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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Dailia.

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Speaker 2: This is the Dailias.

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Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Friday,

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Speaker 2: the fourteenth of March. I'm zara, i'm emma. Earlier this week,

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Speaker 2: the former president of the Philippines, Rodrigo de Turte, was

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Speaker 2: arrested at an airport after arriving back into the Philippines.

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Speaker 2: This comes after the International Criminal Court issued a warrant

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Speaker 2: for his arrest. Duturte initiated a sweeping crackdown on drug

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Speaker 2: use and trafficking in the Southeast Asian country while in power,

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Speaker 2: and now ICC prosecutors alleged the crime against humanity of

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Speaker 2: murder has been committed, as well as things like torture,

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Speaker 2: sexual violence, and enforced disappearance.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so Zara, this story really took me via surprise

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Speaker 3: this week. I'm sure some of our listeners may have

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Speaker 3: heard Dueterte's name before, but many others like me might

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Speaker 3: not know anything about him and anything about this story

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Speaker 3: and the allegations against him. So I think it'd be

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Speaker 3: really helpful to just take it back to basics, back

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Speaker 3: to the start. Can you tell me a little bit

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Speaker 3: about who Rodrigo Duterte is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll start just with when he came into

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Speaker 2: I guess the popular conscience. So he first rose to

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Speaker 2: prominence as the mayor of the city of Devo. Now

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Speaker 2: that's in the Philippines, and he served as the mayor

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Speaker 2: of that city for twenty two years, wow, really long time.

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Speaker 2: And the city itself was when he entered power, very

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Speaker 2: well known for how high the rates of crime were.

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Speaker 2: So he kind of came into power at a time

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Speaker 2: where there were the out of control crime rates in

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Speaker 2: the city that he was now presiding over. And during

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Speaker 2: the time the twenty two years that I said that

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Speaker 2: he served, Duterte developed a really well known reputation for

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Speaker 2: how he dealt with this rising crime. Now he was

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Speaker 2: often referred to as the Punisher, which I think says everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was extremely heavy handed and from the second that

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Speaker 2: he assumed power, said that he was going to crack

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Speaker 2: down on the crime rates and specifically declared war on drugs.

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Speaker 3: So this heavy handed kind of leadership style that he

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Speaker 3: became known for very quickly, this name of the punisher that.

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Speaker 1: He was given.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, he still was in power in that city for

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Speaker 3: twenty two odd years and I'm assuming that's just the

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Speaker 3: beginning of his political career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was extremely popular, and he used exactly the

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Speaker 2: same platform that he had governed with in that city

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Speaker 2: to then launch his presidential bid. And so he became

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Speaker 2: president in twenty sixteen, and almost immediately what he said

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Speaker 2: he was going to do he did. Within days of

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Speaker 2: his landslide victory. He vowed to reintroduce the death penalty,

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Speaker 2: said he'd fatten all the fish in Minnila Bay with

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Speaker 2: the bodies of criminals. I'm going to quote some of

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Speaker 2: the things he said at that time because I think

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Speaker 2: it's quite remarkable that these were said publicly on television

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Speaker 2: and they're very readily accessible. He said, forget the laws

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Speaker 2: on human rights. If I make it to the presidential palace,

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Speaker 2: I will do just what I did as mayor. You

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Speaker 2: drug pushes, hold up men and do nothings, You better

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Speaker 2: go out because I'll kill you.

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Speaker 3: So these are the words that he has said during campaigning.

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Speaker 3: So he's platformed on these hardline policies and then won

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Speaker 3: a landslide election victory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I mean he had the twenty two years

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Speaker 2: as mayor to point to to say, look, I have

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Speaker 2: changed this city, let me do the same thing to

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Speaker 2: the country. In a televised address shortly after he successfully

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Speaker 2: won the presidential election, he came out and very explicitly

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Speaker 2: endorsed members of the public engaging in vigilante activity, and

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Speaker 2: that basically just means like taking punishment into your own

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Speaker 2: hand outside of the legal system. He said directly that

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Speaker 2: he would personally reward anyone who shot and killed a

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Speaker 2: drug dealer. Just to give you a sense of the

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Speaker 2: numbers and what we're talking about here. According to Amnesty International,

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Speaker 2: more than six thousand people were killed in the first

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Speaker 2: six months of Deterte's presidency as part of this so

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Speaker 2: called war on drugs.

