1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: Now, when parents do talk to their kids about sex, 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: about intimacy, they mainly focus on the act itself. 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: and dad. 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 3: Hello. 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: We are Justin and Kylie Coulson, our husband and wife 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: podcast pair and Parents have six children. I've written six 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: books about raising happy families. 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 4: Over the past few weeks, there's been some really startling 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 4: and frankly horrifying stories in the major news outlets about teenagers, 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 4: primarily at Sydney's Well Healed Private School. 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, before you go on, just quick warning and acknowledgement. 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: This is not a podcast for kids or for those 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: with sensitivities around sexual assault. We're going to give you 17 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: a quick second to press pause and come back to 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: this one later. If you have your kids with you, 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: or if this is one of those topics that does 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: not bow well for you, We're going to be talking 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 2: about some pretty heavy stuff in this In this podcast. 22 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 4: You know, conversations around enhance sex education at schools and 23 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 4: about assault and consent have been popping up everywhere. It's 24 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 4: a really important conversation to have. 25 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I brought it up on Facebook last week, did 26 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: a couple of Facebook lives about it. 27 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: Went very big, very fast. 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 4: School principles and student leaders have been really vocal, and 29 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 4: there's been some great stuff coming out about it and 30 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 4: shared online. Yeah, but it's crazy. It's just it's devastating 31 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 4: to think that in twenty twenty one, we're still teaching 32 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 4: people that women are humans who have feelings and shouldn't 33 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 4: be harmed. 34 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: So in this podcast episode, we're going to do something different. 35 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: First off, Mum and mea podcaster and author Rebecca Sparrow 36 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: is going to chat with us about her impressions on 37 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: all of this, and the reason for that is Beck 38 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: spends her days literally all day every day, thinking about teenagers, 39 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: communicating with teenagers, writing books and articles for teenagers, talking 40 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: to teenagers. She is smart it comes to this stuff. 41 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: And then in the second half of the podcast, I'm 42 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: going to read my thoughts to you. It's something that 43 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: I wrote in my book Misconnection, and I think it's 44 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 2: going to add to the conversation. 45 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 4: Beck, thanks for joining us, Hey guys in the news. 46 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 4: One of the central conversations and the push is the 47 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 4: petition for better sex education in schools. Is this what 48 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 4: we need? 49 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 5: Look, I think it's part of the answer. I don't think. 50 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 5: I don't think the responsibility for this lies in any 51 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 5: one person's lap. So I think that do schools need 52 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 5: to step up what they're doing? And I think some 53 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 5: schools are probably better handling this better than others and 54 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,559 Speaker 5: handling this topic and looking at the culture of their school. Absolutely, 55 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 5: But my personal opinion is that this has really got 56 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 5: to be handballed over to parents as well. This is 57 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 5: a family conversation and a tone that is set in 58 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 5: the home. So I think, yes, absolutely whenever schools can 59 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 5: and work boundaries and consent into different topics, but also 60 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 5: at home. I think a lot of parents are scared 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 5: to address it, but I think parents need to step up. 62 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 4: Be you talk to a lot of students, boys and girls, 63 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 4: what do you put this toxic sexual culture down to. 64 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 5: Well, obviously, I mean I think porn is the main 65 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 5: culprit here. Definitely. I think that that is warping the 66 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 5: view of what sexual encounters should look like. If some 67 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 5: of these kids are accessing a lot of porn, then 68 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 5: they have no reason to think that sex looks like 69 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 5: anything other than that. So, and there's a real lack 70 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 5: of consent in the porn industry in how it's filmed, 71 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 5: I guess so, of course in some ways, of course, 72 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 5: like it's a no brainer in some ways that we're 73 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 5: having this issue because the sex said teacher that a 74 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 5: lot of kids are getting, which is the porn industry 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 5: is teaching them the opposite of what we actually want 76 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 5: them to know. So I do think it's more widespread, 77 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 5: Like there's really when we look back, if I can't 78 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 5: watch certain movies that I grew up with with my 79 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 5: kids because there's problematic elements to them where you think, oh, 80 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 5: that's not okay, that joke or that conversation, that's not 81 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 5: how it should be. So I think part of the 82 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 5: issue is that parents are on this learning curve and 83 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 5: the kids are on this learning curve. So I think 84 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 5: that's and that's why maybe also some parents don't have 85 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 5: the tools to talk about consent because they also don't 86 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 5: realize the nuances of what consent actually means. 