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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty seventh of January. I'm Sam and I'm Zara.

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Speaker 2: As you might know, I have spent the last couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks here down in Melbourne at the Australian Open,

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Speaker 2: and we've had an interesting role as part of the

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Speaker 2: Australian Open infrastructure, and that's to provide some journalism and

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Speaker 2: to provide some insights into pride and diversity at the tournament.

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Speaker 2: What that actually has involved is speaking to some big

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Speaker 2: names across tennis, across politics and across society as to

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Speaker 2: the place of these conversations in sport.

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Speaker 3: The power dynamic is pretty risky.

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Speaker 2: The progress that's been made.

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Speaker 4: I've never felt anything but value.

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Speaker 2: But also the problems that need fixing.

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Speaker 5: I still think there's a lot of issues.

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Speaker 3: Sport is both at the forefront of positive change and

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Speaker 3: also the showcase of the worst parts of our community.

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Speaker 2: On today's podcast, I want to share some of what

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Speaker 2: I've learned from those conversations. But first hour, let's get

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Speaker 2: the news out of the way. What's making headlines.

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Speaker 6: Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi has said he's received quote enormous

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Speaker 6: feedback from community organizations about the proposed Voice to Parliament,

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Speaker 6: which is expected to go to a referendum later this year.

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Speaker 6: Opposition Leader Peter Dunnan has continued to put pressure on

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Speaker 6: Alberanzi to release further detail on the voice, saying that

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Speaker 6: Australians are unsure what the Prime Minister is talking about.

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Speaker 2: The Australian Open will come to an end this weekend

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Speaker 2: with the finals of the Grand Slam. The winner of

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Speaker 2: the men's and women's singles will each take almost three

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Speaker 2: million dollars home in winnings, with the runners up to

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Speaker 2: pocket one point six million dollars. That's not bad for

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Speaker 2: coming second.

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Speaker 6: Netflix is planning to begin it's crackdown on password sharing

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Speaker 6: by March. The company will move to a paid sharing

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Speaker 6: option in the first quarter of this year for those

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Speaker 6: who still want to share their account with someone outside

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Speaker 6: their household.

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Speaker 2: And your Friday good news. US skier Mikayla Schiffrin has

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Speaker 2: claimed her eighty fourth Women's World Cup wins, cementing her

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Speaker 2: place as the most successful female alpine skier in history.

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Speaker 2: Chiffrin now only needs two more World Cup wins to

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Speaker 2: match the record of Sweden's Ingomar Stenmark, who holds the

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Speaker 2: record of most career titles among both men and women's competition.

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Speaker 6: And I will just add there that she has only

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Speaker 6: twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: So if you come in the Australian Open walk past

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Speaker 2: rod Laver Arena up the stairs, you'll see the Daily

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Speaker 2: OZ Pride Hub And what that is is a physical

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Speaker 2: structure that we've used over the last couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: to engage people, both fans, tennis players, politicians, a whole

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Speaker 2: range of people in a meaningful conversation about pride issues

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Speaker 2: and gender representation in sport. It was really great to

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Speaker 2: be asked by Tennis Australia to be involved with this

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Speaker 2: project and we were paid for it, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's really important for everybody to know listening to this.

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Speaker 2: But we haven't been paid for this podcast, and this

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Speaker 2: is a chance for me to reflect on some of

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Speaker 2: the lessons that I've learned.

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Speaker 6: Sam, having now spent the better part of two weeks

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Speaker 6: conducting these interviews day and day out, what's your key takeaway?

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Speaker 2: I think overall, there's a clear effort within tennis, especially

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Speaker 2: at this Grand Slam, to ensure that pride, conversations and

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Speaker 2: diversity and inclusion is top of mind, not only for players,

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Speaker 2: but for fans, for event organizers, vampires, for medical staff,

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Speaker 2: and the teams that are around the players. And I

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Speaker 2: think all of that is leading sport in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: But despite all the positive things that we talked about

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Speaker 2: over the last two weeks, it's clear that there are

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Speaker 2: still some serious issues that exist within the sport, and

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Speaker 2: it sounds like within Australian sport more generally. And I

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Speaker 2: think the thing that struck me this week is that

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Speaker 2: there's no out male tennis player on the circuit. We've

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Speaker 2: had a couple of players who have come out after

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Speaker 2: they've retired, but we haven't had somebody engage in male

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Speaker 2: tennis and be open about their sexuality, and that, to

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Speaker 2: me is the real prohibitive factor in progress in the sport.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I had a fantastic chat with Casey de Laqua,

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Speaker 2: who is a very highly acclaimed women's tennis player, and

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Speaker 2: she's out, and she came out as a player.

