1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's.

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 2: On the ninth of June nineteen seventy nine, the Ghost

3
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 2: Train ride it Sidneys Lunar Park caught fire. The players

4
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 2: killed six children, young young adults, teen boys weren't they

5
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,240
Speaker 2: and one adult, but despite a coronal inquiry, the cause

6
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,320
Speaker 2: of the fire has never been determined. Well forty two

7
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 2: years later, we're learning more in the new ABC series

8
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,680
Speaker 2: Ghost Train. The reporter behind all of this joins us now,

9
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 2: Caro Meldrim, Hannah, Hello.

10
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 3: Morning, Amanda and Jonesy.

11
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 4: Wow, it's such a visceral thing for me when I

12
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 4: watched this last week, Carrow, because I'm of the age

13
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 4: is adjacent the survivor from the he was with his

14
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 4: mates from Waverley College. And the big thing when will

15
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 4: kids was being able to go to Luna Park as

16
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 4: by yourself. And I was too young. It was only

17
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 4: twelve and the ghost Train fire happened. But it's just

18
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,879
Speaker 4: such an extraordinary story.

19
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, going to Luna Park in Sydney, it was a

20
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 3: rite of passage. It was a safe place, it was

21
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,319
Speaker 3: a fun place. It was very popular. There were lots

22
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 3: of adults around. It didn't have a history of major incidents.

23
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 3: The ghost train ride certainly had no history of major fires,

24
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,760
Speaker 3: so this event just sort of came out of the blue.

25
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,399
Speaker 3: Sure it was a bit run down, you know, you

26
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 3: wouldn't build rides out of the materials that they were

27
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 3: built then, But this fire just to wipe through that

28
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,440
Speaker 3: place and take those kids out and the father, it

29
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 3: was just shocking. And for forty two years, the narrative

30
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 3: from police certainly has been there's nothing to see here.

31
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 3: This was an electrical fault, there are no suspicious circumstances,

32
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,480
Speaker 3: and there's nothing pointing to arson. But we've uncovered something

33
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,679
Speaker 3: very different that it actually does point to suspicious circumstances

34
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 3: in arsen.

35
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 2: And who's behind this? I mean, who would do this?

36
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 3: That's right? Who'd set far to a ride if there

37
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 3: were children inside? Now it's debatable whether you know, if

38
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 3: this is us and deliberately lich, whether it was knowing

39
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 3: that there were children inside. But look where we've got

40
00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 3: to now is and there is significant revelations now today

41
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 3: head of episode two tonight on the ABC is that

42
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 3: a police insider has come out of the woodwork. And

43
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 3: this is the guy Colin Wedderburn who assisted the coroner

44
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 3: at the inquest at the time. Now he has come

45
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 3: out guns blazing, and he is on record now saying

46
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,399
Speaker 3: that the police perverted the course of justice.

47
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:20,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

48
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 3: Yes, and that the ghost trained fire was deliberately lit

49
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 3: and that there is the evidence there to show that.

50
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 3: Now it is a massive allegation about the police.

51
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 4: At the time, everyone was just saying it's an electrical fire.

52
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 4: And as you said, Lunar Park was kind of run down,

53
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 4: so everyone just accepted it. But I remember as a

54
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,840
Speaker 4: kid sitting around dad's bar with all the neighbors and

55
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:43,800
Speaker 4: they'd all just talk about stuff, and then there was

56
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 4: this all this sides speaker about Yeah.

57
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: But then of course all.

58
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,920
Speaker 4: The developers wanted to get rid of the thing, so

59
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,519
Speaker 4: there was a word in suburbia. It is in nineteen

60
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 4: seventy nine eighty that the Lunar Park fire had been

61
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 4: deliberately lit.

62
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:57,679
Speaker 1: So this was back then when I was a kid.

63
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,519
Speaker 2: So it's to presumably an alleged to close down Luna

64
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 2: Park for to build.