87 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: Something that I've discovered as well, beck when I talk 88 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 2: to parents is that they're already a little bit funny 89 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: about a lot of parents just don't want to have 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: conversations about intimacy and sexual engagement. They definitely don't want 91 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: to talk about pornography. I mean, I've written about twenty 92 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: articles for the federal government's e Safety Commissioner. They're all online, 93 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: they're all available for people so that you can learn 94 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: how to. 95 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: Have these conversations with your kids. To them in the 96 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: show notes. 97 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: But something that's really interesting to me is that when 98 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: parents do talk to their kids about sex, about intimacy, 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: they mainly focus on the act itself. And what I've 100 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: found is that parents tend to divorce emotional intimacy from 101 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: physical intimacy. We have a conversation about what sex is 102 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: and how it works, but we don't actually talk about 103 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: what it is to be involved in an emotionally intimate relationship, 104 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: a relationship of trust, a relationship where that. 105 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 3: Desire builds over time. 106 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: And I think that you're right that pornographic you meet 107 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: somebody on the street and two minutes later you are 108 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: in their apartment having some kind of I was going 109 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: to say intimate encounter, but it's not. 110 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: It's just a sexual encounter. 111 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: Because a pornography and society seem to have divorced these 112 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 2: two things. 113 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 5: Absolutely and I would even say the moment you say 114 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 5: to parents, I've sent it online in the comments over 115 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 5: the last few days of my child's on the X age, 116 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 5: I can't have this conversation yet. So let's just also 117 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 5: say consent. 118 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 3: Doesn't have to be about sex. 119 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 5: Consent is can I have permission like from one sibling 120 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 5: to another? Can I have permission to go into your room? 121 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 5: Can I have permission to look through your bag? Is 122 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 5: it okay if I take that chip off your play? 123 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 5: That is where you start the conversations with consent, you know? 124 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 5: Can I give you a hug when we start the 125 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 5: com It doesn't have to be right. We're talking about 126 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 5: consent and sex, and we don't have to. 127 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: Start it there. 128 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 5: We can start it right back in how your family 129 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 5: dynamic operates with personal boundaries, and if we start it younger, 130 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 5: start it when our kids are whatever in kindie or whatever, 131 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 5: it makes it a normal progression. Then talking about boundaries 132 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 5: and what you're okay with. So i'd certainly say that, 133 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 5: and I completely agree with you. I think so often 134 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 5: in the past sex education has actually been all about, 135 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 5: you know, don't get somebody pregnant and don't get that's 136 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 5: what it was for a long time for our generation, 137 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 5: and I think now we're talking about the communication around 138 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 5: that intimacy of somebody or that encounter. We're talking about 139 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 5: everything leading up to that, and the communication signals and 140 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 5: body language and reading all of the things somebody is 141 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 5: communicating to you without necessarily saying any words. 142 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 4: So permission and respect, that's the message around consent. Definitely, definitely, 143 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 4: last question for you back, kids love your talks. I 144 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 4: want to know what really hits home for kids when 145 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 4: you talk about this topic with them. 146 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 5: I think the thing that I have noticed in certainly 147 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 5: in the last twelve months that has had the biggest 148 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 5: impact is not when I talk about consent. It's when 149 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 5: I talk about personal boundaries and when I talk about 150 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 5: how important it is for each of us to work 151 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 5: out what our personal boundaries are and how to communicate 152 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 5: those boundaries. And personal boundaries is really just a fancy 153 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 5: way of saying what you're okay with, and that you 154 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 5: are allowed to say, Actually, I don't do scary movies, 155 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 5: or I don't do sleepovers, or I'm not okay with that. 156 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 5: So often we expect, we sort of say to our kids, 157 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 5: just say no or don't go there. But we don't 158 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 5: give them the words or the language of how to 159 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 5: communicate things. And I think that when I've had these 160 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 5: conversations with kids, having them think about their own personal boundaries, 161 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 5: that's a big part of the conversation is personal boundaries 162 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 5: is all about you're in the driver's seat and what 163 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 5: are you okay with? And that then gives you more 164 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 5: agency in your life of like, what are you okay 165 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 5: with in this encounter, whether it's with kids at school, 166 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 5: whether it's with your grandma wanting to give you a hug, 167 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 5: whether it's on a first date. So if we can 168 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 5: the more empowered we can be with understanding personal boundaries 169 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 5: and owning our boundaries and being able to communicate them, 170 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 5: we're going to be in a better place. 