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Speaker 1: Data continues to point to our young women, our girls,

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Speaker 1: our daughters struggling when it comes to mental health. Brand

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Speaker 1: new research from the UK puts a bright red line

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Speaker 1: under this continuing trend by asking girls what they think

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Speaker 1: is going on and the answers are concerning. Hello and

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Speaker 1: welcome to a Doctor's Desk episode of the Happy Families

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Speaker 1: podcast Real Parenting Solutions Every Day. This is Australia's most

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Speaker 1: downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie.

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Speaker 1: Brand new data that's just been released from the University

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Speaker 1: of Manchester. They did a study asking teen girls directly

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Speaker 1: about the causes of the rising anxiety and the low

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Speaker 1: mood that we're seeing in our young women. And I

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Speaker 1: mean I talk about this in my book Misconnection. They

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Speaker 1: raised several key issues. We're going to talk about four

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Speaker 1: of them. Narrow gender expectations, intense academic pressure, peer comparison

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Speaker 1: and conflict, and social media pressures. But our girls are

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Speaker 1: struggling from a mental health point of view.

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Speaker 2: Girls are seeing these mental health issues as normal, right,

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Speaker 2: It's just normal part of life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they are.

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Speaker 2: Should we be worried that poor mental health is actually

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Speaker 2: being normalized?

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Speaker 1: Ye? Completely. And this is a tricky one because we're

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Speaker 1: parents of teenage girls, and we have conversations consistently with

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Speaker 1: our children about what will help them to overcome their

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Speaker 1: anxieties or their low mood or whatever it is. We'll say,

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Speaker 1: being outside, being a nature, being with friends, moving your body,

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Speaker 1: getting enough sleep, minimizing a screen time. Like we have

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Speaker 1: these conversations with our own daughters, and how much do

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Speaker 1: they listen to us?

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Speaker 2: Like, well, based on that, how many times we have

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Speaker 2: to have the conversation over and over again? I sometimes wonder.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's genuinely hard work. And as a parent,

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Speaker 1: you can be the very best, most well intentioned parent,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you still just don't make any progress on

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Speaker 1: this stuff. So, yes, girls, as this is normal, and

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Speaker 1: yes we should be worried because poor mental health should

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Speaker 1: not be normal. It should be the exception. Unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: data is pointing the other way. Let's talk about these

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Speaker 1: four issues, starting with narrow gender expectations.

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Speaker 2: Here's what a few of the girls said. Makeup and

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Speaker 2: shaving has become so normalized it's no longer a choice.

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Speaker 2: It's just expected. If you're girly, you're made fun of

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Speaker 2: for being too girly, but if you're a tomboy, you're

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Speaker 2: also made fun of too. No matter what, you're always judged.

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Speaker 1: Parenting solutions that I want to share here. The first

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Speaker 1: thing that I want to emphasize is that what these

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Speaker 1: UK girls are saying is precisely what girls told me

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Speaker 1: when I interviewed them for my book Misconnection. These quotes

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Speaker 1: are you could almost have lifted them straight out of

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Speaker 1: my book and just put them into the study. The

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Speaker 1: teenage girls in Australia are saying the same things as

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Speaker 1: the girls in the UK. In terms of narrow gender expectations.

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Speaker 1: I think that actually plays out for both boys and girls,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, like if a boy steps out

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Speaker 1: of that man box, steps away from the boy code,

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Speaker 1: the other boys police that. In fact, they police it

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Speaker 1: even more than the girls. Nevertheless, this is a pot

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Speaker 1: about girls. So what I would say is, when your

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Speaker 1: daughter tells you that she's interested in something, just support

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Speaker 1: her in it. It's really that simple. And if she's

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Speaker 1: not interested in much, give her exposure to all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things. One of the things that I love that

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Speaker 1: we're doing with our year ten daughter is that she's

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Speaker 1: going to this industry school where she's getting exposure to

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Speaker 1: things that both boys and girls are interested in, and

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Speaker 1: she's making up her own mind. And it's delightful to

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Speaker 1: watch that happening. The narrow confines of gender expectations are

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Speaker 1: certainly not working in anybody's favor, either our young boys

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Speaker 1: or our young girls.

