Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the
Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money Podcast, Millennials
Speaker 4: who want Financial Freedom. My name is Jessica Ricky, and
Speaker 4: today I am here with my favorite finance expert, Victoria Divine.
Speaker 1: You better not have any other favorite finance experts. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, imagine if I said my second favorite finance experts,
Speaker 1: you should have red flag, which is very appropriate flag, Jessica,
Speaker 1: because in today's episode, we're going to be talking all
Speaker 1: about financial red flags in a relationship, which I feel
Speaker 1: like is a little interesting, a little, a little spicy.
Speaker 1: We're going to kind of cover two really broad areas
Speaker 1: of conversation here, so I feel like it's important we
Speaker 1: do put a little content warning at the top. I
Speaker 1: think a content warning here is perfect, actually, Jessica, because
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this topic can be
Speaker 1: a little bit painful or it might raise a few
Speaker 1: issues for you, and if it does, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not great that that does, but I'm also glad that
Speaker 1: they're being brought to light so that we can deal
Speaker 1: with them. There'll be a whole heap of resources in
Speaker 1: our show notes as usual. But also if you just
Speaker 1: want to skip out on today's episode, there are three
Speaker 1: hundred plus She's on the Money episodes now that you
Speaker 1: could dive straight into. So if today's not for you,
Speaker 1: that is totally okay.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Now, Via, I wanted to kind of start at
Speaker 4: the top because something we always talk about on the
Speaker 4: show is the importance of having conversations about money with
Speaker 4: your partner. And we've had people say to us before,
Speaker 4: I want to talk to my partner about it, they
Speaker 4: just shut me down. Any flag, Yeah, so would you
Speaker 4: say that that is a little bit of a red flag?
Speaker 1: I don't know if are they different levels of red flag.
Speaker 1: Can I have an orange flag, a red flag, and
Speaker 1: a crimson flag? I love it? Thank you. I feel
Speaker 1: like financial conversations are really hard and don't tend to
Speaker 1: come up very easily at the start of new relationships. Right.
Speaker 1: That's because most of the time we're just trying to
Speaker 1: impress the other person, So you like taking them out
Speaker 1: to different restaurants and bars, maybe you're getting hotel rooms,
Speaker 1: or maybe you're having like weekends away or showering them
Speaker 1: with expensive gifts, like often that is a way that
Speaker 1: we show off. But soon you might begin to notice patterns, right,
Speaker 1: and we've spoken about this offline a lot. The patterns
Speaker 1: might be oh, yes, sorry, I forgot to bring my wallet.
Speaker 1: I'll pay you back, and then they never pay you back,
Speaker 1: or too many times they're like, oh, you know, it
Speaker 1: was my turn last time, and you're thinking, like in
Speaker 1: the back of your head, you're like, oh, I feel
Speaker 1: like I paid for a last date. But okay, like
Speaker 1: gaslighting central, no worries. But it's one of those things
Speaker 1: that red flags can start green and then start changing
Speaker 1: to orange, and then they're red, and then you're not
Speaker 1: sure what to do because you feel a little bit
Speaker 1: too deep. So I think it is really important to
Speaker 1: have this conversation today about what a financial red flag
Speaker 1: actually looks like, because sometimes when things seem really insignificant,
Speaker 1: financial red flags can compound faster than anything could in
Speaker 1: your subranuation account. So it's really, from my perspective, important
Speaker 1: to talk about this, especially because the statistic exists that
Speaker 1: sixteen percent of Australian women have or will experience financial
Speaker 1: abuse at some point in their lifetime. And obviously it's
Speaker 1: an important area to keep your finger on the pulse,
Speaker 1: even if the flags do seem a little bit harmless
Speaker 1: at the time. So it's about being educated and informed
Speaker 1: and on top of it for sure.
Speaker 4: And as this episode goes on, I think you'll see
Speaker 4: a little bit of a trend that there are certain
Speaker 4: things that contextually may or may not be a red
Speaker 4: flag because in one relationship, something you know, it might
Speaker 4: seem totally fine, and in another relationship it can be
Speaker 4: a bit of a warning bell. And I think that's
Speaker 4: why it is really tricky sometimes to take a step
Speaker 4: back and see these red flags.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at the end of the day, you said
Speaker 1: it just before, like sometimes they can be small red
Speaker 1: flags and they start out as, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: forgot my wallet. Sorry, can you catch this one? And
Speaker 1: then they never pay you back. But they can actually
Speaker 1: very quickly snowball into something bigger. And I was reading
Speaker 1: something the other day from a psychologist called Ronda Andrews,
Speaker 1: and she has been a psychologist for more than thirty years,
Speaker 1: and she said that she thinks it's about the rush
Speaker 1: of getting into joint financial circumstances. And she says that
Speaker 1: she sees a lot of people suggesting that they stet
Speaker 1: up joint accounts when they've only just met someone. And
Speaker 1: as innocuous as it sounds, let's have a joint account
Speaker 1: so that we can say, for a joint holiday and
Speaker 1: be on the same page, it actually can be a
Speaker 1: massive red flag. So I think it's really important to
Speaker 1: talk about what this is and what healthy boundaries mean
Speaker 1: for you and your relationship.
