WEBVTT - Lust, Love or LIMERENCE? Uncut with Thais Gibson 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.200 This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.720 Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:16.000 I'm Laura, I'm Brittany. 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.480 Now today's episode, we are talking about something which I'll 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.520 be honest, When originally brought the idea of doing an 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:24.079 episode on this, I was like, I don't even know 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:24.880 what that word means. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:26.079 You like, you're totally googled. 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:27.760 I was like, that's such a good idea, but I 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.760 don't know what that is. But the word is limerens. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:31.720 Now, you might have heard of it, you might not 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:33.919 have heard of it, but I would dare bet that 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.520 so many of us have experienced it. And it's kind 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:41.600 of understanding the concept between that really infatuated love, that 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:46.000 feeling of obsession around someone, but identifying the difference between 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.440 what is a limerent state of love and what is 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.680 actual love. Now we're going to be unpacking like how 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.480 to define what the difference is and also what patterns 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:57.600 might be in your relationships and how you're showing up 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.200 on your relationships. And we have literally the most qualified 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.880 expert that has ever been on the podcast in order 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:04.880 to talk about it. 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:06.040 We have Tias Gibson. 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.800 She is a counselor, author, podcaster, and co founder of 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.000 the Personal Development School. She has a PhD and over 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.759 thirteen certifications immodalities ranging from cognitive behavior therapy to neuro 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.160 linguistic programming. She's also an expert in attachment theory. And 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.680 so today's buzzword of limerens, which we're going to be unpacking. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.840 There's a few other parts of this as well, but 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.040 the parts of this and talking about limerens that we're 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.920 going to be unpacking. If you've found yourself in those 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.319 sort of patent relationships, or if you've found yourself in 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.720 a very unfulfilling love cycle, I think that this is 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:40.360 an episode you're going to get so much out of. 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.759 Or maybe if you found yourself just super obsessed with someone, 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:43.959 we're talking to you as well. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.440 Tias, Welcome to the podcast. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.440 Thank you so much for having me. I'm sure this 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.520 will be a whole bunch of fun to be here today. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.760 Well, we start every episode the same way. 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.120 I know that we just put you on the spot 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.800 to try and think of what yours is, but actually unfiltered, 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.880 your most embarrassing story, and you have one from right 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.520 back in the trenches of memory from grade nine okay. 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.080 So this is the first one that came to mind, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.680 and this is a true true story. So I was 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:09.440 in ninth grade. I went on a first date. I 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.200 had gone out earlier with friends and had been drinking 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.000 and went to meet this guy that at the time 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.120 I was like, okay, really interested in. I literally went 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.240 to meet him on a first date and went to 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.840 this movie theater and arcade afterwards. And I was in 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.280 the movie theater and I like really had to pee, 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.480 Like I really had to go to the bathroom. And 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.320 I kept being like, Oh, it's fine, I'll just wait. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:32.880 I didn't want to be rude. I was doing other 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.000 things before. I felt badly because I was already running 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.840 late to get there, so I just kept waiting. Now, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.280 mind you, like I had never piped my pants in 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.200 my whole life, so I just like that wasn't even 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.520 a thought process or like that this would happen. And 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.280 sure enough, we finished the movie and his parents were 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.240 going to come pick us up, and he was like, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.400 there's a really bad snowstorm. They're running late. They have 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.960 tickets to do a hockey game afterwards. We cannot be late. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.760 Like He's like, let's just play at the very front 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:59.520 by the arcade, and his parents were kind of going 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.160 to pick us up and drive us home. And I 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:03.919 was kind of a wild kid when I was young, 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.560 like doing all sorts of stuff all the time, and 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.040 I just kept thinking like, Okay, I'll wait, I'll take 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.480 it easy. And We're playing this basketball game in the arcade, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.600 and I kept like being like, oh my gosh, I 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.200 really have to pee. But I had said that we're 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.280 going to wait, so as soon as his parents we're 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.000 going to arrive, we'll jump in to the car and go. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.360 And at one point I started laughing during the basketball 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.320 game and I just peed and I like literally could 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:34.320 stop peeing. Like I'm laughing during the game and peeing, 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.160 and then I'm like I cannot believe this is happening. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.200 And you know, at the end of the game, there's 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.720 there's just this little tiny puddle on the floor. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.640 Oh my god, yes, like a little bit. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.920 And I thought I would die of embarrassment. Like I 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.280 thought I would die. But I was like, Okay, what 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.360 do I do in this situation, Like the only opportunity 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.560 I have is to own it, So I did. I 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:58.760 was like he he like looked at me after the 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.120 game He's like, what's wrong, and I'm sure it was 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.040 white like a girls, and I was like, I was laughing, 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:09.280 and I peed my pants and like fully fully my pants, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.040 and then he was so sweet about it. He went 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:13.800 on to be my boyfriend of like a year after. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.560 There's actually so much wrong with this conversation. 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.880 Firstly, the fact that the fact that his women, who. 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:25.800 Were so trained to not disrupt a situation or not 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.359 be put anyone out. The fact that you're like, I 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.920 didn't want to be rude and go to the bathroom. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.600 Being inconvenience basically like if you need to come to toilet, 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:33.280 it's not rude. 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:34.200 But you're like, yeah, I didn't. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.119 I had so many, so many people pleasing her shoes 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.240 as a ninth grader for a show. So that was 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.680 like the manifestation of that definitely. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.680 God at that age too, like prime teenage years. You 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.760 are so lucky it went that way and he became 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:48.880 your boyfriend and not went to school and just like 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.520 told he told everyone and everyone started bullying you, I. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.000 Know, and he didn't tell us Aul, which was good 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:56.600 for him. He was a good guy for sure. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.120 Yeah, because your girlfriend can't of wet herself. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.000 Guys, let's start from the beginning, because, as Laura said, 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.800 I think that the word limerence it is a buzzword 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:06.200 right now. 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.200 It is a word we're seeing everywhere. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.000 But I understand there'd be so many people that have 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.280 never heard of it, whilsty'll know what it is when 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.960 we explain it. So let's go back to the basics 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.320 and give us an explanation of what limerence is. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:23.279 So ellimerence itself is basically addictive and obsessive infatuation. It 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.520 was a term originally coined by a psychologist named Dorothy Tenoff, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.479 and she talked about how essentially there is a huge 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:34.920 difference between just a crush and actual limerence. Limmerence is 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.360 usually something where that tends to be in a one 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.520 way dynamic. It usually doesn't last for very long, and 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.600 there are different stages of limerens where if you look 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:49.280 at like just healthy feelings, they're generally secure and balanced. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.240 Somebody is not going to people please their way into 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.560 a relationship. They're going to have steady and supportive emotions. 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.719 They're going to generally be able to communicate and share 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:05.400 themselves naturally with somebody. But limerence is like obsessive intrusive thoughts. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.080 It is like checking somebody's social media NonStop all day 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.560 every day. It tends to be full of U fourkies 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.120 and then crushing lows when you don't get what you 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.919 want or when the situation isn't going as you hoped 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.719 or planned, or the person doesn't notice you. And really, 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.320 when we're in limerens, we have this really idealized version 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.680 of somebody and we filter out any red flags. And 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:30.919 also the uncertainty tends to fuel the attraction when it 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.960 comes to limmerens. Almost like there the more there is mystery, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.200 the more our mind fills in the blanks with all 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.159 of these amazing scenarios or seeing the best in somebody 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.360 all the time. And there's this huge fear of rejection 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.080 and constant over analyzing when it comes to limerens, and 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.479 usually it really robs a person's ability to be themselves 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.160 around their object of Limerens as a whole. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:54.520 What trigger is it? 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:54.640 So? 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.839 I mean like for some people who might feel like 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.040 they have go into the state of Limerens, and especially 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.960 when it's like one side infatuation with someone, like what 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.520 is it the triggers that type of infatuation verse just 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.760 being like normally infatuated with a person who you've come 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.160 in contact with and you think is amazing. 