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Speaker 2: I think we've come a long way. Oh we have

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Speaker 2: compared to where I was in high school.

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Speaker 1: You know we have, and we haven't. But go on.

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Speaker 2: I was the top student in my would work and

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Speaker 2: metal work class. Oh yeah, and also in my graphics class.

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Speaker 2: But at that stage there was no one in my

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Speaker 2: corner except for my teacher. He begged me to keep

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Speaker 2: on with it, right, There was no one else in

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Speaker 2: my corner suggesting that this was something that I could

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Speaker 2: do as a girl and actually use it, utilize it

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Speaker 2: in my life. And I look back now and I

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Speaker 2: so wish that I had have done it. Number one

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Speaker 2: I had a passion for and I loved it. And

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Speaker 2: number two, as we've gone through all of the years

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Speaker 2: together as a married.

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Speaker 1: Couple, oh, you could have saved us so much Funny, not.

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Speaker 2: Only could I have saved us so much money, but

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Speaker 2: I would have found so much fulfillment in my life

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Speaker 2: as I did.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we should build a shed and get you a

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Speaker 1: lathe or whatever they call those things. How good with it?

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Speaker 1: Now you've raised two things there that we're getting off

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Speaker 1: where I wanted to go. But I think there's real value.

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Speaker 1: First of all, those subjects are barely available in most

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Speaker 1: high schools anymore, would working home economics? What was the

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Speaker 1: other one? You said, metalwork? Like, they just don't do

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Speaker 1: that anymore. And we wonder why boys are so disinterested

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Speaker 1: in school. So for every ten girls who graduate high school,

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Speaker 1: only eight boys do. For every ten girls that go

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Speaker 1: to university, only seven do. For every ten girls that

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Speaker 1: graduate with an education degree at university, only five or

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Speaker 1: six boys.

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Speaker 2: Do, Which is so curious to me when you think

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Speaker 2: about education norms and the fact that still today in

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Speaker 2: so many societies, girl's education is not prioritized. And yet

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Speaker 2: here the data is telling us that not only a

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Speaker 2: girl's doing better.

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Speaker 1: Oh they're wiping the floor, but they.

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Speaker 2: Are obliterating education norms, especially against the boys, which leads

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Speaker 2: into the second issue, and that is intense academic pressure.

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Speaker 1: The girls were really worried about that, and they said,

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Speaker 1: this is feeding the mood disorders and the anxiety that

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Speaker 1: they're experiencing.

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Speaker 2: They said, if a boy fails, it's really not that bad,

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Speaker 2: but if a girl does, it means a lot more.

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Speaker 2: I push back on this a little bit. Right again,

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Speaker 2: when you think about social norms, girls not doing so

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Speaker 2: well at school has never really been a big deal.

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Speaker 2: So is this actually a perception is or is this reality?

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Speaker 1: It's a bit of both. And I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: There's this thing that there's a gender based variation gap.

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Speaker 1: Girls just don't vary as much as boys do. So

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Speaker 1: when you look at high performers and low performers, boys

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Speaker 1: are overrepresented in both groups. So you kind of got

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Speaker 1: to bimodal distribution. With boys. You get a handful of

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Speaker 1: boys that do extremely well.

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Speaker 2: And we put them in the geeky basket because they

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Speaker 2: are like.

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Speaker 1: Or the alpha academics, what do you want to call them.

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Speaker 1: But then you also get those other boys who are

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Speaker 1: completely disengaged and they're falling through the cracks and they're

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Speaker 1: boisterous and they're disruptive and they get expelled on that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, and the girls all kind of cluster

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Speaker 1: in the middle, whereas the boys are on the two extremes, right,

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Speaker 1: there's also a lot of boys in the middle, but

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Speaker 1: the boys get a lot more attention because of that

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Speaker 1: gender based variability.

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Speaker 2: I feel my perception is that there's actually a lower

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Speaker 2: expectation of boys in general.