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more so. Having that initial conversation about
Speaker 4: money can be a little bit awkward, and that in
Speaker 4: itself isn't necessarily a red flag. It could just be
Speaker 4: reflective of your new partner's money story or the experiences
Speaker 4: that they've had. How can we comfortably ease people that
Speaker 4: we're seeing or interested in dating into having those more
Speaker 4: challenging intimate conversations about money.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important to remember that not every
Speaker 1: conversation about money has to be personal, right, Like if
Speaker 1: I go on a date with you, Jess, which I
Speaker 1: should be so lucky. Actually, let's be honest. I've been
Speaker 1: out for dinner with you a billion times. I've probably
Speaker 1: been out for dinner with you more times than I've
Speaker 1: been out with Steve. Should we tell him?
Speaker 4: Should we let him know there's a third person in
Speaker 4: your relationship and it's me?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, me and Lucy. It's good anyway. I think
Speaker 1: it's really important to realize that if you're going out
Speaker 1: for dinner with someone or going on a date with someone,
Speaker 1: money conversations can happen in a non personal way. Like
Speaker 1: we can talk about your salary, great, really personal, but
Speaker 1: we could also just talk about inflation. We could talk
Speaker 1: about the interest rates. We could talk about how much
Speaker 1: dinner costs. We could start with really small things to
Speaker 1: get an understanding of somebody else's general attitude towards money
Speaker 1: and start kind of like teasing out how different their
Speaker 1: money story could be to yours. We could talk about
Speaker 1: financial goals. I don't have to have a conversation Jess
Speaker 1: with you about oh my gosh, how much money do
Speaker 1: you earn? To oh my gosh, are you working towards
Speaker 1: anything big financially at the moment, And they might say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm actually saving for a house, which is exactly what
Speaker 1: you would say, Oh are you close? Yeh, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to a broker. I'm so close. This is
Speaker 1: such an exciting conversation. That question, too, though, could be
Speaker 1: really scary for someone to be asked if they're in
Speaker 1: a mountain of debt, because I know, Jesse, if I
Speaker 1: asked you that six or seven years ago, you would
Speaker 1: have shied away and run for the hills because you're like, please,
Speaker 1: don't ask me that. That's none of your business. So
Speaker 1: it's really important to talk talk about money in your relationship,
Speaker 1: but make sure you're taking baby steps. You don't get
Speaker 1: to just dive in and go how much do you earn?
Speaker 1: What do you spend? What do you earn? What do
Speaker 1: you woe? Yeah, do you got any debt? What does
Speaker 1: it look like? How do you feel about your hex?
Speaker 1: Do you reckon your parents? Are go guarante or on
Speaker 1: a future property if we ever, you know, decided to
Speaker 1: do things together.
Speaker 4: Can't go full Victoria divine on your first day.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't, though, But I do think that financial
Speaker 1: intimacy is a thing, and I think that in the
Speaker 1: same way that you might not dive straight into bed
Speaker 1: with somebody. I mean you might, you might ask them
Speaker 1: how much they earn, but it's all about reading the
Speaker 1: other side of the table and going are they going
Speaker 1: to be comfortable with this? Am I asking a question
Speaker 1: that maybe isn't actually related to the conversation we're having,
Speaker 1: or is it just on the right path? And I
Speaker 1: feel comfortable because I've had so many conversations, mostly in
Speaker 1: my DMS, with people being like, oh, Ve, like you
Speaker 1: said on a podcast that you would never ask on
Speaker 1: a first date, and haha, it came up in the
Speaker 1: first ten minutes of our conversation. That's so fine. I
Speaker 1: think it's more about respecting somebody else's boundaries and if
Speaker 1: they're being really evasive of money conversations, not to pry.
Speaker 1: It's not your position on a first date. Whereas if
Speaker 1: it comes up and it's just naturally flowing conversation, I
Speaker 1: don't see that as a red flag. I think it's
Speaker 1: really important to have these conversations, but really reading into
Speaker 1: what is appropriate and what is not appropriate, and that
Speaker 1: can be flipped to the other side, Jess, like if
Speaker 1: you consistently asked me about my income and what that meant,
Speaker 1: but I was clearly showing you evasive signs and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to have that conversation. I'd say that is
Speaker 1: a red flag, not just a financial red flag. But
Speaker 1: you can't read the room red flag.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think what you said there is really
Speaker 4: relevant when it comes to the conversation because I think
Speaker 4: if you're just meeting someone and you're trying to put
Speaker 4: on your best face, it might catch you a little
Speaker 4: off guard. If I said, oh, how's the Brussels sprouts?
