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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the sixth of July.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zarasidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: Now it's been a little while since we've given you

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Speaker 2: an update on the Indigenous Voice to Parliament, so today

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Speaker 2: we are.

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Speaker 4: Going to bring you on with a referendum just months away.

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Speaker 4: Public support for the proposal is slipping.

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Speaker 2: Recent polling suggests that the Yes campaign is falling behind

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Speaker 2: in the race towards the referendum. Support for the Indigenous

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Speaker 2: Voice to Parliament has slumped once again, according to a

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Speaker 2: new poll, but the Yes campaigns kicked into gear in response.

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Speaker 4: As crowds gathered at more than twenty five events calling

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Speaker 4: fromn Indigenous Voice to Parliament to be enshrined in the Constitution.

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Speaker 2: What TDA journalist Tom Crowley is going to catch up

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Speaker 2: with us in today's deep dive for Verse am. What

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Speaker 2: is making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 3: A magistrate has expressed anger that an officer alleged to

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Speaker 3: have tasered an elderly woman with dementia appeared in court

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Speaker 3: via videolink. Ninety five year old Claire Noland died in

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Speaker 3: hospital after a confrontation with New South Wales police at

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Speaker 3: an aged care home in May. During yesterday's hearing, the

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Speaker 3: magistrate said extra security was placed outside the court at

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Speaker 3: great expense, adding he expected the thirty three year old

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Speaker 3: to attend the hearing in person.

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Speaker 2: A luggage search at Sydney Airport has led to the

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Speaker 2: rescue of sixteen children from alleged sexual abuse. A joint

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Speaker 2: investigation between the AFP, the Border Force and police in

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Speaker 2: the Philippines discovered evidence in a Queensland man's luggin that

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Speaker 2: led to a major breakthrough in an international child protection investigation,

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Speaker 2: with children as young as ten found during the raids.

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Speaker 3: The discovery of a white powder that led to a

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Speaker 3: partial shutdown in the White House has been identified as cocaine.

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Speaker 3: The Secret Service said a precautionary closure was triggered after

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Speaker 3: an unknown item was discovered in the West Wing on Sunday.

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Speaker 3: The West Wing houses the President's office. President Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: was not there at the time of the shutdown.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. If you are a Victorian pet owner,

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Speaker 2: this one's for you. You can now take part in

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Speaker 2: a state's very first pet census. The initiative from the

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Speaker 2: Victorian government's Animal Welfare Department is aimed at developing more

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Speaker 2: effective policies and programs to promote responsible pet ownership across

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Speaker 2: the state. Tom, welcome back to the pod today.

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Speaker 4: Lovely to be here.

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Speaker 2: It's been a little while since we've spoken about the

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Speaker 2: Indigenous Voice to Parliament. I think you and I did

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Speaker 2: a party on this a few months ago, So what

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Speaker 2: do we need to know to get us up to date.

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Speaker 4: It has been a little while, Zarah and I think

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Speaker 4: it's tricky with the voice because it's kind of in

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Speaker 4: and out of the news all the time, and we're

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Speaker 4: still just most days most days and we're just waiting

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Speaker 4: for the day where we get to vote. You know,

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Speaker 4: every time we talk about this, it's just at some

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Speaker 4: point in the future we're going to get to vote.

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Speaker 4: That's still months away. We don't know exactly when we

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Speaker 4: think it's going to be October, so it's difficult to

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Speaker 4: know when's the right time to jump back in and

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Speaker 4: give a bit of an update. But as you say,

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Speaker 4: it has been a couple of months, and I think

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Speaker 4: the campaign is in full swing now in a way

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Speaker 4: that it wasn't the last time we spoke. So all

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Speaker 4: of the official hurdles have been cleared now, it's gone

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Speaker 4: through all of the parliamentary processes and we're officially on

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Speaker 4: the way to a vote. The Yes and No campaigns

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Speaker 4: are both in full swing. I think probably the main

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Speaker 4: thing that's changed since the last time we spoke, Zarah,

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Speaker 4: is that the No campaign has had a couple of

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Speaker 4: months of quite significant momentum. So it's so difficult to

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Speaker 4: know exactly what the public is thinking, especially because a

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Speaker 4: lot of people may not pay much attention to the

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Speaker 4: Voice until right before they vote. But when we do

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Speaker 4: get opinion polling, we've seen a really significant trend. Back

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Speaker 4: the last time we spoke, I think it might have

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Speaker 4: been in April, the support for the Voice was at

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Speaker 4: roughly sixty percent in most opinion polls. That's now fallen

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Speaker 4: back to more like a fifty to fifty and we're

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Speaker 4: starting to see, for really the first time since we've

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Speaker 4: been talking about this polls where the No vote is ahead.