65
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 3: Housing bang on, to evict the incumbent lease holders and

66
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 3: open up this prime harbor foreshore parcel of land, you know,

67
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 3: opposite the next to the Harbor Bridge, opposite the opera houses,

68
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 3: is undeveloped land. It's sort of one of the last

69
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,720
Speaker 3: remaining parcels that's you know, ding ding ding dollar signs

70
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 3: for developers. So the theory was, and the rumor was

71
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,519
Speaker 3: that the fire was lit to get rid of the

72
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 3: people who were running it and for some developers to

73
00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 3: take over this land and redevelop it, possibly you know,

74
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 3: a casino, high rise, hotels, bars, you name it. So

75
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 3: that was the rumor, but it's never really been proven

76
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,440
Speaker 3: and those on the inside have never come out and

77
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,800
Speaker 3: spoken about it, but we've tracked so many of them down.

78
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 3: So the series develops, we look at now tonight the

79
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 3: police investigation, and all of these witnesses are coming out

80
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 3: of the woodwork saying what they heard and saw that night,

81
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,040
Speaker 3: and they're telling us they're alleging that they were silenced

82
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 3: by the police, that they were intimidated to change statements

83
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,160
Speaker 3: allegedly about what they heard and saw to change it

84
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 3: away from arson and suspicious circumstances. And then we get

85
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 3: to at the end of the series of finale, we

86
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 3: look at what happened to that piece of land. As

87
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 3: you guys are banging the money there, whose hands did

88
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,240
Speaker 3: it fall into?

89
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 2: Wow?

90
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 1: Forty years later, it seems, and this is the other theory.

91
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 4: If they did indeed set it on fire, was it

92
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 4: not meant to go up so quickly? Was it meant

93
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,240
Speaker 4: to be or is it just a shoddy job of

94
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 4: setting it on fire?

95
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that's right.

96
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:37,840
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of journalists have tossed this

97
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,359
Speaker 3: around and turned it over over the years. You know

98
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 3: what's so weird about this whole thing, too, is when

99
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,119
Speaker 3: we forensically charted the fire and how it was moving

100
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 3: and where it started because we built a big part

101
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,680
Speaker 3: of the ghost trains so that we could understand it

102
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,159
Speaker 3: and pinpoint where everyone was in their carriages and what

103
00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 3: they were seeing. The fire started in the imitation fireplace,

104
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,239
Speaker 3: this prop inside, So how did the how did flames

105
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 3: get in this fake fireplace? And people, now you'll hear

106
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 3: tonight they smelt kerosene at the imitation fireplace when they

107
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,479
Speaker 3: rode past, and there was no kerosene stored in the train.

108
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,479
Speaker 3: So there are there were there are these pointers that

109
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,200
Speaker 3: that are you know, fingering, you know, really pointing over

110
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,360
Speaker 3: to arson and suspicious circumstances. But the fire also started

111
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 3: at the end of the night closing time. So was

112
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 3: it an arson job that just went totally wrong. You know,

113
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 3: they didn't know that there was this next round of

114
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,320
Speaker 3: riders and children inside that it just it took hold

115
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,680
Speaker 3: too quickly and took people out when it was never

116
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,039
Speaker 3: meant to. But regardless, if this was deliberately lit, then

117
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 3: you can't get much much more serious than this. As

118
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 3: the police insiders are saying, you know, these are the

119
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,279
Speaker 3: most serious allegations this is. If this is deliberately lit,

120
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 3: this is either an act of mass murder or it's

121
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 3: a mass killing and there are people out there that

122
00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,160
Speaker 3: have gotten away with it.

123
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 1: Wow, if someone knows something, and it's so great.

124
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 4: And the way you've read all the Ghost train carriages,

125
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,600
Speaker 4: which I believe they look like the original Ghost train

126
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 4: carriages do.

127
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we built them to spec to the engineer's diagrams.

128
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, such a flashback. It's such a great show. Thank

129
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,359
Speaker 4: you for joining us. It's catch the next episode of

130
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 4: The Ghost Train Fire and ABC A thirty tonight.

131
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 1: Cara Meldrem, Hannah, thank you.

132
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Guys, Sure sure with join Z

133
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 3: and Amanda