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Speaker 1: Now we've spoken already at length about the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner publicly apologizing to Indigenous territorianes for harms and

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Speaker 1: injustices caused by the force over the last one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty four years of policing. The Commissioner delivering that

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Speaker 1: apology at the Gama Festival on Saturday. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio right now is the Northern Territory Police Minister,

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Speaker 1: Brent Potter. Good morning to you, Good morning Katie. Now, Minister,

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Speaker 1: do you think the apology was the right thing to do?

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Speaker 2: Listen, that's a decision for the commissioner. I do believe

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Speaker 2: that we need to have a line in the sand.

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Speaker 2: There has been and you rightly pointed out earlier, we've

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Speaker 2: had the coronials, we've had historic imagery coming out of

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Speaker 2: terg At some point we need to all move on together.

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Speaker 2: And I think a line of the sand has been

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Speaker 2: drawn by him. He's not apologizing for as an individual.

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Speaker 2: He's apologizing on behalf of the organization. There'll be people

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Speaker 2: that agree, there'll be people that don't, But at some

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Speaker 2: point he had to make a line in the sand

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Speaker 2: to move forward, because otherwise this would have continued, and

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Speaker 2: like you rightly pointed out, there'll be coronial findings very shortly,

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Speaker 2: and he's got ahead of that.

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Speaker 1: Well's I think it'll continue regardless because it's you know,

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Speaker 1: some are seeing this as like a symbolic thing rather than,

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Speaker 1: you know, rather than a meaningful movement forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think he himself has got up a garma

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Speaker 2: in front of everyone. He's chosen the location. We've had

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with when he wanted to do it

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Speaker 2: or where he did it. That's that's completely his decision.

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Speaker 2: He thought it was the right location to do it.

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Speaker 2: There will be people that disagree with it. There will

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Speaker 2: be people in the police force that do support I

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Speaker 2: know we've heard from a lot of people that don't,

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Speaker 2: but there will be a silent group of people in

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Speaker 2: the police force that agree with what he's saying.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it was the right time? And did

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Speaker 1: you know that it was going to happen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I knew he was going to make an apology.

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Speaker 1: When did you find out?

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Speaker 3: Probably beout a week before.

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Speaker 2: But it's not my place to come out and tell

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Speaker 2: people and go the Commission is going to make an apology.

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Speaker 2: That's for him to do.

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Speaker 1: That did you make of the timing go three weeks

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Speaker 1: out from.

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Speaker 2: An election, Well, I think it removes the politics of it,

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Speaker 2: to be completely honest, because in the moment, I'm in

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Speaker 2: caretaker so I have no meetings with the Commissioner at

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Speaker 2: the moment unless there's a serious incident that occurs for

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Speaker 2: all intensive purposes. This is why we have caretaker for

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Speaker 2: the department heads to run government while we go through

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Speaker 2: an election. He's made the choice to do it. Then

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Speaker 2: none of us were at Garma.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people would say, though, if you're really

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Speaker 1: serious about this, that you would be standing alongside him,

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Speaker 1: or the Chief Minister would be standing alongside him, and

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Speaker 1: it would be like a whole of government approach rather

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Speaker 1: than just the police commissioner coming out and doing it.

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Speaker 2: Well, they would say that, and I would put it

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Speaker 2: back on them and say that would politicize it during

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Speaker 2: an election campaign. And we made a conscious decision not

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Speaker 2: to be at Garma due to travel, and we've been

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Speaker 2: in caretaker mode. So he's decided to do it there,

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Speaker 2: he's well with and he's right, it's his apology, or

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Speaker 2: you know, he's delivered the apology. I think if I

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Speaker 2: were standing next to him, that would have politicized him.

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Speaker 1: So a week ago, you found out about a week ago,

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Speaker 1: and you do feel it's the right move.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the right move for the commissioner to

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Speaker 2: make the apology. When and where he does it is

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Speaker 2: completely up to him. He chose Garma during Caretaker and

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Speaker 2: that's a discussion you can have with the commissioners. You

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Speaker 2: know why he chose that location at that time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people are already questioning on the tech

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Speaker 1: SIDNE this morning. You know, Katie, it's just a little

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Speaker 1: while ago that the police Commissioner was saying he does

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Speaker 1: not believe there's systemic racism within the Northern Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 1: So if there's not systemic racism within the force, why

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Speaker 1: is he apologizing for all of these issues over such

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Speaker 1: a long period of time.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's two points you raise there. So the text,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Who it is to is actually there's quite a few.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, but what they're talking about systemic racism institutional racing.