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Speaker 1: There is that as well, and I've had quite a

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Speaker 1: lot of research points too. When boys don't do well,

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents will shrug and say, oh, boys

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Speaker 1: will be boys, or he'll figure himself out. But we

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Speaker 1: put a lot of pressure on our girls and our

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Speaker 1: daughters to achieve. The expectation is that they will sit still,

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Speaker 1: pay attention and get good grades, and they feel that.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that that quote from that girl,

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Speaker 1: if a boy fails, it's not that bad, but if

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Speaker 1: a girl doesn't means a lot more. I think that's

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Speaker 1: where she's coming from.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the pressure another statement in STEM classes, if you're

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Speaker 2: getting the worst results, you feel like you're letting down

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Speaker 2: other women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because the girl power narrative is still so strong

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Speaker 1: in terms of what we can do as parents in

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Speaker 1: terms of the academic pressure, I would save this number one.

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Speaker 1: Share your own failures, let them know. Number two. I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge believer in gap years. I really believe that

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Speaker 1: about eighty percent of kids that go straight from high

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Speaker 1: school to university should not have done that. They need

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Speaker 1: to grow up, they need to develop, mature and have

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Speaker 1: a sense of what it is that they want to learn.

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Speaker 1: And just by emphasizing those couple of things and encouraging

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Speaker 1: our children to enjoy school rather than think that it

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Speaker 1: is a place that they have to get through with

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Speaker 1: the highest possible atar, then we're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to reduce that academic pressure.

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Speaker 2: It's that's really good to introduce your kids to people

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Speaker 2: of all different walks of life, but specifically people who

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Speaker 2: haven't succeeded from the beginning. You know, when you think

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Speaker 2: about your story, for instance, and how you were in

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Speaker 2: literally the bottom fifteen percent of the state and to

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Speaker 2: be where you are now, it's a powerful reminder to

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Speaker 2: them that it doesn't actually matter where you are right now,

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Speaker 2: it's your trajectory and where you want to go.

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Speaker 1: Love that.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's also really important for us to

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Speaker 2: help them create some protective time around relaxation and sleep.

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Speaker 1: Sleep.

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Speaker 2: Our kids don't get enough sleep.

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Speaker 1: Time in nature, time with friends. By encouraging them to

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Speaker 1: live a full and balanced life, literally, they will do

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Speaker 1: better at school. Anyway, but they will feel less pressure

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Speaker 1: as a result after the break. Our two other issues

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Speaker 1: that are driving low mood and anxiety disorders in our girls,

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Speaker 1: according to them on the Happy Families podcast, all right, Kylie.

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Speaker 1: Our third issue peer comparison and conflict. We've got kids

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Speaker 1: that are worried about girls that are worried about narrow

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Speaker 1: gender expectations and intense academic pressure. But their friends, their friends,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, constantly a source of a challenge, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and disruption for young women, young girls.

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Speaker 2: Here's what the girls said. They said it became a

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Speaker 2: competition to see if you could eat the least at lunch.

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Speaker 2: This is astounding. So it was a whole table of

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Speaker 2: girls all with tiny little plates of salad. And then

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Speaker 2: if you didn't join in with that, you felt like

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Speaker 2: you were being judged because you were sat there eating

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Speaker 2: pasta or something and someone was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: that's so much corps. You're going to get fat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Direct quote.

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Speaker 2: When girls are mean, it's less direct, So you feel

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Speaker 2: a bit crazy.

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Speaker 1: When I wrote Misconnection, I know I keep referring to

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Speaker 1: the book, but again, these quotes feel like they've come

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Speaker 1: straight from my book. And when I wrote the book,

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Speaker 1: girls were constantly saying that they questioned the loyalty of

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Speaker 1: their friends. They questioned the judginess of their friends ongoingly.

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Speaker 1: This is an enduring issue. So as a parent, if

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Speaker 1: I want to reduce my child's challenges around anxiety and

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Speaker 1: depression and mood and well being, I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: be encouraging authentic friendships. Your children don't need lots of friends.

