Speaker 1: I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners on which this
Speaker 1: episode is being recorded, the combo marry people. We pay
Speaker 1: our respects to elders past, present and emerging, and extend
Speaker 1: that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson, and this is the Rise
Speaker 1: and Conquer Podcast. This is the podcast where we ch
Speaker 1: have mindset, self development and becoming your higher self mix
Speaker 1: soon with a lot of laughs, plus behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of my life running two businesses and being among Think
Speaker 1: of us as the perfect combo of brunch with your
Speaker 1: besties mixed with self development. No matter where you are
Speaker 1: in your journey, we're here to help you be curious,
Speaker 1: pull yourself out and embrace radical self awareness. If you're
Speaker 1: ready to get into the driver's seat of your own
Speaker 1: life and stop letting life cast you by, then you're
Speaker 1: in the right place. We're back, r and C fam Hello,
Speaker 1: dear turn on your mind. Sorry guys, we are back
Speaker 1: and so excited to be back in your ears. So
Speaker 1: you may have noticed, but we've got a bit of
Speaker 1: a refresh for the podcast. I personally think it looks
Speaker 1: amazing because you like created it to us. I also
Speaker 1: personally think it looks great. No guys, So we reached
Speaker 1: ten million downloads. This was a huge milestone for us,
Speaker 1: and so we thought, we're taking it to the next level.
Speaker 1: We're refreshing the podcast. You know, we're really embonding what
Speaker 1: we preach on here, and it involved a bit of
Speaker 1: a refresh. And also we have a very excit series
Speaker 1: starting on Friday. And that told you it is allowed
Speaker 1: to say, I Tea, let's just tell them. You're so
Speaker 1: tight lipped on this, I know. So basically, yes, we've
Speaker 1: got a very exciting series starting Friday. This is what
Speaker 1: all the mysteriousness has been about. But today we're easing
Speaker 1: back into it and we have a beautiful Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with this interviewer, Tea. It was literally perfect,
Speaker 1: Like I I was listening back with my mouth open, like,
Speaker 1: so many golden nuggets here, so many good points. Today
Speaker 1: we are chatting with Holly Azo Party. She is the
Speaker 1: author of the book The People pleas As Guide to
Speaker 1: Putting Yourself First, and so we're chatting about selfishness, setting boundaries,
Speaker 1: the concept of hyper availability. Basically, if you're someone who
Speaker 1: you potentially could be a bit of a people please
Speaker 1: aren't and you I will just say no, or you
Speaker 1: just feel guilty when you put yourself first. This episode
Speaker 1: is going to blow your mind. I just I loved
Speaker 1: the bit where we spoke about language and how like
Speaker 1: if you actually look at what word selfishness means, like
Speaker 1: we're not being selfish our self first, And that was
Speaker 1: just such a big aha moment for me personally. I
Speaker 1: also loved when you guys spoke about hyper availability because
Speaker 1: I think it's something I hadn't thought about before, but
Speaker 1: it was a pressure I put on myself, Yeah, to
Speaker 1: be available to everyone at any time. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: am always like the friend that like if someone messages me,
Speaker 1: I'm going to pick up my phone and respond, even
Speaker 1: if I'm literally get off your phone. She's like, hang on, Georgie,
Speaker 1: I've just gotta put through this. Sure. It's actually more
Speaker 1: like when I'm going to bed and you're like about
Speaker 1: to go to sleep and then you get a message
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, better just reply. They like emotionally
Speaker 1: dump on you or like they do something, or even
Speaker 1: if it's just like hey, I want to have a
Speaker 1: chat and I'm like I'm okay, I'm so tired. But okay,
Speaker 1: oh I love that. That's such a good ahat moment.
Speaker 1: So I loved that chat in there too. This episode
Speaker 1: is honestly amazing, guys. And if I will be honest
Speaker 1: with you, I didn't consider myself a people pleaser, but
Speaker 1: after reading Holly's book, I did realize I had some
Speaker 1: tendencies and things that especially as a mother as a wife,
Speaker 1: you just think, oh, it's normal, I should just do
Speaker 1: these things. But this book really makes you think twice.
Speaker 1: And Holly just explains it so beautifully, and she articulates
Speaker 1: everything so beautifully. Yeah, and I think if you do
Speaker 1: enjoy this interview, I would recommend getting the book to
Speaker 1: read because I also wouldn't have said that I'm the
Speaker 1: biggest people pleaser, but after reading the book, I was like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: I don't know that was Yeah, that was me to
Speaker 1: honestly get your hands on the book. Guys, before we
Speaker 1: get into the show, to here a quick little life update.
Speaker 1: What have you been doing all the week off? Oh,
Speaker 1: even though you've been working, but just had a party
Speaker 1: the whole week. No, nothing crazy, just working, going to
Speaker 1: the gym. I went to see Hamilton the Musical. So
Speaker 1: any Brisbane galleyes that you loved it. I loved it.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with it. I think it's best. And also
Speaker 1: me and a Tear are both seeing Harry Styles tonight,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited for Harry Styles. So excited to
Speaker 1: see Harry. I've been listening to his music all like
Speaker 1: time and like all the live shows and just like
Speaker 1: I can't wait to be that. Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: It seem so funny. I've actually never been to a
Speaker 1: concert really, like I've been to a YouTube concert with
Speaker 1: my parents, but like when I was sixteen, I've never
Speaker 1: been to a concert like when I'm older. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you're gonna love it. I've been to festivals. I've never
Speaker 1: been to festival, so that's like, I'm sure they're similar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very I would say very similar, just people aren't as drunk. Interesting,
Speaker 1: So I can't wait. But yeah. I also had a
Speaker 1: really beautiful weekend with my husband. We went to housing
Speaker 1: and house at Cabareta and it looked beautiful on the weekend,
Speaker 1: IV free and it was so good for it was
Speaker 1: really good just for us. I think when you have
Speaker 1: a child, you like your relationship is like the first
Speaker 1: thing you kind of like shelf because like will me
Speaker 1: personally like me and team's relationship feels so solid, it's
Speaker 1: so easy to just like put it to the side. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's fine, it's always going to be there.
Speaker 1: But this weekend really made me have a big think about, like,
Speaker 1: you know what we talk about on this podcast, like
Speaker 1: if I want an extraordinary life, if I want an
Speaker 1: extraordinary relationship with my husband, like I do need to
Speaker 1: put in the work and effort and I do need
Speaker 1: to prioritize it. So I'm really really happy we did
Speaker 1: that for us and we had some really beautiful conversations
Speaker 1: and yeah, it was incredible. I love that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think like we both are like, oh, we need to
Speaker 1: do this more. So it's like it was a really
Speaker 1: big goal. How often are you going to do it? Well,
Speaker 1: we actually have things booked in every single month. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it does sometimes it does include IVY, but we also
Speaker 1: are doing the date night. But it's just more when
Speaker 1: we are we actually do have some goals. A big
Speaker 1: thing for us is we want to do one day
Speaker 1: on the weekend no phones, just us time literally putting
Speaker 1: phones in the drawer. And then also eight pm every
Speaker 1: night we have an alarm that goes off that says
Speaker 1: phones away, connection time. So I will let you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll have to.
Speaker 1: I'd love to know how the no phones day goes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that's what the biggest thing that comes in between
Speaker 1: me and Tim connecting is obviously Ivy. But then when
Speaker 1: Ivy's not there, it's like I'm catching up on emails
Speaker 1: or he's like fucking watching golf or some shit, and
Speaker 1: just like because you're so like zoned from the day,
Speaker 1: you just want to like zone out. And we've noticed
Speaker 1: that's such a huge, like huge barrier. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: we're working on. I love that. So yeah, anyway, let's
Speaker 1: get into the podcast. But how's the book launch going.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's surreal. It's just surreal. Like I
Speaker 2: can't believe people have it in their homes and you're
Speaker 2: holding it right now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I got a physical boy book. I know it's cool.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, it feels good. It's amazing that it's out now.
