1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: the DALYI os oh, now it makes sense. Good morning 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Daily ODS. It's Tuesday, the ninth 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: of September. 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Sam Gozlowski. 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: New Zealand police have shot and killed a man who 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: had been on the run with his three young children 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: for almost four years. Tom Phillips disappeared in December twenty 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: twenty one with his kids, then aged eight, six and five, 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: leaving their mother and his family behind. In today's episode, 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: we'll explain what we know about how Phillips and his 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: children stayed hidden for so long and his final fatal 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: collision with police. But first a quick word from our sponsor. 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: So Lucy. As you mentioned at the top, this story 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: has been ongoing since late twenty twenty one, and we've 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: covered it before here at TDA. When Tom Phillips and 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: his children were spotted last year, I think we did 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: a video on it. 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:05,639 Speaker 3: Yes. 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: For those who aren't familiar, though, take us right back 21 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: to the beginning a couple of years ago where this 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: story started. 23 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: So this actually really starts in September twenty twenty one. 24 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: That's when Tom Phillips and his three kids, named Jada, Maverick, 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: and Ember first disappeared together. At the time, the kids 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: were aged eight, six and five, so pretty little kids. Yeah. 27 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: They were missing for seventeen days in New Zealand's Waikato region, 28 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: which is on the west coast of the North Island. 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: Tom's ute was found on a remote beach more than 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: an hour from the nearest petrol station, and it was 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: like on the beach, like physically on the sand below 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: the tideline facing the waves. The group was gone so 33 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: long that searchers were actually called off, and the family 34 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: told media at the time they were considering the worst 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: case scenario. They thought there was a strong possibility that 36 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: all of them had been actually washed out to see 37 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: but then all of them showed up again, completely unharmed. 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: So Tom and all three kids they walked into the 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: family farmhouse owned by Tom's parents seventeen days after they had. 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: Disappeared, and that must have been quite a shock to 41 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: the family. It was a national news story. Were there 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: any repercussions for Tom based on the fact that the 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: family had gone missing for almost three weeks and then 44 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: just turned up again. 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So in terms of like physically, everyone was totally fine. 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: Apparently Tom had a lot of experience in living in 47 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: the bush and that he'd also taken some food with them. 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: In terms of legal repercussions, he was charged with wasting 49 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: police resources in relation to the search and told to 50 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: appear in court the following January. And then it's hard 51 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: to pin down exactly the timeline of events, partly because 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: some information hasn't been made public to the media. But 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: we know that at some point in the ensuing month, 54 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: Tom didn't have legal custody of his children anymore. But 55 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: just to beically, I have to be vague. There's only 56 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: so much that we can say, but just that by 57 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: December twenty twenty one, he didn't have legal custody of 58 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: his children. And then it was that month, December twenty 59 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: twenty one, that he and his kids disappeared for the 60 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: second time. 61 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 2: Right, so, he was due to face court on those 62 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 2: charges about wasting police resources. He didn't show up for 63 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: the court date, and that was that second disappearance. Is 64 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 2: that the disappearance that we've been talking about until today. 65 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: Yes, So on the ninth of December twenty twenty one, 66 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 1: Tom and his kids left the family farmhouse and disappeared 67 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: into the Western Waikato region. A week later, there was 68 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: a Facebook post that began circulating saying that the kids 69 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: were missing again and the family wanted them back police 70 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: at that time, so December twenty twenty one, they actually 71 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: said they weren't concerned because they are now just two 72 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: months out or three months out from a previous disappearance 73 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: where everyone was totally fine, and they now know that 74 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: this guy has experience living in the bush. And they 75 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: said at the time that he hadn't broken any court 76 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: restrictions and that he told his family where he was going. 77 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: But then when he didn't show up to the court 78 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: appearance which was scheduled for January twenty twenty two, they 79 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: issue and arrest warrant and then the family reported the 80 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: kids and Phillips missing in mid January twenty twenty two, 81 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: and they've been basically missing until now. 82 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: Wow, that's three and a half years of being reported missing. 83 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: But we knew though that Tom and his children were 84 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: still alive all of this time, because, as I mentioned earlier, 85 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: there was this sighting of them last year that we covered. 86 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: What can you tell me about that sighting? 87 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So TDA followers may remember the footage that we 88 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: saw was from a video put together by our journalist 89 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: Atola Rock. That citing in particular was special because it 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: was the first time that Tom and all three kids 91 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: were seen together. So it was in October twenty four 92 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: and the kids and Tom were seen by pig hunters 93 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: in the region who initially didn't recognize them. They started 94 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: filming them because they thought they were poachers and they 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: wanted legal repercussions. They told media at the time. They 96 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: remembered that Tom Phillips was holding a gun, that he 97 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: was silent, they said. They told the kids that they 98 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: were on private property. They asked, does anyone know you're 99 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: on this private property? The eldest kid said no, just 100 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: you guys, right. 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: So they actually spoke to the family, yes, just very briefly. 102 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: The confirmed sighting led to a three day search in 103 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: the area that didn't turn anything up. So I mentioned 104 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: that sighting was special because that was all of them 105 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: together for the first time, But that wasn't the only 106 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: sighting that we have from the last couple of years. 107 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: Interesting, so there were other sightings in that three year period. 