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Speaker 4: So it's certainly evened up, and it's evened up as

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Speaker 4: a result of the No campaign. I suppose, having an

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Speaker 4: effective couple of months, it's a long way to go.

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Speaker 4: October is a long way away. I'm sure these numbers

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Speaker 4: are going to bounce around a whole lot, but that's

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Speaker 4: the context in which we have the government in particular

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Speaker 4: trying to think about ways to change that momentum.

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Speaker 2: And those ways was yesterday with the Minister for Indigenous Australians,

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Speaker 2: Linda Bernie, getting up and really speaking about the voice

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Speaker 2: to a national audience at the Press Club. What did

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Speaker 2: we hear from her yesterday?

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Speaker 4: It was all about detail, really, Zara. So we've heard

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Speaker 4: a lot from Linda Burnie of course over the last

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Speaker 4: few months, but this address was the chance to offer

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Speaker 4: some new details and some new thoughts I suppose from

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Speaker 4: the Minister about how she imagines that a voice would work.

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Speaker 4: And I think if you could sum up the speech

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Speaker 4: in one word, that word would be local. She really

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Speaker 4: wanted to emphasize that the way she sees the Voice

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Speaker 4: and the benefit she sees in the Voice is about

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Speaker 4: taking the perspectives of local communities and feeding them up

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Speaker 4: to decision makers. And so there were a few other

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Speaker 4: bits and pieces of detail, but this was I suppose,

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Speaker 4: a rallying cry as we head towards a referendum for

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Speaker 4: what Linda Bernie saw as an opportunity for Australia.

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Speaker 5: We have everything to gain and nothing to lose by

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Speaker 5: supporting the Voice, because the Voice will be a mechanism

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Speaker 5: for government and the Parliament to listen.

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Speaker 2: I thought one of the things that Linda Bernie said

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Speaker 2: yesterday in this speech was something I hadn't heard before,

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Speaker 2: and she used an example of what the Voice could

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Speaker 2: actually look like in practice. Can you take me through that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I can, And I think it's first worth acknowledging

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Speaker 4: upfront that this question of details been quite a political question,

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Speaker 4: and I think that that context is important. So I

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Speaker 4: will answer your question, Sarah, but a quick little detour first,

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Speaker 4: just a refresher on exactly what we're voting on here.

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Speaker 4: So what we're going to vote on in October is

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Speaker 4: whether we want to put the Voice in Australia's constitution.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 4: And the Constitution is I guess it's a principles document.

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Speaker 4: So the Constitution says things like the government is allowed

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Speaker 4: to declare war. The government can and can't do this

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Speaker 4: in a really broad sense. What the government wants to

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Speaker 4: put into the Constitution is a permanent requirement to have

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Speaker 4: a voice. But then the questions about what the voice

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Speaker 4: would do. These details will be passed by Parliament as

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Speaker 4: a law, just like any other law. It could change

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Speaker 4: in future. It's a separate question to what goes in

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Speaker 4: the Constitution. And for that reason the government has said

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Speaker 4: we don't want to get into all of these details

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Speaker 4: about our legislation now, we want you to focus on

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Speaker 4: this principal question in the Constitution. But the No campaign

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Speaker 4: and Opposition Leader Peter Dutton in particular have really attacked

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Speaker 4: that and said, well, if you're asking us to vote

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Speaker 4: on the voice, you need to give us detail about

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Speaker 4: what it is that you propose so that we can

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Speaker 4: make an informed vote, even if it's not going in

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Speaker 4: the Constitution. We need to know.

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Speaker 2: And I mean that's clearly top of mind when Linda

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Speaker 2: Bernie is delivering this speech yesterday, because she did try

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Speaker 2: and offer more details.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right. I mean she described the structure as

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Speaker 4: a series of local representatives for every state and territory,

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Speaker 4: for the Torres Strait islands, for individual remote communities, and

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Speaker 4: the idea there would be that they're chosen by those

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Speaker 4: local communities and they function really she described it almost

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Speaker 4: like a local member of parliament. So she gave this

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Speaker 4: example of if a local community had an idea about

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Speaker 4: how to improve school attendance rates at their school in

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Speaker 4: their community, they would then have this access point to

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Speaker 4: their Voice representative, who then filters that up to the government.

