1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Yesterday the Senate passed the bill to allow the referendum 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: on the Voice to Parliament to go ahead. We've been 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: hearing a lot about this, but a lot of us 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: are too sure exactly what it all means. Doctor Hannah 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: mclade is a legal expert associate professor at Curtain University, 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: knows a lot more about it than we do and 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: joins us. Now, good morning, doctor, good morning. Well just 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, what is the Voice to Parliament? 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: Well, the Voice will be a democratically elected Aboriginal body. 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: It'll be made up of Aboriginal people who are voted 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: in from around Australia. The actual form of this body 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: has not yet been determined, but that's basically the thrust 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: of it. That'll be an Aboriginal body that will give 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 2: advice to the Parliament about laws and policies affecting Aboriginal people. 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's pretty much it. But this time it's 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: going to be actually incorporated into the Commonwealth Constitution if 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: the referendums succeeds, so it's going to have constitutional status 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: and protection. 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 3: As opposed to just a sentence. They wanted something. The 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: actual question in there in the Constitution. 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: It's adding a new power to the constitution in a 22 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: way that gives Aboriginal people a meaningful place in Australia. 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: And so we have had national Indigenous bodies in the past, 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: since the nineteen seventies in fact, but normally a new 25 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: government comes in, disbands it creates its own one, and 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: so we don't really get very far in indigenous affairs 27 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: because there's all this politicking going on. Really, we had at. 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: Sick for a long time, didn't we, And then that 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: was we had a disbanded by the government. 30 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: Yes, it was disbanded. 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: You mentioned that the thrust of it hasn't been determined yet. 32 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: Do you think a lot of people might be wary 33 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: to vote on something that hasn't been determined yet. 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 2: Oh? No, the thrust of it is certainly very clear. 35 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: And what I said is the nuts and bolts details, 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: you know, the logo for example. Oh sorry, yeah, but 37 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: the criticis very clear that this will be a representative body. 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: There will be gender balance, so oboriginal women will be 39 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: represented equally. It won't have a program function, so it 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: won't be responsible for any programs, but it will be 41 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: advisory about laws and policies. The Parliament has power to 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 2: really determine the scope of the voice, and I think 43 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: there's a lot of actual scare mongering on this point 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: because we don't need to get bogged down in the 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: fine details of the voice. We know what it is. 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: It's a national indigenous body. It won't be handpicked from government. 47 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: The leaders will come from communities throughout Australia and they'll 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: be giving advice. They won't be able to stop any 49 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: laws advice. 50 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: Unlike before when you said things have been swept away 51 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: with changes of government. This can't happen when it's in 52 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: the Constitution unless there was another referendum for it to 53 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: be removed. Is it right. 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 2: Yes. It will mean that the government will always need 55 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: to have the voice. Okay, so you know there might 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: be changes to the structures of the voice because it 57 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: will be established by a legislation, but the actual voice 58 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 2: will have to always exist now, you know, until if 59 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 2: there was another referend. I'm saying no voice to Aboriginal people, 60 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: and I don't think we're going to see that because 61 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: to be honest, the younger generation are much more supportive 62 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: of Aboriginal people really, and this very sensible proposal. It's 63 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: actually fairly modest, really to give the first peoples of 64 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: the country a right to a voice and to have 65 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: that acknowledgment in your Constitution, which is the biggest law 66 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: of the land. 67 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: We would you say to people who think, and some 68 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: of these people are people actual Center Price Warren Mundine, 69 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: who say that it's actually going to be more divisive. 70 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: I think that's very foolish and I think what they're 71 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: doing is actually highly divisive. This is a very modest 72 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: proposal to recognize Aboriginal people's place in Australia and to 73 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: give Aboriginal people a say about laws and policies affecting 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: their communities and their people. And we know that actually 75 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: the situation for many Aboriginal people is not getting better, 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: it's getting worse. And the close the gap policy and 77 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: commitment with serious investment or funding by government is failing. 78 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: And that's tragedy for Australia. It's a tragedy that incarceration 79 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: and child removal and Aboriginal suicides are all rising in 80 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: the face of commitment by government. So we're not seeing 81 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: the best value for the funding investment, and it's really 82 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: because Aboriginal people aren't being properly listened to and heard. 83 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: So I think it's very sad that we now have 84 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: some Aboriginal people, not many on the right wing. They're 85 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: being supported by right wing factions and money, and they're 86 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: prepared to speak against their own people's interests. 87 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: Doctor, what do you think about the words used by 88 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 3: Mikayla Cash, the Shadow Attorney General, saying this change could 89 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: lead to a legal can of worms? 90 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: How do you RESI no, absolutely not. It's been made 91 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: very clear that the Voice has an advisory role, it 92 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: cannot interfere with government and the constitutional law experts overwhelmingly 93 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: and two of the most eminent former High Court judges 94 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: have supported this voice as very sensible and appropriate. And indeed, 95 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: I think the Prime Minister has released the advice of 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: the Solicitor General which absolutely debunks that. So I think 97 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: this is an example of misinformation that's probably deliberate by 98 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: the Opposition to play politics instead of thinking about the 99 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,119 Speaker 2: best centus of our country as a nation as a whole. 100 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: I think the best we can be is informed. What 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: would your advice be to us to get as informed 102 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: about it all as we can ahead of the vote. 103 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: Certainly, let's learn as much as we can there's a 104 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: lot of information around now. There is the ULARU Dialogues 105 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: have a website I've just published with constitutional experts Gabrielle 106 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: apple b and you can find our publication on ten 107 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: Questions about the Voice in the Conversation and there's many resources. 108 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 2: I think yes, twenty three now has a campaign officer 109 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: in Perth. Reconciliation Australia is always a good source of information, 110 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 2: I'm sure, but please have a check out of Australia 111 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: to the conversation, I mean nationally published with out ten 112 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: Questions about the Voice and you'll see links there to 113 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 2: further resources. 114 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: Okay, so I've been passing the Senate not so what 115 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: is next? Tangibly? What do we do? 116 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: Well, we're now going to find out. I don't know 117 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: when the actual referendum date is, but it has to 118 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: be two months after this bill and it can't be 119 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: later than six months. And the advice to all the 120 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: word is that we'll be looking at October. And I 121 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: think they want to avoid some football match or something 122 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 2: like that, of course, but yell, I think yeah, we're 123 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: going to see the campaign heading up a little bit. 124 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: I think in West Australia and the Minister for Indigenous 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: Affairs is visiting throughout w A and in regional areas 126 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: who talk with people more and we will see, Yes, 127 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: as I mentioned a campaign person here, we're going to 128 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: see more ads on television and there are small grants 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: for community organizations who want to get involved, and I 130 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: think I'm not sure of the guidelines for them, but 131 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: they have been released and that comes from the philanthropy 132 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: of some very generous bodies, you know, that are supporting 133 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: the voice. So I think we're going to see a 134 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: little more action in the West. I think we've been 135 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: a little bit behind, but we'll see more happening soon. 136 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: So I'm assuming from what you're saying that it will 137 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: be a go to the polls situation. It's not going 138 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: to be a post or a referendum or online. 139 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: Yes, it appears to be we go in and we 140 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: both go to as a compulsory I think it is 141 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: a compulsory d like any other. I haven't heard otherwise, 142 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: but it does seem so it's. 143 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: All somewhere between two and six months from now. That's 144 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: the window that will be open. I'm sure we'll learn 145 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 3: a lot more between now and then. 146 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Well, I hope yes, yes, all right, well, doctor Hanna mclaid, 147 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. 148 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 3: Thanks, okay, thank you, thank you.