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Speaker 1: Today on the Happy Families Podcast, what do you do

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Speaker 1: when you have a child experiencing all kinds of mental

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Speaker 1: health challenges and there are other kids around who are

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Speaker 1: being affected potentially in negative ways. Gooday, Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day. It's Australia's

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Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson,

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Speaker 1: and every Tuesday on the Happy Families Podcast, we answer

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Speaker 1: your tricky questions. Tricky questions about family, about discipline, about wellbeing,

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Speaker 1: mental health, relationships, screens, whatever it is. You can literally

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Speaker 1: ask us anything. We are up for the chat. We

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Speaker 1: think that we can be helpful if you'd like to

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Speaker 1: submit a tricky question. We have a really super simple

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Speaker 1: system at Happy families dot com dot you. You just

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Speaker 1: scroll down to where it says podcasts, click the record

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Speaker 1: button and start talking just like Kate.

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Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Kate. We have four children. The

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Speaker 2: oldest is eighteen. He's struggling with depression and hopelessness. He

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Speaker 2: has been an incredible kid for all of his life,

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Speaker 2: but he's really struggling right now. My question is really,

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Speaker 2: how do we as parents help our other children who

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Speaker 2: are aged fifteen thirteen and ten to cope with this

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Speaker 2: change in our eldest child, and as they try to

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Speaker 2: navigate his temperamental changes, his mood. He's just a different

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Speaker 2: kid now, and they miss their old brother, they miss

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Speaker 2: how we used to be, and it's really tricky to

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Speaker 2: navigate this for them and with them. I would love

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Speaker 2: any insight. We're trying all we can to help him

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Speaker 2: through this. In the meantime, we really don't even know

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Speaker 2: how to help you, Tiplings.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Kylie, but I'm almost crying

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Speaker 1: listening to Kate as she goes through what must be

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Speaker 1: one of the hardest things that a parent can ever

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Speaker 1: go through, and that is seeing a child's suffer. I

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Speaker 1: remember being asked in a Q and A once what's

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Speaker 1: the hardest part about being a parent, and I said,

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Speaker 1: it's seeing your children suffer. It's the hardest thing. And

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate that Kate's asking about the kids. This

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Speaker 1: is the selflessness of a mother, right, asking about the kids.

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Speaker 1: But you can hear this is hard for Kate. This

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Speaker 1: is so hard.

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Speaker 3: You've really touched on the idea that as a mum,

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Speaker 3: everybody else's emotions are put first, right she's worried about

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Speaker 3: her eighteen year old, she's worried about her kids, and

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Speaker 3: yet you can just oh, you can hear it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there is so much weight Kate carries right now.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say this later in the podcast,

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Speaker 1: as I was putting together some thoughts, I was just

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Speaker 1: going to say, as parents, it's really hard to be

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Speaker 1: happier than your unhappiest child, and you can hear it

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Speaker 1: in what Kate said. Okate, first of all, I just

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Speaker 1: want to acknowledge how incredibly, incredibly, incredibly hard this is.

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Speaker 1: You're watching your firstborn absolutely clearly struggle, and you're simultaneously

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Speaker 1: trying to protect and support three other kids who are

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Speaker 1: no doubt confused and hurting as well. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that you're thinking of all four of your kids in

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Speaker 1: this moment just shows what a thoughtful parent you are

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Speaker 1: and the sacrifice that the parents make for their kids

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Speaker 1: all the time. Even as I heard you describing siblings

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Speaker 1: missing their older brother, I'm hearing a mum missing her

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Speaker 1: older son. That's actually what I'm hearing as well. It's

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Speaker 1: so real. It's so painful when depression changes someone we love.