Speaker 4: By the way, how much debt do you have? It's
Speaker 4: a really jarring Are.
Speaker 1: You actually tering Brussels sprouts on your first date?
Speaker 4: I mean, you love the ones that chin chin, which.
Speaker 1: Is as the I just wasn't sure.
Speaker 4: But that could be really disarming for someone who wasn't
Speaker 4: prepared for it, and particularly in the early signs of
Speaker 4: a relationship, you maybe aren't as comfortable having those conversations.
Speaker 4: So I think warming into those things. Working your way
Speaker 4: up is a really good way to approach it. But
Speaker 4: also understanding that people's reactions aren't necessarily reflective of a
Speaker 4: red flag immediately. Like if you ask someone about their
Speaker 4: finances on you know, your first couple of dates and
Speaker 4: they seem taken aback, that's not necessarily a red flag
Speaker 4: because they don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Might they've just grown up with a different money story
Speaker 1: to you, ef, some money we've never discussed in their families,
Speaker 1: or in their past relationships or in their friendship circles.
Speaker 1: I mean, the more I'm in this community, the more
Speaker 1: conversation I have about money. Like Jess, we've just gotten
Speaker 1: back recently, in last month or so from a finance conference.
Speaker 1: All we did was talk about money. Yeah, can you
Speaker 1: imagine going to a lawyer's conference, how often money would
Speaker 1: have come up? Like, nobody in that space that I'm
Speaker 1: aware of openly discusses their salary, and they more often
Speaker 1: they're not, especially in Australia, don't discuss their salary because
Speaker 1: there's salary secrecy clauses in most lawyers employment contracts. So
Speaker 1: for different industries it's going to mean different things. Whereas JESSL.
Speaker 1: I know you've got a lot of friends that are
Speaker 1: similar to mine, and they are nurses, they're on an award.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, how long have you been working? Oh
Speaker 1: where do you work?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: That hospital? Yeah, the pay grade is xyzed like. There's
Speaker 1: such an open conversation around that. Whereas you flip it
Speaker 1: to different industries, it means different things. So I think
Speaker 1: you need to be really aware that there's no such
Speaker 1: thing as one size fits or when it comes to
Speaker 1: money conversations. But I think it's about once you get
Speaker 1: to know them a bit more and you understand their
Speaker 1: money story and you understand where they're coming from. That's
Speaker 1: where red flags start to mean something for sure.
Speaker 4: Now, in my mind, red flags go one of two ways,
Speaker 4: particularly when you are dating. So there's the red flags
Speaker 4: that go, Okay, you and I we're not in the
Speaker 4: same place, so I'm a saver and you're a spender.
Speaker 4: Or I want to buy a house and get married
Speaker 4: and have children and you don't want any of those things,
Speaker 4: And those are indicators that neither of you are necessarily
Speaker 4: doing anything wrong, but there's a misalignment there that potentially
Speaker 4: could mean that a relationship isn't going to work out
Speaker 4: in the long term.
Speaker 1: And I mean, there are so many different examples of that,
Speaker 1: right like you said them before, But it doesn't even
Speaker 1: have to be financial. It doesn't even have to be
Speaker 1: the big things, Like you might be a vegetarian and
Speaker 1: you hate the fact that you're you know, person that
Speaker 1: you're dating eats meat, and then you realize you would
Speaker 1: never want to live in a house with someone who
Speaker 1: cooks steak every second night for dinner. Like, there are
Speaker 1: so many different things and reasons a relationship might not
Speaker 1: work out, but I do think that the crux of it,
Speaker 1: money can be one of the hardest things to get
Speaker 1: on the same page about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's those kind of little misalignment things, and
Speaker 4: then the second kind of red flag is something that
Speaker 4: signifies that there's some toxic behavior going on. So red
Speaker 4: flags that perhaps there might be a history or a
Speaker 4: future of financial abuse or financial control, which is obviously
Speaker 4: something that we are very passionate about, and we don't
Speaker 4: date that not at all. We've done a full episode
Speaker 4: on financial abuse. If if you're not up to speed,
Speaker 4: I would really recommend giving it a listen. And I
Speaker 4: want to talk to VD about how we kind of
Speaker 4: differentiate between the two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So first to differentiate, I would really want
Speaker 1: to define what a financial red flag means. I think
Speaker 1: your two perspectives actually make a lot of sense. But
Speaker 1: from my perspective, a financial red flag is an ongoing
Speaker 1: money concern that's either causing a problem right now or
Speaker 1: has the ability to cause a problem a little bit
Speaker 1: later into the future. So if it is either of
Speaker 1: those things, which I think you've defined, I've just done
Speaker 1: it in like one sentence. Apologies, love your work, Jessica, Ricky.