Speaker 1: I was just talking to my producer, a Tia because
Speaker 1: she's read it as well, and she's like, I loved
Speaker 1: it so much. The only thing is she didn't want
Speaker 1: to write in the book to do the active piece.
Speaker 1: So she's like, I need to reread it and like
Speaker 1: do the activities over here because it's so pretty.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I actually can't even take credit for the
Speaker 2: design that was like the publishers. But I know of
Speaker 2: people who have bought two copies, one to write in
Speaker 2: and one could just pa us their nice coffee. So
Speaker 2: you know, if there's that idea, and I'm not going
Speaker 2: to compline of people of buying multiple coffees as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, look, it's fine, I get esthetic exactly. No,
Speaker 1: that is so so amazing. I am honestly just so
Speaker 1: happy for you. I'm proud of you. It's really incredible.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it and like, you know, putting yourself first,
Speaker 1: like this is such.
Speaker 2: An important issue.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I've been going a lot of things,
Speaker 1: going through a couple of things with people pleasing, with
Speaker 1: just the thought of I haven't I feel like I've
Speaker 1: never put myself in the box of I'm a people pleaser.
Speaker 1: But then as I was, you know, reading the book,
Speaker 1: and as I get older, I feel like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: I realized I do still need stronger boundaries and I
Speaker 1: do still need to you know, think about these things
Speaker 1: because much like you're say in the book of just like,
Speaker 1: we don't even realize that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I think there's this stereotype of what
Speaker 2: a people pleaser is, which is, you know, the pushover
Speaker 2: or the person in never speaks up for themselves or
Speaker 2: never chooses themselves. And that's like any stereotype, the extreme version.
Speaker 2: But you look at especially for me personally, I look
Speaker 2: at the women in my life, you know, my mother
Speaker 2: and my grandmother's and the archetype of you know, you
Speaker 2: always put the family first and you always do all
Speaker 2: the things. It's just such a societal expectation. And then
Speaker 2: you look at that and you go hand in a second.
Speaker 1: But why yeah, you don't even second guess it because
Speaker 1: it literally just feels like, oh, I'm a mother of course,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense exactly.
Speaker 2: So it's been an interesting one because I wrote the
Speaker 2: book Pregnant I wasn't a mother yet, and then I
Speaker 2: edited now in the baby stage, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I actually need to learn from the maiden version of me,
Speaker 2: Like this is really confronting, but it helped me through
Speaker 2: that newborn stage in becoming a mother, because I was
Speaker 2: putting all the activities into practice and discovering myself again,
Speaker 2: which was really amazing, so so incredible.
Speaker 1: I can imagine that being such a yeah, really raw
Speaker 1: and you know, amazing time to then edit the book
Speaker 1: when you are a new mum for sure. Sorry I've
Speaker 1: just gone straight into it, but I will hear this,
Speaker 1: so guys, sorry, let's backtrack. Holy welcome to the RNC podcast.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I was like, are we Are we straight in?
Speaker 2: Because I can I can put my podcast now.
Speaker 1: I love this. Thanks for having me, guys. Me and
Speaker 1: Holly are are always in each other's DM so you
Speaker 1: just got a taste of us just catching up. Yes,
Speaker 1: but Holly, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: have you on here today and really unpack your new book,
Speaker 1: people please as guide to putting yourself first. It's just
Speaker 1: it's so incredible. I've read it at Reddit Jamie's reddit,
Speaker 1: and like I said before, you should just be so proud.
Speaker 1: But can you give the audience a little rundown of
Speaker 1: who you are, what you do, and how this amazing
Speaker 1: piece of art came to life.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for referring to it as a
Speaker 2: piece of art.
Speaker 1: That's so kind of art.
Speaker 2: So yes, my name's Holly. At this phase of my life,
Speaker 2: I find myself really hard to define what I'm doing
Speaker 2: and who I am and like you and the reason
Speaker 2: that we slide into each other's dms. We became mothers
Speaker 2: I think, three weeks apart from each other to our
Speaker 2: little girls. So the last year in my life has
Speaker 2: been navigating new motherhood. But underneath all of that, I
Speaker 2: am a writer and writing a book has been my
Speaker 2: biggest vision and dream since I was, you know, five
Speaker 2: years old, though this book has been a long time coming.
Speaker 2: And in addition to that, I am an intuitive reader
Speaker 2: and astrologer, and I mentor and guide people in the
Speaker 2: space of living their best life, but with the focus
Speaker 2: on spirituality and personal development. So what you'll find in
Speaker 2: this book is, yeah, a culmination of my teachings when
Speaker 2: it comes to choosing you in your life no matter
Speaker 2: what you're navigating. I guess practices that I use to
Speaker 2: help people come back to themselves.
Speaker 1: So incredible. Can I just say, when you know Ivy
Speaker 1: was a newborn and I was going through a really
Speaker 1: tough time, reading your posts on Instagram honestly got me
Speaker 1: through because I felt so seen and I felt so
Speaker 1: you know, hearing another mother's raw and real thoughts in
Speaker 1: those moments where I felt really alone and really confused,
Speaker 1: and you know, as you know, it's such a whole
Speaker 1: new journey and it ripped your heart open best way possible.
Speaker 1: But reading your words and really sitting with them was
Speaker 1: honestly the most incredible and comforting thing that got me
Speaker 1: through my newborn journey.
Speaker 2: Oh I can't handle that. Oh you'll get me crying big. No, truly, Gal,
Speaker 2: I feel the same about you. I was, you know,
Speaker 2: constantly reaching out because I feel like we did traverse
Speaker 2: such similar experiences, especially you know, through our breastfeeding experiences
Speaker 2: and all of it. Really, I know our labors went
Speaker 2: similar ways, and I found comforting a lot of what
Speaker 2: you shared, So I feel like it was a very
Speaker 2: mutual experience. It's just so nice to have some face
Speaker 2: to face time with you after that year that's just
Speaker 2: been Yeah, I know, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's been over a year now, Like,
Speaker 1: is that not just wild to think this time? You know,
Speaker 1: last year we were in the trenches and then yeah.
Speaker 2: I had that realization on the weekend I was like
Speaker 2: a year ago today, my little girl was two months old.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I don't even know, like if
Speaker 2: I was, I just want to give that version to
Speaker 2: me the biggest hug and be like, I promise it
Speaker 2: will be okay, because I remember at that stage I
Speaker 2: was like have I what have I done?
Speaker 1: Like what I.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be able to get through this.
Speaker 2: So it was it was not an enjoyable time for me.
Speaker 2: So how nice to be on the other side of that.
Speaker 1: I know, I feel the exact same way, Like I
Speaker 1: look back at memories, you know, how your phone pops
Speaker 1: up this time last year sort of things, and I
Speaker 1: look back and I was like, yeah, I wish I
Speaker 1: could just tell that Georgie of like it's okay and breathe,
Speaker 1: embrace the chaos, like you're going to get through this.
Speaker 1: And I think also during that time, like it does
Speaker 1: feel very bleak in the way of it's so it's
Speaker 1: so all encompassing and so opposite to how you just
Speaker 1: lived your life, and it's so soon and it's like
Speaker 1: a shock to the body. And I go back and
Speaker 1: hug her and be like, it's okay, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: amazing and it just gets better.
Speaker 2: It just gets better every day, especially this stage I'm
Speaker 2: finding and I know we're just chatting about that. It's
Speaker 2: like I'm looking at her outside now and she's toddling
Speaker 2: around and taking in the world, and to see the
Speaker 2: developmental changes and to be a part of that just
Speaker 2: feels like biggest privileged. So it's very nice to be
Speaker 2: on the other end of that, that newborn those newborn days,
Speaker 2: for sure, I know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, if anyone, if you're listening to this and
Speaker 1: you're going through something similar, just know, yeah, it gets
Speaker 1: better and you're literally doing amazing at whatever capacity you're doing.