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Speaker 2: He's saying right now he doesn't believe that's in the force.

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Speaker 2: And I can tell you the people I meet there's

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Speaker 2: not institutional racism. Policies and procedures in place that ostracize

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Speaker 2: one group of people.

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Speaker 3: That's what that means.

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Speaker 2: He's apologized from inception of the Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 2: and the events at it, and there have been some

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Speaker 2: very horrific events that have happened in the past that

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Speaker 2: he's made an apology for and as an organization, he's

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Speaker 2: doing on a line on this sa end and said

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Speaker 2: we need to move forward together and we need to

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Speaker 2: progress the agenda of the Northern Territory Police Force, which

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Speaker 2: is protecting all territories regardless of where they live.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the steps that he's outlined in

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Speaker 1: terms of stamping any racism and bolstering the numbers of

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Speaker 1: Indigenous police is a good move.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to have community members policing in

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Speaker 2: their community and we need to have a target which

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Speaker 2: is at thirty percent. And you know, it's an aspiration

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Speaker 2: when he's got to get the people to be there,

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Speaker 2: but you set a target your work towards as an organization,

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Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely needed.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of him resigning from the Police

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Speaker 1: Association this morning?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I think it is a it is a

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Speaker 2: it is a significant step, but he's obviously made that decision,

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Speaker 2: not lightly. He's very been very clear and articulating why

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Speaker 2: he's done that, and I support him in that position.

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Speaker 2: But in saying that it is his own personal decision

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Speaker 2: to whether he has a membership with a union or not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a it's a bold move, you know too,

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Speaker 1: obviously to step out following on from the statement that

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Speaker 1: they had issued. You know, look, I'm I'm quite surprised

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Speaker 1: by it. I've got to say this morning.

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Speaker 2: I'm not I mean, I'm not. I mean, leadership takes

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Speaker 2: intestinal fortitude. He's made a line in the sand. He's

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Speaker 2: made a decision on the direction of the agency that

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Speaker 2: he leads, not the union. There are members in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Force that will support what he has done.

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Speaker 3: There will be members that won't.

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Speaker 2: But he's made a decision as the leader of that

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Speaker 2: agency to hand in his recognation for the union, and

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Speaker 2: he believes this is the best direction for the agency

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Speaker 2: and I support him in that. That doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: that he won't be engaging with the union. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that he doesn't believe in the principles of why

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Speaker 2: the police association is there. It just means for him personally,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't want to be a member.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think it's appropriate that he didn't,

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Speaker 1: like he told you a week ago that he was

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Speaker 1: going to make this apology, but that he didn't advise

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Speaker 1: members that he was going to be doing that.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a decision for him.

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Speaker 2: Like I keep saying to people, yes, I'm the police Minister,

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Speaker 2: I work with the Police Commissioner. But the day to

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Speaker 2: day running of the agency.

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Speaker 1: I guess what it sort of points to. Some people

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Speaker 1: listening might think to themselves, Well, he sees that it's

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Speaker 1: more important to advise you as the minister rather than

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Speaker 1: the rank and file within the force.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there were other people inside the agency that

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Speaker 2: will of it, and he obviously told people that needed

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Speaker 2: to be made aware, and he's learned the He alerted

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Speaker 2: the union prior to him going out at Garma and

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Speaker 2: telling them and gave them, gave them a copy of that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, whether he tells everyone or tells a group

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Speaker 2: of people, that's his discretion. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: he's decided to go out make the apology, draw the

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Speaker 2: line the sand so that we can all move on,

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Speaker 2: because there has been for too long I think too

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Speaker 2: many people kicking the police force for historical instances and

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Speaker 2: it was holding the agency back from going forward.

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Speaker 1: How can you just tell me a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about how Leanne Little's role is going to work within

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I believe she works in she's a public servant,

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Speaker 2: she's not a uniform member. How she works in the

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Speaker 2: Community Resilience Engagement Command and one of her roles will

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Speaker 2: be meeting that thirty percent target, seeing the policies and

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Speaker 2: frameworks in place to ensure that we can get more

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Speaker 2: First Nations people into the agency.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how are you going to get there when at

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Speaker 1: the moment we seem to sort of be, you know,

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Speaker 1: like for a number of years and not even just

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Speaker 1: under the Labor Party, but for a number of years,

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Speaker 1: like we've struggled to even meet the numbers that we

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Speaker 1: need of police at you know, at any stage we.