Speaker 1: I feel like yours makes more sense. Minds a little
Speaker 1: bit more clinical, you could say. But red flags, as
Speaker 1: you said, not always a relationship deal breaker, but if
Speaker 1: they're not addressed, they probably will create a pretty significant
Speaker 1: relationship and financial strain, which means the sooner jest you're
Speaker 1: able to identify any red flags in a relationship, the
Speaker 1: sooner you can work to address and resolve them. So
Speaker 1: I guess that's why we're talking about this, to so
Speaker 1: that we can actually understand some of the common financial
Speaker 1: red flags, what you can do when you see those
Speaker 1: red flags, and also be able to identify what it
Speaker 1: means when it goes beyond just being a red flag,
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, a red flag
Speaker 1: is just an indicator that something might be wrong. Sometimes
Speaker 1: we get false reds, but of course not every single
Speaker 1: partner who displays a red flag to us is going
Speaker 1: to be a financial abuser, right like at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, just because we have different red flags.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at my financial circumstance, I'm
Speaker 1: sure we could find some, absolutely we could. But it
Speaker 1: could just mean that someone is bad with money and
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to end the cycle of credit card
Speaker 1: debt or making poor money decisions. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: they're abusive, but in some circumstances it does mean that,
Speaker 1: and we need to be really clear when that happens
Speaker 1: what we need to do. What we need to do
Speaker 1: is get out of that circumstance.
Speaker 4: So what indicators are there that the red flags that
Speaker 4: we're seeing might be a symptom of a large issue.
Speaker 1: As we discussed Jess in the episode about financial abuse.
Speaker 1: So we believe that you're in a financially abusive relationship
Speaker 1: if your partner does any of the following. So if
Speaker 1: they give you allowances or budgets without your input, if
Speaker 1: they require you to account for each and every single
Speaker 1: dollar that you spend. If they pressure you to quit
Speaker 1: your job or sabotage any of your work responsibilities. If
Speaker 1: they feel entitled to your money or your assets, if
Speaker 1: they spend your money without your knowledge, they control how
Speaker 1: or all of the household finances are spent without your consent.
Speaker 1: They limit your ability to attend job training, pursue higher education,
Speaker 1: or otherwise advance your career. Or they limit access to
Speaker 1: your own bank accounts or joint bank accounts. And obviously
Speaker 1: there are a heap of other indicators of financial abuse. However,
Speaker 1: as we discussed in that episode, it is financially abusive
Speaker 1: if it is beyond your own personal control and you
Speaker 1: don't feel like you have a say, so, it can
Speaker 1: actually be a whole heap of things, Like Jess, it
Speaker 1: could be threatening to cut you off, but at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, it means that you are not
Speaker 1: in control of your personal financial circumstances. And if that's
Speaker 1: the case, it's not a red flag. It is financial abuse.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, that's really solid, and I feel like that
Speaker 4: gives us a good basis understanding of where that line
Speaker 4: in the sand is. Obviously, like we said before, you
Speaker 4: really need to read the room, and sometimes it does
Speaker 4: take a couple more dates to figure out if something
Speaker 4: is just them doing something you don't agree with, versus
Speaker 4: something where they're trying to be controlling of you. So
Speaker 4: I think let's digest that, let's go to a quick break,
Speaker 4: and then when we come back, I want to talk
Speaker 4: through some of the other general red flags you might
Speaker 4: want to keep an eye out for.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, all right.
Speaker 4: VD, Let's talk through some of the red flags that
Speaker 4: we can expect to see in a relationship and why
Speaker 4: we might need to be concerned about them that.
Speaker 1: We can expect to see in a relationship. I hate that.
