Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud or
Speaker 1: the Order Kerni Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And before
Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 4: that translates government budgets into information that you are actually
Speaker 4: going to be able to understand. If you felt like
Speaker 4: you need a politics degree just to understand if the
Speaker 4: budget this year is good or bad, or you're sitting
Speaker 4: there like, wait, what is a structural deficit? And why
Speaker 4: should I even care? Or maybe you're just wondering cool,
Speaker 4: but does any of this actually help me or benefit me?
Speaker 4: My friend, you are in exactly the right place. I'm
Speaker 4: Victoria Devine, the one that's here to ask the real questions,
Speaker 4: cut through the spin and make this budget makes sense
Speaker 4: for real life. And today, which is actually the day
Speaker 4: after the big budget announcement, I'm doing a very special
Speaker 4: recording from Parliament House in Canberra. But I'm not doing
Speaker 4: it alone, which would be a little bit sad. I
Speaker 4: am joined by someone who helped shape this year's federal
Speaker 4: budget from the inside. Senator Katie Gallagher is the Minister
Speaker 4: for Finance and the Minister for Women, and she's here
Speaker 4: to chat with us about what made it into the budget,
Speaker 4: what didn't make it and what it actually means to you. Katie,
Speaker 4: welcome to She's on the money. Thank you so much
Speaker 4: for having me on. It's very exciting. It is, honestly
Speaker 4: for me career highlight. Guys, I'm in parliament. Baby Victoria
Speaker 4: would be shaking.
Speaker 2: In her boots right now.
Speaker 4: First of all, I'm just going to start this off
Speaker 4: assuming that a lot of my community haven't dipped their
Speaker 4: toes in the political waters yet. And I have seen
Speaker 4: questions in my community of Victoria. What's the difference between
Speaker 4: the Minister of Finance and the treasurer, How does that
Speaker 4: relationship work and what are the different roles.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's a great question. Really Jim and I.
Speaker 5: So, Jim Chalmers is the Treasurer, I'm the finance minister.
Speaker 5: We work very closely together on all matters relating to
Speaker 5: the budget, but really on all matters relating to economic
Speaker 5: policy as well. But if I could sort of simplify
Speaker 5: it down, I think really Jim is the lead economic minister.
Speaker 5: He's in charge of economic policy across the country, revenue,
Speaker 5: all those big kind of nationally important things. And I'm
Speaker 5: responsible for the money, like where's the money coming from?
Speaker 5: Where are the savings? More of like the accounting book
Speaker 5: keeper part of the business. So are you in a
Speaker 5: nitty gritty I am like, I'm gettings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in the one. I want that role. I
Speaker 2: don't want to be treasurer. I want to be nosy.
Speaker 2: I know, well the.
Speaker 5: Treasure has a lot of responsibilities. He's busy, but he
Speaker 5: can be nosy and give him the highlight I can
Speaker 5: and love. They have my fingers really in every single
Speaker 5: thing that happens across government. So I know what's happening
Speaker 5: in other minister's portfolios. I know what policy is being
Speaker 5: developed up. Yeah, it's a very interesting role, but I'm
Speaker 5: kind of yeah, it really suits my personality, which is
Speaker 5: naturally nosy.
Speaker 4: O me too, like I don't want to be part
Speaker 4: of the drama or the gossip, but I actually would
Speaker 4: really like to know what's going on, just committing me
Speaker 4: in the loop, Like if you give me a budget
Speaker 4: or a spreadsheet, I will do a little bit of
Speaker 4: a nosey into what that means and how that works.
