1
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the

2
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

3
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:10,399
Speaker 2: Now.

4
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,760
Speaker 1: Every now and again, on the Happy Families Podcast, we

5
00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 1: get to talk to fascinating people with fabulous ideas. A

6
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,280
Speaker 1: little while ago, we did a Bringing Up Boys summit.

7
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,920
Speaker 1: One of my guests on the summit was the high

8
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: profile Mea Friedman, and Mea joined me for around about

9
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 1: a forty five to fifty minute conversation talking about all

10
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: things boys, raising boys. She's raised one to adulthood and

11
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,400
Speaker 1: the second one is well and truly on his way

12
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 1: to adulthood. Now. I asked, Mia, what is masculinity like?

13
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: How would you, as somebody who works in an area

14
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,839
Speaker 1: where these conversations are being had all the time, how

15
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,200
Speaker 1: would mea Friedman define masculinity and what is a masculine

16
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,080
Speaker 1: boy or man to you?

17
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 2: I think the gender roles of prisons, whether they're prisons

18
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 2: for women, they're also prisons for men. And I think

19
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 2: we've done an enormously successful job of widening what it

20
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 2: means to be a girl or a woman over the

21
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,080
Speaker 2: last few generations. But I heard Glorious Dinah once say

22
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 2: that you know their prisons for men as well. Even

23
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 2: if the man's prison has like wall to wall carpet

24
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 2: and someone to bring your coffee, it's still a prison

25
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 2: in terms of its constraining to think that our lives,

26
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,760
Speaker 2: pretty as women are pretty unrecognizable from the lives of

27
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 2: our grandmothers and great grandmothers. Right like, neither of my

28
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,319
Speaker 2: great grandmothers worked outside the home, neither of them could drive,

29
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 2: they could vote, but my great grandmothers probably couldn't. And

30
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 2: yet our partners' lives, if they're male, men's lives are

31
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 2: pretty similar to their fathers, their grandfathers, their great grandfathers,

32
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 2: their great great grandfathers, in that they're probably the you know,

33
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 2: main bread rinners in most in most households, they probably

34
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 2: don't do have a whole lot to do with the children,

35
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 2: although I do think that's changing. They certainly wouldn't have

36
00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,560
Speaker 2: taken parental leave or you know, likely that any of

37
00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 2: that would happen. So I think that while our definition

38
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 2: of what it means to be a woman or what

39
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 2: it means to be a good mother has changed a lot,

40
00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,640
Speaker 2: I don't think it's changed nearly enough for men, And

41
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 2: I think that we have to make that change for

42
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 2: our sons in showing them that boys can cry, boys

43
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 2: can wear dresses, boys can do all manner of things.

44
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,360
Speaker 2: And I'll quote my friend Holly wayIn Wright, who I

45
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 2: work with here at Mammea, and she said that she

46
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,640
Speaker 2: realized she'd gone a bit far when her son said

47
00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 2: to her. She's got a daughter and a son. Her

48
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 2: son said to her, when I grow up, I want

49
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 2: to be a girl. And she's like, Holly's like, oh

50
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 2: that's interesting, Billy, how come? And he said, well, because

51
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 2: girls can do anything. And that's when she thought, oh, okay,

52
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 2: I might have overcorrected, Like I've been so focused on

53
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 2: telling my daughter she can be anything and do anything

54
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,920
Speaker 2: that I haven't given that same message to my son.

55
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a message that our boys

56
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,080
Speaker 1: are getting that girls can do anything, or that boys

57
00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,519
Speaker 1: are somehow deficient. I mean, when you look at the research,

58
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,000
Speaker 1: boys underperform at school relative to girls. Boys matriculate to

59
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 1: and through university at lower levels to girls. Boys are

60
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 1: much more likely to be overrepresented on detention or writing

61
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 1: lines or getting in trouble at school.

62
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 2: They're more likely.

63
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 1: Overrepresented with drug and alcohol abuse, with violent acts in prisons.

64
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: What's the mood. Do you think I mean, I talk

65
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,640
Speaker 1: to parents all the time who are saying, I'm worried

66
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,640
Speaker 1: about my boys, But do you think that boys are

67
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,800
Speaker 1: actually saying, Yeah, girls can do anything and boys just

68
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,600
Speaker 1: aren't as good. Do you think that there's a even

69
00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 1: though boys have always had all these freedoms, that there's

70
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,760
Speaker 1: some sort of mismatch here between freedom and actually being

71
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 1: able to do what that freedom should allow.

72
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 2: I think that because we are living through a big

73
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,640
Speaker 2: correction in a lot of ways in terms of civil rights,

74
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 2: in terms of gender equality, the Meat Too movement, conversations

75
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 2: about consent and sexual assault, I think that boys who

76
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 2: are watching listening to all of these conversations happening around

77
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 2: them could be getting the idea that they're really bad,

78
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 2: that they are the cause of all the problems in

79
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 2: the world, that they are the cause of all the

80
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:19,479
Speaker 2: problems for women, and that women don't like boys or

81
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,880
Speaker 2: men very much. And I'm not even talking about strident feminism,

82
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,480
Speaker 2: because feminism is not, and certainly never has been to

83
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 2: me in my household, about girls are better than boys.

