.
Speaker 1: What inspired you to take that leap after directing for
Speaker 1: so long.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been directing for I think thirty years or
Speaker 2: something like that. I loved it, and the more I
Speaker 2: did it, the more I loved it, and I felt
Speaker 2: like I got to a point where, to be quite
Speaker 2: honest with you, that was probably what twelve years ago
Speaker 2: I think I started producing where I actually it was
Speaker 2: actually getting really physical. I felt like, here I am
Speaker 2: at my agent getting up at like five point thirty
Speaker 2: in the morning and climbing down a mountainside, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was just really hard work. And I was just
Speaker 2: thought to myself, I could do a desk job right now.
Speaker 2: And as it turned out, I got off at a
Speaker 2: job producing Back to the Rafters. I've been working on
Speaker 2: that as a director for some time, and then was
Speaker 2: offered a job I think was series five to take
Speaker 2: over from Joe Porter, who was leaving as the series producer.
Speaker 2: And I've been working on the show a long time,
Speaker 2: so I felt, oh, that's probably a really good transition
Speaker 2: point for me to be able to leap across. I
Speaker 2: know the show very well, I know the actors very well,
Speaker 2: I know the way the show works. It was a
Speaker 2: perfect transition for me, and it came at the right
Speaker 2: time for me as well, when I was ready to
Speaker 2: do something else and move on. And having said that,
Speaker 2: though I misseddirecting a lot, I really loved it. Hopefully
Speaker 2: one day I'll be able to go back into it again.
Speaker 1: I'm sure with the amount of directing credits that you have,
Speaker 1: there'd be lots of people wanting your expertise and your knowledge.
Speaker 1: So I'm pretty sure that door would be opening.
Speaker 2: You never know, let's see. Look. One thing I will
Speaker 2: say though, too, is you know, looking at the world
Speaker 2: right now, and you see there's a lot being made
Speaker 2: and lot being made for streamers and things like that,
Speaker 2: and it's opened up this door for a whole lot
Speaker 2: of new people, which is great. A lot of young
Speaker 2: people coming through, a lot of young people with really
Speaker 2: fresh ideas and fresh look, it's fresh view points of
Speaker 2: the world. So I've got to say that's really exciting
Speaker 2: to see young people coming through the ranks as well.
Speaker 2: And you know, that's another thing to be able to
Speaker 2: do as a producers in fact, encourage people and be
Speaker 2: able to give assistance to people to have their this
Speaker 2: has heard.
Speaker 1: You know, what would you say has been the biggest
Speaker 1: challenge moving from directing to producing.
Speaker 2: I think it's just a personal challenge of being able
Speaker 2: to step back and let go a little bit and
Speaker 2: allow other people to have the sort of control that
Speaker 2: you once had. And that's the thing about producing. It's
Speaker 2: more of a you know, you're a little bit more
Speaker 2: removed from the actual day to day workload. Directing is
Speaker 2: kind of a very hands on, cold face type thing
Speaker 2: where you're actually working on a day to day basis
Speaker 2: for the actors and bring things together and making something.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, you can look and go,
Speaker 2: I did a good job there, or maybe I didn't
Speaker 2: do a good job there. But producing is a bit
Speaker 2: more distant, So I think that's that's kind of a
Speaker 2: challenge for me mentally sometimes is to be able to
Speaker 2: sort of like be patient and hold back and wait
Speaker 2: to see how it all turns out, because it takes
Speaker 2: a bit longer for things to your influence or any
Speaker 2: decisions you might make to actually be realized.
Speaker 1: Well, with packed to the rafters and a place to
Speaker 1: call home, I think that you've got two of the
Speaker 1: most iconic shows in Australian television history under your belt.
Speaker 1: What would you say is your greatest achievement in your
Speaker 1: television career today?
Speaker 2: Wow, I just look the greatest. I would say longevity.
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I think that's a great
Speaker 2: achievement to be able to sort of I've been working
Speaker 2: constantly for I think it's nearly forty five years now
Speaker 2: in television. I started off when I was eighteen as
Speaker 2: a stage at Channel seven. That was kind of how
Speaker 2: I started. And I worked my way up and became
Speaker 2: a foot law managerent and first assistant director and done
Speaker 2: many different roles and production manager and even was a
Speaker 2: training cameraman for a while. And I think it's the Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess if I had to be most proud of
Speaker 2: what I've done, it's that longevity and being able to
Speaker 2: do something that I love and continue doing it to
Speaker 2: the ag I am now.
Speaker 1: I want to know, though, with so many characters that
Speaker 1: you've been instrumental in constructing and bringing to the small screen,
Speaker 1: are there any other shows that might you might enjoy
Speaker 1: breathing life back into.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. There's a lot of them, look
Speaker 2: that I've worked on which I'd love to revisit. You know,
Speaker 2: as I was saying Country Practice one, I know that
Speaker 2: it was even talk about bringing that back at one point.