108 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm relying here on a timeline from the 109 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: New Zealand publication stuff, so they've noted a number of 110 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: possible sightings over the years. Police believe Phillips was the 111 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: perpetrator of a number of armed robberies, successful or attempted, 112 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: all in and around the Waikato region. Sometimes he had 113 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: one of the kids with him, sometimes not. In June 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, police actually posted an eighty thousand dollars 115 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: reward as well as potential criminal immunity if anyone who 116 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: had been helping him came forward. No one came forward 117 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: that we know of, Like, I don't think this reward 118 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: was ever handed out, Like people gave information, but nothing 119 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: that was enough to trigger that. And then so then 120 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: after that then we have the spotting, like the sighting 121 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: by the people who thought they were poaches. And then 122 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: it was around then that we started to get like 123 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of more media coverage of this. 124 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: So that month October twenty twenty four, police shared a 125 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: lot of information that hadn't previously been public. So they 126 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: said they believed Tom had taken his kids as part 127 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: of a custody dispute which had come after the seventeen 128 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: day disappearance. They told the New Zealand Herald that officially speaking, 129 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: the New Zealand Government Child Protection Agency had custody of 130 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: the children, although they weren't around, so it was sort 131 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: of just in law. And they also said they were 132 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: aware of the fact that there were people helping him 133 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: stay hidden who were not cooperating with police. 134 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: So I think there's a few aspects to this story here. 135 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: I mean, one clearly is the child protection aspect. But 136 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: then there was this spate of robberies which I could 137 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: only assume were for food and materials and that kind 138 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: of thing. Yeah, so there were crimes being committed as well, 139 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: and so this kind of bubbled along for a couple 140 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: of years. Were there any other developments in this case though, 141 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: that led up to this recent confrontation in major development? 142 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Actually two weeks ago, two or three weeks ago, 143 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: Tom Phillips's sister, Rossie, gave an interview to New Zealand 144 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: journalist Patty Gower and she read a letter from their mother, 145 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: her and Tom's mother, the kid's grandmother. 146 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: Tom, I feel really said that you thought you had 147 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: to do this, not considering how much we love you 148 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 3: and can support you. Jada Merrick and Nimba I love 149 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: you so much and really must being part of your lives. 150 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: Every day I wake up and hope that today will 151 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: be the day that you will come home. 152 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: So this was only a couple of weeks ago. This 153 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: was on the nineteenth of August. I don't think it's likely, however, 154 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: that Tom actually saw this, given that we believe he's 155 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: been basically in the bush all this time, and also 156 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: given the reason why we're talking about this story now, 157 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: which is that he has had this confrontation with police 158 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: that's led to his death. 159 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: So talk to me about that confrontation. It was a 160 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: big news story here in Australia when we woke up 161 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 2: yesterday morning, right yes, So. 162 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: At around two thirty am on Monday, police responded to 163 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: reports of a break in at a shop in the 164 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: royal town of Poor Pio in the northwest of the 165 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: North Island. Witnesses said a man and another person, possibly 166 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: a child, had left the scene on a quad bike. 167 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: Police said they made a guess or they figured out 168 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: which road the pair were going to be driving down. 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: They laid down road spikes which stopped the quad bike. 170 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: Phillips then got off the quad bike and opened fire 171 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: with a high powered rifle, shooting one officer in the 172 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: head before other police fatally shot him and he died 173 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: at the scene. The police officer is in hospital in 174 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: a critical condition, and the person with Phillips was one 175 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: of his children who's now been taken into custody. 176 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 2: Wow, okay, So why don't we talk through the response 177 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: from police, because I think, as you're pointing out, that's 178 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: quite limited information that we really know about, yeah, where 179 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: he's been for the last three years or so, but 180 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: also even which of his three children were with him, 181 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: So what do we know from police. 182 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: At a media conference following that confrontation, Acting Deputy Commissioner 183 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: Jill Rogers said the incident was quote the outcome that 184 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: nobody wanted. The children's mother, who is known as Cat 185 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: in local media, said, while she is quote saddened by 186 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: how the events unfolded, she is relieved that it's come 187 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: to an end, and late yesterday afternoon, New Zealand Police 188 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: held a short press conference to announce that they had 189 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: actually found the other two children, with only about an 190 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: hour of daylight left for search teams, so it was 191 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: really right under the wire. Deputy Commissioner Rogers said her 192 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: team quote felt great relief in discovering the kids. As 193 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: you can imagine, temperatures were set to drop to freezing 194 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: that night. I mean, I imagine they've experienced that before in 195 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: the years that they've been in the wild, but still 196 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: want to spare the kids another night. She said the 197 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: children had been found at a campsite and that they 198 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: were well and uninjured, but will be getting medical checks. 199 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 2: Lucy, I think a lot of people listening would be 200 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: thinking about some of the parallels with the current situation 201 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: in Victoria where Victorian and police are still searching for 202 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: Desi Freeman, who allegedly killed two police officers on a 203 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: rural property a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, it is 204 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: interesting how there's some really strong parallels here in terms 205 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: of these major searches in bushland with people very experienced 206 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: at outdoor survival skills. Yeah, and as we've seen in 207 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 2: New Zealand, that could go on for years. 208 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: It could, It absolutely could. There's interesting parallels with there's 209 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: also interesting differences. New Zealand police don't believe Tom Phillips 210 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: had any kind of ideological motivation for going on the 211 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: run or for an acting violence that we know of, 212 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: although of course now he's dead, so we won't necessarily 213 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: ever know what his true motivations were. We can only speculate, 214 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: but yes, it certainly shows that you can keep hiding 215 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: for a long time if you have the means too. 216 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for that, Lucy, a really interesting story from across 217 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,599 Speaker 2: the Ditch, and thank you for joining us on the 218 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: Daily os today. We'll be back in the afternoon those headlines. 219 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: Until then, have a wonderful day. My name is Lily 220 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from 221 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 2: Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is 222 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 2: recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays 223 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. 224 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 225 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: both past and present.