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Speaker 4: I came out when I was ready to come out

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Speaker 4: in a sport that I felt very comfortable in with

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Speaker 4: everyone involved. So that doesn't mean to say it was

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Speaker 4: probably easy, but I do think that you just have

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Speaker 4: that decision for yourself.

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Speaker 2: What's your take on the presence of LGBT discussions in

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Speaker 2: sport in Australia in general. Is tennis got more to

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Speaker 2: do in terms of being at the top or do

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Speaker 2: you feel like tennis is leading the way.

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Speaker 4: I think tennis leads the way in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: I love it, But I think.

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Speaker 4: That's just I'm just fortunate that I guess from lived experience, right,

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Speaker 4: So I've had that I'm talking about Tennessee here. Sure,

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Speaker 4: I've had lived experience of being around leadership teams and

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Speaker 4: people within organizations that have really given me every opportunity

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Speaker 4: based on who I am and not because of it.

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Speaker 4: I've never felt anything but valued because of who I

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Speaker 4: am and what I do, not because of my sexuality.

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Speaker 2: How do we get the male side of the tournament

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Speaker 2: to be more open about these discussions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there only needs to be one right

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Speaker 4: where they set that example and be that role model,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I think, you know, hopefully where getting

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Speaker 4: to a place where they might feel comfortable to do so,

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Speaker 4: we just obviously haven't seen that yet. On the men's side.

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Speaker 4: I think other sports we've seen some great examples. So

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Speaker 4: I know for myself there's definitely value in knowing that

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Speaker 4: someone's done it before you, whether it be Billy Jinking

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Speaker 4: or you know, for me, those type of women that

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Speaker 4: had come out, So I think definitely having that role

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Speaker 4: model to look out too. Mats, that's why you do it, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: that's why I wanted to do it, was so that

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Speaker 4: if there's someone else out there that felt like they

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Speaker 4: just wanted to be themselves or be who they were,

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Speaker 4: that they had someone to look up to who had

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Speaker 4: done it.

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Speaker 6: We'll be back right after this. One of the chats

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Speaker 6: that we were both excited for, actually it was with

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Speaker 6: Kate Jenkins, who is of course the Sex Discrimination Commissioner

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Speaker 6: here in Australia. You might remember her because the Jenkins

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Speaker 6: Report was the report that looked at sexual harassment in Parliament.

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Speaker 6: But she was talking to you about pride here and

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Speaker 6: about the progress or lack thereof in this space, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And when I did a bit of digging, she's

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Speaker 2: somebody who's written a lot about discrimination in sport. She

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Speaker 2: presided over an inquiry into trans inclusion in sport in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. This year coming up, she's the ambassador for

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Speaker 2: the Women's World Cup here in Australia. She's also done

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Speaker 2: in a report into sexual harassment and assault within gymnastics Australia.

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Speaker 2: So she's got a really wide ranging lens through which

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Speaker 2: to look at these issues. And her key message was

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Speaker 2: that sport is a human right.

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Speaker 3: There's only one or two people who can win the

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Speaker 3: Australian Open but actually, as a community, all of us

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Speaker 3: have physical and mental health needs and the United Nations

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Speaker 3: recognizes that access to sport should be something that's available

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Speaker 3: for everyone. And we know as a community we're better

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Speaker 3: if everyone is able to access sport. So the reason

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Speaker 3: I've really got involved, you know, when we're in Australia,

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Speaker 3: is that if you want to advance human rights, you

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Speaker 3: go to where people are, and sport is where people

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Speaker 3: are both participants but also parents and spectators. We've all

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Speaker 3: kind of got some sort of connection with sport. And

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Speaker 3: so if you want to change Australia, you know, you

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Speaker 3: change sport and you've pretty much changed the country.

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Speaker 2: And in some ways sport is often the precursor to

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Speaker 2: more social change. I mean, as well we first see

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Speaker 2: you incredible representation of First Nations issues and athletes and voices.

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Speaker 2: It can often be on the sporting field before politics.