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Speaker 1: The entire family grieves your younger kids are experiencing a

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Speaker 1: real loss. I mean, this is a substantive loss. They've

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Speaker 1: lost the connection, they've lost the sense of family and

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Speaker 1: wholeness that they're used to feeling, even though their brother's

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Speaker 1: still physically there. So we're going to talk about what

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Speaker 1: you can do to help them through this while still

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Speaker 1: supporting your eighteen year old. I've got three things that

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Speaker 1: I want to emphasize, although we could probably put together

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Speaker 1: a list of ten or twenty things if we had

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Speaker 1: the time for it. The first thing is just what

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Speaker 1: your kids need to understand, setting a foundation mentally for

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Speaker 1: the kids. The mind is an incredible storyteller, and it

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Speaker 1: tells helpful stories and unhelpful stories. Some of the unhelpful

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Speaker 1: stories for younger children might be this is what happens

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Speaker 1: when you get old. You get sad, life gets harder,

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Speaker 1: and things are horrible. That's an unhelpful story. Well, this

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Speaker 1: is my fault is exact. What a wonderful example that is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these unhelpful stories clearly don't do any good for anybody's

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Speaker 1: well being, and they're not in the direction that we

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Speaker 1: need to travel. They might be coming up with other

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Speaker 1: stories that are scarier than reality. They might think that,

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Speaker 1: like Kyli said, it's therefore they did something wrong. They

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Speaker 1: might think that their brother doesn't love them anymore. They

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Speaker 1: might think that something terrible is going to happen, either

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Speaker 1: to their brother or to the family. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: our job is to there's this thing called toxic positive.

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Speaker 1: Our job is not to become toxically positive and say no,

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Speaker 1: everything's fine and we're going to put on a brave

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Speaker 1: face and pretend like nothing's happening. That's not helpful. But

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Speaker 1: what we can do is we can validate their feelings

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Speaker 1: and then gently redirect them to examples of positivity and

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Speaker 1: success and support in their lives.

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Speaker 3: I think at this point in the narrative, it's really

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Speaker 3: important that we actually acknowledge what's going on for the kids,

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Speaker 3: whether it's dealing with emotional outbursts or mood shifts in

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Speaker 3: their older brother, or whether it's the fact that as

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Speaker 3: a parent today I'm not managing well as a result

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Speaker 3: of what's going on. We don't need to go into

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Speaker 3: huge detail, but our children need to know that there's

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Speaker 3: an explanation to what they're feeling.

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Speaker 1: Right, I was going to go down a similar I

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Speaker 1: guess a parallel track and say that we want to

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Speaker 1: validate how they're feeling, but we don't have to over

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Speaker 1: explain everything. So I was going to say, if your

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Speaker 1: ten year old says, why is he always in his

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Speaker 1: room or in such a bad mood, you can just

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Speaker 1: say something like, well, sometimes when people feel really sad

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Speaker 1: or worried on the inside, they need some quiet time

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Speaker 1: to feel better. So we're we're not making excuses, We're

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Speaker 1: just giving a gentle explanation. We're validating how a child feels.

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Speaker 1: You can say to your child, it's okay to miss

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Speaker 1: how things used to be. That makes total sense, and

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Speaker 1: one day we hope that things are going to be

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Speaker 1: back to normal again.

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Speaker 3: I guess where I was going with this is just

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Speaker 3: there's an overarching conversation that I would be having with

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Speaker 3: my kids to acknowledge that right now, your big brother's

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Speaker 3: really struggling. There's going to be lots of emotions and

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Speaker 3: lots of feelings around it, and mommy and daddy are

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Speaker 3: here to talk to you about those things. But just

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Speaker 3: understand this isn't about you. This is about your big

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Speaker 3: brother and what he's going through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's what they actually need the most.

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Speaker 1: Now that you've clarified that and added some more to it,

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Speaker 1: it's not your fault. Our family is going to be okay,

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Speaker 1: loving people through difficult times. What families do, I guess

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Speaker 1: I probably even overstep before. You don't want to. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to overpromise and say, yeah, he'll be fine soon.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to say that we're going to go

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Speaker 1: back to exactly how things were, but you do want

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Speaker 1: to focus on building hope and building strength in the family.