Speaker 1: But let's get into the book. I I just I
Speaker 1: loved this book so much. I felt like you were
Speaker 1: calling me out personally.
Speaker 3: It was like I feel lastly attacked, but in a
Speaker 3: great way where I was like, this is so good.
Speaker 1: I'm having to look at myself and I truly believe
Speaker 1: the best pieces of you know, reading content for me
Speaker 1: is thought provoking around like, yeah, let's actually unpack this
Speaker 1: and look at this. So first of all, I would
Speaker 1: love for you to, you know, talk to my community
Speaker 1: just a bit about how as a type a high achiever,
Speaker 1: you know, you made this change from you know, a
Speaker 1: high paying, queste unquote successful corporate job to what actually
Speaker 1: fulfilled you and what that journey looked like, because I
Speaker 1: very much resonate with the high achiever and being in
Speaker 1: that realm and completely shifting it. And I just think
Speaker 1: it's your journey is so incredible.
Speaker 2: Thanks Gal, Yeah, look for me. It's such an interesting
Speaker 2: one because all of it has been self imposed. I
Speaker 2: didn't come from a family of parents who were like,
Speaker 2: you must work a corporate job and you know, go
Speaker 2: and study after you after school. That was all me.
Speaker 2: And initially I have a journalism degree, so I thought
Speaker 2: I'd end up in print publications, but it was around
Speaker 2: the time that print was dwindling away, and so what
Speaker 2: ended up happening was I took the first job that
Speaker 2: the twenty one year old version of me thought was
Speaker 2: a real job, quote unquote, which was just so honestly,
Speaker 2: it was like I was blindfolded and I was like
Speaker 2: that one, and I ended up in strategic marketing. Had
Speaker 2: never studied marketing my life, had never studied bizz, studied
Speaker 2: business strategy in my life. Was like I can wing this,
Speaker 2: and five years into it, probably three years into it
Speaker 2: to be honest, my soul was like, what are you doing, Holly?
Speaker 2: Like this is not you. You're sitting at a partition desk.
Speaker 2: You are. I was becoming really unwell physically and mentally.
Speaker 2: It was just everything was pulling away in terms of
Speaker 2: my physical health and my mental health. I was so unhappy.
Speaker 2: I ended up crying every day on the bus into
Speaker 2: my job and back. And yet I didn't do anything
Speaker 2: to change because I was telling myself, you know, who
Speaker 2: am I to have a different life? Like what makes
Speaker 2: me special? And I didn't even know what I wanted.
Speaker 2: I knew, I knew I wanted to write a book
Speaker 2: one day, but I didn't know how I would get there.
Speaker 2: And even I guess I didn't see the value or
Speaker 2: worth in me and what I had to share. And
Speaker 2: so it really took me smacking my face on bottom,
Speaker 2: as you read about in the book for me to
Speaker 2: wake up and go, I can't continue to live like
Speaker 2: this because I literally just won't be able to continue
Speaker 2: in this way. And from there it was like a
Speaker 2: massive redirection into well, what actually makes me feel good?
Speaker 2: And what are the things that light me up and
Speaker 2: what brings me join my life? And that doesn't need
Speaker 2: to make me money right away. I ended up moving
Speaker 2: back in with my in laws at the time, and
Speaker 2: you know, to save money on rent, and I went
Speaker 2: back into retail, which was.
Speaker 4: Like shattering to the ego after my degree and five
Speaker 4: years working with ASX listed companies and then there I
Speaker 4: am in my local shopping center with people from school walking.
Speaker 2: Past, and I'm like, I swear I'm going to make
Speaker 2: something of myself one day.
Speaker 1: You just wait.
Speaker 2: But it really was a mass crumbling away of everything
Speaker 2: I thought I should have achieved in my life to okay, no,
Speaker 2: what actually feels good and then rebuilding my life from
Speaker 2: that place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so incredible. And isn't it so interesting that you
Speaker 1: often have to get to that you know, rock bottom
Speaker 1: and that pinnacle point to go to.
Speaker 3: My actually doing here and yeah, yeah, like what It's
Speaker 3: really funny about the picking the job because I was
Speaker 3: much the same, like I just randomly picked things, and
Speaker 3: it was it's very much the energy of just like
Speaker 3: whoever will have me.
Speaker 1: Take what I can get, exactly take what I can get,
Speaker 1: and then you, yeah, get in it and you're like, oh, no, wow,
Speaker 1: I really need to yeh, actually be deciding what I
Speaker 1: want to do. I love in the book that you
Speaker 1: really talk about, you know, values, and I'm sure that's
Speaker 1: something that is really strong for you now, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure at some point it wasn't. I would love for
Speaker 1: you to just give some insight of you know, how
Speaker 1: you have reframed your values and I guess even just
Speaker 1: decided on what are integral to you in your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think what it took was me having
Speaker 2: everything fall away to be forced to face, Okay, well
Speaker 2: what how do I want my life to look? Do
Speaker 2: I want it to feel? And it wasn't necessarily sitting
Speaker 2: down and doing a values based exercise like you'll find
Speaker 2: in the book. It was more. I remember I was
Speaker 2: still working my corporate job, but I took my journal
Speaker 2: out and this was totally like channeled, unprompted. I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to write my dream day and I'm
Speaker 2: just going to be as specific as possible with no
Speaker 2: job title in my mind. I'm literally going to write.
Speaker 2: I wrote things like I can sleep until I wake
Speaker 2: comfortably and I start my day with yoga by the beach,
Speaker 2: you know, as an example, or I could I remember
Speaker 2: I was where I wrote I can wear my spell
Speaker 2: jumpsuit for the day, like not corporate, like that was
Speaker 2: like a pinnacle thing.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: My day was spent reading and writing and creating. I
Speaker 2: just wrote all of these things down without knowing what
Speaker 2: it would look like, and within two years I could
Speaker 2: tick every single one of those things off in the
Speaker 2: life I had created for myself. So when it came
Speaker 2: to the values, the first thing I had to focus
Speaker 2: on were the feelings that I was seeking in my life.
Speaker 2: And with everything I had listed, there were feelings like
Speaker 2: freedom and flexibility in my days, and rest and well
Speaker 2: being and nourishment and connection with my now husband, he
Speaker 2: was my boyfriend at the time, and so there were
Speaker 2: these threads that I was starting to pull out, and
Speaker 2: they were beginning to make this tapestry that now only
Speaker 2: you know. I wrote that list probably eight years ago,
Speaker 2: and two years into it I could tick them all off,
Speaker 2: and now I'm just constantly adding to this tapestry that
Speaker 2: is my life. So yes, I could rally off my
Speaker 2: five values, which I love, kindness, spirituality, well being, and connection,
Speaker 2: but it's also so much more than that. There's a
Speaker 2: nuance between it all, which is how do I feel
Speaker 2: each day? And I'm if I'm pursuing the feelings that
Speaker 2: make me feel good for the most part, then I'm
Speaker 2: happy with how I'm living my days.
Speaker 1: I love that so much because often you know, when
Speaker 1: you do say you know, you've got to live up
Speaker 1: to your values. Some people can be like it's like
Speaker 1: it almost sounds like a bit mundane. But if you
Speaker 1: talk about in the way of like, what are the
Speaker 1: themes you want in your life? Like, I love how
Speaker 1: you spoke about that. And it's really funny because much
Speaker 1: the same as you of when I was working my
Speaker 1: corporate law job and I would be on the bus,
Speaker 1: That's when I used to journal, and I would journal
Speaker 1: like my perfect today, and that's what I would do.