84
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,720
Speaker 2: It's more just there's always been an inequality, and we've

85
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:38,800
Speaker 2: tried to redress that by building girls up. But I

86
00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 2: think because we've told girls they can do anything, I

87
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 2: don't think we've said the same thing to boys. And

88
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 2: even if that means you can stay at home and

89
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,359
Speaker 2: raise kids, you don't have to, you know, work in

90
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 2: an office and wear a suit, you know you can.

91
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 2: There are so many different ways to be a boy

92
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 2: in the world, and I think that's really important, particularly

93
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 2: if you're the parent of both, because you know, I'm

94
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 2: very conscious of giving my daughter all these empowering messages,

95
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,360
Speaker 2: but my younger son is listening to all of those

96
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,839
Speaker 2: messages and the conversations that we have about consent and

97
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,880
Speaker 2: about danger and about predators and about sexual harassment, and

98
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 2: he hears when we talk about her getting harassed in

99
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 2: the street and how awful that is, and if you

100
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,839
Speaker 2: can extrapolate that to mean all men about and I'm

101
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 2: part of a group that is inherently bad when that's

102
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 2: just not true.

103
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned that. I actually had

104
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 1: a question here. I was going to ask you, how

105
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: do we make sure that boys aren't demonized? Yeah, which

106
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: is kind of the extension of what you're just saying.

107
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 1: How do we move from not just making sure that

108
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 1: they know that it's not true. But I mean there

109
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,840
Speaker 1: are hashtags. There are some vile hashtags out there. I

110
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,720
Speaker 1: know Twitter is not representative of the real world. And

111
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: you mentioned even when I mentioned feminism at the beginning

112
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 1: of our conversation, I noticed that there was a little

113
00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 1: bit of an eyebrow raise. You're like, well, where are

114
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 1: we going to go with this big because there's a

115
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 1: really milion.

116
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 2: No, no, just that you called it the F word, as

117
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 2: if it was somehow like, oh, feminism. It's just like,

118
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 2: I feel like that idea is really tired, that it's

119
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 2: we've got to somehow apologize or feminism is this big

120
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 2: scary thing. It's like, my kids are feminists, all of them.

121
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 2: They know their dads Like, it's just it's not a

122
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,159
Speaker 2: big deal, nor should it be a big deal. But yeah,

123
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 2: I think it's as important to raise feminist sons as

124
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 2: it is to raise feminist daughters.

125
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then to finish that, you get to that

126
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,920
Speaker 1: militant feminism and where you've got the hashtag kill all men.

127
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 1: Ah and and and that's that's kind of where I

128
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,240
Speaker 1: was going with the In some in some quarters, feminism

129
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 1: has moved more and more extreme so that it can

130
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,719
Speaker 1: quote unquote stay relevant or stay in there in the news.

131
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 1: And what you're suggesting instead is, let's just make sure

132
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 1: that we treat everybody, everybody like We don't have to

133
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,920
Speaker 1: have this militant man hating aspect.

134
00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,359
Speaker 2: That's not what feminism is. And I think that the

135
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 2: people who carry on like that really eve misrepresent it.

136
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,920
Speaker 2: And that's why I, you know, roll my eyes. I'm

137
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,800
Speaker 2: as exasperated with those people as I am with people

138
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 2: who don't believe that women should have equal rights. I

139
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,800
Speaker 2: think that they're both polar extremes of a very wide spectrum.

140
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 2: And really, we don't want anyone to be getting those

141
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,679
Speaker 2: kinds of negative messages about male tears. And I find

142
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 2: that just absolutely repugnant, you know, mocking men in any

143
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 2: way I find, you know, incredibly unhelpful and actually just

144
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 2: detrimental to the cause.

145
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 1: It's interesting, again, listen to the way you're talking about this.

146
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,680
Speaker 1: I think about what boys want, and I know that

147
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 1: as I talk to them, they want to Most of

148
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 1: them want to have really good relationships with the people

149
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 1: around them. They want to be as they want to.

150
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 1: And yet there is that narrative that seems to be

151
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 1: bubbling up with things like me too, and with that

152
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 1: more militant arm that boys need to be demonized, there's

153
00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: a problem with them. Let me ask you this mea

154
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 1: what do you see? I mean, this whole summit has

155
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 1: been about all the different things that boys are struggling with,

156
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: but in terms of you being the mum of two

157
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 1: boys and also the person who is really watching what's

158
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 1: happening in terms of movements and who's making noise here,

159
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,560
Speaker 1: there and everywhere and why, what do you see is

160
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 1: the biggest issues that boys are facing right now? And therefore,

161
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 1: parents of boys, what a great question.