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Speaker 3: It's one thing to have a prominent leader kind of

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Speaker 3: take a hardline stance of this nature on drugs, but

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Speaker 3: a whole other thing to kind of, you know, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about what twenty sixteen to hear a leader in

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Speaker 3: the modern times that we live in essentially be endorsing

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Speaker 3: violence or this vigilante style activity from citizens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, you're right, because the war on

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Speaker 2: drugs is not anything new. You know, we've seen it

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Speaker 2: in US history. We've seen it to some effect here

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Speaker 2: like that is not a new concept or a new idea,

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Speaker 2: but what was happening in the Philippines was very different.

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Speaker 2: So I said six thousand people in the first six

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Speaker 2: months to give you a sense of how that was happening.

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Speaker 2: The overwhelming majority of those killings were extra judicial killings

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Speaker 2: by death squads. Wow, death squads being a term that

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Speaker 2: Duterte himself has owned. He said in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: last year that he had used death squads, and he

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Speaker 2: said in acknowledging the existence of these death squads that

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Speaker 2: they were mainly made up of gangsters. Which is interesting because, yeah,

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Speaker 2: all of this is about crime.

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Speaker 3: Because we're seeing the state or the law enforcement colluding

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Speaker 3: with organized crime in.

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Speaker 1: This war on drugs.

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Speaker 3: The war on drugs, presumably organized crime has a role

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Speaker 3: to play there.

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Speaker 1: So I guess there are those questions and of corruption.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's so multifaceted and there's still so

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Speaker 2: much that's not known. But what we do know is

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Speaker 2: that Human Rights Watch has said that what they call

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Speaker 2: the urban poor were the primary targets of these death squads.

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Speaker 2: And we've also learned quite a bit through the International

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Speaker 2: Criminal Court, and that court alleges that Deuterte's attacks were

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Speaker 2: both widespread and systematic. The court says that the crackdowns

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Speaker 2: took place over a period of several years and resulted

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Speaker 2: in thousands and thousands of deaths. Now, as I said,

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Speaker 2: the exact number isn't known, but I was looking around

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Speaker 2: to try to get a sense of it. The New

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Speaker 2: York Times reports that the death toll could be around

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand.

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Speaker 1: What really struck me about this story is that it's

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Speaker 1: not just.

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Speaker 3: About a government kind of going hard on drug manufacturing

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Speaker 3: or drug dealing organizations. This seemed to be such a

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Speaker 3: widespread policy that, you know, people in really remote or

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Speaker 3: poorer communities where drug addiction might have been a really

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Speaker 3: significant social issue in those areas, that there were kind

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Speaker 3: of mass killings targeted at those more vulnerable people within

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Speaker 3: the community as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the thing that stuck out to

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Speaker 2: me when I was researching this is the popularity that

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Speaker 2: he in. So Duturte left office extremely popular, I believe,

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Speaker 2: the most popular leader in the country's history, and so

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Speaker 2: he really had this kind of populist element to his popularity,

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Speaker 2: and I just think that's also really interesting.

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Speaker 3: You have mentioned that International Criminal Court investigation and the

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Speaker 3: arrest at the top of the episode. So what do

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Speaker 3: we need to know about how that fits into the

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Speaker 3: story why now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So let me just first quickly explain for our

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Speaker 2: listeners what the ICC is and then we'll go into

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Speaker 2: why we're talking about it today. So the ICC, or

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Speaker 2: the International Criminal Court, is a un body. It's tasked

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Speaker 2: with investigating crimes against humanity. So just quickly, the International

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Speaker 2: Court of Justice, the ICJ that looks at countries, the

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Speaker 2: ICC the one we're talking about today that looks at individuals, okay,

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Speaker 2: And so they're different courts and they have different they

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Speaker 2: have different mandates as well. So this court has power

