WEBVTT - The NZ dad on the run with his kids, explained

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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<v Speaker 1>the DALYI os oh, now it makes sense. Good morning

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the Daily ODS. It's Tuesday, the ninth

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<v Speaker 1>of September.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Sam Gozlowski.

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<v Speaker 1>New Zealand police have shot and killed a man who

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<v Speaker 1>had been on the run with his three young children

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<v Speaker 1>for almost four years. Tom Phillips disappeared in December twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one with his kids, then aged eight, six and five,

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<v Speaker 1>leaving their mother and his family behind. In today's episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll explain what we know about how Phillips and his

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<v Speaker 1>children stayed hidden for so long and his final fatal

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<v Speaker 1>collision with police. But first a quick word from our sponsor.

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<v Speaker 2>So Lucy. As you mentioned at the top, this story

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<v Speaker 2>has been ongoing since late twenty twenty one, and we've

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<v Speaker 2>covered it before here at TDA. When Tom Phillips and

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<v Speaker 2>his children were spotted last year, I think we did

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<v Speaker 2>a video on it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>For those who aren't familiar, though, take us right back

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<v Speaker 2>to the beginning a couple of years ago where this

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<v Speaker 2>story started.

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<v Speaker 1>So this actually really starts in September twenty twenty one.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when Tom Phillips and his three kids, named Jada, Maverick,

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<v Speaker 1>and Ember first disappeared together. At the time, the kids

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<v Speaker 1>were aged eight, six and five, so pretty little kids. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>They were missing for seventeen days in New Zealand's Waikato region,

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<v Speaker 1>which is on the west coast of the North Island.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom's ute was found on a remote beach more than

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<v Speaker 1>an hour from the nearest petrol station, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>like on the beach, like physically on the sand below

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<v Speaker 1>the tideline facing the waves. The group was gone so

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<v Speaker 1>long that searchers were actually called off, and the family

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<v Speaker 1>told media at the time they were considering the worst

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<v Speaker 1>case scenario. They thought there was a strong possibility that

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<v Speaker 1>all of them had been actually washed out to see

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<v Speaker 1>but then all of them showed up again, completely unharmed.

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<v Speaker 1>So Tom and all three kids they walked into the

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<v Speaker 1>family farmhouse owned by Tom's parents seventeen days after they had.

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<v Speaker 2>Disappeared, and that must have been quite a shock to

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<v Speaker 2>the family. It was a national news story. Were there

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<v Speaker 2>any repercussions for Tom based on the fact that the

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<v Speaker 2>family had gone missing for almost three weeks and then

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<v Speaker 2>just turned up again.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So in terms of like physically, everyone was totally fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently Tom had a lot of experience in living in

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<v Speaker 1>the bush and that he'd also taken some food with them.

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<v Speaker 1>In terms of legal repercussions, he was charged with wasting

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<v Speaker 1>police resources in relation to the search and told to

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<v Speaker 1>appear in court the following January. And then it's hard

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<v Speaker 1>to pin down exactly the timeline of events, partly because

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<v Speaker 1>some information hasn't been made public to the media. But

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<v Speaker 1>we know that at some point in the ensuing month,

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<v Speaker 1>Tom didn't have legal custody of his children anymore. But

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<v Speaker 1>just to beically, I have to be vague. There's only

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<v Speaker 1>so much that we can say, but just that by

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<v Speaker 1>December twenty twenty one, he didn't have legal custody of

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<v Speaker 1>his children. And then it was that month, December twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one, that he and his kids disappeared for the

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<v Speaker 1>second time.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so, he was due to face court on those

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<v Speaker 2>charges about wasting police resources. He didn't show up for

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<v Speaker 2>the court date, and that was that second disappearance. Is

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<v Speaker 2>that the disappearance that we've been talking about until today.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So on the ninth of December twenty twenty one,

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<v Speaker 1>Tom and his kids left the family farmhouse and disappeared

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<v Speaker 1>into the Western Waikato region. A week later, there was

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<v Speaker 1>a Facebook post that began circulating saying that the kids

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<v Speaker 1>were missing again and the family wanted them back police

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<v Speaker 1>at that time, so December twenty twenty one, they actually

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<v Speaker 1>said they weren't concerned because they are now just two

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<v Speaker 1>months out or three months out from a previous disappearance

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<v Speaker 1>where everyone was totally fine, and they now know that

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<v Speaker 1>this guy has experience living in the bush. And they

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<v Speaker 1>said at the time that he hadn't broken any court

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<v Speaker 1>restrictions and that he told his family where he was going.