Speaker 2: I know that there was some production companies that were
Speaker 2: thinking about that because it was such an iconic Australian show,
Speaker 2: it would have to be you know, it was a
Speaker 2: little bit ahead of its time, as I say, in
Speaker 2: the way it dealt with a lot of sort of
Speaker 2: topical issues. But I think that's one that would be
Speaker 2: right to bring back because in the same way that
Speaker 2: Packed to the Rafters created this huge sort of ground
Speaker 2: swell of love for the show because it was so
Speaker 2: uniquely Australian and it spoke to Australians about the country
Speaker 2: they lived in and the kind of people we are.
Speaker 2: And I think Country Practice has that similar sort of
Speaker 2: affection from people, and I think it would be equally
Speaker 2: valid today as it was then. As to whether or
Speaker 2: not that'd be who would do that and what production
Speaker 2: company would be involved, I'm not sure, and whether the
Speaker 2: rights were available, I don't know. I could see that
Speaker 2: as being a good idea.
Speaker 1: I would say, what you do really well in a
Speaker 1: lot of the work is consistent is reflecting back Olian
Speaker 1: society in a way that we can see ourselves, which
Speaker 1: I think is the real currency for why shows can
Speaker 1: be very popular, you know, especially Packed to the Rafters
Speaker 1: as well. I think that's some of the magic of
Speaker 1: us seeing ourselves on screen, which makes us feel like
Speaker 1: we're a part of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, there is a real demand for Australians
Speaker 2: to see themselves on screen. I think that's one of
Speaker 2: the great things and great for Amazon to have supported
Speaker 2: bringing Back to the Rafters to the screen because, as
Speaker 2: you say, I think that's why Packed to the Rafters
Speaker 2: was so successful. It showed us as we are and
Speaker 2: showed our unique sense of humor and the way we
Speaker 2: relate to each other and what we're proud of as
Speaker 2: Australians and you know, we understand we're different from other
Speaker 2: people and where this you know, shows like Back of
Speaker 2: the Rafters celebrated that and cured us to Amazon because
Speaker 2: they're taking that to the world now, and we've shown
Speaker 2: with other shows and with our movies that we can
Speaker 2: take that. And Amazon were very supportive of not wanting
Speaker 2: to change too much either, and keeping the vernacular and
Speaker 2: keeping the you know, our unique sense of humor in
Speaker 2: the show and not trying to adapt that to make
Speaker 2: it more universal, because they thought that's what they want
Speaker 2: to celebrate. They want to show Australia to the world,
Speaker 2: and we can be very proud of that.
Speaker 4: I hope.
Speaker 2: We'll have to fit seven people into a two bedroom house.
Speaker 4: I have an air mattress.
Speaker 2: Thank you, two thirty five wonderful years.
Speaker 1: That's quite a responsibility.
Speaker 4: You're up to us. The kids need us, they're in
Speaker 4: their thirties, yours. I want to move back here. I'm going,
Speaker 4: I'm staying.
Speaker 2: What's the deal with you guys?
Speaker 1: You guys blitting us? How did the idea to bring
Speaker 1: back to the Rafters back as back to the Rafters,
Speaker 1: How did the idea to bring this back come around?
Speaker 2: Well, I know Amazon were really interested in finding something
Speaker 2: that would appeal to the Australian audiences and that was
Speaker 2: something that they knew had been very successful, and they
Speaker 2: approached seven and this Bevern Lee, as you know, was
Speaker 2: the creator of the show, and he was very excited.
Speaker 2: He came up with an idea which would be the
Speaker 2: spine of the show, the new show, and bring it
Speaker 2: into the present and make it topical for now as
Speaker 2: the original show was back then, and we all became
Speaker 2: very excited when we started talking about it. And as
Speaker 2: I say, once we heard what Bevan's vision of it
Speaker 2: would be, it seems really relevant and we knew that
Speaker 2: there was still a lot of love and demand out
Speaker 2: there from the audience. But when the show left, it's
Speaker 2: just anecdotally from all the cast. They still get asked
Speaker 2: about it, or were being asked about it on such
Speaker 2: a regular basis. When is it going to come back?
Speaker 2: You know, when are you guys going to get back
Speaker 2: together again? We really miss it and they are all
Speaker 2: really keen to it. I mean, that was such an
Speaker 2: unusual show and I've worked on quite a few of them,
Speaker 2: and the amount of sort of love there was between
Speaker 2: the cast and the crew, it was a really I
Speaker 2: mean it shows there on the screen. It really was
Speaker 2: a family of people who loved working together.
