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Speaker 1: Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the

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Speaker 1: land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of the land where you, the listener of

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Speaker 1: viewer are tuning in from.

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Speaker 2: We would like to pay our respects to our.

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Speaker 1: Elders past and present and acknowledged that this always was

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal land and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bail. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of the Black Magic Woman Podcast. My name

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Speaker 1: is Mondanara Bales and I am joining you from beautiful

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Speaker 1: Gadigal Country and we're celebrating Black Cart's tenth birthday during

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Speaker 1: EIGHTOC week here on the lands where my ancestors once fought.

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Speaker 1: The guests that I have with me today are big

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Speaker 1: shout out to our listeners and also now our viewers

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, and a big shout out to our new

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Speaker 1: audience and listeners around Australia because we are now the

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Speaker 1: first stablishmal podcast on the iHeartRadio network. Congratulations and you

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Speaker 1: can also listen to Black Magic Woman as part of

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Speaker 1: Virgin's in flight entertainment, So if you're flying home today,

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Speaker 1: make sure you check us out. But look I really

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Speaker 1: want to get down to this yarn, and I've been

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Speaker 1: waiting for about three years.

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Speaker 2: To have a yarn.

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Speaker 3: Hard to track me, hard to.

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Speaker 1: Track you out even in Gama. I grabbed him for

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Speaker 1: ten minutes and it was the best ten minutes. And

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of deadly people on that yarn. But

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Speaker 1: I just want to say stand Grant, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for taking time out of your business schedule to

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Speaker 1: join us on the Black Magic Women podcast. Can you

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Speaker 1: please introduce yourself to my listeners and viewers. Tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself, your mob is and where

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Speaker 1: you grew up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I grew up everywhere really, my dad's moraderie mums Kamillroy.

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Speaker 3: I've also got Darawhal heritage as well.

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Speaker 4: From my great great grandfather Frank Foster, who came from

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Speaker 4: around Laparous and then down the South coast, So my

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Speaker 4: family is really connected right across New South Wales.

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Speaker 3: I spent most of my childhood on the road.

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Speaker 4: We moved around a lot. Dad was my tinerant laborer.

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Speaker 4: Saw Miller was always a big mob of us, you know, cousins, uncles, aunties,

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Speaker 4: my grandparents.

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Speaker 3: We'd just move around from town to town.

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Speaker 4: I suppose home was really Griffith, where I was born,

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Speaker 4: and the Three Ways Bridge, Aboriginal Mission where my family lived,

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Speaker 4: and we'd always go back and forward to Griffith. We'd

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Speaker 4: move away from work and then go back again. So

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Speaker 4: you know, my childhood was spent on the road and

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Speaker 4: spent among my own people, with the support and love

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Speaker 4: of my own people.

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Speaker 1: I can't help but think about your deadly father, Stan

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Speaker 1: Grant Senior, who has been a trial blazer when it

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Speaker 1: comes to Warajuri language.

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Speaker 2: Can you share with.

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Speaker 1: Me a little bit about the fact that you have

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Speaker 1: been speaking your Warajeri language more and more that I

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Speaker 1: want to learn Worajury now so I can speak to

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Speaker 1: you and Anita Heist and all the other Warajuri people

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 2: I learned the language.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and then there's a story behind this.

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Speaker 4: When my father was a young boy, his grandfather, my

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Speaker 4: great grandfather, Wilfred Johnson, whose name was Budjan Budjan Johnson,

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Speaker 4: he spoke to my father in the main street of

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Speaker 4: the town they lived in in Morajeri, called out for

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Speaker 4: him to go home, and the police overheard him and

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Speaker 4: arrested him. They charged him with offensive language and took

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Speaker 4: him to jail, and when he came out, he said

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Speaker 4: to my father, I won't talk this language to you

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Speaker 4: in the street ever again.

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Speaker 3: We'll only do it out in the bush. And he

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Speaker 3: took my father out in the bush and he taught him.

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Speaker 3: And my father was one of the lucky ones, you know.

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Speaker 4: He was one of the last generation to be connected

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Speaker 4: with those people who had lived lives almost untouched by

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Speaker 4: white people, who had our culture, who had our language,

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Speaker 4: who understood our dance and our ceremonies and our stories.