Speaker 1: And again I had like there was no actual job
Speaker 1: in it. But it's just like I would have these
Speaker 1: themes of freedom, flexibility, yeah, well being like all so
Speaker 1: much the same that I love it. It's so incredible
Speaker 1: mirrors our mirrors. I love that so much. I also
Speaker 1: something I loved the book because I feel like it
Speaker 1: was something running in my head and you just define
Speaker 1: it so well. So the concept of martyrdom, which is
Speaker 1: often you know when women they have to, you know,
Speaker 1: fall in the trap of doing everything for everyone, and
Speaker 1: I feel like I had this in my head and
Speaker 1: then I read in the book. I was like, there's
Speaker 1: an actual term. This is amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, martyrdom is huge and you know what it's
Speaker 2: so it was uncomfortable for me to read back as
Speaker 2: a new mother who was in the trenches of martyrdom,
Speaker 2: because I like the pre motherhood version of me was
Speaker 2: calling myself out. And I tell you what, there was
Speaker 2: actually this really awkward phase where I was editing the book,
Speaker 2: going okay, but this isn't talking about new mums, because
Speaker 2: that's all well and good for you to say, childless Holly.
Speaker 2: But you know, I fully triggered myself. But then I
Speaker 2: sat with it and I went, no, actually, there's so
Speaker 2: much validity in it. Why do we need to repeat
Speaker 2: the patterns of you know, our mothers and their mothers
Speaker 2: of this, you know, almost victim mind set around the
Speaker 2: world is on the way to the world is on
Speaker 2: my shoulders and no one can help me. And that's
Speaker 2: what I feel is the basis for martyrdom is not
Speaker 2: accepting help and not asking for help. And it's something
Speaker 2: that's really humbling, especially when you transition into something like motherhood,
Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to be motherhood. It could be
Speaker 2: any life transition where you realize you actually don't have
Speaker 2: to do it on your own and you can ask
Speaker 2: for help. And what role are you playing in creating
Speaker 2: that martyrdom complex where you're not asking for help and
Speaker 2: you're feeling like you have to do it all on
Speaker 2: your own. And that was where I had to lovingly
Speaker 2: call myself into Holly, where do you actually need help
Speaker 2: right now? And you know that's in a multitude of ways.
Speaker 2: That could be more kinesiology sessions or sitting down with
Speaker 2: a talk therapist, or that could literally me my mom
Speaker 2: doesn't live close but ringing her and saying, Mom, I
Speaker 2: need you to come up for two weeks because I'm
Speaker 2: struggling at the moment.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So that when we're living from a place of martyrdom,
Speaker 2: that's when we're more inclined to put other people before
Speaker 2: ourselves because already we're running on empty, we're not choosing ourselves.
Speaker 2: When we're asking for help and accepting help, we're going
Speaker 2: to feel more nourished and more overflowing, so that then
Speaker 2: we can give to others from a place of yeah
Speaker 2: fulfilm in and overflow and also know when to say no, Actually,
Speaker 2: I've got enough on my plate right now, and I'm
Speaker 2: looking after me.
Speaker 1: I love it so much. And I was actually having
Speaker 1: a conversation with my girlfriend on the weekend, and you know,
Speaker 1: she was saying how she really wanted some more help
Speaker 1: with her girls and so sad her mom, you know,
Speaker 1: passed away when she was a teenager. So that was
Speaker 1: atn Avenue. But her partner's mom didn't really offer too much.
Speaker 1: And that's what I said to her. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: you've got to ask, and like, you know, because I
Speaker 1: think she had asked a couple of times and she
Speaker 1: was busy, and I'm like, yeah, you've got to keep
Speaker 1: asking or You've got to then be like all right,
Speaker 1: well then are you free you know this day and
Speaker 1: really just like plug it in and take that. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to use the word like responsibility of I
Speaker 1: do need help and I am going to ask. And
Speaker 1: then after our conversation, afters we you know, w always
Speaker 1: reflect and have some takeaways and she's like, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I am going to ask for more help because like
Speaker 1: I'm not going to keep sitting in this. Yeah, very
Speaker 1: victim of poor me and then I'm so stressed, and
Speaker 1: then I get angry at my husband and this and
Speaker 1: this and this.
Speaker 2: Sousa, Yeah, exactly right, exactly, And we've got to almost
Speaker 2: like eradicate this burden mentality we have around asking for help,
Speaker 2: because you know what, when there's someone in my life
Speaker 2: that comes to me and asks for help, when I'm
Speaker 2: feeling fulfilled in my life, of course, like I want
Speaker 2: to help my friends, I want to help my family.
Speaker 2: Like it's not like I'm going to go absolutely not
Speaker 2: like I'm never going to be available to help. People
Speaker 2: for the most part want to. But we're not mind readers.
Speaker 2: And I think that that's where a lot of the
Speaker 2: kind people please a complex can come in, where we
Speaker 2: expect people to know what we need and know what
Speaker 2: we want, but we haven't actually claimed it. So we're
Speaker 2: just expecting them to know because it's what we're experiencing.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the time people are so preoccupied
Speaker 2: with their own lives they forget, We forget to check in,
Speaker 2: we forget to follow up, we forget to ask if
Speaker 2: you need to help. We've got to take that initial start.
Speaker 1: And it's funny. Just one more point on that, I
Speaker 1: was having another conversation with a girlfriend and again you know,
Speaker 1: in the motherhood realm, and she was saying, she's got
Speaker 1: over a beautiful eight month old, so she you know,
Speaker 1: she's still kind of in those trenches. And she was
Speaker 1: just going through a bit of a phase where she
Speaker 1: felt like she had no her time, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was kind of she was kind of saying, oh,
Speaker 1: but she wished her partner gave her, I guess more
Speaker 1: permission and was like, you should go to the gym,
Speaker 1: you should do this. And I kind of turned around
Speaker 1: and gave her some like, you know, really beautiful tough love,
Speaker 1: and I said, why does he have to say that
Speaker 1: to you, Like he he's probably dealing with new fatherhood,
Speaker 1: like he's in his own mind so you know, wrapped
Speaker 1: up and it's not me taking sights or anything. But
Speaker 1: I was like, you need to advocate for yourself and
Speaker 1: take away this guilt of because I said, I used
Speaker 1: to feel it too. And I had the exact same
Speaker 1: thoughts with Tim where I was, you know, work back
Speaker 1: working full time doing IVY when I got home and
Speaker 1: then I had you know, no weekends and no time
Speaker 1: for myself, and then I wanted him to be like
Speaker 1: maybe you should go and do this. And then it
Speaker 1: wasn't until I took the step and was like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I need to do this to myself and I don't
Speaker 1: need him to give me permission, and I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: ask him. And then it felt like a weight lifted
Speaker 1: off both our shoulders.
Speaker 2: Because you're also then giving tim and like for me
Speaker 2: with Trent, it's the same when we choose ourselves, we're
Speaker 2: giving them permission to choose themselves. So it actually took
Speaker 2: Trent a long time to follow suit. I've been pretty
Speaker 2: good in saying I need my time and this is
Speaker 2: how it's going to look for me. But for Trenny,
Speaker 2: he was really taking it on as his responsibility was
Speaker 2: to just be on it in dad mode or work
Speaker 2: mode all the time. And he got to breaking point
Speaker 2: and I said, you've got to choose you. I can't
Speaker 2: choose you for you, but I don't want happening. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want you to choose you because you're you're the
Speaker 2: better version of yourself when you do, and we all benefit.
Speaker 2: So it's been in necessary shift and a really powerful
Speaker 2: one in our family dynamic to see as well.
Speaker 1: M I love that and yeah, I just the whole
Speaker 1: thing of like not giving someone else your power, of
Speaker 1: them having to give you permission was a huge shift
Speaker 1: for me. And once she realized that too, she was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't believe I was doing that.
Speaker 2: So just take your power back. It's the most liberating feeling.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: And then also a part I loved in your book.