Speaker 1: Had you been personally wondering what all of these characters
Speaker 1: had been up to in the meantime. Had that been
Speaker 1: something you'd been more wondering about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had actually, And that's part of the
Speaker 2: light of the show I think is I think the
Speaker 2: audience probably have been too, so I'll get to see
Speaker 2: when they watched the show. Bevan came up with some
Speaker 2: great backstories for them all to explain, you know, where
Speaker 2: they'd been and how they'd changed and how they hadn't changed,
Speaker 2: and all that will be revealed as you watch Back
Speaker 2: to the Rafters.
Speaker 1: What were some of the hurdles in getting everyone back together?
Speaker 2: Everyone was really keen, Like, as I say, when they
Speaker 2: broke up, it was at the very end of the series,
Speaker 2: way back eight years or seven years ago. Whenever it was.
Speaker 2: Everyone was very sad about it. It was like a
Speaker 2: family breakup, so as soon as people heard about it,
Speaker 2: everyone was so keen. But it was just organizing all
Speaker 2: the schedules, Like you know, obviously Rebecca and Eric have
Speaker 2: very busy schedules, and Hugh Sheridan and Angus and Michael Cayden,
Speaker 2: they were all working constantly just bringing them all back
Speaker 2: together and being able to find a time at which
Speaker 2: they are all about it. It was kind of tough,
Speaker 2: but we had quite a few hurdles in all sorts
Speaker 2: of different ways, but it kind of they always seemed
Speaker 2: to work themselves out despite our constantly thinking that this
Speaker 2: is never going to work out, We'll never get this
Speaker 2: to work. But it kind of magically fell into place
Speaker 2: in so many different ways, not just getting the cast
Speaker 2: back together, but just getting some of the creative team
Speaker 2: back together, and it was like it was meant to
Speaker 2: be in some strange way.
Speaker 1: Was there ever a thought to maybe take Jessica Murray's character,
Speaker 1: to take her out following her departure from Not Coming Back?
Speaker 1: Did you ever think, oh, maybe we'll take that character out.
Speaker 2: Not really, No, I think that we really needed to
Speaker 2: keep the character of Rachel in. It was a show
Speaker 2: about family, It was a show about the dynamics of
Speaker 2: the family, and it would be such a loss to
Speaker 2: lose such an intapril and well loved character. Much as
Speaker 2: we were very sad that jess wasn't able to join us,
Speaker 2: we really wanted to be able to tell the stories
Speaker 2: about the character of Rachel, and we felt the loss
Speaker 2: would have been so great that it would have been
Speaker 2: very difficult to explain that as well to the audience
Speaker 2: without having to go in to probably highlight something we
Speaker 2: probably didn't wanted to highlight anyway, So we wanted to
Speaker 2: keep it about the raft of family and that meant
Speaker 2: everyone in the family.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not giving anything away about her involvement, the
Speaker 1: character's involvement in the show, but I would say it
Speaker 1: was probably one of the most nervous moments for me,
Speaker 1: is if you are recasting someone who just so iconic,
Speaker 1: but you pull it off. That's not giving anything away.
Speaker 1: You really pull off this character coming back and I
Speaker 1: want to know what was the process like on recasting
Speaker 1: that role. Was it hard?
Speaker 2: Yeah, very hard and very nerve wreaking, and actually say,
Speaker 2: we're all really nervous about it too. We understood a
Speaker 2: what an incredibly talented and wonderful actor Jess Murray was
Speaker 2: and what she brought to the show, and as we
Speaker 2: said earlier, she's much loved an integral part of the show.
Speaker 2: So to find somebody who would be able to do
Speaker 2: that very and you have to find someone very brave,
Speaker 2: and I think we would just like as I said earlier,
Speaker 2: it's almost like these things were meant to be with
Speaker 2: the show just had this great sense of good fortune
Speaker 2: about it and we were able to find and she wasn't.
Speaker 2: It was difficult. She was working in America at the time,
Speaker 2: Georgina a but we'd seen some of her work and
Speaker 2: we knew that she was very capable comedian as well
Speaker 2: as a very strong and capable dramatic actress and she
Speaker 2: was the right age. And you know, looking back on it,
Speaker 2: we were terrified that we wouldn't find anyone. But when
Speaker 2: we found Georgina, we just went, oh my god, she's perfect.
Speaker 2: And it was all very touch and go because she was,
Speaker 2: as I say, working in America at the time, and
Speaker 2: she might not have been able to get here in
Speaker 2: time to do it, but she sort of We just
Speaker 2: squeaked it in and she got here like a day
Speaker 2: before she started it. She was so totally up to
Speaker 2: speed and like I say, incredibly brave and incredibly committed
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: I reckon she's going to get nominated for something, even
Speaker 1: if it's a LOGI I know the logis have been
Speaker 1: off for two years, but when the logis come back,
Speaker 1: you know, I think she's fantastic. Moving away from that
Speaker 1: and asking about what the writer's room was like, what
Speaker 1: was the writers for him like pitching new ideas for
Speaker 1: these characters. Were you able to be privy to that?