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Speaker 4: And it was that connection that sustained my father. And

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Speaker 4: it wasn't until many years later, when Dad was in

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Speaker 4: his fifties that a linguist came to him and said,

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Speaker 4: I want to try to capture as much of the

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Speaker 4: Warrajuri language as possible. And he and Dad worked together

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Speaker 4: and over a five year period they wrote the first

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Speaker 4: Worajuri dictionary. They set up Moradui language centers right across

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Speaker 4: our country. Charles Sturt University today has a Arajuri language

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Speaker 4: and program, and our people are speaking it again, and

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Speaker 4: a new generation is speaking it. And what's really interesting too,

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Speaker 4: is that a lot of non Aboriginal people are coming

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Speaker 4: to it so for the first time in over two

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Speaker 4: hundred years, white people are speaking our language on our country,

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Speaker 4: which has been an incredible act of reconciliation, an incredible

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Speaker 4: act of generosity from our people, and a way of

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Speaker 4: imagining what we've been always talking about, imagining the country

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Speaker 4: that we should be, and bringing that country to life and.

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Speaker 2: Talking about country.

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Speaker 1: You actually lived overseas for majority of your career, twenty

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Speaker 1: years overseas as a foreign correspondent. I used to see

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Speaker 1: you on the news and my dad said, he's a blackfellow.

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Speaker 1: And when you came back to Australia in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: you was part of a debate, a race debate, and

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Speaker 1: that video went viral. If you have not watched the

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Speaker 1: Australian Dream Speech, it's on YouTube. I refer to it

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Speaker 1: a lot. It's part of Black Card's pre reading. You

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Speaker 1: share the love of the country. You love, a sun

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Speaker 1: burnt country, a land of sweeping planes. I grew up

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Speaker 1: on that country. My people were shot on that country.

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Speaker 1: I know your speech of by heart. Yes, But what

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you is when you came back

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Speaker 1: from twenty years overseas, had anything changed in your eyes

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Speaker 1: in terms of you know the situation.

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Speaker 4: That's a really good question, because I think in many

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Speaker 4: ways i'd changed. You know, I'd been away from Australia

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Speaker 4: for twenty years. I lived in London, New York, Hong Kong, Beijing,

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Speaker 4: Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Islamabad, Baghdad, Jerusalem, and I'd reported from

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Speaker 4: more than eighty countries, and I got to experience Australia

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Speaker 4: outside of Australia. I got to experience living as a

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Speaker 4: human being in the world in a way that I'd

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Speaker 4: never been able to experience my own country. In Australia,

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Speaker 4: I always felt as if this was not a place

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Speaker 4: that I could belong. And it was only looking back

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Speaker 4: at Australia that I was able to find a language

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Speaker 4: to imagine and be able to speak my country to myself,

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Speaker 4: if that makes sense. I found Australia by not being

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Speaker 4: in Australia. So when I came back, I looked at

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Speaker 4: this country again with new eyes. It wasn't the eyes

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Speaker 4: of a Worrajurie boy growing up on the inside of

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Speaker 4: this country, always feeling other people staring at us. I

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Speaker 4: could look back at this country now and see it

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Speaker 4: very clearly. If I had spent all my time in

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Speaker 4: the Middle East, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Pakistan, in China.

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Speaker 4: If I'd looked at people suffering in other parts of

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Speaker 4: the world and I came back to this country, which

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Speaker 4: tells the world that we're a democracy, and we're free,

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Speaker 4: and we're prosperous, and we're tolerant and we're multicultural, I

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Speaker 4: then have to ask myself, why are we failing my people?

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Speaker 4: If Australia is all of those things? Why do my

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Speaker 4: people die young? Why do my people locked up in

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Speaker 4: the numbers that we're locked up in. Why do our

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Speaker 4: kids not have a chance. So, on the one hand,

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Speaker 4: Australia may be able to measure some improvement.

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Speaker 3: We're sitting here today.

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Speaker 4: There are more Aboriginal university graduates, more Aboriginal politicians, more

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Speaker 4: Aboriginal businesses, but what.

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Speaker 3: Has actually changed very little structurally.

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Speaker 4: So when I came to give that speech, wanted to

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Speaker 4: take the dream of Australia, the idea of Australia, and

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Speaker 4: turn that on its head and say what does it

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Speaker 4: look like when you come from the other side of

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Speaker 4: the dream and living outside of this country gave me

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Speaker 4: the words, the language, and the vision.

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Speaker 3: To be able to see this country more clearly.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely love the way you describe this country. And

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Speaker 1: I am speaking on behalf of thousands of peoples that

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Speaker 1: have done Black Card training that they say that you

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Speaker 1: just your words.

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Speaker 2: Are so eloquent.

