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Speaker 1: As we heard from the Deputy Chief Minister, we know

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Speaker 1: that golden snapper stocks in the Greater Darwin region, well,

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Speaker 1: the government's saying that they've dropped a critically low level,

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Speaker 1: sitting at just fourteen percent of unfished numbers. That's according

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Speaker 1: to the latest scientific assessment. Now the Northern Territory government

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Speaker 1: has opened this public consultation urging fishes to have their

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Speaker 1: say on how best to rebuild the stock. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me in the studio to talk more about this is

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Speaker 1: David Chirovolo, the CEO of AFANT. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Hey, good morning Katie, and good morning everyone listening.

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Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show. Now, David, tell

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Speaker 1: me how concerned are recreational fishes about golden snapper stocks.

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Speaker 2: Well, I, like you heard from the minister, then there's

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Speaker 2: been concerns around golden snapper stocks for quite some time.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I think fisheries started talking about golden snapper

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Speaker 2: being an issue of concern back.

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Speaker 3: In twenty eleven.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you know, having said that we've got very healthy

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Speaker 2: stocks of golden snapper.

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Speaker 3: Around the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: But what we're specific talking about here and where the

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Speaker 2: concerns have come up is around the localized fishery in

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Speaker 2: and around Darwin and Dundee. And I guess the question

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Speaker 2: is around you know, what is the extent of that

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Speaker 2: and what action you know needs to be taken, and

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Speaker 2: also how do we mitigate those impacts because you know

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Speaker 2: there are long lived fish. It actually takes a long time.

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Speaker 2: Twenty eleven, they start trying to turn this around. They

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Speaker 2: think there's still some concerns around there. But we also

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Speaker 2: hearing from reckfishes that not everyone's having the same experience

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Speaker 2: on the water. There's a lot of questions around this,

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Speaker 2: and that's why we welcome the opportunity to well.

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Speaker 1: And you said then that you know, twenty eleven is

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Speaker 1: when they started looking at this. Obviously, the figure that

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Speaker 1: the government's given us is fourteen percent when it comes

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Speaker 1: to well, fourteen percent of unfished numbers, that's according to

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Speaker 1: that latest scientific assessment. I mean, what do you make

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Speaker 1: of those numbers? Of that fourteen percent, do you think

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Speaker 1: it's low? Do you think it's high? What a reckfish's

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Speaker 1: telling you.

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Speaker 2: Look, our fisheries managers and our fishery scientists a good

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Speaker 2: piece people who have a really difficult job to do.

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Speaker 2: And one of the biggest challenges around their job has

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Speaker 2: been the resourcing over consecutive decades. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: assumptions that go into a stock assessment. So it is

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Speaker 2: the best available science, but it certainly we believe we

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Speaker 2: need to get the science better going into the future

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Speaker 2: no matter what happens here. So whether we end up

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Speaker 2: in a situation whereas one of the questions in they

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Speaker 2: have you say, is could be shutting down or refishing

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Speaker 2: for five months of the year, we know generally to

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Speaker 2: recover golden snapper it could take fourteen years, So this

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Speaker 2: could be a long term impact. Whether it's that or

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Speaker 2: whether it's a more a less aggressive approach, getting the

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Speaker 2: data right to measure that is going to be absolutely critical,

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Speaker 2: especially if there's an expectation that all of those businesses

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Speaker 2: that rely on recreational fishing and everybody whose territory lifestyle

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Speaker 2: revolves around going fishing could be severely impacted.

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Speaker 1: So do you reckon that fourteen percent is accurate?

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Speaker 2: I think that, but it's the best number that fisheries

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Speaker 2: have been able to produce with what they have. Some

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Speaker 2: of the assumptions in the stock assessment relate to how

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Speaker 2: far offshore the snap of fishery extends and what fish

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Speaker 2: are considered part of this population and which are not,

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Speaker 2: and there is very little data on that.

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Speaker 1: There are some more data before we look at sort

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Speaker 1: of restricting things or totally changing the way that fishermen

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Speaker 1: are doing things.