Speaker 1: And I want to know was there any disagreements on
Speaker 1: characters and where they might be now in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: Look, it was very very much led by Bevin. Bevin
Speaker 2: had a really strong idea which we all got on
Speaker 2: board with early and about what the show, the sort
Speaker 2: of basis for the show was, which was about a
Speaker 2: relationship of two people, Julian Dave, and what happens when
Speaker 2: you change but you're still in love together. There's still
Speaker 2: the love still there, but you just have different outlooks
Speaker 2: the things that you want to do with your life.
Speaker 2: How do people deal with growing apart whilst they love
Speaker 2: each other? So that was the territory Bevan wanted to
Speaker 2: cover and we all just jumped on board with him.
Speaker 2: Thought that's brilliant and you know, all cudos to Bevin there.
Speaker 2: He came up with such a strong spine to it,
Speaker 2: such great ideas that he was always full of fabulous,
Speaker 2: very topical ideas that spoke to today and the problems
Speaker 2: that people of that age group are going through in
Speaker 2: terms of relating to family and studying their own families.
Speaker 2: And work issues and social issues. I would say Bevan
Speaker 2: is the one from whom all the great character and
Speaker 2: story ideas came from. And you know, he invited us
Speaker 2: to give our opinions, and we all pitched in and
Speaker 2: Amazon had some great ideas as well, and was really
Speaker 2: fruitful and very satisfying collaboration. I guess between all of us, would.
Speaker 3: You mind if Ruby stayed on for a bit? She
Speaker 3: won't need persuading and you can say no, we'd love
Speaker 3: to have her if it helps you notice attention.
Speaker 1: Well, And I didn't like to ask.
Speaker 4: We just need to talk things through.
Speaker 3: But we're just on different sides of a major issue,
Speaker 3: and we certainly don't need Rubes weighing in.
Speaker 4: Whatever works. What does Dave think?
Speaker 3: I'm sure you'll agree when I just decided myself, hopefully
Speaker 3: we'll deal with it and we'll be back to support you.
Speaker 3: Is that what it's about being here or.
Speaker 1: A lot more? What was Rebecca Givney's initial response to
Speaker 1: coming back.
Speaker 2: Oh, she was thrilled, she couldn't wait. You know, she's
Speaker 2: such a warm and lovely person at Rebecca and she
Speaker 2: made these fabulous relationships and you know that family is
Speaker 2: actually almost like her family like it's almost it was
Speaker 2: for all of us. She genuinely, you know, has such
Speaker 2: deep affection for all those people that she's been working with.
Speaker 1: Well, would you say that this cast is some of
Speaker 1: the best chemistry that we've ever seen on Australian television.
Speaker 1: I mean, is there a more iconic family?
Speaker 2: Well, exactly, yeah, it was. The casting was again, it
Speaker 2: was just one of these strange things that were meant
Speaker 2: to be. I remember being there in the very first
Speaker 2: stages of the show. Beside was the director at the time,
Speaker 2: and I directed the pilot, and I was there at
Speaker 2: the initial casting sessions, and I vividly remember the time
Speaker 2: we looked at everyone separately and at the time, first
Speaker 2: Rebecca was the first person to be involved, and then Eric,
Speaker 2: and then we got all the other people from the family,
Speaker 2: and Michael Kiton and then Hugh and Jess Murray were
Speaker 2: the sort of stars of neither of their year. And
Speaker 2: remember going seeing them at the Nier Showcase graduation performance
Speaker 2: of Sweet Charity. It was and they were just such
Speaker 2: talented young stars. They just jumped off the stage and
Speaker 2: anyway we had we'd sent all these people separately, and
Speaker 2: we just wanted to see how they gelled together as
Speaker 2: a family. So we for the first time brought them
Speaker 2: together in this audition room, and it was just magic.
Speaker 2: I so vividly remember it, and they all were just
Speaker 2: instantly bonded and sort of the rest of it at
Speaker 2: that point was kind of easy, you know. It was
Speaker 2: just easy to look at these people and be able
Speaker 2: I'm sure for the writers too, to be able to
Speaker 2: write stories for them. And I guess we had a
Speaker 2: sense that we'd sort of captured some kind of lightning
Speaker 2: moodel but we didn't expect it, even in our wildest dreams,
Speaker 2: to be as successful as it turned out to be.