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Speaker 1: You're getting across a very important message, but in a

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Speaker 1: very eloquently way that makes and I've seen it from

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Speaker 1: my own eyes, makes.

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Speaker 2: Grown men cry. So it's touching.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what you wanted to do, is

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Speaker 1: you wanted to get people to.

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Speaker 4: Feel first and foremost Mandanara. Our people are people of love.

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Speaker 4: You don't survive in this country for tens of thousands

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Speaker 4: of years, forever, as long as humanity has existed on

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Speaker 4: this land, it has been us. You don't survive here

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Speaker 4: forever without love. Our people don't survive two hundred years

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Speaker 4: of invasion and colonization and suffering without love. Our people

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Speaker 4: could not find the strength to go on and to

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Speaker 4: fight for a better Australia without love. Our people have

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Speaker 4: loved Australians when they have not had love for us.

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Speaker 4: So everything I speak comes from a position of love.

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Speaker 4: We have a word in Warajurijinjamara Jinjamara means respect, but

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Speaker 4: It means to respect even when those don't respect you.

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Speaker 3: It means the respect that comes from.

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Speaker 4: Knowing where you are, the country that you are from,

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Speaker 4: what is given birth to us, our relationship with God,

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Speaker 4: our relationship with our land, our relationship with our ancestors.

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Speaker 4: If we know who we are, if we know where

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Speaker 4: we are, we have the ability to build a better country.

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Speaker 4: So people often hear us speak these words and speak

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Speaker 4: these hard truths and become very defensive. They want to

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Speaker 4: block these things out. They want to accuse us of

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Speaker 4: attacking Australia. Nothing could be further from the truth. James Bordwin,

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Speaker 4: the great black American writer, said, I love America so much.

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Speaker 4: That's why I have the right to criticize it. I

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Speaker 4: love this country so much that I have the right

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Speaker 4: to criticize it.

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Speaker 1: And by criticizing and writing books, it has also cost

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Speaker 1: what hasn't cost you your career. You've chosen to walk

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Speaker 1: away from a job that I could see watching intense.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I think I could never do that as a job.

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Speaker 1: But I heard a lot of people say that you

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Speaker 1: are the best hosts on Q and A, And before

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Speaker 1: you know it, you're not there.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're not on that show, but We've still got you.

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Speaker 1: And that's something that I've been thinking about a lot lately.

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Speaker 1: Is Yeah, going home. I heard you've gone back home

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Speaker 1: to be a country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what have you been up to?

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Speaker 1: We haven't seen you, but what have you been up to?

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Speaker 1: And is there anything that you want to share with

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Speaker 1: our listeners and viewers.

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Speaker 4: I've been reading and thinking and writing a lot. I've

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Speaker 4: been back on my country a lot. I've been spending

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Speaker 4: time with my family. I've been surrounding myself with my people.

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Speaker 4: I've been surrounding myself with people of love. I've been

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Speaker 4: surrounding myself with people who support me. We have the

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Speaker 4: right to say no. We have the right to say

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Speaker 4: no to the abuse that we receive. We have the

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Speaker 4: right to say no, I will not participate in this.

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Speaker 4: And we have the right to be who we are,

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Speaker 4: to be who we.

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Speaker 3: Are in this country.

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Speaker 4: And I've been reclaiming that, reclaiming the right to be

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Speaker 4: who I am.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've spent forty years in journalism.

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Speaker 4: Having to be something else, having to live in a

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Speaker 4: world and work in a business that was not designed

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Speaker 4: for me, for us. There were no other Aboriginal people

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Speaker 4: when I came into the newsroom. There were no other

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Speaker 4: Aboriginal people working in Parliament House when I worked there

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Speaker 4: as a political reporter. When I went overseas as a

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Speaker 4: foreign correspondent, there were no Aboriginal people.

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Speaker 3: But I carried with me my own people.

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Speaker 4: I carried with me your father Tiger, who busted down

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Speaker 4: the doors and took our voices onto the airwaves. I

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Speaker 4: took the people like John Ufong and Aboriginal journalists who

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Speaker 4: wrote for the Australian.

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Speaker 3: Newspaper when there was no one else doing that.

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Speaker 4: You know, I have struggled to carve out a place

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Speaker 4: for myself, but I had to also accept that sometimes

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Speaker 4: in spite of all the effort, in spite of all

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Speaker 4: the hard work, in spite of all the success, sometimes

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Speaker 4: it's still not a place for us. And the media

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Speaker 4: right now is not a place for me. And I

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Speaker 4: don't want to participate in a media that can do

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Speaker 4: so much damage to us and repeatedly does damage to

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Speaker 4: our people. I want to imagine a media that can

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Speaker 4: build a better country, not tear down the country, that

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Speaker 4: can bring.