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Speaker 2: It's a really tricky question. It's a very good question

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Speaker 2: that you ask, Katie. Typically when we don't have good

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Speaker 2: enough information, we don't like to use that as an

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Speaker 2: excuse not to do anything. But there is management currently

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Speaker 2: in place. We've got reduced bag limits that were bought

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Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen. We've had areas of big areas that

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Speaker 2: have been closed since twenty fifteen. I think if you

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Speaker 2: hear from the community, as I said, people have different

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Speaker 2: experiences and there is an appetite out there to do

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Speaker 2: the right thing. But we have got to invest in

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Speaker 2: collecting better data. The fishing tour industry data that comes

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Speaker 2: from people doing charters is simply not good enough, and

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Speaker 2: the data from recreational fishes need serious investment. We need

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Speaker 2: to have boat ramp surveys, but we also and one

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Speaker 2: thing I really welcome is the Minister has been talking

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Speaker 2: about wanting fishes to own this plan, wanting fishes to

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Speaker 2: lead in this space, and we think that collecting data

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Speaker 2: is a place where we know We've got lots of

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Speaker 2: members and fishes who want to get involved in tagging fish,

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Speaker 2: understanding where they go, how far offshore do they go,

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Speaker 2: how quickly do they grow. We have to invest in

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Speaker 2: that as well as any other measures that we put

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Speaker 2: in place.

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Speaker 1: So what measures would our recreational fishes support, do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's why it's so important for people to jump

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Speaker 2: on and have their say, because the survey asks those questions,

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Speaker 2: and it asks about you know, what would you think

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Speaker 2: about shutting down all refishing? What it says golden snapper.

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Speaker 2: But let's be clear about this. You don't know when

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Speaker 2: you're going to catch a golden snapper, and there is

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Speaker 2: concern about releasing golden snapper in deep water. Our understanding

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Speaker 2: is that a ban on golden snapper will be a

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Speaker 2: ban on all refishing. So one of the proposals in

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Speaker 2: the Have your Say is to close all refishing for

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Speaker 2: two months or three months or five months of the year.

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Speaker 1: And that's likely to be people think of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of people would realize that

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Speaker 2: Number one, it's going to be quite impactful on their lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: I think for our fishing tourism businesses, it would be

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Speaker 2: the end of many of those businesses if it happened

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Speaker 2: in a hurry or without an adjustment package. But we

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Speaker 2: have to we really have to look at how do

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Speaker 2: we how do we achieve all the things because we

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Speaker 2: want to have vibrant territory lifestyle.

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Speaker 3: We want people to go fishing and be connected to

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Speaker 3: the ocean.

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Speaker 2: And what's so great about living in the territory. We

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Speaker 2: want our businesses to be viable. You know, I've heard

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Speaker 2: the ads on your REP station talking about it being

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Speaker 2: four hundred million dollars. Whether whether you'd take the three

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Speaker 2: or four hundred million dollars two and a half thousand

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Speaker 2: full time jobs in recreational fishing in the territory.

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Speaker 1: It's massive.

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Speaker 2: So even you know, the revenue alone that comes to

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Speaker 2: the territory coffers from GST revenue, the fuel excise that

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Speaker 2: recreational fishes pay that they're not using on the road

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Speaker 2: but they're using in the sea, that comes back from

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Speaker 2: the federal government into infrastructure projects in the territory. I

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Speaker 2: think we need to see going forward, a better investment

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Speaker 2: in our research and specifically in empowering fishing tour operators

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Speaker 2: who have been asking for this for quite some time

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Speaker 2: and recreational fishes to partner with AFAN and to partner

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Speaker 2: with the territory government to collect better data. Yep. And

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Speaker 2: in the meantime we're going to have to see what

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Speaker 2: plan the territory government comes up with for the recovery

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Speaker 2: of the stocks.

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Speaker 1: So the key message really to anybody out there this

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Speaker 1: morning that fishes is that you need to jump online

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Speaker 1: and you need to be part of this survey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, jump on there. Have you say, share your experiences.

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Speaker 2: There's a couple of spaces in the survey where you

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Speaker 2: can sort of free form, you can add your own ideas.

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Speaker 2: We certainly encourage people to contact us. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people have been doing that, OK.

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Speaker 3: I do want to.

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Speaker 2: Highlight that in encouraging people do this survey. When they

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Speaker 2: get towards the end of it, there's a couple of

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Speaker 2: questions around it says like would you if this was

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Speaker 2: the rules, would you support and comply? We think that

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Speaker 2: question is a bit confusing because supports one thing and

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Speaker 2: complies another, and then it asks, you know, would you comply?

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Speaker 2: And it basically means if this was the rules, like

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Speaker 2: would you follow the rules? We would encourage everybody to

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Speaker 2: say yes to that question. We've spoken to the Department

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Speaker 2: about it. We think it's clunky. We know that they've

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Speaker 2: used a third party provider to do the survey.

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Speaker 3: We want to see.