Speaker 1: How do you work to create a family chemistry? Can
Speaker 1: you remember back in the day whether or not you
Speaker 1: workshop something in particular, and whether or not you used
Speaker 1: that technique again bringing them back, or was it just
Speaker 1: there for them?
Speaker 2: I think it was just there for them, to be
Speaker 2: honest with you, I think it was there for them
Speaker 2: right from the very word go. And even with George Evadis,
Speaker 2: who plays Carbo, who's technically what not one of the family,
Speaker 2: but is one of the Rafters family, you know, and
Speaker 2: then he lived next door to them, and he was
Speaker 2: part of the family, you know, and he'll always been
Speaker 2: over there and they all knew him very well. And
Speaker 2: I remember even George's first audition where he got to
Speaker 2: work with Hugh again. It was just this instant bonding
Speaker 2: and they just felt like they'd known each other for
Speaker 2: ages and it was this magical thing. And when that happens,
Speaker 2: it's such a lovely thing to be witnessed too. And
Speaker 2: we were lucky that we had it on a grand
Speaker 2: scale with like I think, what is it, nine people,
Speaker 2: every one of them just clicked.
Speaker 1: There's a scene where we see those two characters as
Speaker 1: brother and sister come together at the function center and
Speaker 1: they have a very serious bit of dialogue together and
Speaker 1: the chemistry was palpable.
Speaker 4: Said, you're heading out to see dad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe talk some sense into him.
Speaker 4: Oh good luck. We're sort of them to it. I
Speaker 4: get both sides.
Speaker 1: Sad, there are sides like it was just amazing to
Speaker 1: see that believable nature of them being brother and sister.
Speaker 1: And I think that's in episode three, but it was
Speaker 1: just amazing.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true. Well, look and at the same time,
Speaker 2: I don't mean to demean them either. They're just an
Speaker 2: incredibly talented bunch of people as well. It's not just
Speaker 2: the chemistry, they're also just we're very lucky that we
Speaker 2: just got some really brilliant people right when they were,
Speaker 2: you know, merging onto the scene. You know, well, Angus
Speaker 2: had been around for a while, because he'd been working
Speaker 2: on shows ever since he was I think ten years
Speaker 2: old or something like that. My kids used to watch
Speaker 2: him in H two O and shows like that. But
Speaker 2: Hugh and Jess were fairly new to the scene, and
Speaker 2: Michael Kaid obviously not, and Rebecca and Eric not. But
Speaker 2: you know, they're all just wonderfully talented, some of them
Speaker 2: incredibly experienced actors. And to get a cast, as you say,
Speaker 2: of that caliber where there was absolutely no week link,
Speaker 2: is quite remarkable.
Speaker 1: And also, you know the success of this show comes
Speaker 1: down to everyone can relate to someone on the show.
Speaker 1: So I just was curious as to who you relate
Speaker 1: to out of the rafters. Is there a particular character
Speaker 1: that you've always related to?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess as it's changed a little bit. I
Speaker 2: think I always related to Angus McLaren's Nathan. He was
Speaker 2: the youngest of the family, which you know, I am
Speaker 2: too of my family, and he had you know, he
Speaker 2: was always a bit of a dreamer, and I just
Speaker 2: I love the way what Angus brought to that character too.
Speaker 2: It was this sense of slight vulnerability, and you know,
Speaker 2: and I find I really empathized with him. But as
Speaker 2: I go older and I've got kids on my own,
Speaker 2: now I'm beginning to relate to today rafter a lot
Speaker 2: because I see all the frustrations and you know, the
Speaker 2: joy and the at the same time as the anger
Speaker 2: and all those things that you get with kids.
Speaker 4: This is where, for the first time, really upping Dave
Speaker 4: Raft and I don't see why I have to give
Speaker 4: that up to be a good father. Rassmand.
Speaker 1: You know, I know everyone is sick of hearing about COVID,
Speaker 1: But how did COVID affect the production?
Speaker 2: Oh dramatically as it probably does so many other workplaces
Speaker 2: around the world. We were right two thirds of the
Speaker 2: way through production and it started to sort of go
Speaker 2: a bit pear shaped in New South Wales and we
Speaker 2: were sensing that it was things were coming to a head.
Speaker 2: We were closed down I think three and a half
Speaker 2: weeks before we were supposed to finish, so we had
Speaker 2: to take a break and I think four months or
Speaker 2: five months and then regroup. And that was obviously terribly
Speaker 2: inconvenient for everyone really, and you know, I know it
Speaker 2: was terribly inconvenient for lots of people and lots of businesses.