Speaker 4: You are also, in addition to being the Minister for Finance,
Speaker 4: you are the Minister for Women, which I think is
Speaker 4: so special and so cool. But let's wrap it back
Speaker 4: to the budget. Was this a good budget for women?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 5: You know, we've worked hard on it. There's some really
Speaker 5: good and important big announcements for women, but it shouldn't
Speaker 5: be seen in isolation of the other three budgets we've
Speaker 5: done where we've tried to shift the dial for women
Speaker 5: as well. I think, you know, like for the last decade,
Speaker 5: really I feel like women's policy had really been a
Speaker 5: bit more of an afterthought. It wasn't kind of central
Speaker 5: at the table, kind of a front of mind. And
Speaker 5: you know, putting me as Finance Minister and Minister for
Speaker 5: Women means the Minister for Women is at every kind
Speaker 5: of decision of the budget and that helps, plus helps
Speaker 5: having a PM who wanted me in that role because
Speaker 5: he wanted women's policy right at the front and center
Speaker 5: of And it helps enormously to have a Treasurer who
Speaker 5: doesn't need convincing that women's economic equality, you know, getting
Speaker 5: a fair deal for women is actually a national economic priority,
Speaker 5: like it's good for the economy, and so I don't
Speaker 5: have to convince anyone on that, and that's made a
Speaker 5: big difference.
Speaker 2: To what we can pull off.
Speaker 4: And I feel like that is obvious, Like I feel
Speaker 4: like you have had so much pull and have I guess,
Speaker 4: garnered so much respect for that because it's obvious there's
Speaker 4: a team. It's obvious that people are backing you to
Speaker 4: go through this and you're not having to fight to
Speaker 4: go No, do you know that this is also important?
Speaker 4: And I, as a female or seeing that this year's
Speaker 4: budget has had to walk, I would say a fine
Speaker 4: line between helping people and then making sure we're not
Speaker 4: fueling inflation. How in your role, how do you actually
Speaker 4: make that balance work? How are you looking at inflation
Speaker 4: but then also going oh, honestly, we're in the middle
Speaker 4: of a cost of living crisis, and we want to
Speaker 4: help people, but sometimes too much help actually sends it
Speaker 4: the wrong way. Yeah, and I think part of the
Speaker 4: challenge for people has been, like in the GFC and
Speaker 4: in COVID, when there was sort of an economic crisis
Speaker 4: or you know, something that we needed to a shock,
Speaker 4: an economic shock, the response was to hand out money,
Speaker 4: so we got money to keep the stimulate the economy.
Speaker 4: The issue with the inflation shock is that.
Speaker 2: It's the opposite response.
Speaker 5: You've got to work out how to calm down demand
Speaker 5: in the economy, and I think that's been part of
Speaker 5: our challenge is you know, people saying, well, I'm under
Speaker 5: a lot of pressure. What are you doing for me now?
Speaker 5: And why aren't I getting the support that perhaps I
Speaker 5: got in the GFC, etc. You're right, it's a real
Speaker 5: balance and we've had to find ways to help people.
Speaker 5: But doesn't add to the inflation challenge. So it's not
Speaker 5: simply like sending a check out in the mail or
Speaker 5: something like that, which happened in the GFC.
Speaker 2: It's more about Okay.
Speaker 5: Well, let's take some pressure off your energy bill so
Speaker 5: you're not out with more money in your pocket. But
Speaker 5: it's reducing your costs in another away. And so you know,
Speaker 5: we've made a lot of progress on inflation. It's come
Speaker 5: back towards ben In this budget it shows that it's
Speaker 5: coming back in sustainably into the normal range six months earlier,
Speaker 5: which is really good news. But we also recognize people
Speaker 5: still under pressure, and that's why we have to try
Speaker 5: and find ways to help. Yeah, and I think a
Speaker 5: lot of people don't understand that balance. They go, well,
Speaker 5: why aren't they throwing more at this? You really have
Speaker 5: to step back and look at the bigger picture or
Speaker 5: the bigger umbrella to be able to understand. Okay, well,
Speaker 5: if we actually just lined your pockets like we did
Speaker 5: in the GFC, we're actually stimulating the economy, and a
Speaker 5: growing economy means inflation is going to increase the cost
Speaker 5: of eggs. And like, it all comes back to that
Speaker 5: and goes all right, well we could help you here,
Speaker 5: and I love that you're like, Okay, well, let's look
Speaker 5: at the energy bill side of things.