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Speaker 2: Those answers being discounted in whatever goes forward, because I

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Speaker 2: don't really think you can ask people are they going

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Speaker 2: to follow the law and either not be getting a

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Speaker 2: protest or having people say, well, whatever it is, I

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Speaker 2: would follow the law. So that's the only part we're

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Speaker 2: not thrilled with. But I want to say that overall,

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Speaker 2: the Minister has been really upfront about wanting to hear

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Speaker 2: from fishes that he takes the science, but he knows

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Speaker 2: that fishes or we know, and I think the Minister

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Speaker 2: knows that all fishes have a lot of ecological knowledge

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Speaker 2: from ours out there on the water, the experience of

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Speaker 2: their life, of their life on the water. It's really

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Speaker 2: important to capture.

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Speaker 1: That, all right, David, before I let you go, a

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Speaker 1: couple of quick ones, well I don't know if they'll

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Speaker 1: be that quick, but we'll ask you quickly. Hey, the

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Speaker 1: gill nets, where are things out from our fads perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've obviously been keeping abreast of this and

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Speaker 2: getting updates from the Department. Our understanding is that things

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Speaker 2: are on track for next year to be the last

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Speaker 2: Barramundy guillnet fishing season. That's our expectation that, you know,

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Speaker 2: September after September next year, there shouldn't be any more

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Speaker 2: guil netting for Barramundy in the Barramundy commercial fishery. That's

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Speaker 2: in line with what the government has has promised. We've

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Speaker 2: also seen reports from fisheries of significantly less effort going

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Speaker 2: into the fishery at the moment, with the major players

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Speaker 2: no longer using their gill nets and in fact leasing

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Speaker 2: them to other parties. We have been getting reports from

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Speaker 2: the community of gilnetting happening in places where they've got questions,

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Speaker 2: and I just encourage people to always send that through

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Speaker 2: to us. We follow up with the Department. There was

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Speaker 2: one in fog Bay a couple of weeks ago. We

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Speaker 2: were able to follow up with the Department and the

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Speaker 2: Department said, look, we don't have concerns in terms of

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Speaker 2: our closure lines. As to whether those operators have permission

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Speaker 2: of traditional owners is a matter for them. And the

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Speaker 2: traditional owners. So people have questions, follow up with us

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Speaker 2: and we will make sure they get an answer absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Hey, before I let you go, we've all been talking

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Speaker 1: about petrol prices. We know that they are astronomically high.

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Speaker 1: I was in at fishing an Outdoor World yesterday. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about how good the fishing is going to be

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Speaker 1: over the coming weeks and months. How big an impact

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Speaker 1: do you think that these fuel prices could potentially have,

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Speaker 1: and you know that fuel security as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so one of the best run off seasons you know,

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Speaker 2: in history is awaiting us. And you know, I think

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Speaker 2: some fishes are going to feel like, you know that

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Speaker 2: we've got one hand tied behind their back or their wallets.

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Speaker 3: You know. Fuse shut is a real concern.

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Speaker 2: We've obviously got to wait for silver water to receive

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Speaker 2: in some places and for our roads to become fully open.

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Speaker 2: But look, yeah, there is real concerns both from a

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Speaker 2: tourism and the visitation perspective and people coming up here

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Speaker 2: for the dry season and also people you know, really

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Speaker 2: getting getting it sort of hurt in the hip pocket.

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Speaker 2: But the fishing is going to be really good out there,

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Speaker 2: so you know, pick pick the tides. You know, pick

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Speaker 2: the brains of experts. Visit your local tackle shop. These

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Speaker 2: people live and breathe fishing and they can give people advice.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people, some terroristians like, give them advice.

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Speaker 2: They know what they're doing. They've been waiting for this day.

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Speaker 2: So those people don't need help. But for other people,

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Speaker 2: talk to the local tackle shop and they can help them.

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Speaker 3: Pinpoint, Well, when you're going.

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Speaker 2: To go and you're going to spend your money, how

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Speaker 2: can you go on the best tides to the best

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Speaker 2: place on the best day, and that local advice is abundant. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's going to be a good weekend for Easter.

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Speaker 3: I think it is going to be a good weekend.

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Speaker 3: They said this. There might be a little bit more

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Speaker 3: moisture around.

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Speaker 2: We always get, you know, big tides around Easter because

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Speaker 2: of the moon. But look, I think keep an eye

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Speaker 2: on the road reports, you know, plan ahead and as

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Speaker 2: I said, call into your local tackle shop and just

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Speaker 2: put a bit put a bit of thought into it

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Speaker 2: this year. But the fishing is going to be really

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Speaker 2: good out there. It's already really good out there, So

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Speaker 2: you know, it's money well spent, Katie, it's money well

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Speaker 2: spent and don't don't let this wet, don't let this

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Speaker 2: you know, run off go by and be left wondering.

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Speaker 2: Get out there and get a fish on.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well, David Girovolo. Always great to catch up with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, thank you