Speaker 2: So but you know, we got there in the end
Speaker 2: and everyone was able to get back and you know,
Speaker 2: swing back into it. And it made a big difference
Speaker 2: the second time around, because suddenly we had to be
Speaker 2: working with lots of ppe and social distancing and very
Speaker 2: rigid protocols that we had to abide by, which I
Speaker 2: think everyone found a bit difficult because it was the
Speaker 2: early days and those for those things were a bit
Speaker 2: more used to it now. But in those days we
Speaker 2: had actors wearing face shields between takes and gloves and masks.
Speaker 2: But looking back at it, I don't think, you know,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, the cast and the crew were
Speaker 2: such professionals they managed to make all that stuff just
Speaker 2: stay in the background, and they were able to deliver
Speaker 2: the fabulous performances that kind of we would.
Speaker 1: Expect from you know, I've ever ever had a conversation
Speaker 1: with you about the idea of including COVID into the
Speaker 1: storylines of the family, you know, trying to set it
Speaker 1: in present day, because I know with Gray's Anatomy, they
Speaker 1: had a very strong conversation between the two main producers
Speaker 1: of that show about whether or not COVID existed in
Speaker 1: that series. I wondered whether or not you guys ever
Speaker 1: talked about whether or not COVID would affect the storylines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and perhaps if we'd known about COVID when We're
Speaker 2: actually began, it would have been different, But we COVID
Speaker 2: only became an issue way through and by which stage
Speaker 2: was too late to integrate it into the show. But
Speaker 2: it's something that I know people talk about a lot
Speaker 2: these days as to whether or not that would be,
Speaker 2: you know, in any new show. I mean there's always
Speaker 2: that who knows. It's so unknowable, Like by the time
Speaker 2: a show starts being written to the time it gets
Speaker 2: to be on screen can be up to a year.
Speaker 2: So who knows where COVID is going to be at
Speaker 2: that point. It might be completely gone and people might
Speaker 2: not even want to talk about it, or it might
Speaker 2: be still with us and you know, very much a part.
Speaker 2: So it's very it's a bit of a risky thing
Speaker 2: to do. I think it was never really part of
Speaker 2: our thinking too at the time, because as I say,
Speaker 2: we're already all the scripts were completely written by that stage,
Speaker 2: and we're too late to introduce it.
Speaker 1: A good thing to talk about is why audiences should
Speaker 1: come back From your perspective, you know people obviously there
Speaker 1: is a fan base that are going to come back,
Speaker 1: which is undeniable. But what about new audiences. Why do
Speaker 1: you think new audiences should join in at Back to
Speaker 1: the Rafters.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's for people who didn't discover how
Speaker 2: good it was the first time around. Way I could
Speaker 2: probably suggest, because I think now with Amazon we're fortunate
Speaker 2: enough to be able to present it to a new stage.
Speaker 2: And I think there is a very universal theme about
Speaker 2: Packed the Rafters, which I think we're touching everyone. And
Speaker 2: we spoke about this a lot, you know when we're
Speaker 2: talking about the writing, which is it's about family. It's
Speaker 2: about you know, the difficulties and the joy and the
Speaker 2: sorrows and everything that goes with family. And that's something
Speaker 2: that we all share. Every human being alive on the
Speaker 2: planet as at one point and still does come from
Speaker 2: a family. And so no matter which culture you're from,
Speaker 2: whilst some of the dynamics might be different, we all
Speaker 2: have that common bond you know of people that have
Speaker 2: raised us and love us and care for us. So
Speaker 2: I think that being the central theme of rafters, I
Speaker 2: think that's a very universal theme and I think it's
Speaker 2: one that we deal with with kind of honesty, but
Speaker 2: at the same time celebrating it and sort of affirming
Speaker 2: the idea of family and friendship.
Speaker 1: How important would you say streaming services are descriptive reality
Speaker 1: in Australia at the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's right, and it's they're terribly important because
Speaker 2: the world has changed a lot now with interactional streaming services.
Speaker 2: And I certainly you know, what I watch free to
Speaker 2: weear television for is very different these days than what
Speaker 2: I used to watch it before. Some much more things
Speaker 2: that are much more timely. It's in my opinion anyway,
Speaker 2: you know the current affairs and sport and news. I
Speaker 2: tend to be watching free to wear for and I've
Speaker 2: become used to us. I suppose a lot of us
Speaker 2: have is being able to watch drama when I want
Speaker 2: to watch it how I want to watch it, and
Speaker 2: that's the beauty of the streaming service, as you can say,
Speaker 2: how I'm going to watch all six episodes in one
Speaker 2: go on Sunday night after I've had dinner, you know,
Speaker 2: rather than having to wait each Tuesday night at seven
Speaker 2: point thirty. That ability to be able to choose your
Speaker 2: time means a lot to me, and I suppose it
Speaker 2: does to a lot of people. And I think that's
Speaker 2: what streaming has done. It's probably taken some of the
Speaker 2: drama focus away from the free tooware networks, and that
Speaker 2: ease of viewing or the audiences is something it's hard
Speaker 2: to go back from.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to also ask you just the last
Speaker 1: two questions about the show coming back is what was
Speaker 1: your favorite moment from the original pack to the Rafters?