Speaker 1: I just i'd never like unpacked it this way, but
Speaker 1: you spoke about selfish stories and like reframing what selfish
Speaker 1: means to us. Can you share on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I pulled the actual dictionary meaning of selfishness
Speaker 2: and capture that in the b And because a big
Speaker 2: objection that I see when it comes to, you know,
Speaker 2: choosing yourself and putting yourself first, is well, that makes
Speaker 2: me selfish. And it's like, okay, well let's unpack what
Speaker 2: selfishness actually means. I'm big on words and their meaning
Speaker 2: because words shape lives. Like we use our words, that
Speaker 2: creates our reality. And so the definition of selfish alludes
Speaker 2: to at the cost of someone else, like with ill intent,
Speaker 2: with malice. So you're doing something and you're going out
Speaker 2: of your way to basically mess with another person when
Speaker 2: you're choosing yourself you know, when you're saying no, I
Speaker 2: can't help because my cup isn't I need to fill
Speaker 2: myself up, that's actually not selfishness.
Speaker 1: It's not you're not doing that to.
Speaker 2: Hurt another person. Although it might make other people uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: that's not your intent. You're choosing you for you. And
Speaker 2: I think when we start to unravel from these stories
Speaker 2: and these objections and actually look at them plain as day.
Speaker 2: There are a few of them in the book, I
Speaker 2: speak about using the word mpath as almost like escape
Speaker 2: goat to your people pleasing behaviors. It's like, no, let's
Speaker 2: look at what these words actually mean and call ourselves
Speaker 2: out on misusing them. So you're putting yourself first. Doesn't
Speaker 2: define you as selfish unless you're putting yourself first to
Speaker 2: upset other people, which just won't happen. It's just not
Speaker 2: unless you're crazy, Like it's just not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Where's you're a psychopath? I loved this so much, and
Speaker 1: again it was like so liberating, and I think it
Speaker 1: is so important to really check in with the language
Speaker 1: we're using. So I love that you touched on that,
Speaker 1: and even again, like I went through this weird stage
Speaker 1: where I felt like I couldn't do anything for myself
Speaker 1: on the weekends, and I felt really selfish because you know,
Speaker 1: I worked during the week and then the weekends was
Speaker 1: for Ivy. But if I did something for myself up,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, but it's selfish. And literally that
Speaker 1: part of the book completely called me out, and I
Speaker 1: was like, there is no me going to get a
Speaker 1: massage on Sunday. There's no ill attent intent. Sorry, and
Speaker 1: like Ivy's at home with Tim, her you know, favorite person,
Speaker 1: So there's there's nothing but luck here, Like why would
Speaker 1: I do that? And then be you know, resentful, be
Speaker 1: like I've got no time, or feel really like low
Speaker 1: in myself, And it's yeah, giving yourself that permission, being like, no,
Speaker 1: that's not even in my vocab, it's not even in
Speaker 1: my voecab.
Speaker 2: And it's it's just an opportunity to redefine what you
Speaker 2: make words mean versus what they actually mean, which is huge.
Speaker 2: And yeah, Ivy's probably having the best time ever and
Speaker 2: doesn't even realize, like I know, my little girl's the
Speaker 2: same thing. Doesn't even care when I leave and I
Speaker 2: come back and I'm more present with her. She's got
Speaker 2: the flame player outside, but that's okay. Dad's with her
Speaker 2: like carrying out.
Speaker 1: There, right.
Speaker 2: No, I am more present with her when I've gone
Speaker 2: for the massage, when I've sat in the tea ceremony,
Speaker 2: when I've sat with my journal, and everyone benefits. I'm
Speaker 2: nicer to Trent, I'm nicer to our dogs. Like everyone
Speaker 2: wins include.
Speaker 1: Me, you know, so important. That was just like that
Speaker 1: was a huge moment for me in the book, and
Speaker 1: since then, it's actually funny, I've been really auditing like
Speaker 1: my language and how I speak, with my internal dialogue
Speaker 1: because it's not like I was going around calling myself selfish.
Speaker 1: It was internal. But yeah, once I actually checked, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, that's no, we're not doing this right.
Speaker 2: And then if we're if we are doing that, then
Speaker 2: we're also and I touch on this in the book,
Speaker 2: the lowest vibrations, right that we can emulate our shame
Speaker 2: and guilt. So we're calling ourselves selfish, we're feeling shameful
Speaker 2: about that, and we're feeling guilty, and so they are
Speaker 2: the vibrations we're carrying around day to day, week to week,
Speaker 2: month to month. No wonder we feel tired, No wonder
Speaker 2: we feel resemble no wonder we think the world's out
Speaker 2: to get us, because that is what we're perpetuating in
Speaker 2: our lives. And it doesn't mean that we don't have
Speaker 2: those moments. We're human. But exactly what you're doing, Georgie,
Speaker 2: you're catching yourself in those moments now and going, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm choosing something else, even in the discomfort of that,
Speaker 2: knowing the ripple effects that will have on you and
Speaker 2: your family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just yeah, I love that you said that,
Speaker 1: because I do want to completely promise that with saying
Speaker 1: I still get those moments and I still you know,
Speaker 1: feel those feelings, but then in that moment, I'm going, oh,
Speaker 1: I know what's happening here, awareness, and I'm choosing a
Speaker 1: new story, And yeah, I'm not staying in that frequency
Speaker 1: exactly right.
Speaker 2: And I even say this at the end of the book.
Speaker 2: It's like, I still relate to being a people pleaser,
Speaker 2: not as anywhere near as much as I used to,
Speaker 2: by the way, But it's not something that goes away entirely.
Speaker 2: It's just something we're constantly working toward. And awareness is key.
Speaker 2: If we can catch ourselves out more frequently in the
Speaker 2: ingrained behaviors and the societal expectations that are placed on
Speaker 2: us and choose ourselves anyway. Then we'll find that those
Speaker 2: choices are going to be less intense and less parder
Speaker 2: for our nervous system to handle. They'll become more easeful.
Speaker 1: Huge moment. I would love to talk about again something
Speaker 1: that you know, you call in the book energetic hytiene
Speaker 1: and how we can really identify like energetic exhaustion and
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, because again I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is such an amazing concept where where you understand it,
Speaker 1: you're able to navigate this.
Speaker 2: Yes, so, and this is why you know, it's a
Speaker 2: book on people pleasing, but there's a chapter on energy
Speaker 2: and there's a chapter on intuition because it's so part
Speaker 2: of it. And energy for me is well for everyone,
Speaker 2: it's everything firstly, But when it comes to people pleasing behaviors,
Speaker 2: if we are acting from a place of disconnect with
Speaker 2: our own energetic well being and our relationship with our
Speaker 2: energy center, then we are more inclined to choose other
Speaker 2: people before ourselves because what we're saying in those choices is, well,
Speaker 2: what you need from me is more important than what
Speaker 2: I need from me. So it's really key that we
Speaker 2: get clear on when we're doing that, and we get
Speaker 2: clear on that by deciphering when our energy is running low.
Speaker 2: And I take you through a process in the book
Speaker 2: where you can start to get clear on what your
Speaker 2: energetic yes is and what your energetic no is, and
Speaker 2: when you're acting from that place of no, you're more
Speaker 2: likely to feel a spiral in your energetic well being.
Speaker 2: And I go through you know, all sorts of symptoms
Speaker 2: and ways that this can show up for me personally.
Speaker 2: If I've said yes to I don't know, a catch
Speaker 2: up with someone that I know actually really drains my energy.
Speaker 2: Hello people, pleaser, I know that I'll start to feel
Speaker 2: like more lethargic in my body. My limbs will feel heavy,
Speaker 2: I'll probably get a niggle in my throat. My body's
Speaker 2: sending me all the signs that's off I am. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm probably talking faster than I usually do. I'm less grounded.