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Speaker 2: Do you find that that is happening with pride as well?

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Speaker 3: So I think sport is both at the forefront of

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Speaker 3: positive change and also the showcase of really the worst

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Speaker 3: parts of our community. And I think particularly racism has

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Speaker 3: had a big conversation both about what we can do

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Speaker 3: positively but what we're not doing well in terms of pride.

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Speaker 3: I was a Victorian Human Rights Commissioner before I was

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Speaker 3: a Sex Discrimination Commissioner. When I was in Victoria, I

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Speaker 3: was involved with launching the first globally, the first transgender guidelines,

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Speaker 3: and I think you probably know that the Human Rights

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Speaker 3: Commission in twenty nineteen launched our National Guidelines on Inclusion

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Speaker 3: of transgender people in Sport, and those guardelines we really

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Speaker 3: just say, you know what there are laws about at

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Speaker 3: those highly competitive top end, and how we've got great

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Speaker 3: laws on strength, stamina and physique that allow for the fairness,

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Speaker 3: but in practice most people are not at that level.

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Speaker 3: Most people just want to play footy or soccer or

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Speaker 3: tennis or whatever they want to play, and clubs can

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Speaker 3: do better.

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Speaker 6: So one of the things that we discussed after every

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Speaker 6: single one of your interviews is this big question that

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Speaker 6: you're asking all of them, all of the interviewees, and

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Speaker 6: it is should there be a pride hub in fifty

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Speaker 6: years time? And I think some of the responses to

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Speaker 6: this have been really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm talking to people who are quite good at

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Speaker 2: media and they do a lot of these types of interviews,

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Speaker 2: but this is the question that I have been asking

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Speaker 2: right at the ends that seems to stump them a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I mean I even asked Craig Tiley, and

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Speaker 2: he's the CEO of Tennis Australia fifty years time AO

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Speaker 2: twenty seventy three, should there be a pride Hub? No,

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Speaker 2: tell me about that.

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Speaker 5: Because hopefully there's no prejudice in people's minds and or

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Speaker 5: in people's behaviors. And I think I'd be disappointed if

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Speaker 5: if fifty is a long time, so I'd say even sooner.

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Speaker 5: I just pointed if we weren't kind of in that,

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Speaker 5: in that frame of mind and that and that and that.

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Speaker 2: Action on one side, people say that there shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: a Pride Hub and an event like this in fifty

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Speaker 2: years time, because that's a sign that we're still needing

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Speaker 2: to draw attention to the issue and it's not just

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Speaker 2: part of normal sport and normal society. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's a really valid point in that, you know, we're

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Speaker 2: drawing a lot of focus and attention onto this physically.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've got a beautiful structure and we've got

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Speaker 2: pride activities throughout the tournament, and that's because there's a problem,

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Speaker 2: and it's a problem that we as a sporting community

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Speaker 2: and as Australia are trying to fix. On the other

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Speaker 2: side of the equation. Another theme that came through was

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Speaker 2: just how much joy the Pride Hub and Pride activities

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Speaker 2: brings people at the tournament. This is what Casey de

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Speaker 2: Laqua had to say.

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Speaker 4: I think if we don't see it, I think that

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Speaker 4: will be a positive thing, right, because really, why do

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Speaker 4: we do this work so that we just it's not

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Speaker 4: almost an issue in a way. It's we all are.

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Speaker 4: But then like seeing you know, some of the entertainment

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Speaker 4: and the fun that comes along with having like a

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Speaker 4: Pride hub. I think it's pretty cool and fun and exciting,

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Speaker 4: and we've always got to make sure that we keep

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Speaker 4: that uptake of these type of things so that we

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Speaker 4: make our sport accessible to all.

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Speaker 6: It has been a big couple of weeks for you, Sam,

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Speaker 6: but very important conversations have been had and I think

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Speaker 6: oftentimes people say that politics needs to get out of sport,

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Speaker 6: but I personally believe that that is impossible, and so

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Speaker 6: it's good to be having those big conversations in the

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Speaker 6: context of the great game of tennis. So thank you

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Speaker 6: and thanks for joining us today. If you learn something

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Speaker 6: from Sam's analysis of the Australian Open, send it to

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Speaker 6: a friend. We'll be back in your ears on Monday.

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Speaker 6: Have a great weekend.

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Speaker 5: M