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.400 It's such a great question. So generally it boils down 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.600 to two major things. One is if somebody meets your 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.200 deeply unmet needs. So what that looks like is like, 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.160 let's say, for example, somebody grows up and they felt 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.440 really unseen as a child, and so maybe their parents 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.720 weren't available, weren't really present with them very much, and 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.000 they were always aching to be seen because that's what 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.040 children are wired for and that's what they're needing. And 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.200 let's say that they grow up it never really had 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.360 somebody be super present with them, and all of a sudden, 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.600 as an adult, they meet somebody who's really present, really attuned, 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.320 asks them deep questions, makes them feel like they're so 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.800 interesting and unique and special, and really goes out of 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.160 their way to connect with them. Well, that is going 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.200 to make the brain light up, essentially, because somebody is 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.240 meeting in that moment you're deeply unmet needs in that 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.840 particular case. I actually had a story once where I 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.920 was meeting with a client and this is back when 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.480 I was running my practice, and she came in one 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.600 day and we had been working for three sessions on 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.200 her like basically doing premarital preparation to have the best 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.400 relationship possible with her fiance, and she came in to 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.240 be like, Oh, I'm just gonna work out my attachment 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.280 wounds or different things. She came in three sessions later 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.960 and she said, te use, I'm calling off my wedding. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.520 And I was like, wait, you're calling off your wedding? 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.640 Why everything was going so well? And she said, I 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.760 was in Starbucks at a coffee shop and I spilled 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.320 my coffee everywhere and this man came and he stopped 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.000 what he was doing. He helped me mop up the coffee. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.320 We sat down and spoke for a moment and she's like, 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:42.600 I think it was love at first night. I think 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:44.640 this is the love of my life. And to me, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.800 I was like, wait, I hear limerens here like this 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.000 isn't you know because you don't know somebody in that 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.560 instantaneous moment And I said, okay, Well, what was so 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.000 special and unique about the interaction and what we found 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.840 was exactly that he made her feel super scene, super important. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.640 He was really present with her, and when we looked 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.520 at her history, she felt like nobody was really there 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.640 like that growing up for her. And when we looked 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.679 at her fiance, there's a lot of great qualities about him, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.960 but he also wasn't very present. And I said, look, 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.240 let's just invest for the next six weeks in trying 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.520 to get your fiance to be more present. Request that 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.520 that's a need, have different strategies to connect that way. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.080 She did it within week number four or five. She 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:24.960 was like, I can't believe I was thinking of calling 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.800 off the web. So limbers a lot of the time, yeah, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.560 a lot of the time is needs. Now. The other 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.720 pillar is traits. So if somebody has a trait that 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.959 we feel is very separate from ourselves, if we think 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.800 somebody is really assertive and we've always been boundaryless, if 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.120 we think somebody's really smart and we struggled in school 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.360 growing up, we'll often put that person on a huge pedestal, 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:47.559 and then when they like us, we'll be like, oh 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.120 my gosh, and so infatuated. And you actually see this 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.800 really commonly with people who grew up feeling like the 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.120 ugly duckling growing up. Maybe they had a funny haircut 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.679 or braces or an awkward stage in high school will 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.400 put so much emphasis on f all appearance. And I 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.160 had a client once as well come in one day 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.400 and he said that this woman who he felt was 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.440 so attractive, she was very flirtatious with him and sort 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.520 of touched his face, and he just went into full 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.800 He was married with two kids and went into full Limerens. Like, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.160 just like, I think I should leave my wife all 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.800 of these things because he had that trade of physical 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.240 attractiveness on such a big patstal that it just derailed 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:24.160 him completely. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.720 But I think also from what you're saying, it sounds like, 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.160 and we talk about it all the time, once you 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.120 get into a lot, like a really long term, stable 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.720 and quote unquote boring, safe relationship, that you often don't 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.920 feel that chemistry and connection. You don't feel seen, you 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.040 don't feel the attention. So does that play into the 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.000 confusion of limerens? Like can you think you're in Limerens 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.440 but your brain hasn't actually gone into a state of Limerens? 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.400 And is that just because you've had the attention from 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.080 a third party or an outside source. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.560 This is such a great topic. So here limerens outside 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.680 of like sex addiction and narcissism, the main reason people 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.320 cheat it is because of librence. And what I mean 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:03.800 by that is this is what I would see time 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.959 and time again, people would cheat because to exactly your point, 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.640 they were in a relationship for a long time. It 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.079 was always the same kind of storyline. They felt really connected, 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.079 got married, settled down, had kids, and there was always 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.439 a significant theme where they just didn't prioritize the relationship. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.080 They didn't prioritize still dating, still getting to know each other, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.559 and eventually they drifted apart, and then somebody started aching 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.160 for something, aching usually for things like to feel seen 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.280 or validated, or wanted or important, or have novelty or 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.640 exploration or fun in the relationship. And these things got 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.920 ignored and outsourced because we have young kids, were too busy, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.080 we're stressful. All of the rationalizations and justifications for this, 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.680 and then somebody comes along and guess what they represent 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.320 those deeply unmet needs that this person's yearning for. And 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.240 our subconscious mind is literally a needs meeting machine. It's 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.280 wired to get your needs met. That's how we evolved 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.800 for so long as a species, So it is designed 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.600 to get your needs met. And what happens is then 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.880 people start justifying. They say, oh, well, my wife doesn't 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.920 really care about this anyways, Oh well, my husband hasn't 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.680 been present or paying attention to me for years, and 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.480 start justifying these feelings, and then these feelings feel like 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.920 an addiction. And as soon as you're in this like 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.560 really tremendous state of euphoria, it's almost like you're not 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.200 of sober mind and neurochemically are not Limbrence is characterized 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.480 by like extremely elevated phenol ethylalamine, which is its attraction 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:29.280 neurochemical oxytosein the bonding neurochemical and people tend to bond 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.320 more with their objects of limerens in the fantasy world, 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:33.600 but in reality. 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.240 When you say that, you mean as in like the 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.840 perception of what they've made about this person and the 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.920 person that they've kind of imagined them to be, than 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:41.960 who they actually are exactly. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.320 And it's interesting because people who are the object of limerens, 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.600 they'll often say, like, this person's obsessed with me. They 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.680 don't even know me. This person likes me so much 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.280 they think that they know all these things about me, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.480 and they really don't. And it's because usually what we're 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.319 doing is we're outsourcing our mind, if it can't get 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.319 its needs met in the present, gets its needs met 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.960 through fantasies of the future or memories of the past. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.200 And you'll see this like if you've ever seen somebody, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.560 I remember this client I had one since she this 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.040 is somewhat related, but she said that she had a 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.280 boss and she grew up like never being able to 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.160 have a voice. She had four older brothers. She had 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.840 this boss who made her feel really small. She would 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.280 come into client sessions with me and she would tell 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.720 me these elaborate stories. I remember she would stand up, 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.560 you know, instead of sitting on the couch. She would 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.400 stand up and she would tell me these really elaborate 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.640 stories of I'm going to tell my boss this, and 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.120 then I'm going to say this, and I'm going to 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.280 tell her what I really feel. And she would say 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.840 all these things, and it was I could tell that 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:36.800 in that moment that was her way of taking her 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.040 power back. Is fantasizing about what she was gonna say 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:41.640 and how she was going to show up. And we 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.240 do this in all sorts of forms, and limerence is 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.640 one of them. So if we can't get our needs met, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.520 we'll often also project this whole fantasy of how this 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.640 person would show up and all the places we'll travel 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.040 and all the things we would do. And really it's 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.760 the mind starving for needs that we haven't consciously identified 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.840 and actually been able to action out. And that's where 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.160 it plays a crucial role, a huge role in terms 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.640 of cheating and relationships, and so much of the work 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.080 that I used to do with people around limerens, if 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.160 they were having limreents outside of their marriage, would be Okay, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.400 let's identify the needs that you're projecting in this fantasy realm. 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.680 Let's start actually communicating about them and having strategies to 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.720 meet them in your marriage, and literally the limerens would 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.400 go away and the relationship would dramatically improve. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.000 Instead, we talk all the time about the fact that 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.120 we fell in love with someone's potential, and I think 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.240 that that leans into what you're saying. It's like we 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.680 romanticize and fantasize about what could have been. And I've 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.200 never heard it said in a way that you just 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.040 said it, because I've never thought about it in that way. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.360 I know most of the time, limerence is something that 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.080 is not reciprocated. It's like an unrequired love. But can 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.880 you be in a state of limerens in a relationship 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:49.280 as well. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:54.440 Yes, so you definitely can, but limberent relationships don't tend 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.600 to last very long. And the reason being is that 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.640 when you have this addiction and you have somebody on 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.520 such a high pedestal. Whenever somebody's on a pedestal, you're 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.000 like in the pit next to them, And when we 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.240 have somebody on this huge pedestal, we end up engaging 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.480 in behaviors that are really maladaptive for relationships. So you 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.840 people please because you're so scared of losing the person. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.520 You don't communicate your authentic needs in a relationship because 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.680 you're scared that, oh what if I'm too much or 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.720 what if they don't like who I am? And so 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.080 we end up connecting inauthentically and we end up building 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.359 a relationship based on that. And with that obsessive infatuation 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.480 also comes this addiction to that person's approval, and so 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.400 you build a relationship from the very ground app based 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.280 on things that are not actually healthy, that are not 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.280 actually going to increase the likelihood of that relationship lasting. 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.280 And so generally you'll see even if we get into 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.920 some sort of relationship with the object of limerens unless 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.640 we do the inner psychological work to be like, hold 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.200 on a second here, let me take on some of 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.000 the traits that I think there are so special. Let 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.800 me see how I have some of those traits as well. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.960 One exercise that would often give people when they're in 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.400 limerens is okay, well, if it's needs based, let's start 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.440 to meet our own needs. Let's learn how to self 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.760 footh and self regulate by being like, if this person 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.800 makes me feel seen, maybe I start meditating, maybe I 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.440 start journaling. I actually start to see myself and understand 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.600 myself better. And what you'll see is it's correlated with 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.240 decrease of limerens. And now the relationship can last without 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:24.480 all these extreme expectations. And if it's traits based, we 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.440 get a person to see how they also have those traits. So, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.160 for example, if somebody is like, oh my gosh, my 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.920 partner is just the smartest person. They're so intelligent, Oh 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.440 my goodness, And that person maybe grew up feeling not 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.120 smart in school, We're like, okay, well, where is your 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.160 area of genius. Maybe you're like a creative genius. Maybe 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.880 you're amazing with people and that's your area of intelligence, 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.000 but you're judging it by like, oh, they're really intellectual 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.160 in this capacity. So when we start owning those traits 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.840 or meeting those needs, then we can get out of 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.880 that obsessive, addictive infatuation and it becomes really this invitation 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.320 to self growth. It's like, Okay, cool, here's why I'm 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.240 in Limerens. Here's what it's actually telling me. Let me 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.600 use it for something good that will grow me. And 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.679 that's how we can get on track and actually make 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.560 those relationships work. If you're not doing that work, statistically, 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:16.320 there's literally very little chance of that relationship everlasting or 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.919 making it beyond just that dating stage of relationships. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:20.679 Tias. 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.000 You mentioned early on that there's stages of Limerens. Can 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.040 you talk us through what those three stages look like? 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.560 Yes. So the first stage is really that stage of infatuation. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.000 It's that stage where we meet somebody who are like, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.320 oh my goodness, we're overwhelmed. We have all of the 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.320 rumination and often a lot of that bonding and connecting 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.080 in the fantasy realm with that person, and so that's 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.400 a huge first piece, and then eventually that moves into 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.440 what we think of as emotional addiction. An emotional addiction 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.359 is that you then have your entire emotional state or 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.199 so much of it throughout the day or week based 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.880 on that relationship and your interactions with that person. And 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.000 you'll usually see things like, in that emotional addiction stage, 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.000 somebody is maybe driving to work in the morning. They're 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.440 rich in the fantasy world with what's going to happen 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.520 with that person. They're spending so much time not even 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.320 present in their own life because they're so preoccupied with 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.280 the fantasy of this individual. And so there's this emotional addiction, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.320 and then usually what ends up happening is that emotional 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.679 addiction component is going to naturally have very high highs 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.320 and very low lows, and a lot of times, you know, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.120 you see people that have a huge infatuation or an 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.560 ellimerens with their coworker. They get to work, they clam 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.200 up around their coworker because they're so terrified of saying 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:40.760 the wrong thing, and they have them on such a 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.080 big pedestal, and then all of a sudden they're like, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:45.679 oh my gosh, I didn't say the right thing, and 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.080 then they feel terrible about themselves. Oh my gosh, they're 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:50.439