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Speaker 3: Recruit above attrition.

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Speaker 2: Right now, attrition's gone from nine point two to seven

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Speaker 2: point eight.

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Speaker 1: Well, the point to point, you know, I think the

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Speaker 1: point that I'm trying to make is is, you know,

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Speaker 1: people listening are going to be going we might be

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Speaker 1: recruiting under attrition, but it still doesn't feel like we've

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Speaker 1: got enough police on the beat. Everybody would love to see, Like,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a I think it'd be a great

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Speaker 1: thing to have thirty percent Indigenous police, So I've got

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Speaker 1: no issue with that. In fact, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: really good move. But how are you going to get

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Speaker 1: there when it feels like we don't even have enough

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Speaker 1: police Now?

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Speaker 2: Well, we've committed to two hundred and seventy extra officers

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Speaker 2: and I don't think anyone could be any clearer than

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Speaker 2: this government. We said we believe the issues we see

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory is a resourcing issue, not a

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Speaker 2: first week of Parliament change. The law in the world

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Speaker 2: will be fixed because it's hard work. But in terms

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Speaker 2: of getting the thirty percent First Nations or Indigenous people,

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner the Community Resilience Engagement Command, with Leanne Little

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Speaker 2: and a few of the others have developed a package

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Speaker 2: to streamline actpos becoming constables like we did with the

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Speaker 2: pali's converting into constables. But more importantly, how can they

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Speaker 2: use alos and the night patrols or community patrols that

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Speaker 2: we see in community as a pathway? You start there

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Speaker 2: and then you find yourself having a pathway into being

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Speaker 2: a constable, going through ALO, through ACPO and into into

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Speaker 2: constable structure.

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Speaker 1: What you just spoke about, then that's something that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association had spoken about in the pressure

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Speaker 1: release that they issued. So they said that they were

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Speaker 1: calling upon the Commissioner to address the gap by immediately

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Speaker 1: implementing an act PODE to constable transition career pathway. This

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Speaker 1: would not only offer a practical solution, but also demonstrated

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Speaker 1: genuine commitment to providing actpos with the same opportunities for

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Speaker 1: advancement that the Commissioner himself has had, including the potential

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Speaker 1: to rise through the ranks to one day become the

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Speaker 1: Commissioner of the Northern Territory Police Force. So this was

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Speaker 1: all so already happening.

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Speaker 2: The unions come out with something that we already announced

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Speaker 2: during the police review. It was one of the recommendations

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Speaker 2: from the Vince the Cali Police Review. So we're not

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Speaker 2: disputing it happening.

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Speaker 1: Has that already been.

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Speaker 2: The first part of that work getting acposted constable has

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Speaker 2: already started. I believe they've already put out those expressions

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Speaker 2: of interest happy to be corrected.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying that right now, within the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Force, an Indigenous person could become an ACPO and

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Speaker 1: they could advance all the way up to becoming the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 2: The missure, we've got acpos in the Territory Safety Division

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Speaker 2: that want to become constables and they will be some

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Speaker 2: of the first that will do the conversion course. So

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Speaker 2: what the union's talking about there, the Commissioner has already

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Speaker 2: been implementing and working. So that's roll yes, no, no, I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying they're rehashing something that we've already been very

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Speaker 2: public in from the police review. The commission has been

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Speaker 2: very public ay thirty percent target and saying he wants

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Speaker 2: to make the change, he's hired the person to do it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're already implementing the police review.

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Speaker 2: That's how you keep territory and say, if you implement

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Speaker 2: the review, you give them the resources. That's what's going

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Speaker 2: to make a difference in the territory.

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Speaker 1: All right, Look, we're fast running out of time, but

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of things I want to get to

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Speaker 1: because we've got the Lord Mayor waiting outside ready to

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Speaker 1: come in. Now. In all of that coverage over the weekend.

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Speaker 1: There was a line from the speech which I've had

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Speaker 1: listeners already contact me about after reading in an article

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Speaker 1: on the ABC online. That line is one police are

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Speaker 1: route teemly tasked with enforcing policies, laws and regulations, both

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Speaker 1: federal and here in the Northern Territory that are often

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Speaker 1: influenced by media coverage of crime, victims and community safety,

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Speaker 1: regardless of the data, evidence and expert advice. Now, one

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Speaker 1: victim of crime had said to me, crime rates have

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Speaker 1: never been higher. We've been very patient with the police

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Speaker 1: unable to take our phone calls. But to read this

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Speaker 1: from the police commissioner as a slap in the face.