Speaker 4: Well, that we should make an eye out for in
Speaker 4: a relationship. Maybe a little less hush.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So number one I have written down is that your
Speaker 1: partner refuses to talk about money. So I feel like
Speaker 1: this is an interesting one. I get it. Talking about
Speaker 1: money sucks. It is hard, nobody likes it, especially when
Speaker 1: you're trying to keep thing sexy at the start of
Speaker 1: a relationship. But I think there's a really big difference
Speaker 1: between feeling a little bit uncomfortable when it comes to
Speaker 1: talking about money and outright refusing to have a conversation,
Speaker 1: regardless of how long you've been with that person. From
Speaker 1: my perspective, a partner who actually refuses to talk about
Speaker 1: money could be doing so for a number of reasons,
Speaker 1: and all of them leave room for concern.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. And that's kind of what we covered
Speaker 4: off earlier when we said, you know, it is a
Speaker 4: little bit of a bad sign if they're not willing
Speaker 4: to talk about it at all. And there is definitely
Speaker 4: a big difference between being uncomfortable versus flat refusing to
Speaker 4: get involvedible, and the flat refusing is to me the
Speaker 4: red flag. It's not just being uncomfortable. Everyone gets a
Speaker 4: little bit uncomfortable with pervy topics. I think it's the
Speaker 4: flat out refusal me red flag.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Next one is when your partner is being super
Speaker 1: secretive about their spending and saving and investing behaviors. I
Speaker 1: think that that, to me is a little bit suspicious,
Speaker 1: especially when you get deeper into a relationship. So it's
Speaker 1: obviously really sexy to think that. I keep using the
Speaker 1: words sexy because relationships should be, but I think it's
Speaker 1: nice to romanticize that your partner might hide some funds
Speaker 1: away to one day purchase an engagement ring right, like,
Speaker 1: I've thought about it. My partner did it money in
Speaker 1: It was very exciting. But while all of that seems
Speaker 1: really romantic, it's less romantic when all of their spending
Speaker 1: and saving habits are hidden. Secretive behavior is obviously a
Speaker 1: massive concern if you have joint accounts or you're working
Speaker 1: together towards a common financial goal, like you're saving for
Speaker 1: a house, and their secretive behavior is actually completely throwing
Speaker 1: you off the rails to being able to achieve that goal,
Speaker 1: or something that they're spending their money on doesn't align
Speaker 1: to your financial goals, and you're like, well, where is
Speaker 1: this going to me? It's not necessarily about having different
Speaker 1: money priorities. It's actually about the secretiveness of it. And
Speaker 1: this can lead to obviously bigger issues, like it could
Speaker 1: lead to a gambling addiction, or it could mean that
Speaker 1: they have a credit card that you weren't aware of,
Speaker 1: or maybe they're carrying debt that they didn't bring up
Speaker 1: earlier and didn't know how to bring up with you.
Speaker 1: I think it's a really worthy conversation, but I do
Speaker 1: think that another red flag is when someone is super
Speaker 1: secretive about their spending habits. I think particularly as well,
Speaker 1: even just beyond the financial aspect of it, your partner
Speaker 1: is arguably the person in your life that you know
Speaker 1: the most intimately or if not one of the most intimately,
Speaker 1: and so if they're not in a position where they
Speaker 1: feel comfortable opening up to you, or you don't feel
Speaker 1: comfortable opening up to them, I think that you need
Speaker 1: to consider whether you are in fact comfortable with that
Speaker 1: person to level that you want to be. And I
Speaker 1: guess we maybe should define this at the top. But
Speaker 1: when we're talking about these red flags in relationships, we're
Speaker 1: talking about long term relationships. Ye're not like first date
Speaker 1: red flags.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not necessarily for someone that you're going to
Speaker 4: go on one date with and never see again, have
Speaker 4: a good night, thank you, wambam, thank you, ma'am. It's
Speaker 4: more about okay, well, if you're planning on potentially spending
Speaker 4: the rest of your life with this person, if you
Speaker 4: can't get comfortable enough with them to be honest about
Speaker 4: your debt that you're embarrassed by I've been there, or
Speaker 4: absolutely the roles reversed and they're not comfortable enough with you,
Speaker 4: is the level of trust that you would hope to
Speaker 4: see in a long term partner, does it exist, because yeah,
Speaker 4: it can be embarrassing, it, it can be confronting to talk
Speaker 4: about these things. But if you're not in a place
Speaker 4: where you can do that, are you in a place
Speaker 4: where you can get married, Are you in a place
Speaker 4: where you can have children or grow old together? Because
Speaker 4: I think that it's important that you are able to
Speaker 4: get on the same page with these things because they
Speaker 4: impact your financial wellbeing really significantly, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And that leads into my next red flag when it
Speaker 1: comes to money in a relationship, Jess, and that is
Speaker 1: that your partner's financial values don't actually align to your own.
Speaker 1: And to me, this is a rare flag. It's not
Speaker 1: a be all, end all end of relationship conversation, but
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to be one aware of
Speaker 1: your partner's financial goals to a point where you deeply
Speaker 1: can overlay your goals and go, oh, we're on the
Speaker 1: same path or we're not. And I've openly discussed before
Speaker 1: that prior to meetings Steve, I didn't want to buy property.
Speaker 1: I didn't think that that was a line to my
Speaker 1: own financial goals. I was scared of it. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to take on that amount of debt. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to owe the bank that much money. I was
Speaker 1: obviously a financial advisor when I met Steve, and I
Speaker 1: was so excited about the share market and that's where
Speaker 1: all my wealth was. And so for me, yeah, our
Speaker 1: financial values did in the line. But what it meant
Speaker 1: was we opened that conversation up how to chat and
Speaker 1: realized that relationships are about compromise, how do we both
Speaker 1: meet our financial goals. So to me, it's a red
Speaker 1: flag in a good way. It's an indicator that you
Speaker 1: need to have deeper conversations, but it goes back to
Speaker 1: the other issue where if your partner then doesn't want
Speaker 1: to compromise, or then your partner doesn't want to have
Speaker 1: the conversations around money, that red flag becomes crimson. So
Speaker 1: I think it's about are you willing to be flexible?