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Speaker 2: to issue arrest warrants and to compel people to appear

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Speaker 2: before a tribunal at the Hague, which is in the Netherlands,

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Speaker 2: and that's where the ICC is based. One hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty five countries are parties to the ICC, meaning they

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Speaker 2: recognize its power and that they must arrest anyone on

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Speaker 2: their soil with an active warrant. So that's not every

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Speaker 2: country you'll notice, and so there you start to see

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Speaker 2: some of the complexities that occur when we're talking about

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Speaker 2: these kind of world courts. And if you're thinking, why

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Speaker 2: have I heard about the ICC as of late. It

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Speaker 2: has been in the headlines a fair bit over the

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Speaker 2: last few years. The court has issued arrest warrants for

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Speaker 2: Russian leaders, for Israeli leaders, for leaders of Hamas, and

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Speaker 2: we've spoken about a few of those cases here on

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Speaker 2: the podcast before. But that's kind of why we've heard

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Speaker 2: a bit more from the ICC as of late.

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Speaker 3: Going back to Deterte, you mentioned earlier, Azara that the

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Speaker 3: ICC has one hundred and twenty five country members who

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Speaker 3: recognize its juristiction, but the Philippines isn't.

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Speaker 1: One of those.

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Speaker 2: No, it was until twenty nineteen when Duturte pulled the

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Speaker 2: Philippines out of the ICC in response to their investigation

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Speaker 2: into him. So they were a party to the ICC.

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Speaker 2: They are no longer and that remains true today, which

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Speaker 2: is why there are so many elements of this story

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Speaker 2: in white. It's so unusual that he has now been arrested.

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Speaker 3: So they launched an investigation into him when the Philippines

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Speaker 3: was still part of the ICC. The Philippines withdrew at

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Speaker 3: his demand. What were the International Criminal Court looking into

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Speaker 3: in those early days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so prosecutors at the time alleged in their application

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Speaker 2: to the ICC that and I'm just going to quote

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Speaker 2: it here. President Duturte and other high level government officials

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Speaker 2: reportedly encouraged, supported, enabled, and excused the killing of drug

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Speaker 2: users and drug dealers, and so under that they applied

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Speaker 2: for an arrest warrant. But as we just spoke about,

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Speaker 2: the Philippines hasn't been a party to the ICC, and

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Speaker 2: so that arrest warrant has kind of been at large

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Speaker 2: for a while. However, in November, the current president of

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Speaker 2: the Philippines said he wouldn't stop international police from arresting

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Speaker 2: Deuturte in the Philippines.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: But what's more interesting is that the current Vice president

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Speaker 2: of the Philippines is Dutte's daughter. Oh my god, and

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Speaker 2: so we've got the president who is basically giving the

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Speaker 2: green light for the vice president's father to be arrested

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Speaker 2: on home soil, which is exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: I did not know that element.

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Speaker 3: Interesting as well, though, that the language from the Philippines

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Speaker 3: has been that it wouldn't stop police from arresting Deuterte,

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Speaker 3: so kind of careful political speak. I guess they're active

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Speaker 3: versus passages, not necessarily facilitating the arrest, but not standing

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Speaker 3: in the way. So that then brings us to the

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Speaker 3: present day, Zara, what has happened this week?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so on Tuesday, the Philippines Presidential Communications Office confirmed

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Speaker 2: that Deuterte had been arrested after he arrived in Manila

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Speaker 2: on a flight from Hong Kong. In the statement, the

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Speaker 2: office said that Deuterte had received an official copy of

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Speaker 2: his arrest warrant, so he knew what he had been

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Speaker 2: arrested for. And then later that day, so very quickly,

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Speaker 2: Ditte was put on a plane to the Hague, which,

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Speaker 2: as I said earlier, is where the ICC is based,

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Speaker 2: where he is expected to face charges of crimes against humanity.

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Speaker 3: So obviously this is a story and an investigation that

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Speaker 3: has been going on for several years.

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Speaker 1: But to have all of that momentum in one day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been arrested, he'll face the International Criminal Court,

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Speaker 3: but presumably that doesn't happen immediately.