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Speaker 4: I guess the Voice could do that on just about

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Speaker 4: any issue. There are no formal limits proposed, at least

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Speaker 4: at the moment, to what it can consult on. But

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Speaker 4: Linda Bernie emphasized four areas where she thought the Voice

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Speaker 4: could do the most good and they were education like

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Speaker 4: in that example, health, jobs, and housing, and she framed

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Speaker 4: them as the minister as the four priorities that she

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Speaker 4: saw for the Voice areas where she pointed to the

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Speaker 4: closing the gap context where there is persistent disadvantage and

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Speaker 4: different outcomes in those spaces between First Nations people and

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Speaker 4: the rest of the community. And in Linda Bernie. Mind,

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Speaker 4: if we had a voice, those are the kind of

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Speaker 4: questions she would be asking it to help solve.

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Speaker 5: I'll be asking the Voice for their input to solve

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Speaker 5: these most pressing issues, So they will be important. Work

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Speaker 5: in the voices entray from day one.

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Speaker 2: So in laying out those priorities and providing examples, Linda Bernie,

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Speaker 2: there is really trying to provide I guess as much

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Speaker 2: details the government is willing to provide at this time.

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Speaker 2: But the No campaign hasn't only criticized a lack of detail.

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Speaker 2: What else have we been hearing out of the No campaign?

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Speaker 4: Well, maybe the first thing to say, Zara is there

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Speaker 4: are kind of multiple No campaigns and they're very very different.

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Speaker 4: So Independent Senator Lydia Thorpe formerly Green sendl Lydia Thorpe,

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Speaker 4: she's in the No camp, but her views are completely

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Speaker 4: different to just about anybody else in that No camp.

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Speaker 4: She argues that the Voice is a violation of the

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Speaker 4: sovereignty of First Nations people. That essentially, to even put

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Speaker 4: First Nations people in what she would call the colonial

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Speaker 4: constitution is denying the sovereignty of First Nations people. So

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Speaker 4: that's a very different argument to the sort of argument

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Speaker 4: that we're hearing. I guess what you would call the

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Speaker 4: mainstream no position, which is the coalition's position and the

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Speaker 4: Opposition leader's position, And I think i'd separate it into

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Speaker 4: two buckets. Their first line is this thing's not going

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Speaker 4: to work, and so that's where all the detailed stuff

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Speaker 4: comes in. But it's more than just detail. Peter Dutton

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Speaker 4: likes to call it a Canberra Voice, top down, another

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Speaker 4: layer of bureaucracy that's just going to get in the way.

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Speaker 4: It's not going to be associated with real solutions. And

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Speaker 4: the second line is that this is divisive, and so

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Speaker 4: Peter Dutton has started using more and more the language

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Speaker 4: of race. He said that the Voice would re racialize

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Speaker 4: Australia and this idea essentially you're introducing a distinction between

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Speaker 4: First Nations people and non First Nations people into the constitution.

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Speaker 4: His argument is the that's divisive. Those are the two

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Speaker 4: key arguments that the opposition has leveled. So these battle

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Speaker 4: lines have started to be drawn.

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Speaker 3: They have, and I.

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Speaker 2: Mean it was on clear display yesterday when Linda Berney

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Speaker 2: did depart from i mean her pre rehearsed speech. You

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Speaker 2: could tell she came out very strongly against the No

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Speaker 2: campaign and what she believes is their effort to really

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Speaker 2: derail the campaign for a Voice to Parliament.

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Speaker 5: The No campaign is being round by a group called

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Speaker 5: Fair Australia. It is importing Trump style politics to Australia.

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Speaker 5: It is post truth and the same is to polarize.

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Speaker 4: Certainly, heading up, there's Aara and I think that we're

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Speaker 4: going to be hearing a lot more of the politics

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Speaker 4: of this over the next few months, but also a

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Speaker 4: lot more opportunity to talk about all the little details

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Speaker 4: and all the different arguments. I think this will not

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Speaker 4: be the last time we talk about this one.

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Speaker 2: Zara No and I think it's quite complex. So if

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Speaker 2: you do have any questions, absolutely feel free to slide

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Speaker 2: into our DMS and let us know and we'll do

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Speaker 2: our best to answer all of them in further episodes.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us on the Daily OS this morning.

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Speaker 3: If you learned something from today's episode, don't forget to

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Speaker 3: hit subscribe so there's a TDA episode waiting for you

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Speaker 3: every morning. We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have

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Speaker 3: a great day.