162
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 2: I think. As I said, we've shifted a long way

163
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 2: in a short amount of time. Even between when my

164
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,679
Speaker 2: son who's twenty four as a teenager and my young

165
00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 2: my oldest son and my youngest son. You know, that's

166
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 2: a gap of eleven years, and I've seen a massive

167
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:44,400
Speaker 2: difference in you know, consent was not a word that

168
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,679
Speaker 2: was even used when my son was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen sixteen.

169
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 2: I used to say things to my son and his

170
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,079
Speaker 2: friends before, you know, as I drive and drop them

171
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,199
Speaker 2: to their night out or drive them to sports training,

172
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 2: I'd be like at the party, you want to be

173
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 2: the one that holds the drunk girl's hair back, not

174
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 2: the one who's trying to pull her pants down. And

175
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 2: you be that guy, Be that guy who makes sure

176
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 2: the girls get home. And I think that that that

177
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 2: idea has been taken so much further by amazing women

178
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,959
Speaker 2: like Sheanel Contos and Grace Team as well. I think

179
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 2: that we've almost in some areas demonized the idea of

180
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 2: boys being a little bit awkward, a little bit I

181
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:36,000
Speaker 2: don't know, exuberant sometimes and we've tried to either tell

182
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,559
Speaker 2: them that they've got to be tough guys, or if

183
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,480
Speaker 2: they show any sign of you know, rebellion or whatever,

184
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,960
Speaker 2: completely freaking out and coming down on them like a

185
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 2: ton of bricks. And I think that the hardest thing

186
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,319
Speaker 2: now that I've experienced being the mother of teenage girls

187
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 2: and tenage boys and boys and girls like girls will

188
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,000
Speaker 2: talk about their feelings all the time, but boys won't.

189
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 2: And I'm just at the begin of that awful tunnel

190
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 2: that they go into with my youngest, which is breaking

191
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,920
Speaker 2: my heart every day, where he doesn't talk to me anymore,

192
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 2: and he doesn't want to look at me and my

193
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:14,200
Speaker 2: body discuss him and he barely will look me in

194
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 2: the eye or acknowledge my existence. And it makes me

195
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 2: incredibly emotional to think about the little boy who wanted

196
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,719
Speaker 2: nothing more than to give me a cuddle or come

197
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 2: into bed with me, or have me cuddle him in bed,

198
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,079
Speaker 2: and all of that, and all of that's gone and

199
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 2: seemingly gone quickly, like seemingly gone overnight, and the heartbreak

200
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,600
Speaker 2: of that is so real for me. But what it's

201
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 2: left him without is the ability to talk in the

202
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 2: way that he used to be able to talk to me,

203
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 2: because I don't believe that boys necessarily talk to their

204
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,640
Speaker 2: friends like that. So I'm aware all of a sudden

205
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 2: that there is this vacuum in his life that I

206
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 2: can't feel anymore. And it's like there's this wall that's

207
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 2: gone down, and he's kind of, I won't say lost

208
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,439
Speaker 2: to me, but I'm cut off from him for years now,

209
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 2: and that's personally distressing, but also as his mother, you know,

210
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,560
Speaker 2: I worry about what does get in there, from pawn,

211
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 2: from the internet, from gaming, from you know, everything else,

212
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 2: from YouTube, from everything else he's exposed to. Because it's

213
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 2: this is the age where my role as a parent.

214
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 2: I remember Paul Dylan once said to us in a

215
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,520
Speaker 2: parent conversation Paul Dylan, who's a brilliant drug and alcohol speaker.

216
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 2: He said, you know, at around this age in high school,

217
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,439
Speaker 2: you go from being your child's manager to being a consultant.

218
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 2: And even though it can feel like you know when

219
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 2: your kids are little, you can you've got more than one.

220
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,319
Speaker 2: Particularly can be like, oh my god, well they ever

221
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,360
Speaker 2: stop having to manage this child? And then it's like

222
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,080
Speaker 2: I'm suddenly about being made redundant and I've been scaled

223
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,600
Speaker 2: back to a consultant, and you're like, oh, it can

224
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:53,439
Speaker 2: come as your shock.

225
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: Always liked my conversations with me a Friedman. You can

226
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,560
Speaker 1: find more that discussion, as well as a whole lot

227
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,320
Speaker 1: of other experts talking about bringing up boys. By googling

228
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,280
Speaker 1: Happy Families, Bringing Up Boys Summit. All the information will

229
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: come up to you in the Happy Families web shop

230
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 1: if you're bringing up boys and you'd like to know

231
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 1: how you can do it better, how you can protect them,

232
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 1: how you can help them to have a healthy form

233
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 1: of masculinity. Hey, thank you so much for joining me

234
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: in the podcast. Today. Tomorrow Kylo joins me again in

235
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,760
Speaker 1: the studio as we continue the Happy Families summer podcast

236
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,319
Speaker 1: series