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Speaker 1: No, So what is happening now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So nothing moves fast when we talk about international courts.

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Speaker 2: You know, got to think about how many different jurisdictions

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Speaker 2: and levels of law we're talking about here. So it

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Speaker 2: is a slow moving process. A trial isn't expected to

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Speaker 2: begin for another few months still, and when it does start,

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Speaker 2: it is likely to take a very long time to

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Speaker 2: get through all of this evidence has to be presented

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Speaker 2: on both sides. We are, however, expecting Deterte to appear

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Speaker 2: before the court as part of a pre trial hearing

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Speaker 2: sometime this week sometime soon. He won't be required at

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Speaker 2: this stage though, to enter a plea. This is just

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Speaker 2: the pre trial part before they get to the main

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Speaker 2: part of it all. In the meantime, while he awaits trial,

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Speaker 2: Deturte will be kept in detention near the Hague, so

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Speaker 2: near where he is being tried. And interestingly, I was

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Speaker 2: reading up about the detention center he's being kept at,

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Speaker 2: and he's been kept there with all the other people

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Speaker 2: that are there awaiting trial. Oh wow, And so there

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Speaker 2: are other world leaders and military leaders from a bunch

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Speaker 2: of different countries around the world. It's not a prism

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Speaker 2: in the sense that you think about when you think

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Speaker 2: of a prison. Yeah, apparently they're like, you're uga classes

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Speaker 2: there that they can do, so it's quite a Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's quite an interesting concept. But I did think it

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Speaker 2: was unique that all of these kind of very powerful

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Speaker 2: people are all being kept vaguely in the same place.

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Speaker 3: That's super interesting, Zara, What kind of outcome has been predicted?

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Speaker 3: What could this look like on the other side of

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Speaker 3: what will no doubt be an incredibly lengthy trial, is

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Speaker 3: Duturte looking at life behind bars?

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Speaker 1: What happens?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, it's very difficult to know. There's not a

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Speaker 2: whole heap of precedent that's been set in this space.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, if we look at the numbers since

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Speaker 2: the court was created, its judges have issued just eleven

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Speaker 2: convictions and four acquittals. Twenty one people have appeared before

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Speaker 2: the court, and thirty one people remain at large, largely

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Speaker 2: the people that you know we mentioned earlier. Charges have

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Speaker 2: also been dropped against seven people due to their deaths.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that gives you a sense that

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Speaker 2: we don't know a whole lot. There's not this rule

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Speaker 2: book that followed. These are all very unique cases in

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Speaker 2: different jurisdictions. So we don't know what will happen from here.

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Speaker 2: But first, as I said, there'll be that pre trial,

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Speaker 2: then the trial, and then we'll have to see what

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Speaker 2: happens from there.

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Speaker 3: Interestingly, you mentioned Duturte's popularity as leader, and a popularity

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Speaker 3: that has stood the test of time for some people

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Speaker 3: of the Philippines, because we've seen a lot of protests

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Speaker 3: that have emerged on the ground there in the day

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Speaker 3: since his arrest, So some more kind of knock on

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Speaker 3: effects domestically for people in the Philippines, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of unrest on both sides.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's interesting as well is I mentioned his

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Speaker 2: daughter is the vice president. Her popularity is extremely high.

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Speaker 2: She was kind of this shoe in to become president

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Speaker 2: at the next election, I believe in twenty twenty eight,

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Speaker 2: had really high popularity ratings. What this will do to that,

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Speaker 2: no one really knows. But again, just something really interesting

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Speaker 2: to consider and a complexity to all of this.

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Speaker 3: A very very complicated story with so many interesting and

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Speaker 3: and facets. Zara, thank you so much for breaking that

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Speaker 3: down for us today and explaining it so well. Thanks

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Speaker 3: em Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you

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Speaker 3: enjoyed it, feel free to share it with a friend,

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Speaker 3: forget to subscribe. We'll be back a little bit later

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Speaker 3: on today with your evening headlines, but until then, have

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Speaker 3: a great day.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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