Speaker 2: And once you become aware of those things, you can identify, Okay,
Speaker 2: my energy is way off in this decision. Let's use
Speaker 2: some energetic hygiene techniques to get back into a place
Speaker 2: of clear energy so that I'm making choices from that
Speaker 2: place it's honestly such a game changer, Georgie, not just
Speaker 2: when it comes to putting yourself first and people pleasing,
Speaker 2: but literally to how you live your life. If you
Speaker 2: have a deep knowing of your energetic well being and
Speaker 2: how to bring yourself into energetic alignment, everything shifts like
Speaker 2: game changer.
Speaker 1: And like, could you give us an example of like
Speaker 1: a tactic you will do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so something that and I run through these in
Speaker 2: the book as well. I'm big on support from energetic practitioners,
Speaker 2: so it's not just me. I do know how to
Speaker 2: do things like self muscle testing, which is what kinesiologists use,
Speaker 2: and I can clear myself, but I actually prefer to
Speaker 2: book in for a reiki session see a kinesiologist. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got all the mists, I've got the smoking tools
Speaker 2: and eldging tools. I meditate every day. All of those
Speaker 2: are my foundational tools for energetic alignment, like my non negotiables,
Speaker 2: definitely metation, definitely some sort of sprits and missed. But
Speaker 2: getting that additional support from practitioners outside of just me
Speaker 2: has been paramount when it comes to my own energetic
Speaker 2: hygiene and how I look after myself in that way.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. I've actually recently been getting
Speaker 1: a weekly massage which she always finishes with some energy
Speaker 1: healing and life changing life Jay. It was like, how
Speaker 1: have I never done this before? And it's so incredible.
Speaker 1: I always leave like a lighter, amazing, just feeling so good,
Speaker 1: just going back on like the energetic hygiene. I love
Speaker 1: this so much because I had this huge aha moment
Speaker 1: last year where like a key thing that happened last
Speaker 1: year was because I knew and I'm a control break.
Speaker 1: I knew like most people listening to this podcast, because
Speaker 1: I knew how you know the year was going to
Speaker 1: go in regards to not knowing because I was a
Speaker 1: new mum. I then went and planned all these work
Speaker 1: things so I could know exactly what was going to
Speaker 1: happen in work. So reflecting it was my way of
Speaker 1: coping with not knowing how motherhood was going to go,
Speaker 1: because at least I knew how my work year was
Speaker 1: going to go.
Speaker 2: If that makes sense death, it does.
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize this until the end of last year,
Speaker 1: but then something happened towards you and I realized this
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, next year's going to be different.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to book things in I need to
Speaker 1: surrender more. It's not a vibe. And then one last
Speaker 1: thing happened where I said yes to and you know,
Speaker 1: a situation that I really did not want to but
Speaker 1: it was a people pleasing, loved this person sort of situation.
Speaker 1: Even saying it, I knew energetically it was like it
Speaker 1: was screaming no, and then I said yes, I still went.
Speaker 1: And I remember that day no joke.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: Was a basket case to be you know, like energetically,
Speaker 1: I remember waking up and just crying to Tim and
Speaker 1: feeling so angry at myself, so drained, so defeated, so
Speaker 1: not integral with who I was, and just completely like
Speaker 1: my body was just screaming at me like how you
Speaker 1: wow totally And that's when I was like, no, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three is the year of And I told, you know,
Speaker 1: my team, I told everyone, if it's not a hell yes,
Speaker 1: it's no, like we're not doing that because I could
Speaker 1: just feel like such a lag of all the things
Speaker 1: that I said yes to when I did not check
Speaker 1: in with myself, and yeah, it was it was this
Speaker 1: overwhelming feeling like I everyone was against me and the
Speaker 1: world was so heavy in all these things, and as
Speaker 1: soon as I like left that in last year, this
Speaker 1: year has just felt so different and just so high.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly. Well it's that culmination of say, like
Speaker 2: your shoulds versus your wants, which I talk about oh
Speaker 2: I should do that versus I really want to do that,
Speaker 2: and then your life force is just completely sapped and
Speaker 2: every time you're saying yes when you want to be
Speaker 2: saying no, there's there goes more of your life force
Speaker 2: until exactly what happened to you happen where you've just
Speaker 2: got nothing left to give and you're forced to pick
Speaker 2: up your pieces again. So yeah, I'm glad it's feeling
Speaker 2: light for you this year, and definitely the same thing
Speaker 2: for me happened, and I'm this year feels so different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you need those moments to be like oh
Speaker 1: wait home, Yeah exactly, I remember again home, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: back and again. Well, let's let's switch gears and really
Speaker 1: get into like I feel like everyone who is a
Speaker 1: people pleaser, this is a huge and probably the most
Speaker 1: important thing. Let's talk boundaries.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, how do we create boundaries?
Speaker 1: How do we stick to them?
Speaker 2: Tell us? Oh my gosh, it is the hardest pieces.
Speaker 2: Why it's the last chapter in the book, and do
Speaker 2: you know what's really hectic. I don't know if you've
Speaker 2: spoken to anyone else who's written book like in this way.
Speaker 2: But what happens is the book initiates you. So you
Speaker 2: can't just write the thing in the book and then
Speaker 2: be like, I don't need to do that because you
Speaker 2: know whatever, I'll just teach it. The book goes, oh,
Speaker 2: you're talking about boundaries, Well, let's start to bring some
Speaker 2: experiences into your life where you have to put what
Speaker 2: you wrote into practice. So last year for me, it
Speaker 2: was like solid boundary overload. I feel like I've graduated
Speaker 2: boundary school for behaviors. But one analogy that I use
Speaker 2: in the book, and it's a really good one, is
Speaker 2: the analogy around the keys to your home. And so
Speaker 2: if you consider your energy and access to your energy
Speaker 2: as if it were your home, you are not going
Speaker 2: to go around and give every single person that you
Speaker 2: meet in your life a key to the front door.
Speaker 2: It's crazy and ludicrous and unsafe. So the same goes
Speaker 2: for access to you and your time and your energy,
Speaker 2: your friendship, whatever that thing is. To assert boundaries first
Speaker 2: you've got to get clear on who has access to
Speaker 2: all of you and who doesn't. And it's kind of
Speaker 2: like a phasing out, and there's a tiered phase that
Speaker 2: can happen where you know there are going to be
Speaker 2: people in your life that have access to parts of
Speaker 2: your life, but not all of them. There are going
Speaker 2: to be people in your life that don't have access
Speaker 2: to any of those parts, and boundaries for me are
Speaker 2: now around where do those access points come in and
Speaker 2: how do I lovingly create very clear understanding with people
Speaker 2: in my life what they do and don't have access to.
Speaker 2: So some examples are, you know, I have an out
Speaker 2: of office on my email that shares all of the
Speaker 2: ways that people can get in touch with me, but
Speaker 2: also that I am a stay at home mum as well,
Speaker 2: and so they're not going to get a twenty four
Speaker 2: hour response time for me. Like, hyper availability is a
Speaker 2: huge overriding of boundaries. If we're constantly in our DMS
Speaker 2: replying to every message that comes through. Whether you have
Speaker 2: a big community or not, it could just be your
Speaker 2: friends in the WhatsApp group. If we're hyper available and
Speaker 2: picking our phone up every second something's coming through, we're
Speaker 2: not creating boundaries around our accessibility and so I mean,
Speaker 2: there's incredible functions on our phones that are like the
Speaker 2: focus mode and do not disturb in all of those things,
Speaker 2: but even down to really clearly expressing to people in
Speaker 2: our lives. There are some examples in the book, like
Speaker 2: a friend contacting me and saying, do you have the
Speaker 2: bandwidth for an emotional vent right now? And if you don't,
Speaker 2: saying no, like it's literally ugly, No, I actually don't,
Speaker 2: but I'll call you at a time that feels good
Speaker 2: house next week. You know, I'm also really good And no,
Speaker 2: everyone's not going to agree with this, but I flag
Speaker 2: phone calls like my dad could be calling me, and
Speaker 2: I'll look at it and go, I just don't have
Speaker 2: the capacity for that call right now. I'll send them
Speaker 2: a text and give him a call back in a
Speaker 2: day or two. You know, it's and everyone's boundaries are
Speaker 2: going to be different. The first point is getting clear
Speaker 2: on what feels good for you and then actually communicating it,
Speaker 2: which is the hardest piece when it comes to you know,
Speaker 2: there are going to be some potentially challenging conversations when
Speaker 2: you're showing up with someone in a new way and saying,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm actually not available for that. If they're
Speaker 2: used to your hyper availability, there's going to be a
Speaker 2: tension point. But that's where changes create it. And there's
Speaker 2: that quote. What is it. It's something like, the people
Speaker 2: who aren't appreciative of your new boundaries are the people
Speaker 2: that were taking advantage of them in the first place.