Speaker 1: And then after that, I'm going to ask you what
Speaker 1: your favorite moment without giving anything too without giving too
Speaker 1: much away it is from the new series.
Speaker 2: My favorite moment was probably the first episode, because I
Speaker 2: did the pilot and then went on to as a director,
Speaker 2: that is, and then directed the first episode, and I
Speaker 2: think just seeing how kind of uncannonly well it all
Speaker 2: clicked together Bevans and Anthony Ellis who wrote it, and
Speaker 2: Bevans who created it, and all the cast just clicked
Speaker 2: and it was just one of those kind of miraculous
Speaker 2: things that no one kind of expected and I've worked
Speaker 2: and I had worked on a lot of shows to
Speaker 2: let and some successful shows as well, but this just
Speaker 2: have something that so instantly came together without seemingly that much.
Speaker 2: I was going to say effort, but there was a
Speaker 2: lot of effort behind it, but we didn't have to
Speaker 2: try and pull tricks, just all works. So I think
Speaker 2: that was my favorite moment of the whole thing, just
Speaker 2: to see that there would be there right at the
Speaker 2: beginning and just see how it all clicked together.
Speaker 1: The first series was just so iconic, and nothing prepared
Speaker 1: me for the storyline with Rachel. You know, in the
Speaker 1: first series, I think it was episode three, and I
Speaker 1: think in some ways it kind of looked a bit glossy,
Speaker 1: and then you delved really deep with this moment, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of going over the edge with alcohol addiction. You know,
Speaker 1: it was such an explosive television moment, you know, so
Speaker 1: early on in this series, and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people were thinking, you know, what the hell.
Speaker 4: So what's going on in my calling the police?
Speaker 3: She doesn't want that?
Speaker 4: It was Daniel. Yeah, I'm gonna take his head off.
Speaker 1: It's not going to solve anything.
Speaker 4: What am I supposed to do. He bashed my daughter.
Speaker 3: She wants to see you.
Speaker 4: I thought you said she was asleep.
Speaker 1: She wants her dad. Amazing. It really hooked me and
Speaker 1: kept me a part of watching the series all the
Speaker 1: way to the end. Is there a storyline with any
Speaker 1: of the characters in this next series that you think
Speaker 1: is your favorite.
Speaker 2: I'm just having there's several of them. I'm just trying
Speaker 2: to think which one I am most in touch. Again,
Speaker 2: I feel Nathan's storyline Angus McLaren's one is one I
Speaker 2: really because it's it's this vulnerability that he brings to
Speaker 2: that role and things don't often go right for him.
Speaker 2: And again I'm not giving anything away, but he finds
Speaker 2: his piece by the end of the series, and it's
Speaker 2: a wonderful thing. It's just a really great journey for
Speaker 2: him in this series, and that's one that I personally
Speaker 2: really find very kind of I can relate to, and
Speaker 2: I find it very emotional even talking about it, actually,
Speaker 2: because he comes from a very sort of dark place
Speaker 2: and then through all these wonderful things that happened to him,
Speaker 2: ends up in a much more joyful place by the
Speaker 2: end of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think that's quite amazing. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot has changed in the world. Was there a pressure
Speaker 1: to be mindful of inclusion with this new series? I
Speaker 1: mean it has been reported that even with the Sex
Speaker 1: and the City reboot that they wanted to make make
Speaker 1: sure that a person of color and a non binary
Speaker 1: character was included. Did that affect anything in the way
Speaker 1: in which this series was being planned?