Speaker 1: Are you willing to have a conversation about how to
Speaker 1: get on the same page, because you're never going to
Speaker 1: meet someone that you're one thousand percent on exactly the
Speaker 1: same page. As like, life is about compromise and change
Speaker 1: and being flexible, and a partner who doesn't share your
Speaker 1: financial goals could be an indicator that they're not on
Speaker 1: the same page as you long term, which inevitably is
Speaker 1: going to put you in a position of frustration and
Speaker 1: lack of control and feeling upset and maybe even heartbreak
Speaker 1: down the line, how.
Speaker 4: Do we differentiate between things that we shouldn't shouldn't compromise on?
Speaker 4: And I know should and shouldn't is very definitive and
Speaker 4: it's really hard personal. But I mean, you know, when
Speaker 4: you're in love and you're in those early days and
Speaker 4: you're so you know, you're in the moment, and you're
Speaker 4: in your little rose colored bubble, I think it's really
Speaker 4: easy to go, oh, you want to buy a house.
Speaker 4: That's fine, we can buy a housecause I love you
Speaker 4: and I want you to be happy. How do we
Speaker 4: figure out where the line in the sand is between
Speaker 4: things that we are okay with being a bit f explode,
Speaker 4: Like I want to live in the city and you
Speaker 4: want to live in the country, So maybe we live
Speaker 4: in the middle versus the things that are us fundamentally
Speaker 4: changing our wants and needs out of love in a
Speaker 4: way that won't necessarily make us happy.
Speaker 1: So I think it's different for every single person. But
Speaker 1: the we did it was having a conversation about the
Speaker 1: importance of those goals. It wasn't just Steve going I
Speaker 1: want to own a house, full stop endo story, Like,
Speaker 1: we quite literally were like, how important is it to
Speaker 1: you to have a house? And you know, it didn't
Speaker 1: happen overnight. It happened over a number of years where
Speaker 1: we came to the general consensus that yes, buying a
Speaker 1: house made sense. But it made sense because his love
Speaker 1: and want and goal of buying a house was far
Speaker 1: stronger than my want to be in the share market
Speaker 1: for the long term. So I think it was about
Speaker 1: the importance and where you value it. Whereas you know,
Speaker 1: house ownership was sitting quite low on my priority list,
Speaker 1: but it was very close to the top for Steve,
Speaker 1: and as his partner, I want him to achieve those things.
Speaker 1: So for me, I wanted to be on that journey
Speaker 1: with him because it was no longer about just the property.
Speaker 1: It was about helping my partner achieve his life goals.
Speaker 1: And so I think you need to take it a
Speaker 1: little bit further and really weigh up the pros and
Speaker 1: cons of it, because pathetically, if we were in a
Speaker 1: different financial circumstance, that wouldn't have made sense for me
Speaker 1: to support that, because I could have been like, great,
Speaker 1: but it's going to take us another ten years and
Speaker 1: we don't have the income to support a mortgage, and
Speaker 1: you know, there could have been a million stumbling blocks.
Speaker 1: But I think it's about having open, honest conversation, and
Speaker 1: for us, it was actually about saying, let's put aside
Speaker 1: your feelings, Victoria, and let's put aside your feelings Steve,
Speaker 1: and go what does buying a house financially look like?
Speaker 1: What doesn't mean for us? How would this work? How
Speaker 1: would it impact all of our other goals? And that's
Speaker 1: kind of how we came to the decision to actually buy,
Speaker 1: because we're like, all right, well now we're on the
Speaker 1: same page about exactly what that means. It was a
Speaker 1: less emotional decision, so it was taking the emotion out
Speaker 1: of it, being able to have a pragmatic outcome, and
Speaker 1: then overlaying the emotion again for me to go, yep,
Speaker 1: it's still not like my number one priority, but I
Speaker 1: can see how much that means to you. Does that
Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The next red flag I have just is borrowing money
Speaker 1: consistently from family and friends. I think this is a
Speaker 1: massive red face flag, and like I get it, things happen.
Speaker 1: It's pretty common to have to borrow money from a
Speaker 1: friend or a family member at some point, sometimes somewhere,
Speaker 1: but I think the problem arises when it's pretty consistent,
Speaker 1: so every single weekend they're borrowing money from their mum
Speaker 1: but they have a full time job, or they're always
Speaker 1: borrowing money from friends, Like I just think that that
Speaker 1: is an indicator of poor money management. And obviously, not
Speaker 1: only does money come as a massive burden, I'm very
Speaker 1: against lending money to your friends or your family where
Speaker 1: you can avoid it, because I think that it plays
Speaker 1: into a far bigger issue and often a power dynamic.