Speaker 2: So for the most part, in the implementation of these
Speaker 2: new boundaries in my life, I haven't actually lost any
Speaker 2: friends or family or loved ones. Mostly everyone's gone, oh cool,
Speaker 2: I'm going to start to implement these in my life
Speaker 2: as well. So it's a case of being the example
Speaker 2: a bit too.
Speaker 1: I love it so much, and I think it was
Speaker 1: really beautiful for me to read that in the book,
Speaker 1: because like even that word of like accessibility, I think
Speaker 1: is sometimes you just you don't think about it. And
Speaker 1: it's funny because I used to have some weird feelings
Speaker 1: around the fact that I, you know, I was that
Speaker 1: friend who wouldn't get back to you for a couple
Speaker 1: of days, or I would screen my parents' calls or like,
Speaker 1: you know, different stuff like that, and it was I
Speaker 1: kind of wore a bit of you know, shame around
Speaker 1: that because it was I was so busy, but I
Speaker 1: was also really good with my boundaries of this is
Speaker 1: actually not you know what I can do right now,
Speaker 1: so I'll take you back in a couple of days.
Speaker 1: No one was really you know, I guess modeling that
Speaker 1: for me. So it always felt like, you know, I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, a bitch, or I'm too important
Speaker 1: for them, or like you know, these weird things that
Speaker 1: I would then have to you know, reshape it in
Speaker 1: my mind. So you know, when I was reading this chapter,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is you know,
Speaker 1: I've I've been doing this for quite a while, and
Speaker 1: I think so many people can benefit in not being
Speaker 1: accessible all the time. Like it's impossible, you say that, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is no wonder.
Speaker 2: We're all burned out and on like magnesium supplements through
Speaker 2: the roof because we're just not We're not How can
Speaker 2: we possibly wind down if we're constantly available. It's just
Speaker 2: impossible to keep up with Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's even like I have this new thing
Speaker 1: that I'm doing on my emails where I look at
Speaker 1: my emails for an hour max, you know, every day
Speaker 1: or every day or two, and it's a designated spot
Speaker 1: in my calendar and I go through, I flag I FAWD,
Speaker 1: and then that's it. I'm not checking my emails. Like
Speaker 1: just because you sent me an email, a text or
Speaker 1: call me because you know you want something or you
Speaker 1: know whatever, that doesn't mean yeah, I'm available. And I
Speaker 1: think when you put those boundaries in and you stick
Speaker 1: to them, it feels really good because a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, too, I realize how much time I was wasting,
Speaker 1: you know, just checking emails or deleting emails or doing
Speaker 1: these things where I was making myself accessible and almost
Speaker 1: like you know, a slave to my inbox, where I
Speaker 1: was like, this actually is not productive or important and
Speaker 1: I don't have to be available twenty four hours exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think the discomfort also comes from the fact
Speaker 2: that it's societally expected for us to be in this
Speaker 2: backlog of emails and to be constantly available, and because
Speaker 2: that's how the majority live. I remember there was a
Speaker 2: little instamm doing the rounds last year that was around
Speaker 2: someone's out of office that was like, I only access
Speaker 2: my emails between these times. And it can almost have
Speaker 2: that eye roll effect where people are like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: nice for some, but it's like, but what would it
Speaker 2: be like if that was actually something that you could
Speaker 2: start to implement, how would that change your day? How
Speaker 2: would that change your nervous system? And what example is
Speaker 2: that setting for the people receiving that as a result,
Speaker 2: And it's only going to be positive. We're going to
Speaker 2: be more present as well. That's the other thing. Like
Speaker 2: my people in my life know if I've answered their call,
Speaker 2: they're getting all of me. They're not getting a destructive may,
Speaker 2: not getting a me quickly squeezing it in. It's like
Speaker 2: Holly's here because she's got the energy in the time
Speaker 2: to have this conversation. And what a nice example to
Speaker 2: set for the people in your life to know that
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: I was having a convo with my girlfriend because she's like,
Speaker 1: She's like, it's so weird because you only ever text
Speaker 1: me late at night. But then like I see you
Speaker 1: on social media all day, like are you ignoring me
Speaker 1: through the day? And I was like, oh no, My
Speaker 1: assistant posts my social media posts during the day that
Speaker 1: I have prepared earlier, and then I on you look
Speaker 1: at my personal text messages at night because that's when
Speaker 1: I actually have time for you. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: look at your beautiful personal message during the day between meetings,
Speaker 1: get distracted and not give you my energy. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: wait for a time where I actually can give you
Speaker 1: that love and energy that you deserve. So that's why
Speaker 1: I text you late at night, like it's you know,
Speaker 1: what you see on social media is not necessarily your accessibility,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. It's you choosing when you are focused
Speaker 2: and present. And I mean, gal, there are days weeks
Speaker 2: that I go by not replying to a friend, and
Speaker 2: it is around this. It's a reconstruction of that high
Speaker 2: per availability concept because we're all burning ourselves out with
Speaker 2: this expectation. And I know, on the receiving end, if
Speaker 2: it takes a friend for the most part, you know,
Speaker 2: give or take. If it takes a friend a few
Speaker 2: days to reply, I'm not batting an eyelid because I've
Speaker 2: got life going on anyway, you know. So yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like I've got things. Oh cool, you forgot to reply.
Speaker 2: That's fine, it's all good. And if we can start
Speaker 2: to develop that in our friendships more, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: the pressure, but it will alleviate. My favorite friendships are
Speaker 2: the ones where it's like, oh, it's been a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks, it's like, oh, it's all good. Life happens,
Speaker 2: you know, no expectation. It feels like it's just a
Speaker 2: settling in the nervous system when you're not showing up
Speaker 2: for that place of expectation and urgency as opposed to
Speaker 2: when you have the space to be fully present and
Speaker 2: with them. Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1: And then even going back to you know, people pleasing
Speaker 1: and their boundaries of even me and my best friend
Speaker 1: were chatting about last year, we probably only saw each
Speaker 1: other maybe three times in the whole year where it
Speaker 1: was a one on one situation, and that was because
Speaker 1: you know, it's that friendship where it is very deep
Speaker 1: and it is very you know connecting, and if I
Speaker 1: did not have the capacity for it, I would just
Speaker 1: be like, look, I just need it. And I also
Speaker 1: know my energy gets recharged by myself, so I'd be like, look,
Speaker 1: I just need some time by myself. Let's rain check.
Speaker 1: And she had no worries with that. And it's not
Speaker 1: like we felt like our friendship you know, wasn't strong.
Speaker 1: It was stronger than ever. But it's like those three
Speaker 1: days were so you know, impactful, and we were so
Speaker 1: there and we're so connected. That's so much more important
Speaker 1: than you know, you know, five to fifteen I just
Speaker 1: random frantic visits, if.