171 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 3: So much wisdom, Thank you so very much. 172 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 4: You're welcome. Thanks guys. 173 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: In just a sec I'm going to read from Misconnection 174 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: why your teenage daughter hates you, expects the world, and 175 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: needs to talk, and share my ideas around how we 176 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: can get this consent message through to our kids, both 177 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: boys and girls, including a script that mums and dads 178 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: can rely on to get the message across and where 179 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: the consent is even enough. 180 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast. 181 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 6: Our Screens Creating Tension at Home, tweens, teens and Screens 182 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 6: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions. 183 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 6: Bye today at happyfamilies dot com dot au slash shop. 184 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast of the time, 185 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now. And we're having 186 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: a pretty tough conversation today around consent, personal boundaries, respect, 187 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 2: respect for relationships, assault, at all of those things that 188 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: you've heard us talking with Rebecca Sparrow about. What we're 189 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 2: going to do now is I'm going to dive into 190 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,599 Speaker 2: my book Misconnection, because I've written about two and a 191 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: half pages on this topic that i think are really 192 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: important for every parent, and I'm going to read that 193 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: to you just because I think it will help and 194 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: I hope that you get lots out of it. 195 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 3: Here we go. 196 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: This is from page two hundred and four, two hundred 197 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: and five, and two hundred and six of Misconnection. Why 198 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 2: your teenage daughter hates you, expects the world, and needs 199 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: to talk. Positive conversations about sexuality should start young. Talk 200 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 2: to young children using proper names for body parts as 201 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: they become older. Talk to them about sex and intimacy frankly, 202 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: openly and honestly. Once they develop an interest in a 203 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: boyfriend girlfriend, talk to them about negotiating boundaries. Clearly, the 204 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: one thing we do not teach is that our daughters 205 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: are responsible for the actions of another person. 206 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to say that again. 207 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 2: One thing we do not teach is that our daughters 208 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: are responsible for the actions of another person. Our goal 209 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: is to raise forthright, confident young women who are comfortable 210 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: talking about their bodies, what turns the mind, and how 211 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: they feel about what their partner wants from them. For now, though, 212 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: here are two crucial conversation points about sex. First, when 213 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: we teach our daughters about sexual matters, we must teach 214 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: them about consent and courage. We might say consent means 215 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 2: that when it comes to holding hands, touching, kissing, or 216 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: any interactions with any of your sexual organs, and when 217 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: it comes to the act of sex itself, you absolutely 218 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: want to do what the other person wants you to do, 219 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: and you're enthusiastically saying yes. If you aren't sure and 220 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: they're trying to press you, they do not have consent. 221 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 2: And the same goes if you want something that they don't. 222 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 2: Consent is safe. Consent is healthy. Consent is the law 223 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: if the person you're with wants to do something you 224 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: don't like, or if you're feeling pressured or coerced, This 225 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: is where we move from consent to courage. You need 226 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 2: to have the courage to say no. When you say no, 227 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: you need to do it clearly and forcefully. The other 228 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: person needs to know without question that you were saying no. 229 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: It can't be Maybe it can't be that you just 230 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: ignore it and let things keep getting more and more intimate. 