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Speaker 2: Well, listen to that individual. I can only understand and

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Speaker 2: appreciate how that makes them feel. But we know it's

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Speaker 2: a very emotive topic, crime and it has the absolute

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Speaker 2: focus of everyone at the moment.

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Speaker 1: But do you acknowledge that those crime rates have gone up, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I've been on the show every time, and I acknowledge that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around

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Speaker 1: why he's been on you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, criminalizing the act of having an open container

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Speaker 2: as an example, the Mensis report into public or into

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Speaker 2: alcoholism was released and it said mandatory alcohol rehab doesn't work,

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Speaker 2: It costs three times as more, it put more burden

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Speaker 2: on the health system in the emergency department.

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Speaker 3: Well that's that's the facts.

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Speaker 2: So when we talk about alcohol and you know, bringing

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Speaker 2: back the criminalization of alcohol, that doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: What does work? But that's one example, given an example.

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Speaker 1: That's one thing. And again I'll say, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, change behavior programs.

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Speaker 1: Look, you know, to a lot of people listening though

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Speaker 1: at the moment, they like crime is a major major

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Speaker 1: concern for them. You know, if you've had somebody try

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Speaker 1: to get into your home, if you are in a

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Speaker 1: situation where you've felt very, very vulnerable and you've called

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police and you've not had somebody come

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Speaker 1: out for several hours, you know, you can understand why,

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Speaker 1: you know why they might be feeling a bit disheartened.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I've had people in my yard and I've had

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Speaker 2: to call police and haven't had them attending in the time.

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Speaker 3: That we do all want them to.

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Speaker 2: But people that the police commissioner is there to to

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Speaker 2: not be political, to talk to the facts, to implement

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Speaker 2: you know, the resources and put the resources on the

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Speaker 2: ground to keep territory.

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Speaker 1: It makes things political, right, kind of stepped into a

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Speaker 1: political space.

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Speaker 2: Because I like I just said, he's got to be

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Speaker 2: there to do what actually keeps territori In safe, and

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Speaker 2: he has obviously got his own concerns about how that

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Speaker 2: plays out in the public and he wants to get

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Speaker 2: to a point where Territorians are absolutely safe and a

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Speaker 2: police officer a teen so he's made the decision to

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Speaker 2: make that point. I think we all understand it's a

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Speaker 2: very emotive issue and no one wants to be victim.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to have to talk to a person

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Speaker 2: and say to them I'm sorry that we couldn't get

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Speaker 2: a police vehicle to you. And that's why we keep saying.

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Speaker 2: The actual peace to solve this is resources. If it

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Speaker 2: was as simple as a one week in Parliament and

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Speaker 2: it would all be fixed overnight, we would have done it. Katie,

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Speaker 2: my kids go on the bus. I know your kids

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Speaker 2: catch the bus and I've been there dealing with that before.

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Speaker 2: No one wants this to happen. It's not as simple

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Speaker 2: as a law change.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, Bruce in Moyle's message through, so can you

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Speaker 1: ask police Minister Brent Potter and the government to apologize

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Speaker 1: to the general public for the day to day crime

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Speaker 1: wave that we all face.

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Speaker 3: I'm more than happy to.

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Speaker 2: I want to see not a single territory in have

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Speaker 2: to see visual any social behavior, or see domestic family

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Speaker 2: violence or be a victim themselves.

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Speaker 3: We have a plan to get on.

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Speaker 2: Top of it, which is more resources to police, the

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Speaker 2: productive policing that Leah spoke about just before.

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Speaker 3: We've done that.

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Speaker 2: We've got the Territory Safety Division. We know what needs

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Speaker 2: to be done. It is now recruiting those officers, getting

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Speaker 2: them out on the beat. They were at the races

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Speaker 2: on the weekend, They've been at the show's circuit. They're

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Speaker 2: the ones doing all the tip out of our grog.

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Speaker 2: That's how we solve this problem and change behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Brent, we are unfortunately going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: I've had Hope to speak to about a few other things,

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Speaker 1: but we have got the Lord Mayor sitting outside.

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Speaker 3: Brandy to get in here.

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Speaker 1: Brent Potter, thanks so much this time this morning. Much appreciated.