Speaker 4: Let's actually take the pressure off while not hopefully stimulating
Speaker 4: the economy in that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I feel like there's been a lot of commentary, as
Speaker 4: there always is when a budget happens, right.
Speaker 2: I think the budget is exciting, but the.
Speaker 4: Day after the budget is more exciting because all of
Speaker 4: the commentary comes out, all of the articles are online.
Speaker 4: Every man in his dog has an opinion. Yes they do,
Speaker 4: and I love it. Again, I'm nosy, so I'm reading
Speaker 4: and devouring absolutely every part of it. In your view,
Speaker 4: what was this year's most misunderstood part of the budget?
Speaker 5: Well, to be honest, I have not even had time
Speaker 5: to read much about what people are saying about the budget.
Speaker 2: I had a whole flight here. I come up later.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because, like you say, actually budget days more controlled
Speaker 5: for us, Like because we've got the lock up, We've
Speaker 5: got the set press conference, then the budget speech in
Speaker 5: the evening, and then we do a few late press conferences.
Speaker 5: But not a lot of people have read the detail.
Speaker 5: But come Wednesday, yeah, everything's unleashed people, you know, stakeholders
Speaker 5: are having their two cents worth, Economists are out with
Speaker 5: all the big answers usually and a lot of free advice.
Speaker 5: What's been the most misunderstood? Well, I think think for us,
Speaker 5: you know, we feel very strongly Jim and I that
Speaker 5: we've put together a budget that's right for the times.
Speaker 5: Like right for the economy, and our thinking has been
Speaker 5: about that, not about politics. And I think there's been
Speaker 5: from what I've seen, a lot of commentary saying, oh,
Speaker 5: this is just a political budget, you know, to get
Speaker 5: to the other side.
Speaker 2: Of an election, because we're on the eve of an election.
Speaker 5: And I know from the sort of tens of loads
Speaker 5: of hours that we've sat in the ERC room that's
Speaker 5: not the case. Like we look at all what's happening
Speaker 5: in the economy, where are the areas of pressure, how
Speaker 5: can the government help, And we've made decisions we think
Speaker 5: in the national interests. But I think there's a lot
Speaker 5: of cynicism about politicians and politics and motivation. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I really think that if this wasn't an election year,
Speaker 5: we would still be handing down this budget.
Speaker 4: That's good to hear because I feel like so much
Speaker 4: of the narrative is, oh, it's a political budget. They're
Speaker 4: going to announce it in the next six weeks, so
Speaker 4: they're trying to appease everybody, and you just go that
Speaker 4: actually wouldn't help their narrative. Let's say it comes back
Speaker 4: in and labor stays in. It actually doesn't help to
Speaker 4: just be political and say all these things that kept
Speaker 4: you in because you're going to be held to those
Speaker 4: standards as.
Speaker 5: Well, right, yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean this is a
Speaker 5: priority for the next twelve months, not for the next
Speaker 5: six weeks. And I think governments have a responsibility to
Speaker 5: make decisions. Every decision we make is in the nation's interests,
Speaker 5: regardless of whether you've voted for.
Speaker 2: Us or not.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, we're responsible, and we've tried to
Speaker 5: do our best. I think, as you say, kind of
Speaker 5: navigating that inflationary environment with really sensible and good and
Speaker 5: responsible assistance to help people, like medicare like hex step relief,
Speaker 5: cheaper medicines, like putting it all of that out in
Speaker 5: a way that doesn't put cash in people's pockets and
Speaker 5: fuels the inflation challenge, because in the long run, that
Speaker 5: makes everybody poorer. And that was the real challenge I
Speaker 5: think we've dealt with the last three years.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: The privilege of interviewing lots of people in business, and
Speaker 4: I was having a beautiful conversation with someone this morning
Speaker 4: about how sometimes when you get to a certain level
Speaker 4: in business or in politics, people stop seeing you as
Speaker 4: human and think that maybe you are this all magical
Speaker 4: beast that somehow knows absolutely everything. I would see that
Speaker 4: as a pretty big responsibility, right, Like I would feel
Speaker 4: like the weight of the world was on my shoulders.
Speaker 2: Yes, like that is a lot.
Speaker 4: How do you from a more personal perspective, how do
Speaker 4: you deal with that? Because I'm in awe. I'm like,
Speaker 4: this woman is the coolest, Like she is the Minister
Speaker 4: for Finance, not only that, the Minister for women. I
Speaker 4: think that there has been so much done, but then
Speaker 4: people are vocal. That would be really hard. I get
Speaker 4: one Instagram message if someone saying that my hair doesn't
Speaker 4: look good, and I'm like, oh, maybe I'll cry under
Speaker 4: the table. How are you dealing with not just commentary,
Speaker 4: but knowing that that is a big responsibility. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think that's been a really big adjustment for me
Speaker 5: into this role. Really felt it, and I think it's
Speaker 5: probably I sort of take the mystery away from it.
Speaker 5: It's like every job. I think when you come into
Speaker 5: a new job, you feel the weight of the responsibility.
Speaker 5: You don't want to mess up. There's things that you
Speaker 5: didn't know about the job that all of a sudden
Speaker 5: are part of the job, and over time you adjust
Speaker 5: to that and you get better at it, and so
Speaker 5: I feel like, you know, when people go, you know,
Speaker 5: tell me what your job's like, I feel like saying
Speaker 5: to them what it's probably very like yours. You know,
Speaker 5: every prosice, there's planning, there's teams to work with, deadlines
Speaker 5: to meet.
Speaker 2: I'd have time for lunch, exactly.
Speaker 5: And I think mine's a little bit different and it's
Speaker 5: more public and more contested at times, but other than that,
Speaker 5: it is like every other job. And I am like
Speaker 5: every other woman going to work. I've got kids at home,
Speaker 5: I've got a dog that needs walking, I need groceries
Speaker 5: that need buying. You know, I have the same anxieties
Speaker 5: as everyone else. You have to push away imposter syndrome
Speaker 5: and think, oh my god, am I really up to this?
Speaker 4: You're telling me at this level you still have imposter syndrome.
Speaker 4: I think everybody else is in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 5: And I'm much better at it than when I was
Speaker 5: younger in my career, where I really kind of was
Speaker 5: looking around going does everyone know that I'm here and
Speaker 5: responsible for things? Whereas I'm much better now. You learn
Speaker 5: that as you get older, But I still feel like,
Speaker 5: you know, I guess For me, it's part of taking
Speaker 5: the job seriously, not thinking that I've got all the answers,
Speaker 5: being open to advice, being careful and thoughtful about how
Speaker 5: you make decisions. But it's not a job for everyone.
Speaker 5: I don't think and on the social media stuff, I
Speaker 5: just don't look at it because or when I do,
Speaker 5: I delve in and then I'm like wow, I'll straight
Speaker 5: back out again, like okay, because one I feel like
Speaker 5: engaging with people and going that is totally not true
Speaker 5: and there's no point.
Speaker 2: There is no points, So.
Speaker 4: You can't change the opinion of somebody who's already decided
Speaker 4: what theirs is and is quite adamant with that, and
Speaker 4: that's okay with that is a hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 4: Let's get back to the questions, because I could talk
Speaker 4: about stuff like that for ages. This budget has a
Speaker 4: twenty seven point six million dollar deficit, and there's lots
Speaker 4: of commentary.
Speaker 2: I'm telling it.
Speaker 4: We can talk about it later, but there's lots of
Speaker 4: commentary in the media about this and the government's forecasting
Speaker 4: more for years to come. For our community, who is
Speaker 4: sitting there trying to budget for their own lives, that
Speaker 4: honestly sounds quite scary like billions. What do you mean
Speaker 4: even a million is out of reach? Can you explain
Speaker 4: why a deficit in government spending might actually be okay? Yeah, so,
Speaker 4: I mean this is part of my job to try
Speaker 4: and explain this. And there's a lot of you know,
Speaker 4: obviously this is a contested political environment, so there's a
Speaker 4: lot of oh my god, there's deficits and the rest
Speaker 4: of it. It's important to use the budget to support
Speaker 4: the economy at different times, and so particularly coming through COVID,
Speaker 4: the former government really lean in and borrowed a lot
Speaker 4: of money to try and get people through through job
Speaker 4: Keeper and other big payments like that. And what that
Speaker 4: did to the budget was it forced the budget into
Speaker 4: a pretty significant deficit. And it's important that you do
Speaker 4: that because we actually avoided a recession. People maintain their jobs,
Speaker 4: people were supported with social security payments. The media doesn't
Speaker 4: like that part though, No, they don't know, they don't
Speaker 4: like mind.
Speaker 2: It's not as exciting to talk about, that's right. But
Speaker 2: if you didn't do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we would be in trouble because that government made
Speaker 4: us go into a recession. Yes, so you're not going
Speaker 4: to win here. I'm so sorry to.
Speaker 5: It, you know, well, I feel like part of my
Speaker 5: job is to tell a broader story, to say the
Speaker 5: budget needs to lean in when government investment is needed,
Speaker 5: and then as you get through an economic shock, the
Speaker 5: private sector returns, usually because they withdraw during economic shocks.
Speaker 5: They return and they take over their rightful place in
Speaker 5: the economy. And the government can withdraw and not entirely
Speaker 5: because we pay, you know, all those payments to families
Speaker 5: and childcare subsidies and all our investments in other areas
Speaker 5: as well, but it means you don't have to lean
Speaker 5: in as heavily and you can take a step back,
Speaker 5: and then you can repair the budget, which is what
Speaker 5: we've been doing over this term where we've got more
Speaker 5: revenue coming in than expected, we pay down debt, we
Speaker 5: lower the deficits, and that's what we've been doing. But
Speaker 5: you can't just flick the switch off, because if you
Speaker 5: tried to get into surplus immediately, and we have delivered
Speaker 5: two surpluses because we got more revenue and employment remained
Speaker 5: really strong, so we were able to deliver those, but
Speaker 5: going forward it would mean some pretty significant cuts that
Speaker 5: people would really feel right now. And so it's sort
Speaker 5: of my calm, methodical approach. We repair the budget over
Speaker 5: time and you bring the budget back into balance, and
Speaker 5: that's completely appropriate and really part of pretty standard economic theory. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I was explaining it in more I guess relatable terms
Speaker 5: to someone.
Speaker 2: Is that not the other day?
Speaker 4: No, it totally was relatable, But I was trying to like, go,
Speaker 4: we've got good debt and we've got bad debt, and
Speaker 4: sometimes we have to take on some bad debt to
Speaker 4: actually project ourselves forward, Like sometimes we have to take
Speaker 4: a step back and get a mortgage because we don't
Speaker 4: have the amount to purchase in full.
Speaker 2: Nobody does.
Speaker 4: But sometimes we need funding and the deficit is kind
Speaker 4: of like, all right, well we can't afford house, but
Speaker 4: we really need this and we're going through this process.
Speaker 4: And I think that just understanding that a deficit doesn't
Speaker 4: mean that you're going to be in deficit forever. No,
Speaker 4: there's strategy, there's planning. I think it makes me feel
Speaker 4: a lot lighter about it. I go, oh, okay, so
Speaker 4: we're not absolutely burying the economy. It's actually strategic and
Speaker 4: there was a reason for this.
Speaker 5: That's right, And you can't just spend irresponsibly and go
Speaker 5: who cares.
Speaker 2: You know who cares about the bottom line? We do,
Speaker 2: We totally do.
Speaker 5: But you've got to be kind of practical about the
Speaker 5: expectations of what you're going to fund and how you
Speaker 5: fund it. And the other thing I'd say is you've
Speaker 5: got to look at the Commonwealth has a lot of
Speaker 5: assets as well, like we've got a very good balance
Speaker 5: sheet from which to borrow against and debt for us
Speaker 5: is come a pretty low interest rates and things like that,
Speaker 5: and we can deliver other outcomes by borrowing to invest
Speaker 5: in things. And that's your good dip bad tinker on
Speaker 5: the same page about that, I do like the concept
Speaker 5: of investing. I've heard that Katie.
Speaker 4: We're going to go to a really quick break, but
Speaker 4: guys stick around because when we come back, we're going
Speaker 4: to get into the stuff that hits a.
Speaker 2: Little bit closer to home.
Speaker 4: Tax cuts, we're going to touch on grocery bills, energy rebates,
Speaker 4: and whether this budget actually is going to give you
Speaker 4: any breathing room. Don't go anywhere, Welcome back. We're here
Speaker 4: at Parliament House with Senator Katie Gallagher, the Minister for
Speaker 4: Finance and the Minister for Women, and we're going to
Speaker 4: dive into a few things parts of the budget that
Speaker 4: the community really want to understand. But Katie, in the
Speaker 4: middle of the break, you were like, I want to
Speaker 4: talk a little bit more about women's health.
Speaker 2: I'm really passionate about it. Let's do that.
Speaker 4: I mean you were touching on it before. I feel
Speaker 4: like we moved off it. Talk to me a little
Speaker 4: bit more about women's health and why it is so important. Yeah, well,
Speaker 4: this is a really big part of this budget. So
Speaker 4: each budget we've been trying to work through priorities for women,
Speaker 4: so women's wages, women in work, early education, and care,
Speaker 4: age care, all those kind of areas, and we keep
Speaker 4: doing that. But Jed Karney, who's the one of the
Speaker 4: Assistant Ministers for Health, has done this huge piece of
Speaker 4: work looking at how the health system works for women
Speaker 4: or doesn't work for women, and she found through her
Speaker 4: work some really you know, amazing things like the no
Speaker 4: oral contraceptive pill had been listed on the PBS for
Speaker 4: the last three decades, none of the new menopause treatments
Speaker 4: had been listed on PBS, and women were paying out
Speaker 4: a pocket because you know, many of those treatments are
Speaker 4: better for you, have less side effects. It makes sense yeah,
Speaker 4: and so like this is part of having women involved
Speaker 4: in politics. When you have enough women involved in politics,
Speaker 4: things like contraception, menopause, endometriosis, pelvic pain, IVF all those
Speaker 4: things start being considered as priorities. And this budget deals
Speaker 4: with all of those in a pretty comprehensive way. Lists
Speaker 4: all the new some of the new medications like Slender
Speaker 4: for the oral contraceptive pill, and a lot of new
Speaker 4: menopause treatment for women of my age going through that,
Speaker 4: and also training up and helping healthcare professionals actually treat women,
Speaker 4: you know, making sure the NBS allows doctors to insert
Speaker 4: IUDs without women paying those huge out.
Speaker 2: Of pocket costs. It's wild.
Speaker 5: All of that it's in this budget, and it's a
Speaker 5: big investment, almost eight hundred million dollars it costs. But
Speaker 5: the health system, because you know there hasn't been a
Speaker 5: lot of women in politics, has gone under recognized for
Speaker 5: too long, and you know, this budget fixes that and
Speaker 5: so hopefully women will be saving hundreds of dollars.
Speaker 4: Now, I have a question that's sidelining that it's on
Speaker 4: the same track. And you've probably heard this from a
Speaker 4: plethora of women before, but so many women go to
Speaker 4: the doctor and then have their pain or their symptoms dismissed.
Speaker 4: They go and obviously it is so fantastic to have
Speaker 4: more funding, but you know, is funding enough to get
Speaker 4: doctors and healthcare providers to start taking women's issues seriously? Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's I mean, that's a different size, right, Yeah, And
Speaker 4: it's so many of us that have gone shocks have
Speaker 4: been patted on the head and told well, yeah, no
Speaker 4: neurofen and lie down, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2: So this, yes, it does. It has a component here.
Speaker 5: One of the elements which Jed started and we're building
Speaker 5: on it is these indo and pelvic pain clinics which
Speaker 5: are actually staffed by specialist gps who are aware. You know,
Speaker 5: I visited one, I think in Melbourne and it was
Speaker 5: amazing just talking to the doctors, talking the women who
Speaker 5: use the service, the kind of care that they are getting,
Speaker 5: the recognition that their pain is not in their head,
Speaker 5: and also that they're something that you can do about it.
Speaker 5: Even changing your diet can help people who.
Speaker 4: Don't know if you haven't got access to those doctors exactly. So,
Speaker 4: you know, simple changes that can be made for more
Speaker 4: complex people. You know, you might be a referral to
Speaker 4: a specialist whatever. So we're opening some more of those
Speaker 4: and I just think they'll become a feature of the
Speaker 4: health landscape.
Speaker 2: As it should.
Speaker 4: And like you're the Minister for Women, I don't have
Speaker 4: to convince you, but I'm just in the background cheering
Speaker 4: you on, being like, yes, Queen, that is exactly what
Speaker 4: we want to see. I'm going to pivot because I
Speaker 4: know that they don't have a heap of time left
Speaker 4: with you. In the Treasurer's speech, he mentioned that we
Speaker 4: are going to be putting some more accountability onto supermarkets
Speaker 4: when it comes to the cost of living and the
Speaker 4: cost of groceries, which I know is going to appeal
Speaker 4: to my community because I think that's where most of
Speaker 4: us are starting to tap our cards and feel the pain.
Speaker 2: Right, So that sounds.
Speaker 4: Great, but how does that actually translate to dollars at
Speaker 4: the checkout? When are people going to start to feel
Speaker 4: the impacts of this budget and the conversations that are
Speaker 4: being had at the checkout?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: No, I completely understand that. I do the shopping in
Speaker 5: my household too, and sometimes you just go what when
Speaker 5: you look at a price of something in the supermarket. So,
Speaker 5: particularly over the last couple of years I reckon. So
Speaker 5: a couple of things there. The HBLEC has done a
Speaker 5: piece of work. It's found that we've got a highly
Speaker 5: concentrated grocery market, so we have the two big players.
Speaker 5: We'd like more competition, so there's some effort going in there.
Speaker 5: We've got Aldi and they made a difference when it
Speaker 5: came in, but we need to make the system more
Speaker 5: competitive so that there's other players that feel like that
Speaker 5: they can compete. So part of it's making sure that
Speaker 5: system's right. We've also got this and I know it
Speaker 5: sounds probably doesn't sound real for people when they're going
Speaker 5: around with their trolleys and looking at the prices, but
Speaker 5: there's a mandatory code of conduct being put in place,
Speaker 5: a mandatory food and grocery code which actually sets out
Speaker 5: some pretty clear rules about how supermarkets are to behave.
Speaker 5: We're also attaching multimillion dollar penalties to that. Now there's
Speaker 5: been a voluntary code, but many people who work in
Speaker 5: this space or say voluntary codes never do anything. So
Speaker 5: we've made it mandatory law and we've significantly increased the penalty,
Speaker 5: so it actually if they breach that code not going
Speaker 5: to be a work. Yeah, it's not going to commercially
Speaker 5: work that, and it kind of assists with, you know,
Speaker 5: some of the complaints we've had from farmers who feel
Speaker 5: like that they can't raise a complaint if they're being
Speaker 5: treated badly by one of the supermarkets. They can now
Speaker 5: make an anonymous complaint to the A Triple C and
Speaker 5: have that investigated so they don't have to fear retaliation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've all it's really important.
Speaker 5: Yeah, massively important, because yeah, it's all about power, and
Speaker 5: when you've got a concentrated market, we know where the
Speaker 5: power sits. The other thing I'd say, and it's good
Speaker 5: if people take a look at it. We've funded Choice
Speaker 5: to basically do a series of you know, shopping basket
Speaker 5: assessments and publish that. So where is the cheapest basket
Speaker 5: of goods and who's offering it? And they publish that
Speaker 5: now and it's free for everybody. And I think, you know, again,
Speaker 5: it might not change things overnight, but I think that
Speaker 5: transparency and accountability and consumers have a lot of power
Speaker 5: here too to kind of take the time if they can,
Speaker 5: to work out where they shop and what they shop for.