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Speaker 3: So I really just want to add something there. I

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Speaker 3: think about the experiences that we've had in our home

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Speaker 3: and the challenges that we've gone through with some of

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Speaker 3: our children, and I actually think that the most important

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Speaker 3: thing that we can do as a parent is to

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Speaker 3: show our younger children that we can love their older

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Speaker 3: brother in spite of his actions, in spite of his outburst,

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Speaker 3: in spite of everything. They're watching us, they're watching out

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Speaker 3: every move. The way we choose to respond to the

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Speaker 3: child who is struggling the most sends the biggest message

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Speaker 3: to them than anything else. It's actually not the bad

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Speaker 3: behavior of the struggling child, it's how we choose to

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Speaker 3: respond that gives them a sense of safety, security, and hope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to add one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: lines is no matter how angry you are, no matter

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Speaker 1: how sad you are, no matter how whatever you are,

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Speaker 1: our love for you is bigger than what you're feeling

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Speaker 1: right now. It's just such a profoundly impactful line. Second

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Speaker 1: thing that I think we need to emphasize is that

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Speaker 1: our kids need to know that they're allowed to be normal. Okay,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it feels like they're going to have to walk

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Speaker 1: on eggshells. One person being depressed, one person being angry,

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Speaker 1: one person being stressed can shift the climate across the

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Speaker 1: entire family. Emotions are contagious. We talk about this all

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Speaker 1: the time on the pod, But your younger kids shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to suppress their joy or tiptoe around on eggshells

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Speaker 1: because they've got a big brother who's having a rough time.

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Speaker 1: It's really important that we teach them to be considerate.

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Speaker 1: That matters, but they shouldn't have to be a slave

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Speaker 1: to it.

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Speaker 3: So this is a little bit tricky because often we've

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Speaker 3: experienced in our home that the joy of other people

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Speaker 3: is actually a trigger for the person who's struggling the.

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Speaker 1: Most gravating for the person who's cranky and.

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Speaker 3: It really grates them, whether it's just the added noise

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Speaker 3: or the extra chaos in the house or whatever. And

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Speaker 3: so I think that it is really important that we

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Speaker 3: support our younger children as they have their joyful moments.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes that may mean removing them from the house.

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Speaker 3: It might be just the backyard, it might be down

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Speaker 3: to the park, it might be to go to a

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Speaker 3: friend's place. But they should be able to have those

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Speaker 3: you know, beautiful positive emotions.

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Speaker 1: They've got to have their own individual life. Yeah, yep.

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Speaker 1: So if they're having a day where they're having some

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Speaker 1: big emotions and things, I just think create some boundaries.

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Speaker 1: Your brother's having a really hard day today, let's be

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Speaker 1: extra gentle, or let's do that outside, or let's go

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Speaker 1: to the park, or let's go to a friend's house.

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Speaker 1: That's the way to do it. Otherwise everyone's walking on

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Speaker 1: eggshells all the time. After the break, one more big

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Speaker 1: thing that will make a huge difference when you've got

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Speaker 1: kids who are struggling. And a bonus tip on how

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Speaker 1: to support an eighteen year old through these challenges. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you've got an eighteen year old who's not doing well.

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Speaker 1: Depression anxiety, big angry outbursts. The younger kids are struggling.

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Speaker 1: What do you need to do? So far, we've talked

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Speaker 1: about how the kids need to understand what's going on,

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Speaker 1: We need to give them permission to be normal. The

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Speaker 1: third and final thing that I really wanted to touch

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Speaker 1: on in this podcast episode today is that it can

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Speaker 1: be really beneficial to get them on site and give

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Speaker 1: them appropriate ways to help. So often younger children are

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Speaker 1: going to look at their big brother going through this

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Speaker 1: struggle and say, I'm powerless. I see somebody that I love,

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Speaker 1: they're struggling. I don't know what to do, and every

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Speaker 1: time I do anything, I get in trouble for doing

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing. So I reckon if we can find

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Speaker 1: ways that they can serve, find ways that they can

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Speaker 1: contribute in the home, hopefully not building resentment but actually

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Speaker 1: building relationships, we'll get somewhere. A couple of examples, the

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old might send funny memes, or the thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old might say, Hey, I'm watching a movie, do

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Speaker 1: you want to come and watch it with me? No

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Speaker 1: pressure if he says no. The ten year old might

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Speaker 1: invite him to play a game every now and again,

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Speaker 1: and go for a walk with him and the dog.