Speaker 1: But I think it also just shows that your partner
Speaker 1: is not very good at money management. And to me,
Speaker 1: if you want a financially secure future for future you,
Speaker 1: that to me would be a red flag of like
Speaker 1: this person needs to get it together.
Speaker 4: Would you say the excessive usage of credit cards and
Speaker 4: buy now, pay later services comes in my same cutry.
Speaker 4: So to whip up the rest of that point, I
Speaker 4: also think it's a bit of a lack of respect
Speaker 4: for your friends and families generos, and also they just
Speaker 4: don't have clear financial boundaries, which I think is again
Speaker 4: red flag. But the credit card thing, Yes, if they're
Speaker 4: over using a credit card or racking up a heap
Speaker 4: of debt, or falling behind on credit card payments or
Speaker 4: opening a new credit card to pay off the old
Speaker 4: credit card, I just think that that's an even bigger
Speaker 4: problem that needs to be addressed. That if you end
Speaker 4: up in a relationship with that person, arguably becomes your
Speaker 4: issue too.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that is your responsibility to
Speaker 1: pay it off, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: if you're in a relationship with someone who has pretty
Speaker 1: significant personal debt, that's going to stop you moving ahead
Speaker 1: in the future. It's arguably a bit savage, Jess, but
Speaker 1: it is the truth. And I have one more financial
Speaker 1: red flag before I ask you if you've written down
Speaker 1: any and my last financial flag is and this has
Speaker 1: come from previous experience in an old relationship that we
Speaker 1: won't mention ever again after this episode. And that's when
Speaker 1: your partner is overly frugal with their money but super
Speaker 1: frivolous with yours. So I hated this so obviously we
Speaker 1: know that, oh my god, honey, I left my wallet
Speaker 1: at home. Can you get this and then they never
Speaker 1: transfer you the money back. But something that and this
Speaker 1: is so niche. I hope no one resonates with this.
Speaker 1: But often when I was staying over at a previous
Speaker 1: partner's house, when we were seeing each other and it
Speaker 1: was all well and good, we'd go to the shops,
Speaker 1: and if we were buying ice cream and it was
Speaker 1: at his house and he was paying, it would always
Speaker 1: be home brand. But if he was at my house
Speaker 1: and we were going to the shops to get whatever
Speaker 1: we were getting and maybe we're getting like a little
Speaker 1: dessert and wanted some connoisseou or vanilla ice cream, somehow
Speaker 1: it always made it into the basket that I was
Speaker 1: paying for, But if I put it in his, he'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, it's not on sale, Oh we can't
Speaker 1: do this, and always go for the cheaper option. And
Speaker 1: to me, it was a massive red flag that he
Speaker 1: would be overly frugal with his money but not very
Speaker 1: frugal with my own, because I felt like that was
Speaker 1: generally disrespectful of my generosity and my financial boundaries. But
Speaker 1: I also think that it was a little bit deep
Speaker 1: representative of his lack of respect for my time, energy,
Speaker 1: and effort that it took to earn that money, and
Speaker 1: he obviously respected his so to me, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: Victoria divine, you should have seen that earlier.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, yeah, one thousand percent.
Speaker 1: So, Jess, what red flags would you like to bring
Speaker 1: up with the team?
Speaker 4: I think you covered them all really well. The one
Speaker 4: big one I think for me that I think it's
Speaker 4: important to hit home is if you see a disconnect
Speaker 4: between the words of what your partner is saying and
Speaker 4: their actions. That's a huge red flag for me across
Speaker 4: the board in finances and in other aspects of the
Speaker 4: relationship as well. When it comes to finance, like you
Speaker 4: were saying, if you're talking about, oh, we want to
Speaker 4: buy a house together and we have this big goal,
Speaker 4: but then your partner's going out and you know, dropping
Speaker 4: in a couple hun with the boys every weekend at
Speaker 4: the pub or things like that, I think it's important
Speaker 4: that absolutely you both have room to do things that
Speaker 4: are important to you, and nobody should be accountable to
Speaker 4: anybody else for every cent that they spend. But I
Speaker 4: think if your partner is saying one thing and doing another,
Speaker 4: it's a symptom of a bigger issue. So if they go, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm really trying to save money, but every date you
Speaker 4: go on is at a five star restaurant, you go,
Speaker 4: you're not though, Yeah, exactly right, it makes me question
Speaker 4: their self awareness, whether they know what they're doing and
Speaker 4: they see the disconnect, or whether they don't recognize the
Speaker 4: problems that they have. It makes me question the validity
Speaker 4: of what they're saying as well, like are they just
Speaker 4: telling me these things because they want me to believe them?