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Speaker 3: People together, not keep people apart. And that's what I

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Speaker 3: want to work towards.

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Speaker 4: If I work in the media in the future, it

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Speaker 4: will be to build things, not to bring things down.

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Speaker 1: I want to end on a really positive note and say,

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Speaker 1: for a lot of our mob that are still working

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Speaker 1: in mainstream media, as the only Aboriginal or touch on

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Speaker 1: a person in those newsrooms, what would you say to them?

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Speaker 1: They're still there, they haven't given up. What would some

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Speaker 1: of your advice be to them, because you've had forty

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Speaker 1: years at it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, my advice would be to know that

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Speaker 4: it's hard. It is always going to be hard. I

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Speaker 4: don't need to tell you Mondanara. You know how hard

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Speaker 4: it can be. You know the struggle of your parents.

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Speaker 4: You know the struggle of your grandparents and your great grandparents,

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Speaker 4: the struggle of your family, the struggle to build your business,

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Speaker 4: and you have worked to make not just our community better,

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Speaker 4: but our country better, our country better. It's hard and

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Speaker 4: it's always going to be hard. We have to be

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Speaker 4: not just twice as good, but ten times as good.

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Speaker 3: I decided when I came.

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Speaker 4: Into journalism that I would work harder, arrive earlier, stay later,

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Speaker 4: read more. I would be better than everybody else. I

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Speaker 4: would not fail because of a lack of effort. I

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Speaker 4: would not because of a lack of determination. And I

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Speaker 4: would every day count my blessings that I am where

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Speaker 4: my ancestors have put me. So I would say to people,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be tough, but we come from tough

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Speaker 4: people and we can tough it out. And to remember this,

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Speaker 4: there is always a place for us and always a

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Speaker 4: place for.

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Speaker 3: Us to be us.

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Speaker 4: Don't sacrifice who you are for someone else's idea of success.

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Speaker 4: I have always, always, always strive to be who I am.

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Speaker 4: When I was in New York, I was a borrajury person.

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Speaker 4: When I was in London, I was a b rajury person.

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Speaker 4: When I was in Jerusalem or Beijing or Islamabad or

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Speaker 4: Pyeongyang or Soul or Tokyo or any of the places

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Speaker 4: that I've lived and worked, I've been a birajury person.

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Speaker 4: We have the right to be who we are in

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Speaker 4: the world.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, if that's not the best way to

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Speaker 1: finish our yarn, I just want to say Stan, and

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Speaker 1: I've said it to you many many times, but thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for still being here, for still

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Speaker 1: being deadly, for still inspiring our mob to be the

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Speaker 1: best that we can be. And just in terms of

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Speaker 1: this country. This country is a better country because people

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Speaker 1: like you that write books and criticize it and speak

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Speaker 1: about it. You keep doing what you do, and I

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Speaker 1: can tell you now I hope that my children and

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Speaker 1: your grandchildren live in a much more united and reconciled Australia.

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 4: And here I just say, you know, I want to

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Speaker 4: say thank you to all of our orders.

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Speaker 3: I want to say thank you to my parents.

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Speaker 4: I want to say thank you to my grandparents and

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Speaker 4: great grandparents and those people who have sacrificed so much

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Speaker 4: for us to be here. And I want to say

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Speaker 4: thank you to you for all that you do, and

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Speaker 4: thank you to your family for all your family has

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Speaker 4: done in never flinching, never flinching from the five.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you sir.

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Speaker 1: What an amazing, what an amazing opportunity for us to

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Speaker 1: be sitting here in this room, to have you for

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Speaker 1: an extra half hour, but also for our listeners and

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Speaker 1: viewers of Black Magical, my podcast. I know that you've

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Speaker 1: been in for a treat, so I hope you've enjoyed

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Speaker 1: this episode.

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Speaker 2: Until next time, Bye for now.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like any more info on today's guest, please

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Speaker 1: visit our show notes in the episode description, A big

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Speaker 1: shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who

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Speaker 1: continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.

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Speaker 2: Your feedback means the world.

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Speaker 1: You can rate and review the podcast us on Apple

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Speaker 1: and Spotify, or even head to our socials and YouTube

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Speaker 1: channel and drop us a line.

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Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis.