1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Then whenever I had my next meeting with them, I'd 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, hold on, I got a lot of 3 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: things to go through here, and think, bam bam bam, 4 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: bam bam. Go through all the things in that list, 5 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: and we just resolve them so quick because there's real 6 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: time back and forth. Bam bam, bam, bam bam. Probably 7 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: saved many dozens of unscheduled emails per week by just 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: waiting until I got to those next meeting. So that 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: was a great That was a great productivity saver for 10 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: that particular role. 11 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: We all know that email is one of today's biggest 12 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: productivity killers, but do we actually understand why it's so detrimental. Clearly, 13 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: it's not completely useless, or we would have dropped the 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: tool a long time ago. When email first made its 15 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: way into our offices, was a massive time saver because 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: we no longer had to send physical notes to one another, 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: no longer had to wait to talk about certain things 18 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: with certain people in face to face meetings. But like 19 00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: much of modern technology, it's a double edged sword. My 20 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: name is doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy invent him and this 22 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 2: is how I work a show about how to help 23 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: you do your best work. Welcome to the first episode 24 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: of your Favorite Tips. Across ten by sized episodes, I'll 25 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: be sharing tips from some of the world's best thinkers 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: that you, the listeners, have found the most useful. We're 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: covering everything from creating better to do lists to setting 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: more effective boundaries across your time, and you'll be hearing 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: from people like best selling authors Sally Hepworth, Corona Cast 30 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: host and journalist Norman's One, and Google's productivity advisor Laura 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: May Martin. Bey's favorite tip comes from Ruth and she writes, 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: I've been using the two discuss list via the Microsoft 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: to do list app. I have a separate list for 34 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: all my director reports and next level up and when 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: I'm in meetings and something gets raised and I want 36 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: to advise them, I add it to the list with 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: their name on it. Then when you meet with anyone, 38 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: you have a handy list already compiled. It also helps 39 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: me keep engaged in meetings that aren't strictly to topic, 40 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: as I'm monitoring the discussion for points of interest for 41 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: my network. So it was cal Newport, one of my 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: favorite guests who originally shared that tip on the show. 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with Cal, he is a professor 44 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: of computer science at Georgetown University and the best selling 45 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 2: author of books including Deep Work, A World Without Email, 46 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: and Digital Minimalism. Here is Cal talking about the too 47 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: Discuss list in your book. You talk about a column 48 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: in your board that is called to discuss. Can you 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 2: talk a bit more about the two discuss columns? I 50 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 2: found that quite interesting. 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: Oh, that was critical for my director of Graduate Study 52 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: setup because there was a couple people in that role 53 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: that I had to talk two weekly. So there's my 54 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: department chair and there's lots of issues that the department 55 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: chair is the right person to talk to in that role. 56 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: And then also there's a programmed administrator, the graduate program 57 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: administrator with whom I worked, and so we would meet 58 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: a couple times a week usually, and so it was 59 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: sort of a two man job. And what I had 60 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: with this two discuss column is I realized I could 61 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: save a ton of communication if every time I had 62 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: something I needed to ask my department chair or ask 63 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: my program administrator instead of just shooting off an email 64 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: in that moment, which in the moment would give me 65 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of relief. But every one of those 66 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: is a new unscheduled message that's out there, and a 67 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: new unscheduled response that's going to come back, and perhaps 68 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: even a long back and forth chain of unscheduled messages, 69 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: which I learned doing the research for my book is 70 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: productivity poison. I would put it under the two discussed column, 71 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: and I actually had one for each of those two 72 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: different people. Then whenever I had my next meeting with them, 73 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: I'd be like, Okay, hold on, I got a lot 74 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: of things to go through here, and the bam bam, bam, 75 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: bam bam, go through all the things in that list, 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: and we just resolve them so quick. Because as a 77 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: real time back and forth m bam bam, bam bam 78 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: probably saved many dozens of unscheduled emails per week by 79 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: just waiting until I got to those next meeting. So 80 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: that was a great That was a great productivity saver 81 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: for that particular role. 82 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: Would you ever come across things that you're like, no, 83 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: that this is an urgent thing to discuss, or do 84 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: you think that people may be listening going well, when 85 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: I fire off an email to someone I need a 86 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: response now. Do you think that maybe just overestimating what 87 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 2: is urgent and what is not actually that urgent. 88 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: I mean often when people think they need a response now, 89 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: it's because they don't want to keep track of it. 90 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: They say, Okay, I want a response now, because I 91 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: don't know if you're going to answer or not, and 92 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: I can't. I'm not organized enough to keep track of 93 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: Like have I heard back from cal about this? So 94 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: I just I'm going to send you this email and 95 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: just get a response right away so I can take 96 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: this off the things I need to worry about. That's 97 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: usually why people need immediate responses. It's a function of disorganization, 98 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: not an actual function of urgency. Structure solves this proble. 99 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: Base Camp, for example, Jason Fried's company, their subject matter 100 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: experts have office hours. If you have a question for me, 101 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: wait till my office hours. Come to my office hours, 102 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: ask me in my office hours. They worry that people 103 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: want it put up with the delay. I mean some 104 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: of these people only did office hours once a week, 105 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: so you could have up to seven days you had 106 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: to wait before you could ask someone a question. There 107 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: are very few complaints because it turned out urgency was 108 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: not really a big issue here. It's just clarity. So 109 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: if they know, oh, this is how I ask questions 110 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: on Monday mornings, I go there and ask you this question. Okay, 111 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: so I'll just have to wait till Monday and then 112 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: I'll ask you. 113 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 2: Let me. 114 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: People are fine. So again I come back to this 115 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: a lot. Clarity trumps accessibility. We need an urgent response, 116 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: typically not because this actually needs a response right now, 117 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: but because I don't want to keep track of it. 118 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: I must say Cal's two discuss list has been one 119 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: of my favorite tips too. I currently have two main 120 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: two discuss lists, one for my CEO Mish and one 121 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: for my assistant Hannah, and it meets it. When I 122 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 2: have my regular meetings them, I can come armed with 123 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 2: my two discuss list and I'm able to reduce the 124 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: amount of email discussions that I have with both of them. 125 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: As a listener of how I work, you've hopefully picked 126 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: up a few tips on this show to help you 127 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 2: work better. But do you want more? And maybe in 128 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: a book form, because let's face it, books are the 129 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: most awesome thing on the planet. Well, now you can. 130 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: In my new book, time Wise, I uncover a wealth 131 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: of proven strategies that anyone can use to improve their productivity, work, 132 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: and lifestyle. Time Wise brings together all of the gems 133 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: that I've learned from conversations with the world's greatest thinkers, 134 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: including Adam Grant, Dan Pink, Mia Friedman, and Turia Pitt, 135 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: and many many others. Time Wise is launching on July five, 136 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: but you can pre order it now from Amantha dot com. 137 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: And if you pre order time Wise, I have a 138 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 2: couple of bonuses viewed. First, you'll receive an ebook that 139 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: details my top twenty favorite apps and software for being 140 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: time wise with email, calendar, passwords, reading, cooking ideas, and more. 141 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: You will also get a complimentary spot in a webinar 142 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: that I'm running on June twenty nine, where I will 143 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: be sharing the tactics from time Wise that I use 144 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: most often, and also some bonus ones that are not 145 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: in the book that I use and love. Hop onto 146 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 2: Amantha dot com to pre order now. How I Work 147 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios, 148 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: and thank you to Matt Nimba, who does the audio 149 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: mix for every episode and makes everything sound so much 150 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.