1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: It's a Happy Families podcast with doctor Justin Coilson, where 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Luke and Susie parents of three little boys, and this 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: is the podcast for those of us who are time 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: poor parents. 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: But just one answers now. 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 3: As parents, we want to make sure that we give 7 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 3: our children the best opportunities possible, but getting the balanced right. 8 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 3: How much is too much? How little is too little? 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 3: How much do we control? How much do they control? 10 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: So many questions? 11 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 2: I don't have the answer. 12 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: Can I just put my hand up because I do 13 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: have the answers. We control everything, We're in charge suits 14 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: they do what we say. 15 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 3: Well, I think you might be under an illusion, probably true. 16 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 3: Doctor Justin Coolson joins us in the studio and Justin 17 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 3: when it comes to the routine of children, we understand 18 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 3: that the bulk of the structure sits around school time. 19 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 3: But then there's outside of school extracurricular We've got swimming, 20 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: we've got sport, We've got music that they can do. 21 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 3: There's arts and creative activities they can do, gymnastics, clubs 22 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 3: galore that they can all be a part of. But 23 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: how much do we control what they do? How much 24 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 3: do we let them choose what they're involved with and 25 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 3: if they start winging, do we push them to keep going? 26 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: Go? Yes? No, and lots. Okay, this is that's all 27 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: we got time. Sorry, that was just. 28 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: So yes, no and lots. 29 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: That's where we was. I can't remember what the questions were. 30 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: There was too much fun, all right. So so extracurricular 31 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: activities are one of those things that confused parents. They're costly, 32 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: and cost has got to govern some of our decision making. 33 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: I mean, wouldn't it be great if we could all 34 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 2: afford for our children to do whatever they wanted whenever 35 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: they wanted. They can do horse riding, and they can 36 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: play netball, and they can also go and do the 37 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: surf life saving and they can be riding motocross, and 38 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: they can be I don't know, doing a floristry course 39 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: as well. Yes, let's just get them to do everything. Yeah, 40 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: completely well rounded. Yeah, not going to happen. So there's 41 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: a few things that we probably need to consider. The 42 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: first is our budget and our capacity as parents. You know, 43 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: we do not have unlimited time to fairy children around 44 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: the place or put them in ubers to go places, goes. 45 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: We're too busy to take them. And some people Actually, 46 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: I've had a number of parents, particularly in some of 47 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: the I guess the wealthier suburbs, say that they are 48 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: so grateful for extracurricular activities because it gives their children 49 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 2: something to do in the afternoons where they're occupied. They're 50 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: doing something positive. 51 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 3: You know. 52 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: It takes a lot of boxes for those parents who 53 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: want to be seen to be giving their child every opportunity. 54 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: It teaches kids' responsibility. There's research that shows that extracurricular 55 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: stuff helps them to make friends better, and it helps 56 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: them to do better at school. It makes them fitter 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: and stronger, it gets their brain going. There's so many 58 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: pluses to it, but there's also drawbacks. Kids are increasingly 59 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: under pressure to do well at school and now they've 60 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: got to do their piano exams, or they've got to 61 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: be able to show up for the cheer squad recital 62 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 2: thingy on the weekend, or they're in as dedford. There's 63 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: just so much to do and there's pressure on everybody. 64 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 2: So with all that in mind, there's a couple of 65 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: rules to live by. I think that he used for 66 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 2: at least some guiding principles for this Number one. Once 67 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: you've worked out how much money you've got to spend 68 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: on this stuff, or you've begged the grandparents to chip 69 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: in so that their child can be raised in a 70 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: cultured way. The next thing to do is sorry, you've 71 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: worked out how much capacity you've got to do the 72 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: driving around. I think that it's really important that we 73 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: don't try to control this. You know, you hear stories 74 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: like the tiger parent who sits on the piano stool 75 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: next to the child and says, you are going to 76 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: sit here and play it until you play it. 77 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: Right to add that is the tiger you in my head, 78 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: I'm going I'm a taker. 79 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm just doing trank. I think that that's 80 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: not helpful. So we want to be guided by our 81 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: children's interests, but we need to recognize that our children's 82 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: interest ebbs and flows, and they might want to do 83 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: something because all their friends are doing, and then two 84 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: weeks in to a ten week term, they're like, no, 85 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to do this, or it's hard and 86 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: I'm no good at it and everyone is better than 87 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: me and I just look bad. So we've got to 88 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 2: be prepared for that and maybe even talk to the 89 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: kids ahead of time and say you know what you're 90 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: going to do is going to be hard, and set 91 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 2: up your contingencies, work out what the expectation is upfront. 92 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: I don't like when I have to use an example 93 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: of what I've decided, because then you've got a chance 94 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: to say, no, Luke, you're wrong. But I've got a 95 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: guess a process in that dilemma. With our nine year old, 96 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: in particular, he started playing rugby because he chose to 97 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: play rugby where we went with it. He loves rugby, 98 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: but he also has a high interest in AFL and 99 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: Rugby league, and so each year he's going, oh, I 100 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: think I want to play AFL next season. There's two things. One, 101 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: he's got the most incredible team with the most incredible coach, 102 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: with the most incredible teammates, And we know the culture 103 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: development and the character development and him in that vironment 104 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: is unique and strong, so we know that he can't 105 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: grasp it. He won't just get that and another team. 106 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: As well as the fact that we think physically he's 107 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: more equipped to succeed in the game he's currently playing 108 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: than in the ones he might be interested in. How 109 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: much do either of those things matter as far as 110 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: we us over ruling maybe potentially his decision at this age. 111 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: I don't think that it matters a great deal. You know, 112 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: when kids are younger than about ten, twelve, maybe even fourteen, 113 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: we want to give them every opportunity to explore, let 114 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: them go out and play. I mean, I've got a 115 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: nephew and he is a superstar sportsman. He loves rugby 116 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: league and he loves rugby union. He can't actually play both, 117 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: although he tries to juggle it from season to season. 118 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: But now he's sixteen and it started to get really serious. 119 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: And so far each year he's actually played one, then 120 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: he's played the other. And now he's got development squads 121 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: that are looking at him, and he's going to have 122 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: to make a choice eventually, or is he. I mean 123 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: there's plenty of top tier sports people who make a 124 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: decision and then change their mind three years later as well. 125 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: I think we worry about it too much. Let them 126 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: follow their interests, let them follow their strengths, let them 127 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: follow their passions. Now, a couple of other things to consider, 128 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: and you've touched on that, touch touch on. One of 129 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: them is the environment. What kind of environment is best 130 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: going to serve? And in what environment can your child 131 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: best serve. There's a couple of things to consider. Number one, 132 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: what's the quality of the relationships, Like with the other teammates, 133 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: the coach, the families. Relationships will be a primary motivating force. 134 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: And if your kids have got strong relationships, they will 135 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: show up week in and week out even if they're losing, 136 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: even if they're not very good, because the relationships are strong. 137 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: If they don't have strong relationships, even if they're on 138 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: a winning team, they're not actually going to love doing it. 139 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: So relationships need to be a primary consideration. The second 140 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: thing is competence. You know, some kids are very very 141 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,799 Speaker 2: interested in doing some things that they're very very bad at. Yes, 142 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: and we'll be young, give them the oppunity, let them 143 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 2: figure it out, and they might actually start to develop 144 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 2: a reasonable level of competence. But some kids have just 145 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 2: they're not going to figure that. They just can't do it, 146 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: and eventually they'll actually recognize that and they'll be like, well, 147 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: I've done this for three years in a row and 148 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: I'm still the worst on the team. I'm still no 149 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: better than I was three years ago. And we want 150 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: to direct them towards their strengths, towards the thing that 151 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: they're competent in, because then they can develop that sense 152 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: of mastery. Confidence comes from that. The last thing is 153 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: we've got to give them a sense of autonomy. When 154 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: we force them to do things, it just gets ugly. 155 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: As a child, my mum with the very best of intentions, 156 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: and I love my mom. I'm not saying nasty things 157 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: about her. Really, my mum insisted that I have piano lessons, 158 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: and it got so bad that she would literally have 159 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: to drag me by the arm from the car to 160 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: the music teacher's doorstep so that I would go in 161 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: and do the lessons. I refused to practice. There were tears, 162 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: there were tantrums, that was fighting. It was ugly. 163 00:07:59,360 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: Now. 164 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: I was fourteen years old and I just didn't I 165 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: just wanted to go surfing. That was it. I wasn't 166 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: good enough to be a pro surfer, but that's just 167 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do because my relationships were there 168 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: and I was reasonably competent, and it was my choice. Eventually, 169 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: it gets to a point where we've just got to say, 170 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: you know what, it is up to you. And there 171 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: are many parents who are probably shaking their head and saying, look, 172 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: I'm the parent, they'll do as I say. Yeah, that's fine, 173 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: good luck, But eventually it gets ugly. Yeah, And it's 174 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: true that sometimes you can force your children to do something. 175 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: And when they're twenty four and they can play the piano, 176 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: they can hit a tennis ball over the net consistently 177 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: and have a social match, they might look at you 178 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: and say, I'm so glad you forced me to Yeah, 179 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: but sometimes they don't, and I don't know. I just 180 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: I'd rather find something they're interested in and direct them 181 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 2: to that isn't worth it. There is this is. 182 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: I think this is one of the hardest things for 183 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: me to wrap my head around, is letting go in 184 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: this space. I'm a control freak generally, but with my 185 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: kids it's hard because I know better than them. 186 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: It is, it is. 187 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: It's an interesting time. That was in quotation. That was 188 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: an inverted Commas. By the way, I know better than that. 189 00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts. 190 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: I'm going to share than with you when we get 191 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 3: off the their waves, because we need to finish things 192 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: up right now. Doctor Justin Coulson, it's always a joy 193 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: to talk to you, and an exclusive Doctor Justin Coulson 194 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 3: was a bit of a ready, fourteen year old. Great 195 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: for the chat, Thanks so much. If you enjoy the podcast, 196 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: please take a moment to rate it on iTunes. When 197 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: you do that, it increases the visibility of the podcast 198 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: and helps more people to find it. And if you're 199 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 3: not a subscriber, jump onto Apple Podcasts and subscribe so 200 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: that you can hear every episode as soon as it 201 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 3: is uploaded. For more information on all of doctor Justin 202 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 3: Coulson's books, programs, and podcasts, go to Happy Families dot 203 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 3: com dot au. Or if you'd like to have doctor 204 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: Justin Coulson speak at your school or event, go to 205 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 3: Justinculson dot com.