231 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: You need to say no and communicate it clearly. You 232 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: might say I'm really happy to kiss, but I don't 233 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: want you groping me. Alternatives could include I'm fine with 234 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: this touching each other, but I will not have sex 235 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: with you, or I'm fine with us exploring our bodies 236 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 2: a bit, but I will not have intercourse with you. 237 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: Let me pause for just a moment to highlight some 238 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: important issues related to what I've just advised. First, the 239 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: freeze response is common in instances of boundary crossing and 240 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: sexual assault. I'm not implying that a girl who cannot 241 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: overcome her fear in this instance lacks courage, nor is 242 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 2: she responsible for her partner failing to elicit enthusiastic consent 243 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: from her. It is sometimes impossible to be clear and 244 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: forceful in a deteriorating sexual encounter. This again, is why 245 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: we pre arm our daughters. We speak to them and 246 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 2: our sons clearly about what is and what is not 247 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 2: okay in a sexual encounter. We explain consent emphatically, and 248 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: if our daughter is harmed, abused, or assaulted, we do 249 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: not blame her for the actions of the person who 250 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: has hurt her. We help her to know that a 251 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 2: person who goes beyond consent is not passionate or in love. Instead, 252 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: they are selfish and entitled at best. At worst, they 253 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: are a criminal or a rapist. For parents of boys, 254 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: teach your son that if he has not received an 255 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: enthusiastic yes, he needs to get the hell off her, 256 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 2: and it can't just be one yes. For instance, she 257 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: might agree enthusiastically two fingers, but not full. In the course, ongoing, 258 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: enthusiastic consent has to be confirmed again and again. He 259 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: also has to be aware of signs that might indicate 260 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: his partner is not into what they're doing, even if 261 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: she's already said yes, or if she hasn't said no, 262 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: silence is not consent. Saying yes once is not ongoing consent. 263 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 2: Saying yes in a squeaky, scared voice doesn't mean she's 264 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: enthusiastic about either. As laws continue to change in relation 265 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: to consent, this conversation will protect our sons. But again, 266 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: at a deeper level, boys need to stop relying on 267 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: girls to be the gatekeepers of sexual behavior. They can, 268 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: and they need to step up and do the right 269 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 2: thing in these situations because it's the right thing to do. 270 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: Another important point on consent, Requiring consent actually sets the 271 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: bar breathtakingly low. While it's true that if our daughters 272 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: are going to be intimate, then it must be consensual, 273 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: we will still see girls being pested until they say okay, fine, 274 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 2: this is so wrong. A girl should not be hassled 275 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: into intimacy that she doesn't want. It leaves her feeling used, and, 276 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: to use an old fashioned word that may not be 277 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: popular but seems strangely accurate, unworthy. She feels like she 278 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: is literally worth less because she has been treated by 279 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: her romantic partner precisely that way. The conversation should not 280 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 2: be about consent, okay, fine, doesn't cut it to giving 281 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: my kids fifty dollars to go out for dinner with friends, 282 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I believe 283 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: we need to move well beyond consent. Instead, the conversation 284 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: should be about honored desire. I don't think that's going 285 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: to catch on like consent has, but honored desire should 286 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 2: be the benchmark. Unless both people in that intimate encounter 287 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: are positively saying I want to do this, then both 288 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: need to be patient and gentle and demonstrate that their 289 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: partner's desire is worth respecting. That is what the consent 290 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: conversation should really be about, anything less as selling our 291 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: children's sexual experience and worth short. Consent and courage are 292 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: crucial for clarity and communication and for our children's well being, 293 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: and these conversations start. 294 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: At the beginning. 295 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: There's a whole lot more in misconnection that I could 296 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: read to you and emphasize about this conversation, but that's 297 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: it for today. We really hope that you've enjoyed the 298 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast, even if it hasn't been about the 299 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: happiest of topics, if you did get something out of it, 300 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: if you find it useful and worthwhile. 301 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 3: Please share it with a friend. 302 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: Please jump onto Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and 303 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: leave a rating and review. It's those reviews that help 304 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: other people to find out about the podcast and eventually 305 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: somehow make their families happier. As always, we really appreciate 306 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: the work of Craig Bruce, our executive producer, and Justin 307 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: Rulan from Bridge Media. 308 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: For producing the podcast. And if you'd like to get. 309 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: More information about making your family happier, you can pick 310 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: up that book Misconnection from anywhere books are sold, including 311 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: my website, Happy families dot com dot you, or you 312 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: can log on too happy families dot com dot you. 313 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: That's where you get all the info about our monthly 314 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: membership and all of the great ways that you can 315 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: make your family happier. Go to happy families dot com 316 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: dot au.