Speaker 2: Yes, it did, look it was and as you say,
Speaker 2: the world's changed a lot even in this short time
Speaker 2: between the series is and there was a recognition that
Speaker 2: we should be able to reflect, you know, the reality
Speaker 2: of modern Australia. And Amazon were really keen to do
Speaker 2: that as well, and they I thought they had a
Speaker 2: wonderful expression that they wanted the show to reflect the
Speaker 2: diversity of their audience, which was you know, when you
Speaker 2: think about it, it was just a really honest and
Speaker 2: a great attitude to have. And that's what we tried
Speaker 2: to do. And again Bevan and came up some great
Speaker 2: ideas and some great characters, which I think we're all
Speaker 2: really proud of actually in that we've been able to
Speaker 2: sort of again just reflect the more modern Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know who had changed the most
Speaker 1: from the first run, you know, was there kind of
Speaker 1: a proud popa bear moment for you interacting with some
Speaker 1: of the young characters or even any of the actors, Like,
Speaker 1: who do you think had changed the most?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a spooky thing, but no one really, you know,
Speaker 2: in that time, no one. It was also familiar. I'd
Speaker 2: have to say nobody. Again. I keep coming back to
Speaker 2: Angus becaus Angus had done quite a lot of very
Speaker 2: different roles in between. I'd seen him just kind of
Speaker 2: stretch his wings a little bit more, and he'd gone
Speaker 2: back to drama school as well, and so he was
Speaker 2: really focused on trying to, you know, get as much
Speaker 2: experience as possible. And he had changed himself personally in
Speaker 2: a really good way, but his character remained the same
Speaker 2: on screen. That was the funny thing. I remember the
Speaker 2: first day. I was there on the first day of
Speaker 2: shooting of the new series, Back to the Rafters, and
Speaker 2: we were shooting at the Boat Club in Sant Susi,
Speaker 2: which was one of our established locations from the previous series,
Speaker 2: where Dinah works and where Ben worked, And that was
Speaker 2: our first day on the shoot, and I remember the
Speaker 2: scene vividly. It was a scene with Merity and George
Speaker 2: hiv Artist and Hugh and then there was another scene
Speaker 2: with Rebecca and we all just were stunned because it
Speaker 2: felt like only yesterday. It was just getting back into
Speaker 2: these comfy old slippers and getting back on set again,
Speaker 2: and it felt like just a couple of days had passed.
Speaker 2: It was just such a familiar experience for everyone. It
Speaker 2: was almost kind of spooky. Here we were many years later,
Speaker 2: nothing had changed.
Speaker 1: Well, my last question that I ask everybody before they
Speaker 1: go is what is an amazing story from behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: so behind the scenes of Back to the Rafters that
Speaker 1: maybe the audience would appreciate something that we might not
Speaker 1: have seen.
Speaker 2: Well, here's kind of one of my favorite stories is
Speaker 2: that right in the peak of the pandemic, what it
Speaker 2: was just start. Sorry it wasn't the peak. It was
Speaker 2: when it was just beginning. We had to shut the
Speaker 2: show down. As I said, we have two thirds of
Speaker 2: the way through the shoot, and it was my job
Speaker 2: was used to the guy out there on set and
Speaker 2: just basically stopped production and just get everyone assembled in
Speaker 2: the back garden. And it was of the house we
Speaker 2: were shooting at in Cavalita and nearly all the cast
Speaker 2: was there and all the crew. We gathered them to stop,
Speaker 2: got the first assistant director to shut the show down,
Speaker 2: bring everyone out in the back guard. That was very somber.
Speaker 2: I think people knew what was coming, because you know,
Speaker 2: the COVID numbers were getting serious, and everyone was really
Speaker 2: terrified about what was going to happen. And I were
Speaker 2: standing in this back garden of this bit off a
Speaker 2: little house which had a swing set behind me, a
Speaker 2: kid's swing set, and I was addressing the cast and
Speaker 2: the crew, among them being a little cast by the
Speaker 2: six year old boy who plays Edward Rafter, and I said, look, sorry, guys,
Speaker 2: we're going to have shut the show down. We don't
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen when well when we'll be
Speaker 2: able to start back up. And everyone was very somber.
Speaker 2: People were losing their jobs and it was a very
Speaker 2: sad moment. And at the end of it, I said,
Speaker 2: are there any questions and anybody could I answer anything?
Speaker 2: And everyone was silent and just looked around. And then
Speaker 2: little Casper put his hand up and I said Caspar
Speaker 2: and he said, I play in the swings now. And
Speaker 2: it was just this great moment that broke everyone up
Speaker 2: and everyone started to laugh and it just broke this
Speaker 2: It was this magic moment that almost felt like a
Speaker 2: moment that had been written for Rafters. It just, you know,
Speaker 2: it was this sort of this the sort of innocence
Speaker 2: of youth and the sort of that kind of It
Speaker 2: was a very grounding moment in a very difficult time
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, just to bring you back
Speaker 2: down to worth again and everyone. It was very moving everyone.
Speaker 2: It just lifted everyone's spirits at a very difficult time.
Speaker 1: Well, Chris, I have been in your audience for a
Speaker 1: very long time, and I'm so appreciative of you coming
Speaker 1: on here and sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom
Speaker 1: on your back catalog, but also talking about Back to
Speaker 1: the Rafters getting rebooted. And I really hope that everyone
Speaker 1: that's listening to this podcast tunes in and gets a
Speaker 1: chance to catch up with them, because there's something quite
Speaker 1: magical about the Rafters. And I thank you for your
Speaker 1: hard work on the show.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, it was a pleasure of talking to you.
Speaker 2: Benjamin four