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<v Speaker 1>But then when he didn't show up to the court

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<v Speaker 1>appearance which was scheduled for January twenty twenty two, they

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<v Speaker 1>issue and arrest warrant and then the family reported the

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<v Speaker 1>kids and Phillips missing in mid January twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've been basically missing until now.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's three and a half years of being reported missing.

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<v Speaker 2>But we knew though that Tom and his children were

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<v Speaker 2>still alive all of this time, because, as I mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>there was this sighting of them last year that we covered.

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<v Speaker 2>What can you tell me about that sighting?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So TDA followers may remember the footage that we

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<v Speaker 1>saw was from a video put together by our journalist

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<v Speaker 1>Atola Rock. That citing in particular was special because it

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<v Speaker 1>was the first time that Tom and all three kids

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<v Speaker 1>were seen together. So it was in October twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>and the kids and Tom were seen by pig hunters

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<v Speaker 1>in the region who initially didn't recognize them. They started

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<v Speaker 1>filming them because they thought they were poachers and they

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<v Speaker 1>wanted legal repercussions. They told media at the time. They

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<v Speaker 1>remembered that Tom Phillips was holding a gun, that he

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<v Speaker 1>was silent, they said. They told the kids that they

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<v Speaker 1>were on private property. They asked, does anyone know you're

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<v Speaker 1>on this private property? The eldest kid said no, just

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<v Speaker 1>you guys, right.

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<v Speaker 2>So they actually spoke to the family, yes, just very briefly.

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<v Speaker 1>The confirmed sighting led to a three day search in

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<v Speaker 1>the area that didn't turn anything up. So I mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>that sighting was special because that was all of them

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<v Speaker 1>together for the first time, But that wasn't the only

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<v Speaker 1>sighting that we have from the last couple of years.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, so there were other sightings in that three year period.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I'm relying here on a timeline from the

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<v Speaker 1>New Zealand publication stuff, so they've noted a number of

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<v Speaker 1>possible sightings over the years. Police believe Phillips was the

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<v Speaker 1>perpetrator of a number of armed robberies, successful or attempted,

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<v Speaker 1>all in and around the Waikato region. Sometimes he had

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<v Speaker 1>one of the kids with him, sometimes not. In June

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four, police actually posted an eighty thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 1>reward as well as potential criminal immunity if anyone who

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<v Speaker 1>had been helping him came forward. No one came forward

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<v Speaker 1>that we know of, Like, I don't think this reward

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<v Speaker 1>was ever handed out, Like people gave information, but nothing

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<v Speaker 1>that was enough to trigger that. And then so then

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<v Speaker 1>after that then we have the spotting, like the sighting

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<v Speaker 1>by the people who thought they were poaches. And then

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<v Speaker 1>it was around then that we started to get like

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of kind of more media coverage of this.

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<v Speaker 1>So that month October twenty twenty four, police shared a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of information that hadn't previously been public. So they

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<v Speaker 1>said they believed Tom had taken his kids as part

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<v Speaker 1>of a custody dispute which had come after the seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>day disappearance. They told the New Zealand Herald that officially speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>the New Zealand Government Child Protection Agency had custody of

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<v Speaker 1>the children, although they weren't around, so it was sort

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<v Speaker 1>of just in law. And they also said they were

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<v Speaker 1>aware of the fact that there were people helping him

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<v Speaker 1>stay hidden who were not cooperating with police.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think there's a few aspects to this story here.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, one clearly is the child protection aspect. But

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<v Speaker 2>then there was this spate of robberies which I could

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<v Speaker 2>only assume were for food and materials and that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of thing. Yeah, so there were crimes being committed as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and so this kind of bubbled along for a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of years. Were there any other developments in this case though,

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<v Speaker 2>that led up to this recent confrontation in major development?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so, Actually two weeks ago, two or three weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 1>Tom Phillips's sister, Rossie, gave an interview to New Zealand

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<v Speaker 1>journalist Patty Gower and she read a letter from their mother,

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<v Speaker 1>her and Tom's mother, the kid's grandmother.

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<v Speaker 3>Tom, I feel really said that you thought you had

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<v Speaker 3>to do this, not considering how much we love you

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<v Speaker 3>and can support you. Jada Merrick and Nimba I love

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<v Speaker 3>you so much and really must being part of your lives.

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<v Speaker 3>Every day I wake up and hope that today will

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<v Speaker 3>be the day that you will come home.