Speaker 4: Are they saying I'm really frugal because they know that's
Speaker 4: important to me, but ultimately they're not, so are they
Speaker 4: lying to me? And ultimately I just think you know
Speaker 4: that there's that all daying actions speak louder than words,
Speaker 4: and maybe they aren't comfortable having those money conversations like
Speaker 4: we were talking about at the top of the episode,
Speaker 4: and that's okay, But if you're saying one thing and
Speaker 4: doing another, it says to me that there's a disconnect
Speaker 4: either within yourself or with me, and either way that's
Speaker 4: a big issue.
Speaker 1: I agree, And I think one of the most important
Speaker 1: things to come out of this episode is not just
Speaker 1: the red flags, right, Like red flags are going to
Speaker 1: be different to everybody, like a red flag could actually
Speaker 1: just be an ikey feeling that you get about a
Speaker 1: circumstance that if you wrote it down, you'd be like,
Speaker 1: that makes no sense. But I want you to know
Speaker 1: that that is a really valid ikey feeling and you
Speaker 1: can hold onto that and think about it and you
Speaker 1: can look deeply into that. But I think the one
Speaker 1: thing that I want you guys to get out of
Speaker 1: today is to know when to walk away from a situation,
Speaker 1: a relationship, or you know, anything that is not serving
Speaker 1: you any longer. And I mean, we live in a
Speaker 1: world where women are often encouraged in a way to
Speaker 1: stay in less than ideal circumstances in exchange for financial security,
Speaker 1: and that's not what we want for the she's on
Speaker 1: the money community. We want you to be empowered, and
Speaker 1: we want you to have your emergency funds, and we
Speaker 1: want you to be able to say no to anything
Speaker 1: that doesn't respect you or the circumstances or what you
Speaker 1: have worked towards. Right, so you, personally, each and every
Speaker 1: single one of you deserve to be in a relationship
Speaker 1: that serves you, one that aligns to your goals and
Speaker 1: your values for the future, and prior ortizes your well
Speaker 1: being and your financial wellbeing and a relationship that is
Speaker 1: built on mutual respect and trust. And I feel like
Speaker 1: these red flags are all indicators that those things aren't there.
Speaker 1: And so from my perspective, I think that such a
Speaker 1: significant part of this episode is just knowing your worth
Speaker 1: and knowing that you don't have to put up with
Speaker 1: financial red flags and we can say no, thank you,
Speaker 1: this doesn't align to my goals or my values. And
Speaker 1: as much as walking away can be super, super difficult,
Speaker 1: it's a way of protecting you when your financial health
Speaker 1: and your financial future and you need to give yourself
Speaker 1: the respect you deserve. And I think that's that's what
Speaker 1: I want you to get out of today, not just
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, here's a particular red flag, like yeah,
Speaker 1: the red flags are a bit of a fluffy catchphrasy
Speaker 1: way of being like, hey, guys, listen to this episode.
Speaker 4: We want you to know your worth absolutely And going
Speaker 4: back to the conversation at side of the show, if
Speaker 4: you are unsure about anything you're experiencing, if you're feeling
Speaker 4: like your relationship might be taking a turn for the worst,
Speaker 4: please have a look at the resources that we've got
Speaker 4: linked in the show. Talk to your friends and family
Speaker 4: as well. I think sometimes your girlfriends or your boyfriends
Speaker 4: are a really good sense check for You'd be like, hey,
Speaker 4: my date, did this cool or a.
Speaker 1: Cool or nah?
Speaker 4: Usually nah if you have to ask those usually nah
Speaker 4: for sure. But you know, if you're going is it
Speaker 4: just me blowing something out of proportion? Which I think
Speaker 4: is women we sometimes do a lot.
Speaker 1: No, not the blowing it out of proportion. We just
Speaker 1: assume we're blowing it out of proportion when it's usually
Speaker 1: a crimson flag.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't gaslight yourself. Talk to the chicks, talk to
Speaker 4: the dudes, get a bit of a sense check on it,
Speaker 4: and if in doubt, chat it out. Oh I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that, but we're keeping that, get me right.
Speaker 1: I think we are done. As always, it is paramount
Speaker 1: that you connect with your friends and support networks if
Speaker 1: anything has been brought up in this podcast that you
Speaker 1: would talk about. Obviously you can chat with our friends
Speaker 1: from the National Debt Helpline and there are going to
Speaker 1: be a heap of resources in the show notes of
Speaker 1: this episode, so please check them out. See you on Friday, guys.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
Speaker 1: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
Speaker 1: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
Speaker 1: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
Speaker 1: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
Speaker 1: the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
Speaker 1: your needs. Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are
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