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Speaker 1: The key message really around this is you can't fix

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Speaker 1: your brother, and that's not what our objective is here.

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Speaker 1: But we can show love in small ways, and that's

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Speaker 1: kind of where I'm aiming with this. They're not responsible

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Speaker 1: for cheering him up, they're not responsible for checking on

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Speaker 1: his mood. They're not even responsible for, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: telling you what they're observing. They're just responsible for finding

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Speaker 1: ways that they can integrate joy into the family through service.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a reasonable thing to say. Let's

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Speaker 1: just try and make a difference here. The last thing

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Speaker 1: that I want to mention Kylie, just briefly, is that

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Speaker 1: when you've got an eighteen year old going through this,

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of things that he needs to hear,

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Speaker 1: and I just we've got to emphasize the importance of connection.

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Speaker 1: Here's what he needs to hear. Your siblings are asking

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Speaker 1: about you because they love you. They're not judging you.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to perform being okay for them. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to carry good about how this affects our family.

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Speaker 1: What we do want to see, though, is a willingness

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Speaker 1: on your part to work with our family so that

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Speaker 1: we can feel good from time to time. And the

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Speaker 1: reason for that is avoidance reinforces anxiety. Action reduces anxiety.

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Speaker 1: So if you can make some small connections, whether it's

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Speaker 1: joining you for family dinner and participating in the conversation,

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Speaker 1: whether it's watching a movie together once a week, whether

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Speaker 1: it's going on that outing and having that picnic at

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Speaker 1: the park bench, avoidance reinforces anxiety. Action reduces anxiety. So

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Speaker 1: that's what we've got for you today, Kate. We know

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Speaker 1: you're literally navigating one of the hardest parts of parenting

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Speaker 1: because you've got multiple kids with different needs, and it

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Speaker 1: feels like it's a family crisis. It probably I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say it feels like it sounds like it really is

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Speaker 1: a family crisis. Bottom line is this, Your kids are

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Speaker 1: learning how families can support each other through difficult times.

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Speaker 1: If you have these conversations with them, they're watching you

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Speaker 1: show up for their brother. They're seeing you still caring

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Speaker 1: for them, and I think that's a really powerful lesson

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Speaker 1: about love and loyalty. So be patient with the process.

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Speaker 1: Healing is not something that is linear. It's up and

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Speaker 1: down all the time, and family adjustment takes time. I

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Speaker 1: think you're doing better than you probably think you're doing yourself.

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Speaker 3: And if I can just add one little cave it, Yeah, Kate,

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Speaker 3: find someone to talk to. You don't have to suffer

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Speaker 3: through this alone. And you and your husband will be

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Speaker 3: carrying the weight of this in such a profound way.

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Speaker 3: And if you're going to be able to show up

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Speaker 3: for your other kids, it's going to require a village.

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Speaker 3: So whatever that village is, whether it needs to be

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Speaker 3: professional or whether it's just a close friend that you

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Speaker 3: can just have some downtime and share your heartache because

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Speaker 3: you're so often, you know, kind of putting on a

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Speaker 3: big brave face for everybody else. I think it's really important.

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Speaker 1: We really love you. Tricky questions. Thanks for submitting that one, Kate.

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Speaker 1: If you have a tricky question, you can send it

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Speaker 1: to us at podcasts at happy families dot com dot

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Speaker 1: you just record a void and shoot that through, or

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Speaker 1: visit happy families dot com dot you scroll down to

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Speaker 1: the podcast section and press the button that says record

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Speaker 1: so that you can talk to us. The Happy Families

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Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Mim

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Speaker 1: Hammonds provides research and a host of other support. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like more information and resources about making your family happier,

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Speaker 1: visit happy families dot com, dot a