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Speaker 1: They just need one or two friends who say, hey,

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Speaker 1: so good to see it comes sit with us. They

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Speaker 1: need somebody who gives them a call on the weekend

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Speaker 1: and says, hey, let's get together or let's have a sleepover,

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Speaker 1: or let's go for that run or that ride or

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Speaker 1: that walk or whatever. They just need someone in their

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Speaker 1: life who is there for them. And they need a

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Speaker 1: significant adult in their life to have those regular check

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Speaker 1: ins and make them feel safe and listen to and

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Speaker 1: seen and heard and valued. Those kinds of things will

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Speaker 1: provide their stabilizing influence when it comes to relationships. The

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Speaker 1: last issue was social media. Precious.

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Speaker 2: The girls said, you see these people with perfect lives

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Speaker 2: and perfect houses and perfect face.

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Speaker 1: So I got to stop you with that one, because

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Speaker 1: that's almost a direct quote again from my board, and

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Speaker 1: something that stood out to me is just this sense

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Speaker 1: that I really can perfect my life. The myth of

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Speaker 1: the perfectible life is as strong, if not stronger, than

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Speaker 1: it has ever been, and that comes out in these quotes.

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Speaker 2: Another one, the increasing connectedness is great, but it's also

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Speaker 2: really bad because you can compare yourself to everyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, competition, comparison being enough. That's what social media drives.

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Speaker 1: The people that meta know it, and they feed off

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Speaker 1: it because they know that they get greater levels of

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Speaker 1: engagement and addiction from our kids. The solutions have effective

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Speaker 1: screen boundaries with your kids, model healthy tech usage yourself

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: I think also having conversations with your children, specifically about

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Speaker 2: how they feel when they're yesting great this kind of stuff,

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Speaker 2: you know, whether it's something as simple as giving them

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Speaker 2: a plate of fruit and getting them to eat that

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Speaker 2: and ask them how they feel, and then give them,

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Speaker 2: you know, a.

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Speaker 1: Whole packet of wam wheels.

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Speaker 2: Of anything right, you know, processed half an hour later

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Speaker 2: and ask them how they feel about that. Like having

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Speaker 2: something visual and tangible like that to help them recognize

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Speaker 2: and understand the difference.

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Speaker 1: That's a great Saturday activity.

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Speaker 2: I really like that, yeah, And then as they're viewing content,

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Speaker 2: is the content that they're viewing elevating them, lifting them,

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Speaker 2: making them feel peaceful? Or is there anxiety around this

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Speaker 2: because I can't be enough?

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Speaker 1: All right? So on this podcast, where about real paarenting

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Speaker 1: solutions every day? I feel like we've given several, So

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Speaker 1: let me recap what they are. First off, if your

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Speaker 1: child is feeling constricted because of narrow gender expectations, encourage

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Speaker 1: her to follow her authentic interests and go blaze her

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Speaker 1: own path. If your child is struggling with intense academic pressure,

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Speaker 1: reduce the expectations by encouraging a whole and full and

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Speaker 1: balanced and rich life. Lots of sleep, lots of friends,

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Speaker 1: lots of physical activity. You are not your atar, and

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Speaker 1: also encourage your gap year. It may not work for everybody,

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Speaker 1: but I think that it will work for many people. Third,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the peer comparison stuff, foster one brilliant

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Speaker 1: relationship for your daughter if you can, and the social

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Speaker 1: media stuff Kylie tech boundaries, tech boundaries, tech boundaries that

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Speaker 1: I think, based on the girl's own words, would be

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Speaker 1: a healthy list of solutions to help with mental health challenges.

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Speaker 2: And if I could add just one little thing. Love

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Speaker 2: it when you do spend time around the dinner table together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, togetherness, belonging.

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Speaker 2: If you want to protect your child, time together is

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Speaker 2: just so imperative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, make it work, antidope, to make it worth her while.

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Speaker 1: We will link to the study in the show notes

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Speaker 1: so that you can check out what the girls are saying.

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Speaker 1: If this is your thing, you might also like to

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Speaker 1: grab a copy of Misconnection, Why your teenage daughter Hates You,

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Speaker 1: expects the world and needs to talk by me yours truly,

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Speaker 1: Justin Coulson. It's available wherever you buy your books. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like more information and more resources, like I said,

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Speaker 1: we'll link to them in the show notes and grab

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Speaker 1: a copy of Misconnection. It will make your family happier

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Speaker 1: if you're raising teenage girls. More details at happyfamilies dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au