Speaker 5: And you know, there'll be more to say on this.
Speaker 5: I think because it's not a finished piece of work totally.
Speaker 4: My last question, because I am very aware that we
Speaker 4: are time limited. Labour's said that this budget is about
Speaker 4: responsible spending, and I feel like we're all being very responsible,
Speaker 4: like we are pinching our pennies, which makes total sense
Speaker 4: in an inflation environment.
Speaker 2: But for someone in my community who might be.
Speaker 4: Skipping meals or spending sixty percent of their income on
Speaker 4: their rent, I feel like sometimes that doesn't feel like
Speaker 4: it's enough. How do you define responsibility in that context
Speaker 4: and how do you balance what the economy needs versus
Speaker 4: what the people needs? And I guess that it's very
Speaker 4: nicely back around to what we were saying before, where
Speaker 4: you know, sometimes we can't just put money in your
Speaker 4: pocket because it would grow the economy and that is
Speaker 4: literally the exact opposite of what we want to.
Speaker 2: Occur right now. Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 5: So I think budgets are often seen in isolation, so
Speaker 5: they think, oh, that it's only the new things that
Speaker 5: are funded in this budget, where they actually, you know,
Speaker 5: have money running through the year on year from what
Speaker 5: we did last year to you know, what will happen
Speaker 5: next year. So firstly, I'd say we've tried to look
Speaker 5: at all of the ways that we can help people,
Speaker 5: particularly on low and fixed incomes. You know, for example,
Speaker 5: with renters who have been feeling the pinch. You know,
Speaker 5: part of the issue is the supply of housing, so
Speaker 5: we need to build more houses now that you know,
Speaker 5: for a person right now, they'll say, oh, well, that's
Speaker 5: not going to help me right now. So then it's
Speaker 5: things like rent assistance and increasing rent assistance, which we've
Speaker 5: done in two budgets, So we're trying to come at
Speaker 5: it each way, but without adding to inflation, and that
Speaker 5: has been tricky. The government is a big player in
Speaker 5: the economy. If the government pours a whole lot of
Speaker 5: money into an economy at a time when inflation is high,
Speaker 5: that hurts everyone, but it most hurts though. I was
Speaker 5: on low and fixed incomes who don't have a lot
Speaker 5: of discretionary use of their money. They spend almost all
Speaker 5: of their money just to keep up with living costs. Basically,
Speaker 5: a budget is really about striking that balance and also
Speaker 5: accepting that this is a point in time. In a
Speaker 5: normal year, we finish the budget and we pretty much
Speaker 5: go into what's called the mid year Economic and Fiscal
Speaker 5: update or commonly known as my EFO. If you hear
Speaker 5: that word like, we usually start my EFO maybe three
Speaker 5: weeks after we finished the budget, so it's a continuous process.
Speaker 5: It never finishes and so there's always room for new ideas.
Speaker 4: I love that, Katie. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4: This has been an absolute privilege and getting to sit
Speaker 4: down with you, especially after budget night.
Speaker 2: I am very.
Speaker 4: Grateful because I am absolutely certain that your inbox is
Speaker 4: on fire. I haven't even looked at it may don't
Speaker 4: very right, but thank you for having me on. It's
Speaker 4: so great to be able to try and explain what
Speaker 4: we're doing, what we're up to.
Speaker 2: You are so welcome anytime let me know.
Speaker 4: And that's a wrap on our special budget episode recorded
Speaker 4: right here in Parliament House. A massive thank you to
Speaker 4: Senator Katie Gallagher for sitting down with us, especially after
Speaker 4: budget night when I am absolutely certain that her inbox
Speaker 4: is on fire. So if you're walking away from this
Speaker 4: episode feeling a little bit clearer, a little bit more empowered,
Speaker 4: or even just like someone finally explained what a structural
Speaker 4: death as it actually is.
Speaker 2: My friend, that's a money win.
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