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<v Speaker 1>So this was only a couple of weeks ago. This

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<v Speaker 1>was on the nineteenth of August. I don't think it's likely, however,

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<v Speaker 1>that Tom actually saw this, given that we believe he's

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<v Speaker 1>been basically in the bush all this time, and also

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<v Speaker 1>given the reason why we're talking about this story now,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that he has had this confrontation with police

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<v Speaker 1>that's led to his death.

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<v Speaker 2>So talk to me about that confrontation. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>big news story here in Australia when we woke up

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday morning, right yes, So.

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<v Speaker 1>At around two thirty am on Monday, police responded to

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<v Speaker 1>reports of a break in at a shop in the

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<v Speaker 1>royal town of Poor Pio in the northwest of the

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<v Speaker 1>North Island. Witnesses said a man and another person, possibly

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<v Speaker 1>a child, had left the scene on a quad bike.

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<v Speaker 1>Police said they made a guess or they figured out

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<v Speaker 1>which road the pair were going to be driving down.

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<v Speaker 1>They laid down road spikes which stopped the quad bike.

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<v Speaker 1>Phillips then got off the quad bike and opened fire

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<v Speaker 1>with a high powered rifle, shooting one officer in the

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<v Speaker 1>head before other police fatally shot him and he died

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<v Speaker 1>at the scene. The police officer is in hospital in

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<v Speaker 1>a critical condition, and the person with Phillips was one

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<v Speaker 1>of his children who's now been taken into custody.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, okay, So why don't we talk through the response

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<v Speaker 2>from police, because I think, as you're pointing out, that's

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<v Speaker 2>quite limited information that we really know about, yeah, where

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<v Speaker 2>he's been for the last three years or so, but

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<v Speaker 2>also even which of his three children were with him,

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<v Speaker 2>So what do we know from police.

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<v Speaker 1>At a media conference following that confrontation, Acting Deputy Commissioner

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<v Speaker 1>Jill Rogers said the incident was quote the outcome that

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<v Speaker 1>nobody wanted. The children's mother, who is known as Cat

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<v Speaker 1>in local media, said, while she is quote saddened by

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<v Speaker 1>how the events unfolded, she is relieved that it's come

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<v Speaker 1>to an end, and late yesterday afternoon, New Zealand Police

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<v Speaker 1>held a short press conference to announce that they had

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<v Speaker 1>actually found the other two children, with only about an

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<v Speaker 1>hour of daylight left for search teams, so it was

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<v Speaker 1>really right under the wire. Deputy Commissioner Rogers said her

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<v Speaker 1>team quote felt great relief in discovering the kids. As

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<v Speaker 1>you can imagine, temperatures were set to drop to freezing

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<v Speaker 1>that night. I mean, I imagine they've experienced that before in

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<v Speaker 1>the years that they've been in the wild, but still

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<v Speaker 1>want to spare the kids another night. She said the

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<v Speaker 1>children had been found at a campsite and that they

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<v Speaker 1>were well and uninjured, but will be getting medical checks.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucy, I think a lot of people listening would be

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about some of the parallels with the current situation

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<v Speaker 2>in Victoria where Victorian and police are still searching for

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<v Speaker 2>Desi Freeman, who allegedly killed two police officers on a

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<v Speaker 2>rural property a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, it is

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<v Speaker 2>interesting how there's some really strong parallels here in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of these major searches in bushland with people very experienced

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<v Speaker 2>at outdoor survival skills. Yeah, and as we've seen in

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<v Speaker 2>New Zealand, that could go on for years.

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<v Speaker 1>It could, It absolutely could. There's interesting parallels with there's

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<v Speaker 1>also interesting differences. New Zealand police don't believe Tom Phillips

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<v Speaker 1>had any kind of ideological motivation for going on the

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<v Speaker 1>run or for an acting violence that we know of,

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<v Speaker 1>although of course now he's dead, so we won't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>ever know what his true motivations were. We can only speculate,

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<v Speaker 1>but yes, it certainly shows that you can keep hiding

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time if you have the means too.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for that, Lucy, a really interesting story from across

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<v Speaker 2>the Ditch, and thank you for joining us on the

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<v Speaker 2>Daily os today. We'll be back in the afternoon those headlines.

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<v Speaker 2>Until then, have a wonderful day. My name is Lily

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<v Speaker 2>Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from

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<v Speaker 2>Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is

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<v Speaker 2>recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays

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<v Speaker 2>respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations.

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<v Speaker 2>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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<v Speaker 2>both past and present.