Speaker 2: That one percent. And there is a chapter on friendships
Speaker 2: and connection in the book as well as a whole
Speaker 2: section on it where it's it is this piece around
Speaker 2: what friendships grow and evolve with you as you grow
Speaker 2: and evolve, as you implement these boundaries, as you make
Speaker 2: these choices, and you know, we come from this mentality
Speaker 2: of friends forever, and that's just not the case, and
Speaker 2: that it doesn't mean that there needs to be constant
Speaker 2: conflict or falling out. It's just that I talk about
Speaker 2: it in the book. You know, who are your seasons,
Speaker 2: who are your reasons, and who are your lifetimes? And
Speaker 2: how can you grow and evolve with each of those
Speaker 2: with a real love and reverence for every person that's
Speaker 2: shown up in your life. But also the expectation that
Speaker 2: we place on people to be there for us all
Speaker 2: the time is what fuels that people pleasing behavior, because
Speaker 2: it's like, well, why didn't you choose me when I
Speaker 2: needed you? And perhaps that person was choosing themselves. And
Speaker 2: it's an alleviation of I write in the book that
Speaker 2: expectation is important because it does at times lead to disappointment.
Speaker 2: But disappointment is important because when we're looking at our friendships,
Speaker 2: then we can go, Okay, why am I feeling disappointed?
Speaker 2: And wasn't an expectation that was unfair that I was
Speaker 2: placing on this friendship all this person or is there
Speaker 2: a values mismatch here? And maybe it's time to lovingly
Speaker 2: create some distance in that connection.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is so powerful and I even love like
Speaker 1: that's something you've got to check in and that's something
Speaker 1: you've got to like order and have a look at,
Speaker 1: because otherwise you are going to have Yeah, like you said,
Speaker 1: like a mismatch, and I think it's really beautiful in
Speaker 1: the book, how you do describe like there are friends
Speaker 1: where it's just a season And I think also, you know,
Speaker 1: I know in the book you were saying, like your
Speaker 1: lifelong friends, what do you call them? Lifers?
Speaker 2: Life is yeah?
Speaker 1: Life, Your life is like I have life of friends.
Speaker 1: We're still we we have seasons where we don't see
Speaker 1: each other and it's it's fine. There's not literally something.
Speaker 2: We're neutral. We're neutral. That's my favorite Georgie, because it's
Speaker 2: like when you patch up you get the connection, you get,
Speaker 2: you receive it, and then you know most of my
Speaker 2: we moved up to the Northern Rivers after born and
Speaker 2: raised Sydney, right, so I've been up here two and
Speaker 2: a half years. I was pregnant during COVID and none
Speaker 2: of my best friends saw me pregnant, none of them
Speaker 2: because they were all in Sydney, and so there, you know,
Speaker 2: I haven't seen my favorite people in the world majority
Speaker 2: of pregnancy in new motherhood, and yet we're still as
Speaker 2: solid as ever because we have that foundation of oh,
Speaker 2: we're in this life like it's a given. There's no
Speaker 2: expectations in terms of hyper availability, and when we do
Speaker 2: see each other, it's like we cry and it's the
Speaker 2: most beautiful connection and I get feel from that, and
Speaker 2: then you know, I've got new connection up here, which
Speaker 2: is also amazing and feels a different desire that I
Speaker 2: have in terms of community, and we really do need
Speaker 2: to get here on not placing the expectation that every
Speaker 2: friend is everything for us and actually having the friends
Speaker 2: that feel certain components of our lives in different ways.
Speaker 2: It becomes a lot easier that way.
Speaker 1: Oh Holly, this has just been the most amazing chat
Speaker 1: you completely fill up my car, Like I just feel
Speaker 1: so warm and fuzzy after this conversation, and I bet
Speaker 1: my community does as well. So thank you so much
Speaker 1: for giving us so much information and helping us, you know,
Speaker 1: really be a bit stronger in our boundaries and realize
Speaker 1: where we can, you know, maybe stop people pleasing and
Speaker 1: really lock in how we can do things for ourselves.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me. It's been so so
Speaker 2: nice to chat.
Speaker 1: Before you go, though, two quick questions. This is who
Speaker 1: I ask all my guests. So what is the best
Speaker 1: advice you have ever received?
Speaker 2: I feel like it's not even going to be a
Speaker 2: surprise now, but it's from my parents, and it is
Speaker 2: just do what makes you happy. And they've always said
Speaker 2: that since I was little, little little, There's been never
Speaker 2: any expectation on a certain career or a certain way
Speaker 2: that I live my life. It's what makes you happy,
Speaker 2: as long as you're a kind person, do that, and
Speaker 2: that has definitely been what's led me down the path
Speaker 2: that I'm at today. It's very very grateful for that advice.
Speaker 2: They are going to be shook by the way that
Speaker 2: I reference them. They're going to be like, we gave
Speaker 2: you the best advice, but it's true, it's true. Just
Speaker 2: do what makes you happy. Yeah, follow happiness.
Speaker 1: That is incredible. Oh my god, they sound so sweet.
Speaker 1: And my last question, I feel like I don't need to,
Speaker 1: you know, explain this to you, but what is a
Speaker 1: core belief that you hold close to your heart that
Speaker 1: has really been techral with who you are?
Speaker 2: So my very first vision board I created, I was sixteen,
Speaker 2: so that's almost almost twenty years ago, ik and on
Speaker 2: it in the center was a quote that I lived
Speaker 2: my life by to this day, and it's by Laotsu
Speaker 2: and the quote is the journey of one thousand miles
Speaker 2: begins with a single step. And that has been a
Speaker 2: reference point that I come back to consistently, like not
Speaker 2: even just annually, it's like every moment, it's what is
Speaker 2: one step I can take in my journey that's leading
Speaker 2: me down the path that I desire to walk. And
Speaker 2: when I look back on that sixteen year old version
Speaker 2: of me that placed that quote on her first vision board,
Speaker 2: it's like all of those incremental steps I've taken since
Speaker 2: them have led me down the most incredible path. Imagine
Speaker 2: where I'm going to be twenty years from now, following
Speaker 2: that quote at the forefront. So it's definitely a core
Speaker 2: belief that's held me strong in yeah, walking the way
Speaker 2: that I do today.
Speaker 1: Oh, oh my god, that is incredible. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for sharing that with us. And where can everyone
Speaker 1: find you? Where can they get the book?
Speaker 2: All the things? Oh? Thanks Gal. Well, I'm definitely most
Speaker 2: active over on Insta, so you can follow me Holly
Speaker 2: underscore as a party and you can find the book.
Speaker 2: It's very it's like very surreal. But you can find
Speaker 2: it in any of your favorite bookstores. It's on book Topia,
Speaker 2: it's in Kmart, it's in Big w and it'll stand
Speaker 2: out because it's bright orange and pink and yellow and
Speaker 2: all of the fun colors. So yeah, you can check
Speaker 2: it out. It's all R and c's favorite colors. I'm
Speaker 2: on brand. I love it.
Speaker 1: You're so brand for this interview, Holly. Thank you so much. Guys,
Speaker 1: make sure you go check out the book by it.
Speaker 1: It's honestly incredible. It's such an amazing read. And thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Holly. It has been such a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Georgie, thank you so much for listening to another episode
Speaker 1: of the Rise and Conker Podcast. If you enjoyed it
Speaker 1: and want more, come connect with us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Riseinconquer dot podcast and join our Facebook discussion group, a
Speaker 1: Rise and Concer podcast community. We're an independent podcast and
Speaker 1: we have a small team, so we do appreciate your
Speaker 1: time and support. If you have a spare moment, a
Speaker 1: follow or subscribe on whatever platform you listen to would
Speaker 1: be so amazing, and look, if you're feeling extra kind,
Speaker 1: a review on Apple Podcasts would be great.